When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[Shamonee]

Oh shit, I have so much catching up to do in this thread.. I waste too much of my day on MJJC :lol:

*scanning through LIFE mag interview - thank you Dori my love*

it is sort of a sticky situation that we are getting ourselves into, but at the same tim no one is saying that this or this happened. We are just giving our opinions and what could have possibly happened. And i do agree with you that Michael was head over heals over Lisa and vice versa. and here are the pics to the day Michael took lisa out to dinner for her birthday while married to Debbie. Mods, if this by anychance upsets any of you or violates anything then i'm sorry, that was not my intention. Please don't delete the thread, just let me know and i'll immediately take out the post.

Oh man, seeing those pictures makes my eyes water. Why was he wearing that mask though? He should have taken it off! Very very sweet nonetheless.

[/b]

let me say I TOTALLY VALUE your opinion. I do. i would disagree. i guess i don't want to be like "your were under this sort of pressure.... its ok to use mj as a scapegoat?
we can agree to disagree. but i do value your and anyone's else opinion. i think you won't change my mind and i won't change your mind. thats ok.
LOL!!!!

lolz, that's a very polite way of putting it. But I don't think she used MJ as a "scapegoat" at all. She never used him for her own benefit either. I can understand that she must have felt fustrated/worn out with all these samey questions which were constantly being thrown at her ever since she married Michael though. So I, personally, don't blame her for saying some things which she probably does regret today. Hell, a girl needs to have strength to put up with being Michael's wife let alone his ex. lol

 

[leannascarlet]

There is no doubt in my mind that Lisa Marie & Michael truly loved each other.

It takes a STRONG man to be with a STRONG woman - and yes, Lisa Marie Presley is an H.B.I.C. (Head Bitch In Control) Diva in my book.

I remember LMs blog posting after Michael's death was everywhere. She really feels guilty for leaving him. And I really think her biggest regret is saying no to Michael's wishes of being a father. I'm sure she looks at MJs babies and says "these could've been my kids."

Yes, at the time Lisa Marie wanted a solo career and having more children were not on her itinerary as well. She also tried to get adjusted to Michael's life, which is non-stop working and his overwhelming fame. Lisa Marie had every right to make her choice.

But she feels guilty for something that really wasn't under her control. I wish I could give her a hug.

i second this,

 

[Momma Shannon]

Guys, some posts in here are over the line. We do not allow speculation into what happened in their private life back on topic of when they last spoke or it will be closed.

 

[VanX]

No disrespect Shannon, but it's SO hard to talk about when they last spoke without speculation because we're all speculating about when they last spoke.... you know? It's so hard to draw that line... I think I'll just stay out of here to avoid trouble!

 

[CTU]

Okay, please don't delete the post, at least we can refer to the links and photo here.

 

[Shamonee]

I would have thought that if the thread does get out of hand, the mods would close it meaning we have the opportunity to still view it but can't post... I hope they consider it anyway.

Back on topic - should I make a poll? It would be interesting to see what the fans believe to have been the last time L/M spoke.

& I've been listening to Don't Walk Away...

 

[sannahchu]

I used to noticed the different kind of glow in MJ's face during his marriage to LM. They did look so handsome and perfect together. I believed too that despite of their divorced the two still had a mutual respect and love for each other.....

MJ always said nice words when it comes to LM and always wishing her well..........and I think she's the only girl that MJ really did fell in love with.....

 

[dori727]

I recall this as well, about her seeing things, but later on i was told by fans that this was the media's doing. Twisting her story around. Lisa never said anything about seeing things. I also recall a video in where the interviewer tries to get her start to talk some garbage about how he's with children....and Lisa almost interrupts her and said 'oh no no, there's no bad thing i can say about how he's with children' . Something along those lines.

yes, Lisa meant "i saw things i didn't like" referring to the people around him and stuff. She didn't directly say it cause of the molestation and stuff. and actually, after she came out with a disclaimer stating that her words had been twisted around and apologized about it.

 

[dori727]

No disrespect Shannon, but it's SO hard to talk about when they last spoke without speculation because we're all speculating about when they last spoke.... you know? It's so hard to draw that line... I think I'll just stay out of here to avoid trouble!

i agree, its really hard to not talk about their private life when we are trying to find pin point around the last time they spoke. But i guess we can give it a try..lol

imo the last time they spoke was that day she called him and he didn't talk. Judging by how she was at the funeral, and judging by the fact that in the last few years Michael wasn't in contact with a lot of people, i have came to the conclusion that that was their last conversation. If the conversation went bad or it was awkward, that means that they probably didn't speak after that. Especially if he was busy with the concerts and what not and she was busy with the kids.

What are your conclusions and why?

 

[indranee]

hey dori, I'm so glad you got another MJ/LMP thread!

fascinating stuff... hoping this one doesn't get deleted!

 

[dori727]

^^^^^ lol i didn't start this one but i'm also glad there is finally a thread in where we can discuss this hahaha and yes indranee, i hope this one doesn't get deleted either it's such a good interesting thread! =)

 

[elmari]

Yeah, I also heard that Lisa's comments were twisted by the media and afterwards she came out and said that they were twisted and what they had printed wasn't what she meant. They do the same thing to Michael, so I wouldn't put it past the media to do the same thing to anyone that talks about Michael, good or bad.

From my analysis, Lisa wanted closure with Michael. That's why she called him. Obviously, they had a disagreement about something around 2003 that has prevented them from being friends or even acquaintances. I think she wanted closure because I don't think she wanted Michael's shadow to hang over her marriage to Lockwood, esp since she was pregnant. I totally think Michael's shadow hung over the marriage to Nic Cage and could have contributed to the divorce.

 

[micaro7]

Yeah, I also heard that Lisa's comments were twisted by the media and afterwards she came out and said that they were twisted and what they had printed wasn't what she meant. They do the same thing to Michael, so I wouldn't put it past the media to do the same thing to anyone that talks about Michael, good or bad.

quote]

yes her words were twisted but she never should have said it in the first place.
Michael's been arrested and his ex-wife is saying she saw things????
Come on..
yes she had to clarify her comments but as I said earlier - no comment would have sufficed.
She's kept her mouth closed pretty much since then which she should have in the first place.

 

[indranee]

well, it's completely possible that HE didn't want closure. hence why he was quiet during that conversation. I believe that he never quite got over her and had always hoped that they would end up together. it must have been crushing to him to know that she was pregnant again.

either way, I feel bad for them both. it could have been very different for them... for ALL of us... if they'd stayed together. but we can't predict the future. their story serves as a big lesson for all of us...

 

[dori727]

well, it's completely possible that HE didn't want closure. hence why he was quiet during that conversation. I believe that he never quite got over her and had always hoped that they would end up together. it must have been crushing to him to know that she was pregnant again.

either way, I feel bad for them both. it could have been very different for them... for ALL of us... if they'd stayed together. but we can't predict the future. their story serves as a big lesson for all of us...

yes, their story has been a lesson. If you really find something worth it, don't let it go. And that's a good point, that maybe he didn't talk because he didn't want closure...hmmm it seems likely. Like he didn't want it to end, Michael has ALWAYS thought that he was the one for Lisa and that she will always come back to him. And that actually happened until Lisa met Lockwood. And even like that it took her a while. But then she got pregnant, and boom, reality check to Michael. Lisa was starting a new life, and even if she probably didn't want it to end as much as michael didn't want it to end, she needed to move on. She couldn't wait forever for Michael. And i agree, Michael has always been a shadow in her relationships with other men.

And back to another point elmari brought up, what if the phone call was indeed in 2005 and not in 2007/2008 like some of us think? what if Lisa called Michael right before she married lockwood? If this indeed happened then 1) Lisa did this to try to create a friendship with Michael, the way she has with Danny and nick (danny's brother was even a witness at Michael and lisa's wedding) or 2) She really wasn't sure about whether or not she should marry Lockwood and wanted to see what was up with her and Michael. Maybe she wanted michael to tell her that she loved him, or to atleast express how he really feels about her. Michael probably didn't open up, and he is always thinking about other people, so he probably said something like "yeah, sure lisa, get married, if that's what you want". Maybe Lisa wanted him to say no, i don't want you to get married? something along those lines. I mean, supposedly michael had told people after her brake up with nic cage that he wanted to get back with her, and he did call her.

And if the conversation was durin 2007/2008 when she was pregnant then definitely, IMHO, the reason why he didn't talk was because of the fact that she was pregnant and because he didn't want it to end, he didn't want to say a final goodbye or "clear things up" as in the just friends thing. Maybe he honestly felt that his one and only wife forever is Lisa. Plus, That pregnancy, what Lisa had denied to him had to be, imo, was the final blow to their relationship. And maybe the reason why they didn't talk after is because the pregnancy is still very recent, he could have still been resenting it and maybe he was still mad about it.

****and again, all this is based on my honest opinion and i'm sorry if i said anything (this is for the mods) that shouldn't have been said. Let me know, and i'll delete it ASAP

 

[indranee]

yes, mods, please give us a warning -- PM us or something. please don't delete this thread. we should be careful in not digging too deep... yeah... this is, after all, personal stuff to Lisa, but I believe that this relationship gives us a look into Michael's psyche that many, many other things and events do not. I know, I know, he is a man of mystery -- that's what he wanted to be, always and forever. but for us -- even little scraps reveal precious tidbits that, especially now that he's gone -- assume much larger significance in the life of the man that we all love.

but we should be careful.

anyway, dori, yeah, I believe you're on the right track there. I just wish that they'd had someone who could have talked to them both... someone they'd both trusted, someone who loved them both and wanted the relationship to survive and get back on track. I mean, they couldn't really get couples therapy, could they?

also, somebody upthread had another good point: Michael always did what he wanted to do. no one and nothing could dissuade him from the path he chose to tread. no matter how wrong-headed he was being, once he'd made up his mind, he went for it. I have a lot of sympathy for Lisa because *I am* like that. I am extremely stubborn and, much to my later regret, I have done things to my detriment because I wanted to do it. and it's made life hell for my family, my ex, and other people who love me. it's not easy for them. I can imagine what it was like for Lisa to get through to Mike... I mean, he took the cake when it came to pigheadedness! we love the man to bits, but we know it.

sigh... I really wish they'd stayed together somehow. I don't think we'd have lost him if they had. I know how hard it is for her to acknowledge everything and face the truth, but if anyone can do it, it'd be Lisa. it's in her blood and her religious training. this fact was blatant in her blog post two months ago. so my heart weeps for her.

 

[dori727]

yes, mods, please give us a warning -- PM us or something. please don't delete this thread. we should be careful in not digging too deep... yeah... this is, after all, personal stuff to Lisa, but I believe that this relationship gives us a look into Michael's psyche that many, many other things and events do not. I know, I know, he is a man of mystery -- that's what he wanted to be, always and forever. but for us -- even little scraps reveal precious tidbits that, especially now that he's gone -- assume much larger significance in the life of the man that we all love.

but we should be careful.

anyway, dori, yeah, I believe you're on the right track there. I just wish that they'd had someone who could have talked to them both... someone they'd both trusted, someone who loved them both and wanted the relationship to survive and get back on track. I mean, they couldn't really get couples therapy, could they?

also, somebody upthread had another good point: Michael always did what he wanted to do. no one and nothing could dissuade him from the path he chose to tread. no matter how wrong-headed he was being, once he'd made up his mind, he went for it. I have a lot of sympathy for Lisa because *I am* like that. I am extremely stubborn and, much to my later regret, I have done things to my detriment because I wanted to do it. and it's made life hell for my family, my ex, and other people who love me. it's not easy for them. I can imagine what it was like for Lisa to get through to Mike... I mean, he took the cake when it came to pigheadedness! we love the man to bits, but we know it.

sigh... I really wish they'd stayed together somehow. I don't think we'd have lost him if they had. I know how hard it is for her to acknowledge everything and face the truth, but if anyone can do it, it'd be Lisa. it's in her blood and her religious training. this fact was blatant in her blog post two months ago. so my heart weeps her.

Yes i agree, and that's why i've always mentioned how i personally think Janet could have gotten these two locked up in a room or something and made them talk. Janet was extremely close to Lisa, even after she divorced Michael, and we all know how close Janet and Michael were to each other. janet could have definitely pulled it off, especially if she had both of them always asking about each other to her haha

and also, yes, we all know it, Michael was hardheaded and did what he wanted to. But i admire him for this because if it weren't for this ambition, he would have never succeeded as much as he has. But in reference to his relationship to Lisa, he should have eased up a bit. Lisa did sacrifice alot to be with him, he should have tried to understand her a little more, or waited until she was ready to have kids. Like i said, if my husband tells me "oh blah blah say;s she'll give me a baby if you don't etc" i probably would have reacted just like lisa. But, remember, this is both their faults lol. Lisa is also just as hard headed as Michael, probably more reasonable, but yes hard headed IMO. But she is also hardheaded in the way Michael is, they have ambition. She didn't care what people around her were saying, less her mother. She did what she wanted to do and she has been like that her entire life. and actually, i admire Lisa for this too, cause if she wouldn't be like that she probably wouldn't have married Michael. But she followed her heart, and did it. But then again, because she is hardheaded and she is also very prideful.

So now you have two hardheaded people who are both full of pride, and in their case, are both very hurt. This alone could have made any conversation awkward. Lisa hurt by something that "happened" in 2003, and Michael hurt by her pregnancy and recent marriage. INTENSE! lol (needed to add some comedy). oh, and i forgot to mention who are very passionate. These two never had an in between stage, it was either really happy and passionately in love, or extremely mad to the point where they probably had moments in where they detested each other.

And again, if that was their last conversation, then thats really sad. Both of them deserved a better ending than this.

and again, sorry mods if anything i wrote is not allowed. PM me and let me know and i'll delete it.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

I recall this as well, about her seeing things, but later on i was told by fans that this was the media's doing. Twisting her story around. Lisa never said anything about seeing things. I also recall a video in where the interviewer tries to get her start to talk some garbage about how he's with children....and Lisa almost interrupts her and said 'oh no no, there's no bad thing i can say about how he's with children' . Something along those lines.

Yeah, I also heard that Lisa's comments were twisted by the media and afterwards she came out and said that they were twisted and what they had printed wasn't what she meant. They do the same thing to Michael, so I wouldn't put it past the media to do the same thing to anyone that talks about Michael, good or bad.

Thanks guys for clearing that up.

And back to another point elmari brought up, what if the phone call was indeed in 2005 and not in 2007/2008 like some of us think? what if Lisa called Michael right before she married lockwood? If this indeed happened then 1) Lisa did this to try to create a friendship with Michael, the way she has with Danny and nick (danny's brother was even a witness at Michael and lisa's wedding) or 2) She really wasn't sure about whether or not she should marry Lockwood and wanted to see what was up with her and Michael. Maybe she wanted michael to tell her that she loved him, or to atleast express how he really feels about her. Michael probably didn't open up, and he is always thinking about other people, so he probably said something like "yeah, sure lisa, get married, if that's what you want". Maybe Lisa wanted him to say no, i don't want you to get married? something along those lines. I mean, supposedly michael had told people after her brake up with nic cage that he wanted to get back with her, and he did call her.

And if the conversation was durin 2007/2008 when she was pregnant then definitely, IMHO, the reason why he didn't talk was because of the fact that she was pregnant and because he didn't want it to end, he didn't want to say a final goodbye or "clear things up" as in the just friends thing. Maybe he honestly felt that his one and only wife forever is Lisa. Plus, That pregnancy, what Lisa had denied to him had to be, imo, was the final blow to their relationship. And maybe the reason why they didn't talk after is because the pregnancy is still very recent, he could have still been resenting it and maybe he was still mad about it.

If the last time they chatted was in 2003, then of course whether she called in 2005 or 2007/2008 he wasn't going to be completely open with his feelings to her because of everything that had been going on.

If the call was in 2005 and it was the second scenario you mentioned; that makes me sad. I keep thinking 'what did she expect' in regards to him opening up completely to her, but sometimes people don't try to think what others could be feeling. So she might have taken his response as approval or disinterest, when it might have been he was still interested.

I can't help but think 'what if,' if that meeting in 2003 had happened ?(if we are to believe that story; but it would explain some of her behavior in '03.)

Sorry Mods, if my post needs to be corrected, please PM me and I'll do so.

 

[micaro7]

oh my there is too much what if this happened, or this happened going on in this thread like some kind of fan fiction.
The only thing we know for sure is what Lisa's said which no matter how you cut it, was very crappy to do especially since it wasn't just one interview, it was almost every interview she did.

And all of those quotes are out there now and she can't take them back which is the most f'ed up part about it.
There is no I'm sorry's, there is no way to clean that up.
It's better to have just left it alone.

She could have talked about how he was in the studio, I'm sure she learned a great deal from him. MJ was brillant in the studio, or how he composed or wrote or anything else but pile on the crap
so if MJ was silent during their last conversation which I think was in 06 I don't blame him.

 

[CTU]

yes, Lisa meant "i saw things i didn't like" referring to the people around him and stuff. She didn't directly say it cause of the molestation and stuff. and actually, after she came out with a disclaimer stating that her words had been twisted around and apologized about it.

I think she meant she's been trying to stop Michael to hang out with kids and he didn't listen to her. She might also meant the drugs too? I don't think she's stupid enough to say something to contribute to his wrong doing to put him to jail. I think she was blunt and the media twist it. As I mentioned earlier, I couldn't believe that she ignored him throughout his trial, it was his life/death there. Everyone knew if he was sent to jail, he'd be dead. I think may be she even tried to call him too. Oh may be she called him, but he wasn't talking because he was overwhelm with his problem.

i agree, its really hard to not talk about their private life when we are trying to find pin point around the last time they spoke. But i guess we can give it a try..lol

imo the last time they spoke was that day she called him and he didn't talk. Judging by how she was at the funeral, and judging by the fact that in the last few years Michael wasn't in contact with a lot of people, i have came to the conclusion that that was their last conversation. If the conversation went bad or it was awkward, that means that they probably didn't speak after that. Especially if he was busy with the concerts and what not and she was busy with the kids.

What are your conclusions and why?

Could someone tell me what source said that she called him, which interview?????

I think if the call really happened, I think he had a trust issue to just open up on a phone call. They must haven't talked for a long time, what make you think he would open up? I think he would talked to her, but deep conversation is not possible - even for a normal people - but with his trust issue, been stabbed in the back throughout those trail, I don't think so.

From the poll, many people seem to think the talked in the past few years... that'd make sense too. There's a thing call mobile phone... I hope he wasn't really out of himself and not capable of keep his line open for those who he's willing to talk to. I bet his mom would be able to contact him all the time. Some people said that people around him block him, but I hope he didn't allow that to happen to all his personal life too. I wish they talked lately, and I wish he kind of knew that what Lisa said to the media is the way she felt that he didn't love her much enough... I think he knew that he didn't try hard enough to keep her with him when they broke up - that gave Lisa a lot of doubts whether he loved her that much. He pleaded her not to go song "Don't walk away" if he wrote that.. hahaha. He couldn't convinced her that he didn't use her and loved her so much too. I always thought Lisa would had say much more in the interview if she wished, but she didn't.

 

[dori727]

Thanks guys for clearing that up.



If the last time they chatted was in 2003, then of course whether she called in 2005 or 2007/2008 he wasn't going to be completely open with his feelings to her because of everything that had been going on.

If the call was in 2005 and it was the second scenario you mentioned; that makes me sad. I keep thinking 'what did she expect' in regards to him opening up completely to her, but sometimes people don't try to think what others could be feeling. So she might have taken his response as approval or disinterest, when it might have been he was still interested.

I can't help but think 'what if,' if that meeting in 2003 had happened ?(if we are to believe that story; but it would explain some of her behavior in '03.)

Sorry Mods, if my post needs to be corrected, please PM me and I'll do so.

lol i like how we keep saying sorry mods etc haha

and yes, Michael seemed like he would be the type to act "indifferent" when in reality he was hurting more than ever. And yes, the ditching in neverland, if true, does explain her behavior after 2003. I'm sorry, but i repeat, if someone drives 2-3 hours to see you, alone, it means that person really does care about you. But by michael leaving and not waiting for her it showed her disinterest, and maybe the reason why she felt a the time, used. She felt like she was being played with. That day must have been killer for her, and Michael probably did apologize, but the damaged had already been done. That is probably the day lisa finally decided she had had enough, and that she needs to move on.

I also ask myself about the what if's, I can't help it, its human nature lol. But seriously, if they would have met in 2003, at the ranch, with NO ONE around, it would have made the biggest difference in the world. Michael already had all 3 kids, so idk what he was thinking by leaving or forgetting Lisa was on her way. And honestly, in my opinion, don't hate me for this, lol, i think that if that day, 2003, would have happened would have been a 90 percent chance that Lisa and Michael would have ended up together again. I mean, 2-3 hours in a car for an ex? That's true love! lol the trials could have been avoided, and if not avoided he would have felt more supported, and maybe Michael would have been alived today. And if he wouldn't have been alive today, he definitely wouldn't have been depressed in his last few years. And lisa wouldn't have approved of the murray and the drug taking. Actually, any wife figure there that night could have made the biggest difference in the world. First, i don't think a women period would be to comfortable with the idea of a man in her room besides her husband, there while she sleeps. And secondly, a wife next to him could have reacted quicker than murray, or would have told murray not to give him so much every hour etc. Especially Lisa who knows the harm and bad that can do. idk, i can't help either but to think what could have happened if 1) he would have waited 5 more minutes at neverland (maybe he thought she wasn't coming) 2) if the phone conversation would have been instead in person, or more successful, or 3) if he would have still been married to lisa, remarried lisa, or remarry someone else.

 

[indranee]

yeah, and I very seriously doubt that with Lisa around, he'd have needed sedatives in order to fall asleep!

 

[dori727]

I think she meant she's been trying to stop Michael to hang out with kids and he didn't listen to her. She might also meant the drugs too? I don't think she's stupid enough to say something to contribute to his wrong doing to put him to jail. I think she was blunt and the media twist it. As I mentioned earlier, I couldn't believe that she ignored him throughout his trial, it was his life/death there. Everyone knew if he was sent to jail, he'd be dead. I think may be she even tried to call him too. Oh may be she called him, but he wasn't talking because he was overwhelm with his problem.



.

Actually, i don't think the "things she saw" had anything to do with Michael and kids. Lisa said that "never never never ever ever ever ever "and i quote, did she see Michael with kids or anything like that. And i don't think the drugs was that big of a factor. By the time Michael was with Lisa he had gone through rehab and i dont think he was into it anymore. I think lisa meant she saw things she didn't like as in she saw people she didn't like giving bad advice, or using him. Supposedly, Lisa hated karen faye, and Karen hated her back. Maybe thats what Lisa meant that she saw things she didn't like. Like people giving him bad advice, or getting into their marriage. And Lisa is very observant, she must have had her eye on everyone who came in contact with michael. Remember, she also said she was extremely over protected of him. And i read somewhere that once Lisa and Mike got into this fight, and he was in the recording studio with someon (forgot who now). Lisa walked in and sat down next to michael and stared at him the entire time. After 30 minutes she got up and left and said "nice talking to you". Michael had confrontation problems, he was afraid of showing emotions (ironic cause on stage there were LOTS of emotions :winks: ) and Lisa, well, Lisa wanted to feel wanted and is also very impulsive. And yea, if Lisa called in 2005, then the trials had just finished, and we all now michael was a changed man after that...he became more secluded. And it it was later on when she was pregnant, then he must have been extremely hurt.

 

[dori727]

yeah, and I very seriously doubt that with Lisa around, he'd have needed sedatives in order to fall asleep!

lmfao i second this!

 

[CTU]

yeah, and I very seriously doubt that with Lisa around, he'd have needed sedatives in order to fall asleep!

His life would have been totally different!!!

By the way, Randy book said that he had a doctor with him in mid 90s on tour, to sedated him to sleep and bring him back. I think he always had his drug problem, but he could control it. We had to went to rehab because of the trial drained him in 1993 and he couldn't control himself over his drugs. It might sound so negative to be an addicted, but to be honest, what would you do if you're in his shoes... he has too many pains, anxiety and insomnia. I really admire him that he didn't need drug to get high to perform, how many singer could do that? I think his problem that Lisa was so concerned is his drugs and people around him that kiss his ass and give him a self confident in a wrong way.

 

[indranee]

well, we now have no doubt as to why he hated to tour. his sensitive nervous system couldn't handle the excitement and adrenaline. he was already a night owl, and he couldn't sleep at all. but unlike when he was not touring, he needed his sleep. so he found out about the Propofol. I'd like to strangle the doctor who first told him about this med grrrr

as for the phone call. come on guys, Lisa hurt him. sure, he'd hurt her, but she hurt him too. and she knows it. hence the unburdening on her blog, the unbearable guilt, and the crying at the funeral (if it is true). this is really it for her... for them. it's very sad. I feel for her.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

Hmm, I know its OT but he already explained in PHM why he doesn't like touring. Your body has to get adjusted to the different times zones; to flying. Plus you have an adreline rush afterwards because of the performance its not easy to sleep. I don't think it was b/c his nervous system couldn't handle the excitement.

As for the report from CNN that LMP was very emotional at the burial, I believe it. Remember that it was mentioned that Larry King was there; I'm sure it was him who was texting them details.

I doubt Lisa needs anyone to remind her about the things she said about him in '03; not that the '03 missed mtg scenario it excuses what she said but I feel like she is regreting it big time now.

lol i like how we keep saying sorry mods etc haha

and yes, Michael seemed like he would be the type to act "indifferent" when in reality he was hurting more than ever. And yes, the ditching in neverland, if true, does explain her behavior after 2003. I'm sorry, but i repeat, if someone drives 2-3 hours to see you, alone, it means that person really does care about you. But by michael leaving and not waiting for her it showed her disinterest, and maybe the reason why she felt a the time, used. She felt like she was being played with. That day must have been killer for her, and Michael probably did apologize, but the damaged had already been done. That is probably the day lisa finally decided she had had enough, and that she needs to move on.

I also ask myself about the what if's, I can't help it, its human nature lol. But seriously, if they would have met in 2003, at the ranch, with NO ONE around, it would have made the biggest difference in the world. Michael already had all 3 kids, so idk what he was thinking by leaving or forgetting Lisa was on her way. And honestly, in my opinion, don't hate me for this, lol, i think that if that day, 2003, would have happened would have been a 90 percent chance that Lisa and Michael would have ended up together again. I mean, 2-3 hours in a car for an ex? That's true love! lol the trials could have been avoided, and if not avoided he would have felt more supported, and maybe Michael would have been alived today. And if he wouldn't have been alive today, he definitely wouldn't have been depressed in his last few years. And lisa wouldn't have approved of the murray and the drug taking. Actually, any wife figure there that night could have made the biggest difference in the world. First, i don't think a women period would be to comfortable with the idea of a man in her room besides her husband, there while she sleeps. And secondly, a wife next to him could have reacted quicker than murray, or would have told murray not to give him so much every hour etc. Especially Lisa who knows the harm and bad that can do. idk, i can't help either but to think what could have happened if 1) he would have waited 5 more minutes at neverland (maybe he thought she wasn't coming) 2) if the phone conversation would have been instead in person, or more successful, or 3) if he would have still been married to lisa, remarried lisa, or remarry someone else.

I agree; I wouldn't drive 2-3 hours in a car to go visit somebody I was indifferent about lol. If he was telling people he wanted to get back together w/ her after her divorce from NC; then yes, I agree there is a chance they could have gotten back together. I don't think she was over him. He would have definitely felt more supported and happier with Lisa back in his life-or a woman who loved him, period. I also agree that Lisa wouldn't have approved of Murray using sedatives. She would have insisted on a different treatment method (if he was still having insomia-we know the trial didn't help w/ that) and possibly a different doctor. Likely someone who specializes in sleep disorders.

 

[dori727]

yes, i agree with both of you. Michael did have this problem with sleeping. I admire the fact that he never took drugs like marijuana, cocaine, any of those just for the thrill of it. In my family we love to go to concerts and shows, my mom and i have always spoken about famous people, and how bad we feel for them because of the lack of sleep, your drained etc and she has always told me that artist take sleeping pills and stuff to sleep on planes. We went once to puerto rico and we were backstage during this one performance of this spanish group that is actually really big in latin countries called RBD. They had traveled from another country the night before, they had a concert the day before that, and now in puerto rico they had two back to back concerts on the same day, to later that night catch a plane to go to california to shoot a video. and i was with them the whole day, not once did they eat. So imagine michael, who is 1203948302398420394 times bigger than this spanish group. Michael must have been extremely drained everytime he went on tour..no sleep, no food, the excitement, the loneliness etc. Michael wanted to get some rest and so that led him to those type of drugs. He didn't take them for his own selfish needs like "getting high", he took them because he was desperate for sleep. And trust me, its happen to me a BUNCH of times, when you can't sleep, and you've spend days without sleeping you go insane! lol your cranky and moody all the time, and you are always tired. And the worse part is at night, when your tired you can't go to sleep, thats a killer. A that moment you get desperate for anything. Advil pm, tv, music, etc you've named it, i've done it (in legal wise, lol i would like to state i've never done anything illegal in reference to trying to go to sleep...and i;ve never taken drugs haha...ok back to where we were....). So imagine michael, with all that power he could have gotten ANYTHING he wanted. And that probably is what lisa meant by "i saw things". But honestly, i really think this sleeping think only affected a minor part of their relationship. Something else, something bigger in emotional terms happened in 2003 that made her go all out...and if everything that has been said in here is true, then all fingers point to the day he left her at neverland.

and as for the phone call.. Lisa didn't have to call michael at all during her pregnancy to clear up anything. A person who was really "indifferent" wouldn't have cared. Lisa called because, imo, the pregnancy reminded her too much of Michael. She probably had been contemplating for weeks on whether or not to call him. A part of her probably did know he was hurt, but if what happened in neverland is true, and knowing how michael would have probably pretended not to mind Lisa's pregnancy, it led the other part of lisa to think that maybe he really didn't care. Even if she knew it had hurt him, there was a part of Lisa that still believed she had been used. and i agree indranee, this is all too sad...real real sad. For both of them, they deserve better. Michael died with doubts on how Lisa felt and never knew exactly how much she loved him, and Lisa, well, Lisa i believe is also going to carry on with the what if's? like we are and the unbearable guilt. I too feel for her.

 

[indranee]

I believe that his nervous system was very highly tuned. like a guitar string stretched taut. it was partly responsible for his creativity at night, his emotional nature (he cried very easily) and his sleeplessness before and after big events.

it wasn't just the time zones. if it was just the time zones, he'd not have a difficult time sleeping this time around while he was STILL IN LA. he'd be having it once he got to Britain.

either way, it's too late to speculate on the whys and the wherefores and the what-ifs about this. I feel so helpless and hopeless. I wish, I wish... etc. it's no damned use.

 

[mandy543]

Which MJ songs do you think are about LMP?

I think Break of Dawn, Dont Walk Away, The way you love me, You rock my world, and Beautiful girl are all about her