When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[dori727]

and yes, i do believe maybe Lisa rushed too much with relationship's after Michael. And actually, i heard somewhere ( don't know if true) that Michael proposed to Lisa in November she was engaged 6 months before getting married lol And it's possible Lisa was always in and out or her other relationship's because she was trying to forget about Michael, or because maybe she was in and out of relationships with michael.

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

So you guys think Lisa just went with the interviewers when they talked that nonsense? (especially Sawyer and Howard stern) She simply told them what they desperately wanted to hear?

But what about Oprah asking her if MJ used her...and she didnt really say no at all.
I'm sorry, but i can't just forget about those weird interviews she's done.

 

[VanX]

IMO, I think Lisa did want to get back with Michael at some point. But did Michael really want to get back with her? It seems like he had chances, but then maybe something happened btw them and then the next thing you know she is engaged to another guy. I think for Michael, it was all about the sentimentality of the relationship. He wanted all the good, but none of the bad. For some reason I don't think he wanted to give it a serious second go at it, like I think Lisa had. She did say that he wasn't used to being in a relationship and that he pretty much had been a 'one man show' all his life. IDK. . . I could also be totally off. I think he looked at things much differently once the children were born, so things might have been different if they got back together.

Opinions anyone?

The 'one man show' thing is key. When you haven't had many serious relationships in your life and you're used to being single most of the time, you find it harder to play well with others. I think Michael got very used to being an independent person all his life and he learned to rely on himself very much, and it then becomes harder to allow someone else into your personal life. It becomes harder to open up and you involuntarily push people away sometimes because you're used to being alone. You don't mean to hurt the other person but you put yourself first because that's what you've always been used to. I believe that's what happened with Lisa. When they would get into arguments and he would leave for weeks at a time, he was concerned with his own feelings and doing what was best for him. Or the child thing. He was concerned with what HE wanted and perhaps didnt really try and see Lisa's perspective - that maybe she just wanted to wait a little bit longer. I don't at all think Michael is a bad person for it, its just what's bound to happen when you've been a one man show pretty much your entire life.

 

[dori727]

So you guys think Lisa just went with the interviewers when they talked that nonsense? (especially Sawyer and Howard stern) She simply told them what they desperately wanted to hear?

But what about Oprah asking her if MJ used her...and she didnt really say no at all.
I'm sorry, but i can't just forget about those weird interviews she's done.

idk about howard and diane, i think she never really said anything wrong. IMHO
But in Oprah she said what she felt. Seeing how there is a chance that she wanted to get with Michael after the divorce, and that probably michael didn't want to get back with her because of the kids does seem like to her (especially if you hve pricilla telling her constantly that she was being used) that she was being used. Like, that Michael only wanted to have kids. So she was probably hurt, leading to her lashing out. and Lisa truly in her heart felt used

Idk what really happened, lol i wasn't there. But the point is that something MAJOR happened between them in 2003 that resulted into Lisa feeling used, and made her hurt enough to the point where she began to lash out.

 

[dori727]

The 'one man show' thing is key. When you haven't had many serious relationships in your life and you're used to being single most of the time, you find it harder to play well with others. I think Michael got very used to being an independent person all his life and he learned to rely on himself very much, and it then becomes harder to allow someone else into your personal life. It becomes harder to open up and you involuntarily push people away sometimes because you're used to being alone. You don't mean to hurt the other person but you put yourself first because that's what you've always been used to. I believe that's what happened with Lisa. When they would get into arguments and he would leave for weeks at a time, he was concerned with his own feelings and doing what was best for him. Or the child thing. He was concerned with what HE wanted and perhaps didnt really try and see Lisa's perspective - that maybe she just wanted to wait a little bit longer. I don't at all think Michael is a bad person for it, its just what's bound to happen when you've been a one man show pretty much your entire life.

:hi: i forgot to add this too to my analyzes lol

 

[micaro7]

hmmm interesting...i get everything your saying. But about the kids being already born, i dont think Mj would have had a problem with lisa as a step mom or raising the kids. I mean for about 5-6 years he sort of help raised Lisa's, so why wouldn't he do the same thing back? and yea, i think the tv guide one is from 1999. And idk about the getting back together thing. What i think (imo) happened is that Lisa wanted to get back with him during 1998-1999 when they were touring and stuff, and he didn't want to right away because he had just had a kid etc. I think lisa gets fed up and leaves, which is around the time that Mj and Debbie divorced. Then i think he wanted to get with lisa after that but she was already with Nic. But i do know that when nic and her separated Michael called her to "see if she was ok". hmmm... lol This was around 2001-2002... so who says that maybe they didn't try to work things out again during this time? who knows. But something MUST have happened because 2003 hit and lisa went ALL OUT on Michael. Then when she was pregnant with the twins she calls michael. Maybe the thought of being a mother reminded her so much on how michael wanted kids. so she calls him, and from the looks of it he is still hurt or mad because he didn't talk at all. And even if now they wanted to get back it was too late cause Lisa was already having kids with someone else. Then Michael dies, and boom, Lisa is devastated. We know she cried her heart on when she wrote the blog, and we know she cried through out the funeral. Probably meaning that for the last two months she has most likely been crying her eyes, heart, and soul out. Who knows? maybe she has always wanted to tell him something, or maybe that day she called to tell him that she hasn't stopped loving him. etc. who knows now. So from my analyzes, lol the two NEVER conquered on when they wanted to be together. The only time they BOTH wanted each other was when they got married. After that, it was an on and off thing. But its crystal clear that they were both each other's one and they never got over each other. Michael was never the same, and neither was Lisa. Tragic love story if you ask me. lol

IMO they both didn't try hard enough...michael said in the interview that sometimes you have to let it go (reffering to the love of your life etc). See, but that only applies when the person leaving was never yours. Trust me, Lisa was his, he should have chased her. And the same goes for Lisa. She shouldn't have quit on him.

what do you guys think? opinions?

But that is just michael, that's not behaviour he exhibited just towards LM, He called Brooke Sheilds when her mother died, when she was going through PPD, when she had her daughter,
That is just the type of caring person MJ is.
I read that Marie Claire article where LM called MJ the biggest mistake of her life.
or the other article where she says she called in 07 or 08 to ask him what that( meaning the marriage) was all about... Her words but what stuck out to me was at the end she said it'd be another 10 years before he'd talk to her again
I think that is why she is "gutted"
what the hell did she say to MJ? whatever it was wasn't good and she knows that and she feels guilty.

 

[CTU]

A while ago I thought I believed that they had a real serious relation ship after divorce until 1999, according to his interview with LIFE and TV Guide, he mentioned Lisa a lot and openly, then something went wrong, the broke up.

Now I started to think, may be what they had after divorce was on and off, like they can't stop thinking of one another, so they meet up from time to time. As Michael is always a busy guy, many people around him... and so on. They catch up intimately from time to time... she wanted him back, he wanted her back, but it wasn't that easy.. and they might thought why they need to announce it??? It's obvious that they were seeing each other and a bit serious, why would she travel with him on his world tour, even with his mom and dad to South Africa. If it's something not that serious, you don't take your girl with your parent... and for Lisa, she took her kids with her to be with him. I know many people don't like her, but she loves her kids, am sure that she didn't want to confuse him by allowing them to be with Michael on and off throughout those years. I think they were pretty serious, but think about the world did to their first marriage, why would they want to go through that again - am sure there are many other reason that hold them back.

It was on and off until one day, Lisa might be so mad at him and want out, she want something more than just seeing him and confuse her children. Suddenly she rushed to find new love and trying to get engage right away. She was successful loving Nic and got married, obviously didn't work out as she tried. If you listen to Invincible, it's all about her. He did beg her to stay, ... don't walk away, whatever happens... and also let her go... there's also a song which he mentioned his women with other man too.. He was obviously devastated by her action at that time. I'm so sad listen to those song...

Do you think Lisa walked away, then Michael had Blanket right after? Or may be he had blanket, that's when Lisa thought that's it.. am gone? Or may be Blanket mom is someone Michael got involve with? (Anyway, please don't delete this thread, if this is something not allowed, just delete my post please).

I think Lisa really thought she could get over him if she find new love, unlucky for her that Michael isn't someone she could forget easily... until now. A real tragic love story, who knows how many phone call they made, try to get back together, real life isn't that easy.. they didn't try hard enough.. but we don't really know their circumstance of not normal people life.

Lisa definitely didn't tell the truth that she met Prince only once from her interview. As Michael mentioned in his 90s interview that Lisa visit him regularly... and play with his kids. I don't know if Prince / Paris remember Lisa, but they definitely will asked or did ask when they saw the kissing photo... I think their grandma did explain it to them earlier.. or may be they even knew about her all along. Micheal is a good dad, I'm sure he did try to explain everything to them, especially something that would make them wonder about him. He also have a lots of his own footage, he seems to love making his own life film. As you see he always have his own cameraman, I think he wish to do his own life documentary. Remember during the trial, he was on top of his car and pulled his cameraman up with him, directing him what to film. I think he has plenty of his video with Lisa...

Once again, may I say, no one could love Lisa the way Michael did, they way he treated her.. like in his song... who could match him.. no way. I really feel sorry for her, to fell for someone as amazing and as big as him - she will never feel like that ever again. She also said it herself that he's a amazing guy,,, I hope she will be okay someday and cope with her marriage - happy - different kid of happiness.

 

[dori727]

But that is just michael, that's not behaviour he exhibited just towards LM, He called Brooke Sheilds when her mother died, when she was going through PPD, when she had her daughter,
That is just the type of caring person MJ is.
I read that Marie Claire article where LM said she called MJ the biggest mistake of her life.
or the other article where she says she called in in 07 or 08 to ask him what that( meaning the marriage) was all about... Her words but what stuck out to me was at the end she said it'd be another 10 years before he'd talk to her again
I think that is why she is "gutted"
what the hell did she say to MJ? whatever it was wasn't good and she knows that and she feels guilty.

Good point. And i think she said "he was the biggest mistake in her life" because she was honestly really hurt. There has been a billion times in where i've told myself "dam i really wish i would have NEVER liked this person". or "dam what a mistake, i feel like i wasted my time". But i never really mean it or say it in a bad way. I say it out of anger. And i wonder what did she tell Michael? Remember Lisa was still hurt, and she is very impulsive. She was probably all like "so michael, did you really like me? etc" things like that. One of those "i gave you everything i had" lol but the fact that she called means that he was still on her mind YEARS later. Cause a person who is really "indifferent" wouldn't have cared enough. Or maybe they didn't say anything, maybe it was just an awkward conversation in where Lisa said how she felt and Michael stayed quiet. Michael has an opening up issue, and was guarded. He probably didn't know how to react or he didn't know how to tell her that he did love her. Idk. The whole thing is really sad for both of them. Michael never knew how Lisa really felt and vice versa. I wish someone like Janet, who is close with both parties could have locked up lisa and Michael in a room and made them talk. Even if they didn't get back together, maybe they could have worked things out. Again, the whole thing is really really sad. And i don't where i heard this, but i also heard that Michael had told people around 2001, 2002 that Lisa was the one and that he wanted to get back with her. Idk, i want Lisa to come out and clear things up...and not clear everything, cause obviously that's private, but yes say something like "in the past i've said a few things that weren't nice in regards to Michael etc" and then say something like "but all that was not true, i was mad at him at the moment etc......" something like that. And that's all, to maybe clear things up for us, but maybe it will clear things up for herself and bring her at peace

 

[dori727]

A while ago I thought I believed that they had a real serious relation ship after divorce until 1999, according to his interview with LIFE and TV Guide, he mentioned Lisa a lot and openly, then something went wrong, the broke up.

Now I started to think, may be what they had after divorce was on and off, like they can't stop thinking of one another, so they meet up from time to time. As Michael is always a busy guy, many people around him... and so on. They catch up intimately from time to time... she wanted him back, he wanted her back, but it wasn't that easy.. and they might thought why they need to announce it??? It's obvious that they were seeing each other and a bit serious, why would she travel with him on his world tour, even with his mom and dad to South Africa. If it's something not that serious, you don't take your girl with your parent... and for Lisa, she took her kids with her to be with him. I know many people don't like her, but she loves her kids, am sure that she didn't want to confuse him by allowing them to be with Michael on and off throughout those years. I think they were pretty serious, but think about the world did to their first marriage, why would they want to go through that again - am sure there are many other reason that hold them back.

It was on and off until one day, Lisa might be so mad at him and want out, she want something more than just seeing him and confuse her children. Suddenly she rushed to find new love and trying to get engage right away. She was successful loving Nic and got married, obviously didn't work out as she tried. If you listen to Invincible, it's all about her. He did beg her to stay, ... don't walk away, whatever happens... and also let her go... there's also a song which he mentioned his women with other man too.. He was obviously devastated by her action at that time. I'm so sad listen to those song...

Do you think Lisa walked away, then Michael had Blanket right after? Or may be he had blanket, that's when Lisa thought that's it.. am gone? Or may be Blanket mom is someone Michael got involve with? (Anyway, please don't delete this thread, if this is something not allowed, just delete my post please).

I think Lisa really thought she could get over him if she find new love, unlucky for her that Michael isn't someone she could forget easily... until now. A real tragic love story, who knows how many phone call they made, try to get back together, real life isn't that easy.. they didn't try hard enough.. but we don't really know their circumstance of not normal people life.

Lisa definitely didn't tell the truth that she met Prince only once from her interview. As Michael mentioned in his 90s interview that Lisa visit him regularly... and play with his kids. I don't know if Prince / Paris remember Lisa, but they definitely will asked or did ask when they saw the kissing photo... I think their grandma did explain it to them earlier.. or may be they even knew about her all along. Micheal is a good dad, I'm sure he did try to explain everything to them, especially something that would make them wonder about him. He also have a lots of his own footage, he seems to love making his own life film. As you see he always have his own cameraman, I think he wish to do his own life documentary. Remember during the trial, he was on top of his car and pulled his cameraman up with him, directing him what to film. I think he has plenty of his video with Lisa...

Once again, may I say, no one could love Lisa the way Michael did, they way he treated her.. like in his song... who could match him.. no way. I really feel sorry for her, to fell for someone as amazing and as big as him - she will never feel like that ever again. She also said it herself that he's a amazing guy,,, I hope she will be okay someday and cope with her marriage - happy - different kid of happiness.

Everything you have said sums up EVERYTHING i have said lol. if that makes any sense.

And i said the same thing about the video's and Michael always having a cameramen there. Michael has to have videos with Lisa and her kids at never land or something. Michael also said once how he loves staying home and watching home videos with the kids sometimes. Knowing this, there is a GOOD probability that Prince or Paris, being older, stumbled upon these videos and asked questions. And if Lisa visited a bunch of times when they were little then there has to be photos lying around. Also, if michael still had the picture of her in his room it would have certainly drawn questions from the kids. haha and Lisa did lie about only meeting prince. In the interview when they asked her she looked to the side and cough before actually answering the question.

And please please, mods, again, don't delete this thread for what ever reason. LOL if a rule has been broken or we have crossed the line then let us know ASAP for that poster can delete his/her post.

 

[VanX]

Idk, i want Lisa to come out and clear things up...and not clear everything, cause obviously that's private, but yes say something like "in the past i've said a few things that weren't nice in regards to Michael etc" and then say something like "but all that was not true, i was mad at him at the moment etc......" something like that. And that's all, to maybe clear things up for us, but maybe it will clear things up for herself.

I think she sorta did that in her blog after Michael's death. She didn't directly come out and say it all, but she did say she felt guilty and indirectly you can sense her regret, I think. I think that is THE most vocal she's ever been about their relationship and so I think she's unlikely to say anything else.

Dori, you've got so much to say, I like it

 

[dori727]

I think she sorta did that in her blog after Michael's death. She didn't directly come out and say it all, but she did say she felt guilty and indirectly you can sense her regret, I think. I think that is THE most vocal she's ever been about their relationship and so I think she's unlikely to say anything else.

Dori, you've got so much to say, I like it

yes, she did voice herself, but some how i feel like she should do more. Not like Jermaine, who seems to be on every channel, but yes to speak out. she can't hide forever begin Elvis' daughter and all. Eventually she is going to come out, and ofcourse reporters, as always are going to ask her about Michael. I guess until then we will have to wait.

lol Thank you! i feel very strong on this subject, lmao. And i feel really bad that it never worked out between them. It could have motivated so many songs from Michael. lol

 

[CTU]

Someone on youtube said "the picture at the burial you can se a huge diamond on her finger, it looks like the engagement ring MJ gave her"

Is it????

By the way, the last time he had her photo by his bedside was 1999 interview. There's another interview after that, it was Marilyn's photo by his bed... hahahha. May be he didn't bring her photo with him after he left Neverland. I better go read fan fiction... keep me happy... than the real fact which is so sad.

 

[dori727]

By the way, the last time he had her photo by his bedside was 1999 interview. There's another interview after that, it was Marilyn's photo by his bed... hahahha. May be he didn't bring her photo with him after he left Neverland. I better go read fan fiction... keep me happy... than the real fact which is so sad.

oh snap! it could be the ring he gave her. If it is then :sad: then that is so sad..i wonder how her now husband feels about his wife mourning for 2 months (and still mourning), and possibly wearing the ring her ex gave her. If it is the ring he gave her then that just show who she really loves and who she will always love. all, i'm about to tear up lol

 

[dori727]

ok, so i;ve searched and in the pics where Lisa is with her now husband she is not wearing a wedding ring. or atleast not a ring of that size. lol the last time i saw that was when Michael gave her one. And also, i read somewhere, but it wasn't reliable, that lisa might have been getting a divorce from her husband (this was before june 25) does anybody know? And also, ok, don't call me crazy, but Lisa's current husband resembles alot to Michael. Not physically but the length of hair, he is always wearing a hat, strong chin, first farther, desperately wanted kids, etc. lol just wanted to point this out.

 

[elmari]

Guys, please let us remember that Lisa is currently married and I don't want us to cause disrespect to her and her husband Lockwood. She also has two baby girls, so let's not get carried away with our ideas (i.e. ring, separations, etc.). I don't think that she would wear any other wedding ring other than her current husband's presently. Even though it is a romantic idea that she could have had on Michael's ring at the funeral.

On that phonecall that Lisa made to Michael when she was pregnant. . . I'd probably have acted the same as Michael. Obviously, in his view LM had moved on, married another man, and was now having that man's children. But there is two interesting things about that phone call.

First, the call in the first place. Where did we get the info that Lisa made that call to try to clear the air with Michael about their relationship? All we know is that Lisa was the one doing all the talking and didn't get anything out of it. She was still left frustrated and said that it would probably be another 10 years before she calls/talks to him again. It just sounds like the reason for the call wasn't just a 'check up on you' type of call.

Second, Michael's reaction to the call. He barely talked supposedly. That means he didn't want to talk to Lisa or just had nothing to say about what she was talking about. Which could mean he was uncomfortable, hurt, or just didn't care. So which one is it? He could be hurt because she had said so many bad things about him in public since 2003 or because she had remarried and was now pregnant. Perhaps he had just already moved on. But we all know Michael is not usually an uncaring or flippant type of person. So obviously something was holding him back and he and Lisa were not on friendly terms.

But it does say something that Lisa made the call in the first place and that Michael took it. It means to me that they both still cared what the other had to say.

It's obvious that Lisa still cared after all these years. But it's really not so clear about Michael's side and that's only because he was so private and didn't let any more details out after 2002/03. IMO, he had accepted the situation and was happy being a single father. But I definitely think that the presence of a woman (i.e. love) in his life could have led Michael down a different path.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

And some of the things were hurtful to Michael. I watched her on LK say how him getting arrested was good for her since it takes the heat off of her.... I was like :bugeyed
Or when in Australia, she said she has saw things, right in the middle of the investigation??? come on

I read that Marie Claire article where LM called MJ the biggest mistake of her life.
or the other article where she says she called in 07 or 08 to ask him what that( meaning the marriage) was all about... Her words but what stuck out to me was at the end she said it'd be another 10 years before he'd talk to her again
I think that is why she is "gutted"
what the hell did she say to MJ? whatever it was wasn't good and she knows that and she feels guilty.

Whaaat?? :no: She was full of it at the time I think. Seen things? Sure that's why you were seen with your kids all over the world with him after the divorce. :smilerolleyes: That was the anger talking, but damn...

yea.... i think the whole media/tabloids are the "spawn of lucifer"......

I don't hate too many things in life.... rarely hate or have disgust for such things... BUT THE WAY OUR PRESS / WORLD PRESS and JOURNALISTS treated MJ????

i hope they rot in hell. :agree:

not catholic. if there is purgatory .... NO purgatory for you !!! got straight to lucifer.:bugeyed sorry.... LOL.

lol you wouldn't want them to go purgatory since purgatory is a cleansing place for b/f you go to heaven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory

lol here is the link http://home.c2i.net/mjj/michael_jackson_articles_kingaspop.htm

and i agree, it tells alot that he had pictures of Lisa marie still around, it shows who he was in love with. And honestly, what he said was SO CUTE! lol the "i have that picture because thats the age she was when i met her". Dam our boy is romantic! =) if i guy told me that, "this is my favorite picture of you because that is how you looked when i met you" i'd be smitten.

Dori you are awesome!!!! :clapping:Thanks for the link!

 

[mandy543]

aww and also donald said that michael once told him in reference to lisa, "i just got to kiss the most beautiful girl in the world, i hope im worthy of her". lol that is way too cute

but enough of this, i don't want to get banned or anything for saying to much lol

LOL didn't Donald also say that they didn't leave the their room for hours?!

 

[dori727]

Guys, please let us remember that Lisa is currently married and I don't want us to cause disrespect to her and her husband Lockwood. She also has two baby girls, so let's not get carried away with our ideas (i.e. ring, separations, etc.). I don't think that she would wear any other wedding ring other than her current husband's presently. Even though it is a romantic idea that she could have had on Michael's ring at the funeral.

On that phonecall that Lisa made to Michael when she was pregnant. . . I'd probably have acted the same as Michael. Obviously, in his view LM had moved on, married another man, and was now having that man's children. But there is two interesting things about that phone call.

First, the call in the first place. Where did we get the info that Lisa made that call to try to clear the air with Michael about their relationship? All we know is that Lisa was the one doing all the talking and didn't get anything out of it. She was still left frustrated and said that it would probably be another 10 years before she calls/talks to him again. It just sounds like the reason for the call wasn't just a 'check up on you' type of call.

Second, Michael's reaction to the call. He barely talked supposedly. That means he didn't want to talk to Lisa or just had nothing to say about what she was talking about. Which could mean he was uncomfortable, hurt, or just didn't care. So which one is it? He could be hurt because she had said so many bad things about him in public since 2003 or because she had remarried and was now pregnant. Perhaps he had just already moved on. But we all know Michael is not usually an uncaring or flippant type of person. So obviously something was holding him back and he and Lisa were not on friendly terms.

But it does say something that Lisa made the call in the first place and that Michael took it. It means to me that they both still cared what the other had to say.

It's obvious that Lisa still cared after all these years. But it's really not so clear about Michael's side and that's only because he was so private and didn't let any more details out after 2002/03. IMO, he had accepted the situation and was happy being a single father. But I definitely think that the presence of a woman (i.e. love) in his life could have led Michael down a different path.

I TOTALLY agree! and i'm sorry if i got carried away with my ideas lol. But i did hear somewhere, before Michael's death that Lisa and Lockwood were getting a divorce, so who knows? And knowing Lisa, and how she is with her ex husbands, she tends to keep in contact with them. Danny still lives with her right? so maybe Lisa doesn't see anything wrong with wearing the ring Michael gave her. To her maybe its just that, a strong connection and decided to wear it that day for that occasion. Just an idea. lol

And yes, For michael to not talk during the conversation is very weird. Michael loves talking on the phone, so for him to not talk at all? makes no sense. I think he was hurt, or scared that she was going to blow up on him the way she did that day at the hospital. That day was hurt real badly, and we can see this when the doctor mentions how his heart rate is going fast etc. Maybe he was afraid of getting hurt again. But like you said, he did take the phone call, and to contact Michael is harder then to contact the president of the united states of america. So he wanted to hear what Lisa had to say. Or also, he could have felt hurt because of the theory that you mentioned. That He was hurt Lisa was having kids, twins. Thats a major blow to the heart, but at the same time he did the same thing to her by having his kids right after their divorce. But back to the twins theory, Michael, although he never admitted it, didn't read tabloids but he did read magazines. Remember, he even said once that he was hurt when he saw Lisa marie had gotten married the first time because he really thought it should have been him she was marrying. And during Lisa's pregnancy she did take alot of pictures (which lisa normally wouldn't do, she didn't do it with her previous pregnancy, could this have been to get back at michael, or to let him know she was pregnant?) which michael probably saw when he picked up a magazine, and probably did feel extremely hurt, and perhaps he honestly felt that it should have been him the father of the twins. Also, at the time of the phone call Michael had already been through alot, the allegations etc. He was already a changed man, and was more guarded and secluded. So, it wouldn't surprise me the fact that he was quiet during the entire conversation.

And i do agree, a women in his life, someone that he truly loved and corresponded that love, be Lisa or someone else would have led Michael down a better rode. Let's not forget that Michael's main dream when he was a teenager was to fall in love and to find the right person. He felt alone, and when he was with Lisa that loneliness ended and he had love. But things didn't work out and he was left alone again.Michael is a romantic, he values women and see's marriage as something holy. When he was in love, he was unstoppable! Anyone in his life, women figure, could have made a difference. the only thing that saved him and helped him live the trials in 2005 were his kids. But see, he was supporting the kids, but he had no on there really supporting him. Obviously the fans, and his family were there, but there was no one he had to run away with or talk to about his problems. The kids were to young to know what was going on, and yea he had friends, mac, tucker, Liz, etc. But it is not the same as having and knowing that someone is going to be there unconditionally, who is willing to run away with you anywhere, stand up for you. And again, someone there as a wife would have made the biggest difference in the world. idk if it would have saved him, or if he would be alive today if he had someone there. But Michael would have been a much happier person with someone in his life. He would have completed his goal, to be happily married and have his own kids.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

LOL didn't Donald also say that they didn't leave the their room for hours?!

O RLY? :naughty: Does anybody have the full interview of Donald talking about LMP & MJ?

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

On that phonecall that Lisa made to Michael when she was pregnant. . . I'd probably have acted the same as Michael. Obviously, in his view LM had moved on, married another man, and was now having that man's children. But there is two interesting things about that phone call.

First, the call in the first place. Where did we get the info that Lisa made that call to try to clear the air with Michael about their relationship? All we know is that Lisa was the one doing all the talking and didn't get anything out of it. She was still left frustrated and said that it would probably be another 10 years before she calls/talks to him again. It just sounds like the reason for the call wasn't just a 'check up on you' type of call.

Second, Michael's reaction to the call. He barely talked supposedly. That means he didn't want to talk to Lisa or just had nothing to say about what she was talking about. Which could mean he was uncomfortable, hurt, or just didn't care. So which one is it? He could be hurt because she had said so many bad things about him in public since 2003 or because she had remarried and was now pregnant. Perhaps he had just already moved on. But we all know Michael is not usually an uncaring or flippant type of person. So obviously something was holding him back and he and Lisa were not on friendly terms.

But it does say something that Lisa made the call in the first place and that Michael took it. It means to me that they both still cared what the other had to say.

It's obvious that Lisa still cared after all these years. But it's really not so clear about Michael's side and that's only because he was so private and didn't let any more details out after 2002/03. IMO, he had accepted the situation and was happy being a single father. But I definitely think that the presence of a woman (i.e. love) in his life could have led Michael down a different path.

Agreed on the last bit in bold.

Your post is very interesting. Obviously that phone call was going to be an uncomfortable one ('Hey Mike; why did we break up?) and it makes me wonder a number of things:

When did this call take place? How much contact had they had before it? (This shows IMO how comfortable were they with each other at the time.)

It could have been a call out of the blue. Because as you said LMP had married another man and was having his kids. So if you've moved on and don't care, why make the call? I agree with you; I think she definitely did care. Regarding Michael, I too think he would have definitely thought that she had moved on by then. I don't think he just didn't care. Whether or not he still cared about her romantically is another question.

If he still cared about her as a friend; its likely he was hurt by what she said in 2003.

If he still cared about her as more than just a friend; he could have been hurt by what she said in '03 and hurt that she was re-married and pregnant.

I think they weren't too close which may be why she tried to call him instead of meeting him. Could the talk have gone better if they have decided to meet face to face? Who knows?

 

[dori727]

LOL didn't Donald also say that they didn't leave the their room for hours?!

lol YES! He did say that

 

[dori727]

Agreed on the last bit in bold.

Your post is very interesting. Obviously that phone call was going to be an uncomfortable one ('Hey Mike; why did we break up?) and it makes me wonder a number of things:

When did this call take place? How much contact had they had before it? (This shows IMO how comfortable were they with each other at the time.)

It could have been a call out of the blue. Because as you said LMP had married another man and was having his kids. So if you've moved on and don't care, why make the call? I agree with you; I think she definitely did care. Regarding Michael, I too think he would have definitely thought that she had moved on by then. I don't think he just didn't care. Whether or not he still cared about her romantically is another question.

If he still cared about her as a friend; its likely he was hurt by what she said in 2003.

If he still cared about her as more than just a friend; he could have been hurt by what she said in '03 and hurt that she was re-married and pregnant.

I think they weren't too close which may be why she tried to call him instead of meeting him. Could the talk have gone better if they have decided to meet face to face? Who knows?

you bring up a good point there. The talk probably would have been better face to face. see, when someone is on the phone they can hide their expressions and how they are really feeling from the person on the other line. For example: Lets say Michael started crying when she called or got all teary eye. To her, he was just sitting there not responding. But to him, a million and one things were going through his head and he was trying to hide how he really felt. Maybe he wanted to shout, maybe a wave of emotions hit him at that precise moment. Happiness, sadness, memories, jokes, laughters, the good times, the bad times...all this probably went through him during that conversation. The same goes for Lisa, she must have been trying to guess what he was thinking lol. Maybe he was quiet remembering a touch, a kiss, maybe he was to in shock to talk, or maybe he was trying to imagine how she looked pregnant. And since it was a phone conversation, once the person finishes talking (lisa) conversation over.

But now face to face, that is a whole different mater. When your face to face with someone, and they are confronting you, you are not just going to sit there and stay quiet. You are going to respond automatically. There is more proximity, you are looking into the other person's eyes, and can clearly see all of their emotions. If they are mad, you would tell, if they are sad, you'll see it in their eyes, if they are playing with their hands and shaking, then you know they are nervous. If they would have met in a public place, then they can't really scream or yell, private place, they can yell and scream, but that is going to lead to tears and even more emotions, and probably in their case revelations on how they really feel inside (i doubt though there would be much screaming because lisa was pregnant atm). Body language says alot, and i do think that if they would have been face to face it would have worked out better.

 

[elmari]

Agreed on the last bit in bold.

Your post is very interesting. Obviously that phone call was going to be an uncomfortable one ('Hey Mike; why did we break up?) and it makes me wonder a number of things:

When did this call take place? How much contact had they had before it? (This shows IMO how comfortable were they with each other at the time.)

It could have been a call out of the blue. Because as you said LMP had married another man and was having his kids. So if you've moved on and don't care, why make the call? I agree with you; I think she definitely did care. Regarding Michael, I too think he would have definitely thought that she had moved on by then. I don't think he just didn't care. Whether or not he still cared about her romantically is another question.

If he still cared about her as a friend; its likely he was hurt by what she said in 2003.

If he still cared about her as more than just a friend; he could have been hurt by what she said in '03 and hurt that she was re-married and pregnant.

I think they weren't too close which may be why she tried to call him instead of meeting him. Could the talk have gone better if they have decided to meet face to face? Who knows?

Well, let's see. The last time they supposedly talked prior to this call was in 2003 when they called each other to see how each one was after the divorce from NC for Lisa and the Bashir interview for Michael. Supposedly, Michael invited Lisa to visit him in Neverland and she went, but he had forgotten and had left before she arrived.

Lockwood is Lisa's musical director or something like that. He worked on her albums. They got married in 2005 or 2006. Lisa is pregnant in 2008. Lisa calls Michael when she is pregnant. Hmm. . . is this the right timeline everybody? That means that they talked last year. Maybe she was not pregnant when she called him. Maybe she was just about to marry Lockwood when she called Michael if we are sticking to the call being around 2005/2006. Can anyone clarify? Actual facts could have been spun around as we've written stuff in these threads.

A face to face meeting. . . hmm, maybe. But Michael doesn't like to be confronted. So if she had done that, he probably would have just left. Perhaps why she did it on the phone. I think Lisa's goal was to re-establish their friendship or some kind of contact since she wants to be friends with her exes. People seem to do anything to hang on to Michael. I think when she lost contact w/ Michael, she might have done it through her friendships with Janet and/or Rebbie.

Oh yah, heard that Danny lives in the pool house on her property and that he and Lockwood are good friends. They are all scientologists. IDK, I wonder if Danny remarried or something. I wouldn't want to be his wife and living on his ex-wife's property. Unless, they are all one big happy family.

 

[CTU]

refer to their talk when she was pregnant, is it the truth? Was Lisa stated that from her interview?

I read somewhere that from that conversation, she done most of the talking while he didn't say much - but it didn't say that he was quite the whole time. I assumed that he talked but didn't open up like she expected him to be. I guess may be there's no point to clear the air, she's pregnant and not coming back to him anyway. Why would he open up his feeling, say anything... cry... and the result is the same, she left him and won't come back. He might thought all she wanted from that conversation was to say a final goodbye from him, and he didn't want that. If it's true that he believe that one day they will be back together, she got married and pregnant must hit him so bad. If he thought that the engagement in 1999 and another marriage in 2002 was something she did to get back to him, or may be she still didn't realise that he was the one, he kept thinking that she will be back. When she got pregnant.. it's the end of it... the real ending that she won't be back forever.

She really did ignore him during his trial? I really wonder that, everyone know that if he go to jail he wouldn't make it. I really doubt that Lisa didn't call him or try to support him somehow, or may be she was totally convinced that she didn't care at all until it really happen in June 2009.

Oh and the ring, I think it's sound great if she wore it to his funeral. She kept it with her all these years... and wanted to show him that she loves him? About her husband, I think they will survive. The expectation when you got married for the 4th time is definitely not like any other marriage, and at this age, I don't think they would act like a newly wed or a teenager anymore. They also have twins to raise.

 

[dori727]

Well, let's see. The last time they supposedly talked prior to this call was in 2003 when they called each other to see how each one was after the divorce from NC for Lisa and the Bashir interview for Michael. Supposedly, Michael invited Lisa to visit him in Neverland and she went, but he had forgotten and had left before she arrived.

Lockwood is Lisa's musical director or something like that. He worked on her albums. They got married in 2005 or 2006. Lisa is pregnant in 2008. Lisa calls Michael when she is pregnant. Hmm. . . is this the right timeline everybody? That means that they talked last year. Maybe she was not pregnant when she called him. Maybe she was just about to marry Lockwood when she called Michael if we are sticking to the call being around 2005/2006. Can anyone clarify? Actual facts could have been spun around as we've written stuff in these threads.

A face to face meeting. . . hmm, maybe. But Michael doesn't like to be confronted. So if she had done that, he probably would have just left. Perhaps why she did it on the phone. I think Lisa's goal was to re-establish their friendship or some kind of contact since she wants to be friends with her exes. People seem to do anything to hang on to Michael.

Oh yah, heard that Danny lives in the pool house on her property and that he and Lockwood are good friends. They are all scientologists. IDK, I wonder if Danny remarried or something. I wouldn't want to be his wife and living on his ex-wife's property. Unless, they are all one big happy family.

yes, the timeline is correct. And wow about the neverland thing. Can you imagine, they probably would have fixed things or establish a friendship if he would have remembered. and yea, Michael hates being confronted, but maybe if lisa said something like "can we meet somewhere" all nicely he would have gone. and yeah danny has been living there ALL through out Lisa's relationship with Nic,Michael, lockwood etc. sorry, but thats not normal lol Can you imagine, while Michael was staying at Lisa's for months, lockwood was at the pool house. They disliked each other so there must have been tension. and if Lisa called in 2005/2006 and not during her pregnancy, then its possible she had doubts about lockwood because she couldnt let go of her pass. But everything i've read has pointed out to that Lisa was pregnant during the phone call.

 

[dori727]

^^^^ and to add to this,...

on the neverland thing, i would have been pissed out of my mind if i drove 3 hours to see someone and they forgot i was there. I would have probably been just as mad as Lisa. And i would have done 3 things, 1 wait for him to come back and ask him wat was up with that, 2. Call him, if possible and ask him if he forgot and that if he can come back becuase i didn't drive 3 hours for nothing. Or 3. just leave...leave mad...cause let me tell you, on the way back hom the ride must have been ugly. Lisa must have been furious! i know i would have. oh and i probably would have ignored all his phone calls until i cooled down. Then i would have called, calmly, and demand an explanation.

 

[mj_forever]

I swear she was everything he needed in his life... Her personality - smoker, uncontrollable cussing, not a pushover... What do you think?

i just read portions of the Taborelli book which talked of LMP, and i agree with you - i think she was good for Michael, and exactly the kind of wife he needed. she made him laugh and she boosted his morale, even after the Bashir docu. it's really sad that Michael let her go, but then i'm not privy to exactly what went on. someone talked about the Scientology stuff as a source of major conflict, but i don't know about that. i'm just saying her personality was the kind that could have helped him, if only he allowed her to. she was strong and also very smart and could identify the 'leeches and vampires' around him for what they were.

the author said he thought Michael had hoped that eventually, they would get back together again...

 

[dori727]

i just read portions of the Taborelli book which talked of LMP, and i agree with you - i think she was good for Michael, and exactly the kind of wife he needed. she made him laugh and she boosted his morale, even after the Bashir docu. it's really sad that Michael let her go, but then i'm not privy to exactly what went on. someone talked about the Scientology stuff as a source of major conflict, but i don't know about that. i'm just saying her personality was the kind that could have helped him, if only he allowed her to. she was strong and also very smart and could identify the 'leeches and vampires' around him for what they were.

the author said he thought Michael had hoped that eventually, they would get back together again...

he did and i had also had hoped they would get back together again. :depressed:

 

[mandy543]

lol YES! He did say that

I don't remember if Donald said it during in an interview or in the book he wrote in the last 90s. Does anyone remember?

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Whaaat?? :no: She was full of it at the time I think. Seen things? Sure that's why you were seen with your kids all over the world with him after the divorce. :smilerolleyes: That was the anger talking, but damn...



lol you wouldn't want them to go purgatory since purgatory is a cleansing place for b/f you go to heaven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory



Dori you are awesome!!!! :clapping:Thanks for the link!

I recall this as well, about her seeing things, but later on i was told by fans that this was the media's doing. Twisting her story around. Lisa never said anything about seeing things. I also recall a video in where the interviewer tries to get her start to talk some garbage about how he's with children....and Lisa almost interrupts her and said 'oh no no, there's no bad thing i can say about how he's with children' . Something along those lines.