When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[dori727]

ok the thing that makes me mad is that some ppl in this thread say "lisa is sad" "lisa still loved him" " lisa could have saved his life" "she left coz his use of drugs"
how could you know that?
ok I know that every one has there own opinion
but were is mjs side of the story? you cant have an opinion based on one side of the story
look Im not saying that she is not telling the truth but come one ppl mj is not here to defend himself or say anything about the subject clearly it was something he wanted privet and you talking about it will not change anything that has happened
who knows maybe if they stayed together the trail wouldn't happened but something more horrible could we just don't know
I just dont like it when some here say that he was wrong and he did this and that
that is very disrespectful to him you don't know him and you don't know what happened

i have been guilty of saying that she is sad, and that she still loved him. But i DONT think she left him cause of drugs, and if she did then that is a small factor. And i don't know whether or not she could have saved him. But i do know that when Michael was with her he was his happiest. We saw this in performance's, interviews etc he was extremely playful. And we all know Michael was depressed. If he would have had a partner there be or be not Lisa marie would have made all the difference in the world. Whether or not Lisa was right for Michael, it made him happy. and idk if the trial would have or not happened, but atleast he would have had some one there talking to him and helping him. Katherine herself has stated that Lisa saved Michael in 1993. Who knows what could have happened. and even if they wouldn't have stayed together for what ever reason, they could have ended on good terms. all of this is based in my opinions.

and again, i'm not saying Lisa, but if michael had a partner PERIOD. who he loved and she loved him back, i personally think michael would have had a better outcome.

 

[dori727]

oh and i believe all this ^^^^^ because Michael himself said in the glenda conversation's that what he longed for was to have a serious relationship with someone. to be loved and to love back etc. So yea, Lisa changed Michael entirely, which is why i think if he would have had that love (not neccesarily lisa, but a love that strong) then yes, maybe he'd be alive today. Or maybe during the gavin thing he would have been to preoccupied with a wife, a relationship to concentrate on the Arvizo family. And yes, we will never know because it's too late now. But like Lisa, we have nothing else to do but to think how things could have been different if Michael would have stayed with Lisa. after all, michael had a hard time with trust and he trusted lisa entirely. i personally think she could have made a difference.

 

[xXMJJXx]

oh and i believe all this ^^^^^ because Michael himself said in the glenda conversation's that what he longed for was to have a serious relationship with someone. to be loved and to love back etc. So yea, Lisa changed Michael entirely, which is why i think if he would have had that love (not neccesarily lisa, but a love that strong) then yes, maybe he'd be alive today. Or maybe during the gavin thing he would have been to preoccupied with a wife, a relationship to concentrate on the Arvizo family. And yes, we will never know because it's too late now. But like Lisa, we have nothing else to do but to think how things could have been different if Michael would have stayed with Lisa. after all, michael had a hard time with trust and he trusted lisa entirely. i personally think she could have made a difference.

ok yes you are right and Im not saying your guilty of anything I wasn't even talking about you I was talking about the ppl that are saying that lisa was like the "victim" and it was all Micheal he is the one that f*cked up and that really makes me made coz they don't know anything all they know of is Lisa's side of the story and it takes two ppl to work on a relationship that is all I mean please don't get me wrong

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

But i do know that when Michael was with her he was his happiest. We saw this in performance's, interviews etc he was extremely playful.

and again, i'm not saying Lisa, but if michael had a partner PERIOD. who he loved and she loved him back, i personally think michael would have
had a better outcome.

:yes:

 

[dori727]

ok yes you are right and Im not saying your guilty of anything I wasn't even talking about you I was talking about the ppl that are saying that lisa was like the "victim" and it was all Micheal he is the one that f*cked up and that really makes me made coz they don't know anything all they know of is Lisa's side of the story and it takes two ppl to work on a relationship that is all I mean please don't get me wrong

lol i didn't take it wrong at all. and i know you weren't talking about me (i hope lol) but i had to defend that point. And again, i didn't take it wrong, i took it as a discussion, everyone has their own point of views and that's why we are here. To discuss what we think and feel =) and i agree, it takes two to tangle. And i believe its both Michael's and Lisa;s fault, and that there are other things that happened that we dont know about. This i have to agree with u

 

[MJ*PP]

Personally I think the last time they spoke was a really long time ago. He had his life, and she had hers, and she was pregnant too so if they spoke what would they've spoken about while she's pregnant? That would be pretty akward, lol. All I got to say is that they're the cutest couple I've probably seen.

 

[dori727]

Personally I think the last time they spoke was a really long time ago. He had his life, and she had hers, and she was pregnant too so if they spoke what would they've spoken about while she's pregnant? That would be pretty akward, lol. All I got to say is that they're the cutest couple I've probably seen.

actually thats exactly what happened! lol she called him when she was pregnant. Who knows what she was thinking? maybe she got pregnant and it reminded her of michael, and how he wanted kids, and probably how those kids could have been his and hers. So she called him to see what had happened between them

and yes, they were ADORABLE together. I love it when they were on diane sawyer...hate the interview, but love their connection.

 

[VanX]

ok the thing that makes me mad is that some ppl in this thread say "lisa is sad" "lisa still loved him" " lisa could have saved his life" "she left coz his use of drugs"
how could you know that?

Well, it's all speculation. And it's all we can do at this point. We never did know and now we most likely never will know, so we say what we say based on personal opinion and feeling. Thats all. Take it with a grain of salt

Lisa has a lyric in one of her song 'The Road Between' that goes:

"I changed my furniture to make you go away. I'm still overwhelmed at how much space you take."

Interesting, thanks!

 

[VanX]

and yes, they were ADORABLE together. I love it when they were on diane sawyer...hate the interview, but love their connection.

That's super interesting, because I find it showed a lack of their connection! It showed how opposite they were in a lot of ways. I found it awkward.

 

[mosaic]

That's super interesting, because I find it showed a lack of their connection! It showed how opposite they were in a lot of ways. I found it awkward.

Same here. I felt like Lisa was irritated with and embarrassed by Michael during certain parts of that interview.

 

[JaneBender]

It was a little awkward, but it seemed at though instead of being able to show their love for one another, they spent much of the time defending themselves... their marriage, the allegations, his tour promo, EVERYTHING. I think Mike was just going with the flow, but LMP spent much of the time on the defensive.. you could tell she was trying to clear his name, trying to get ppl to see that their marriage was REAL, but it came off as just being very defensive. Honestly tho I don't blame her. I mean she KNEW what ppl thought.. that it was a sham, that he was trying to save his image, that they didn't have sex, bla bla bla. She probably got tired of it. Where as it seemed Mike was used to the bullshit lies and rumors.

He was very playful tho, which I think annoyed her a little during the interview. She was clearly a no nonsense kinda woman, I'm sure there were times where his playfulness probably got on her nerves when she was trying to be serious with him. I'm sure that mighta worked when they were in private, but during the interview? The bunny ears behind her? Cute to us because we know his personality, but probably not so cute to her when she was trying to paint this normal life, you know? "normal" for regular folks isn't bunny ears during a serious interview.

Not that I am saying he wasn't normal, but we all know Mike kinda lived in almost a different world than we did...

 

[dori727]

It was a little awkward, but it seemed at though instead of being able to show their love for one another, they spent much of the time defending themselves... their marriage, the allegations, his tour promo, EVERYTHING. I think Mike was just going with the flow, but LMP spent much of the time on the defensive.. you could tell she was trying to clear his name, trying to get ppl to see that their marriage was REAL, but it came off as just being very defensive. Honestly tho I don't blame her. I mean she KNEW what ppl thought.. that it was a sham, that he was trying to save his image, that they didn't have sex, bla bla bla. She probably got tired of it. Where as it seemed Mike was used to the bullshit lies and rumors.

He was very playful tho, which I think annoyed her a little during the interview. She was clearly a no nonsense kinda woman, I'm sure there were times where his playfulness probably got on her nerves when she was trying to be serious with him. I'm sure that mighta worked when they were in private, but during the interview? The bunny ears behind her? Cute to us because we know his personality, but probably not so cute to her when she was trying to paint this normal life, you know? "normal" for regular folks isn't bunny ears during a serious interview.

Not that I am saying he wasn't normal, but we all know Mike kinda lived in almost a different world than we did...

all this is true. But there was a moment in where he sings to her and self consciously she grabs his hand and starts playing with it. Because it was self conscious it made it cute. lol tiny things like that made me think they were adorable together and THAT is where i saw the connection. But i do agree that she was annoyed, but i don't think she was annoyed at michael, i think she was annoyed at diane and the entire thing. One of those things were your so annoyed that everything around you annoys you. and there was a part though when diane asked michael about looking neither like a women, men, black nor white and michael was like wtf? and he stayed quiet for a few seconds. During this LMP looked like she was about to bitch slap diane and rip her freaking ears out.LMP even responded with "he has every right!" and i liked how she had an automatic reaction to defend him, it shows she truly did care. And i just think Lisa wasn't use to people treating her like this or the bad talking and michael is use to this. but again, i did see some connection in the interview

 

[elmari]

I don't know how Diane Sawyer got so lucky to get MJ/LM's first interview as a married couple. Also, MJ's first interview after the 1993 allegations.

She treated Michael and Lisa horribly, IMO. She asked the questions that her network wanted her to ask, but with no class and no respect for them.

IMO, Michael and Lisa should have just interviewed themselves! LOL! Then had a camera follow them for a day. Like "A day in the life of Michael and Lisa Marie". That would have been fabulous and they would not have to have dealt with that nasty Diane Sawyer.

With the way that Lisa and Michael acted during the interview, I bet they are usually very playful with one another and Michael just continued that during the interview. In his rare TV interviews, Michael is usually very reserved and guarded, IMO. I think Lisa was very nervous about what impression they were going to make as a married couple. I think Lisa was trying to be very serious and Michael was trying to be more relaxed. That's where we see the differences, IMO.

But I do remember gasping when Michael made the bunny ears on Lisa. . . LOL! She looked like she was going to pounce on him after he did that to her!

 

[dori727]

oh and just wondering. How come in interviews he was never asked about lisa or the you are not alone video? I mean, seriously that was something very important he should have been asked about in interviews unless he requested not to have it asked. But there was an interview he did with MTV in 1995, and they show the you are not alone video, and never once was Lisa brought up. Thinks like that that lea

 

[Shamonee]

actually thats exactly what happened! lol she called him when she was pregnant. Who knows what she was thinking? maybe she got pregnant and it reminded her of michael, and how he wanted kids, and probably how those kids could have been his and hers. So she called him to see what had happened between them

How do you know this; do you have a reliable source?

oh and just wondering. How come in interviews he was never asked about lisa or the you are not alone video? I mean, seriously that was something very important he should have been asked about in interviews unless he requested not to have it asked. But there was an interview he did with MTV in 1995, and they show the you are not alone video, and never once was Lisa brought up. Thinks like that that lea

This is EXACTLY what I was wondering which was why I made [url=http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75513[/COLOR]]this thread the other day[/url]. I was looking forward to Michael discussing his marriage to Lisa on LWMJ but that never happend =\

 

[dori727]

How do you know this; do you have a reliable source?






This is EXACTLY what I was wondering which was why I made [url=http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75513[/COLOR]]this thread the other day[/url]. I was looking forward to Michael discussing his marriage to Lisa on LWMJ but that never happend =\

i dont remember the source but i read it in more than a few places in where it was stated.

lol yea! its as if for interviewers Lisa never existed!

 

[dori727]

but i think also, Lisa said once that they had an agreement not to talk about each other in interviews, even after the divorce. But that Michael said once on tv guide that Lisa told him that elvis got a nose job, and that she said all deals were off. but i still don't know how all his videos were asked about except that one. and it was actually a very popular video

 

[CTU]

This is Lisa's kids hanging on to MJ in Africa:
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/history/va...7/misc/009.jpg
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/history/va...7/misc/010.jpg


I wonder when did they broke up? I think the did break up in 1999, somewhere right after that fight of the TV Guide Interview. According to my first assumption that the interview was in 1999 (TV GUIDE) that Michael said about Elvis done his nose. I don't believe that it's the nose thing that they break up, but they might not in good term and this other fight keeps coming up. Lisa gave out interview in 2003 that she had a fight with him about MJ said sth about her dad's nose.... She said that she was so mad and threw the magazine across the kitchen. Then the question was "you pulled the plug", and she said yes. They were lying that they separated, but a few years later she kind of forgot the timing and gave out that information.

There's no bouncing back after 1999, only a few phone calls they made in 2006 - according to someone which I coudn't find the article about this too. I read from some forum that she called him and wanted to talk, ended up that she did the talk while he didn't say much. Poor her, then now there's no more chance to talk. I"m pretty sure that MJ died on her without a real good conversation, otherwise, she wouldn't be this sad in her blog. They never said a proper goodbye, and never set things straight between them.

I wonder what's the reason they broke up in 1999? Something that made her mad and walk away... The song "Don't walk away", I also think it's for Lisa.... Lisa even said it herself in one of the interview "it's something I walked away from years ago". Exactly same word "walk away". I think the reason she said bad thing about him because she was mad, something made her believe that he kind of used her and didn't love her as much... even they spent 6 years together. That must hurt so bad, one thing I know.. she's very consistent on all the info she gave during her interviews... same word same story everytime. A bit confusing when she said something bad about him.. but still insist that their love was real at the time (she just the word "at the time" very often), and sometimes also denied to answer the question which would mean giving out his personal information.

She also said in her interview that he lived at her house when they were married, whenever he's in town which was the first 6-7 months of their marriage before he start working on his album.

I guess you seen this, his funeral program, as someone mentioned here earlier... that there was Lisa's photo in here. They put it there and definitely will tell his children that she was the one that your dad loved very much. They are old enough to know this and definitely asked about that picture.

 

[Shamonee]

^ Yeah I think a majority of the ballads on Invincible were written about her.

"The Road Between" from Lisa's album (to whom it may concern) sounds like it's written about Michael:

Out on the road between nowhere and hell
I caught a glimpse of my reflection in you
But they can't believe I still want you around
Hung on the line between addiction and this
I can't believe you said I hurt you again
But I can't afford to let you get away
And I cannot take the darkness when you stay

You're all I see. And it's definitely my fault
You're all I see. But don't come near me at all

How many roads between your world and mine
How many broken doors and how many fights
I changed my furniture to make you go away
I'm still overwhelmed at how much space you take

You're all I see. And it's definitely my fault
You're all I see. But don't come near me at all

And I can't have you right now
And I can't get it right now
And I can't have you right now
And I can't get it right now

What do you guys think? Has anyone actually given her 03 album a listen? I personally find her singing voice unbearable lol.

 

[dori727]

This is Lisa's kids hanging on to MJ in Africa:
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/history/va...7/misc/009.jpg
http://mjjgallery.free.fr/history/va...7/misc/010.jpg


I wonder when did they broke up? I think the did break up in 1999, somewhere right after that fight of the TV Guide Interview. According to my first assumption that the interview was in 1999 (TV GUIDE) that Michael said about Elvis done his nose. I don't believe that it's the nose thing that they break up, but they might not in good term and this other fight keeps coming up. Lisa gave out interview in 2003 that she had a fight with him about MJ said sth about her dad's nose.... She said that she was so mad and threw the magazine across the kitchen. Then the question was "you pulled the plug", and she said yes. They were lying that they separated, but a few years later she kind of forgot the timing and gave out that information.

There's no bouncing back after 1999, only a few phone calls they made in 2006 - according to someone which I coudn't find the article about this too. I read from some forum that she called him and wanted to talk, ended up that she did the talk while he didn't say much. Poor her, then now there's no more chance to talk. I"m pretty sure that MJ died on her without a real good conversation, otherwise, she wouldn't be this sad in her blog. They never said a proper goodbye, and never set things straight between them.

I wonder what's the reason they broke up in 1999? Something that made her mad and walk away... The song "Don't walk away", I also think it's for Lisa.... Lisa even said it herself in one of the interview "it's something I walked away from years ago". Exactly same word "walk away". I think the reason she said bad thing about him because she was mad, something made her believe that he kind of used her and didn't love her as much... even they spent 6 years together. That must hurt so bad, one thing I know.. she's very consistent on all the info she gave during her interviews... same word same story everytime. A bit confusing when she said something bad about him.. but still insist that their love was real at the time (she just the word "at the time" very often), and sometimes also denied to answer the question which would mean giving out his personal information.

She also said in her interview that he lived at her house when they were married, whenever he's in town which was the first 6-7 months of their marriage before he start working on his album.

I guess you seen this, his funeral program, as someone mentioned here earlier... that there was Lisa's photo in here. They put it there and definitely will tell his children that she was the one that your dad loved very much. They are old enough to know this and definitely asked about that picture.

Firstly, lol the link to the picture isn't working...atleast not for me.

and yes, i agree with EVERYTHING you have said. They definitely broke up around 1999, and if they were together it could explain his divorce from Debbie rowe. The fight must have been something huge because it seemed like these two were pretty close to reconcile. You know, with her traveling across the world, and him saying she is the one etc. Maybe there was hope of a re-marriage, like to do it the right way. idk. and i do believe they never said a proper goodbye, judging from her reaction at the funeral. It is really sad though, knowing that now she has to live with that for the rest of her life. A million wonders are probably going through her head. And no mater what she is always going to blame herself and think what she could have done differently. They should definitely make a movie solo based on their love life jk jk lol

And yes, i do conquer that the song "Don't walk away" is about Lisa. Mj, although would probably deny it, has heard Lisa's songs. There is no way, knowing how curious Michael is of the musical world and stuff, that there is no way he didn't hear her music. And the same goes for lisa who admitted once that she was trying to keep up with michael. These two had an on going song response thing going on.

And yes indeed they did live together. Neverland ranch, as someone said earlier, was more like a vacation for Michael. Or it was were Michael spent it when he wasn't touring. but when he was recording he was always in LA, and that would take months, and he was at Lisa's house.

Also, Michael's kids have to know who Lisa was. Maybe not as an ex-wife, but i'm sure they knew of her existence. Lisa said once that she had met prince, and michael said once in another interview that they were friends and that Lisa would visit the kids (meaning more than just prince lol). And yea, i was wondering about the program from the funeral too. Lisa was on one of the first pictures, there is no way the kids didn't see or question this. Also, Michael had a picture of Lisa by his bed side when prince was already born. If he kept that picture there for the rest of his life there is no way the kids wouldn't ask about it.

Also, we know Michael recorded alot of his private life and had them as home videos. For example: the video of him and emmanuel lewis dancing, the footages from his private home videos, the video of prince and paris singing as toddlers, the water ballon fights at neverland in where janet jackson was included etc. Michael MUST have recorded something with Lisa in it. Like me and Lisa on the ferris wheel lol or a video in where there is a water balloon fight and Lisa's kids are involved. Things like that. And if these videos exist paris or prince probably would have stumbled across it or something and also would have asked questions. michael did say once that his kids ask A LOT of questions.

 

[dori727]

^ Yeah I think a majority of the ballads on Invincible were written about her.

"The Road Between" from Lisa's album (to whom it may concern) sounds like it's written about Michael:

Out on the road between nowhere and hell
I caught a glimpse of my reflection in you
But they can't believe I still want you around
Hung on the line between addiction and this
I can't believe you said I hurt you again
But I can't afford to let you get away
And I cannot take the darkness when you stay

You're all I see. And it's definitely my fault
You're all I see. But don't come near me at all

How many roads between your world and mine
How many broken doors and how many fights
I changed my furniture to make you go away
I'm still overwhelmed at how much space you take

You're all I see. And it's definitely my fault
You're all I see. But don't come near me at all

And I can't have you right now
And I can't get it right now
And I can't have you right now
And I can't get it right now

What do you guys think? Has anyone actually given her 03 album a listen? I personally find her singing voice unbearable lol.

lmao i too think almost all the songs on invincible are about Lisa and his kids. And on Lisa's, most of them seem to be about Michael.

and lol yes, i've heard her sing. Its ok, nothing impressive, there is nothing there that really catches my attention.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

Thank you, I feel sorry for Michael.... I don't know if Karen F is reliable or not but she has said before the funeral she didn't have anything good to say about LMP. She added that LMP hurt MJ badly and he was very tortured by that relationship. Granted she said she only had MJ's side of the story naturally but that says alot to me.....
I guess my problem with LMP is not LMP herself but why some people seem to hold her up so high.

And as far as her interveiws from DS to rolling stone to playboy... A simple no comment would have sufficed. Alll the excuses are just that....
She's not stupid, She didn't pull that mess with Nic Cage.
And some of the things were hurtful to Michael. I watched her on LK say how him getting arrested was good for her since it takes the heat off of her.... I was like :bugeyed
Or when in Australia, she said she has saw things, right in the middle of the investigation??? come on
LM likes to play like she all badass but all those interviews tell me she's not.

thank you.. that's all i am saying. i understand we are all human. we make mistakes. i don't hate her, judge her (i don't think i do)... but I am going to have an opinion about it. my opinion can be way or base or not it is mine.
marriages fail and succeed based on the respect, love, compatibility, ...so on from both parties. i believe they both had they play in its demise.
but no one is going to convince me otherwise that the series of interviews she gave was supportive or helpful to michael. therefore i would have a negative view of her.

i don't hate her. i don't think their marriage was a sham.

so every time i watch DS interview i want to reach through the screen and slap Diane first,..... MICHAEL JACKSON?? ??? ??? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
whatever!
lastly, here is an excerpt of the interview below. it was too long so the few statements that really bothered me i put in this thread. but you can read the who interview yourself.

what does ..... at the time mean? 1993 extortion- "it was very convincing and i believed him at the time??????

nuff said.

http://lisamarie.at.infoseek.co.jp/lisa-DianeSawyer2003.htm

Diane Sawyer: By the time Lisa Marie Presley married Michael Jackson, Jackson reportedly had been treated for addiction to painkillers. He was also under siege. He had been investigated for child molestation with a 12-year-old boy. Jackson settled a civil suit with the family reportedly for millions of dollars and his camp implied he was the victim of extortion.

Lisa Marie Presley: Um, let me, let me now ... I've been trying to go through this. I haven't thought much about this, what I was going to say and I just figured it would fly out of my mouth. Okay, first of all, he was very quick to ... the first time I met him, sit me down and go, "Listen, I'm not gay. I know you think this, I know you think that", and he started cursing and started, you know, being a normal person. And I was like, "Wow!" So I get caught up in that I'm pulled in right away. Like, "Wow, you're so misunderstood. Oh my God, you're this guy." I fell into this whole, "You poor, sweet misunderstood thing, I'm going to save you." I fell into that. I fell in love with him, I did.


Lisa Marie Presley: Yes, I fell in love at the time. Now ...

Diane Sawyer: Sexual attraction?

Lisa Marie Presley: I told you everything I said was the truth.

Diane Sawyer: Sexual attraction?

Lisa Marie Presley: At the time. Yeah.

Lisa Marie Presley: I was already friends with him, there was already some romantic stuff going on a little bit before that happened. So it was like, I was already like, you know, I was the only one he would be calling so I felt all privileged and, you know, that he was trusting me and telling me what happened and it was very convincing and I believed him, at the time.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

ok the thing that makes me mad is that some ppl in this thread say "lisa is sad" "lisa still loved him" " lisa could have saved his life" "she left coz his use of drugs"
how could you know that?
ok I know that every one has there own opinion
but were is mjs side of the story? you cant have an opinion based on one side of the story
look Im not saying that she is not telling the truth but come one ppl mj is not here to defend himself or say anything about the subject clearly it was something he wanted privet and you talking about it will not change anything that has happened
who knows maybe if they stayed together the trail wouldn't happened but something more horrible could we just don't know
I just dont like it when some here say that he was wrong and he did this and that
that is very disrespectful to him you don't know him and you don't know what happened

:clapping::clapping:
you took the words right out of my mouth.

totally agree.

but i also like hearing the tibits and the other point of view or speculation that members like dori- is saying.
i disagree but we can disagree. its ok. so long as we are discussing and sharing our opinions respectfully.

but i totally agree with you. i feel like.....
and i am going to share my view. i try to do it in a respectful way.

i try to remind myself (sometimes very hard) that the TIES the BIND US on this board is our love for michael.

hahah- thanks for sharing . just glad i am not alone.

 

[VanX]

^@mjjfan4ever - Yeah, it really aggravates me that Lisa had to get all defensive in interviews and couldn't just shoot down the interviewer by saying 'Yes, I loved him' and leave it at that. For a woman who gives off such a strong vibe, she sure caved when those questions were asked. It's like she said what Diane wanted to hear rather than what she really felt.

People saying they broke up in '99... how could Lisa continue a relationship with him when he was married and raising kids with someone else? Again, for such a 'strong woman', that's pretty cowardly. Why would she not put her foot down and make Michael choose at that point?

I have respect for Lisa and would never say anything hurtful about her personally as I don't know her. Just sharing an opinion.

 

[xXMJJXx]

sorry a little off topic here but could someone give a link to mjs interview with TV GUIDE? I never seen it before

 

[dori727]

:clapping::clapping:
you took the words right out of my mouth.

totally agree.

but i also like hearing the tibits and the other point of view or speculation that members like dori- is saying.
i disagree but we can disagree. its ok. so long as we are discussing and sharing our opinions respectfully.

but i totally agree with you. i feel like.....
and i am going to share my view. i try to do it in a respectful way.

i try to remind myself (sometimes very hard) that the TIES the BIND US on this board is our love for michael.

hahah- thanks for sharing . just glad i am not alone.

lol yes, as long as we share our views in a respectful way then i guess we can continue discussing in a proper non-childlike manner =).

and yes again, lol i do believe they BOTH had fault in the the break up, because it does take two to tangle. and also, i believe personally that neither one reallly REALLY tried to fix the problem (being how they are both prideful and hardheaded). And yes, Michael was hurt and tortured, but then again supposedly so was Lisa and that's why she wanted out. According to everything i've read about her she became almost obsessed with Michael after the divorce, and spent two years depress after 1999. And well, again, we don't know what exactly happened in 1999 that made these two not even want to look at each other. lol and obviously Karen faye doesn't like Lisa because its the women that got to michael. For example: i have a cousin who was in deep big time with this girl who eventually became his girlfriend. She never cheated on him or anything of that type, but the relationship did end badly and all he did for months was mope around. The family hated seeing my cousin like this, and so put alot of the blame on her and hated her too. And i'm friends with her too, so i got to see both sides. And she was mopping around to, and her mom hated my cousin also. The same thing happened with Karen, she saw Michael hurt, and depress and hated seeing Michael like that. So therefore, hated Lisa. And the same goes for Pricilla Presley, who saw Lisa obsess over Michael, and saw her depress, and who has witnessed Lisa's failure in marriage's. She blames Michael for Lisa's relationship problems.

i would like to add that everything i say is based on my opinion lol

and not to defend Lisa or anything, but i think the reason why she gave unstable interviews like dian sawyer and oprah etc is because she herself wasn't sure whether or not Michael used her. And also, like someone said earlier, she was extremly hurt and wanted to hurt him back and get to him (since michael is impossible to contact)

and again, i blame the press, and everyone who was around them for the failure in their marriage. Similar to when the 3 T's said in a interview that EVERYONE kept saying it wasn't going to last and stuff. No one ever said, "oh this might work out". It was negatively seen since the beginning, giving the relationship bad vibes and basically dooming it from the start. I bet you if those two would have isolated themselves from EVERYONE, the way Michael did with his kids then those two could have definitely worked things out.

 

[VanX]

and again, i blame the press, and everyone who was around them for the failure in their marriage. I bet you if those two would have isolated themselves from EVERYONE, the way Michael did with his kids then those two could have definitely worked things out.

I don't think it had anything to do with press, they just had conflicting personalities and things they couldn't resolve that went deeper than we will ever know.
If ANYONE could handle the press, it was those two.

 

[Shamonee]

VanX - Debbie was just used as a womb. He married her cos he didn't want to have kids out of wedlock. Lisa said she was just a nurse who had a crush on him. So obviously him and Lisa could still be seeing each other upto 99.

And I think the Press are also partially at blame.

 

[dori727]

yup, the press kept saying over and over again as much as pricilla was that the marriage was fake and stuff. This obviously put doubt in Lisa's head, and Lisa isn't use to the press, at least not the negative kind that is always directed and targeted towards Michael.

 

[VanX]

VanX - Debbie was just used as a womb. He married her cos he didn't want to have kids out of wedlock. Lisa said she was just a nurse who had a crush on him. So obviously him and Lisa could still be seeing each other upto 99.

And I think the Press are also partially at blame.

I know. But simply a womb or not, he still MARRIED her. In other words, she still held the same position as Lisa once did. She still lived at Neverland. She still had regular contact with the children, still raised the kids with Michael. That's still a pretty intimate thing to share with someone. I don't see how Lisa could at all be comfortable or understanding of that. If Debbie really was JUST a womb, then she wouldn't have still been there after the kids were born. Michael really would have made that line very clear. That's my feeling.