When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

When do you think they last spoke to each other?


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Where is this from

"but that she had just changed her number and that we had not gotten the new number yet. I thought that was interesting." is it from the michael jackson tapes book, which chapter is that? Did I miss it? Please let me know.
 
^^^^^^ I don't think michael is that cruel. he would have not taken the kids away from lisa, and i don't think Lisa would have taken the kids away from Michael. Even with HER kids she allowed Michael to visit them after etc.

Yup. :yes: That's what I meant by that. He wouldn't have said 'hell no, I don't want you to see the kids.' They would have worked something out and had joint custody. I feel she wouldn't have said she wanted sole custody either.

As far as them breaking up the first time or a hypothetical second time, communication and trust is key. I think (and this is IMO) better communication b/w the two of them=they'd be better able to understand why & what the other is thinking/feeling, less worried about what other people are telling them about each other, more focused on loving each other & growing together. Much less likely to break up...
 
What about the $15 million divorce settlement that I keep hearing she got?

Key is: YOU keep hearing - it's a rumour, nothing else. Michael confirmed on the tapes to the Rabbi it wasn't true. Just like I thought.
 
oh and this is of topic, but in the taraborrelli Book "supposedly" michael dislikes brooke shields greatly etc...But in the recordings he has wonderful recollections of her etc and he was excited when talking about her. This just proves that taraborrelli is full of it.


You know, I laughed hard when Karen Faye said recently that Brooke was Michael's love of life. I also laughed when I frist read Michael saying to the Rabbi she was one of his big loves. But after I read his thoughts on women in general, I start to wonder if that is true - from a certain aspect.

Michael leaves no doubt in the book he loves women to be "pure" and he hates it when women use their sexuality to get things from men. But his environment was full of women of the later type. Brooke was a rare exception in Hollywood as she too remained a virgin for relatively long.

I still don't think he was in love with Brooke at the time, in the 80s, but I think in the hindsight maybe he had second thoughts about her. IMO at the time he was totally in love with Diana. In 1984 he told Ebony he wanted to marry her. In 1986 when Diana got married he looked totally pissed at her at the American Music Awards. Everything was written on his face. It's strange because Diana is exactly the type of woman who he despises in the Rabbi's book! Who would use her sexuality to get things from men - he used her sexuality on Michael too. And Michael knew it, yet he couldn't help loving her, lusting after her.
Now, listen to Dirty Diana.....

So, maybe in the hindsight he is more fond of Brooke than he was at the time and regrets focusing his emotions on Diana, rather than her. He actually told it to the Rabbi that once they got close to being intimate with Brooke but he "chickened out". But he regrets it in the hindsight.....

Anyway, to say Michael hated Brooke is stupid. If he had hated her they wouldn't have been "together" (in whatever capacity) for 12-13 years...

And apparently they still kept contact (at least on the phone) in his later years because Brooke mentioned to Rolling Stone that Michael called her when her father died and when she had postpartum depression - and that was in 2005.

Maybe in the hindsight Michael thought Brooke was "pure" (she was a virging until 1987), purer than most Hollywood women and she was the only woman who never hurt him. So he decided she was his one of his loves of life.
 
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Where is this from

"but that she had just changed her number and that we had not gotten the new number yet. I thought that was interesting." is it from the michael jackson tapes book, which chapter is that? Did I miss it? Please let me know.

CTU,

That was definitely in the book. It has to be in the section where they are discussing women, relationships, and Lisa Marie.

I was wondering if 'we' were him and the children.
 
I personally think "WE" is him and the kids....Especially since lisa has said that she use to see his kids, or atleast she mentioned prince, and michael has said a few times that Lisa still visits the "kids" meaning more than once. And now we have found out that Lisa would still let michael visit Riley and Ben. SO definitely these two were spending time with each other AND their kids. awww, thats cute =) lol
 
this reminds me of something again... a song about Michael written by one of Britain's top pop duos (the Pet Shop Boys). I think I posted it here before somewhere. it's a beautiful, melancholic tune... very evocative of Michael's last few years. I love this song. I weep sometimes when I hear it. I can't help but think of Mike and his isolation and inability to find what he was seeking.

SB: But marriage is too confirming [sic]?
MJ: Yes. I don't konw whether I am disciplined enough because I am such a rolling stone. I have such a life when I am always on the move and women don't like that. They want you to be settled in one place all the time but I have to move. I have been in the same city as where my house is and I'll check into a hotel just ot feel like I am going somewhere. My house is right there. I guess I am just moving all the time, moving.


guys, listen to this song that Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys said he wrote (he told me this in person too, last month) about Michael back in the summer of 2008. he said he was at first going to call in King of Pop, but King of Rome sounded better and was more poignant and harkened to Michael's isolation more because of how his life corresponded with the actual and erstwhile King of Rome (Napoleon's son) and his circumstances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_12wyOI5Uc
 
I personally think "WE" is him and the kids....Especially since lisa has said that she use to see his kids, or atleast she mentioned prince, and michael has said a few times that Lisa still visits the "kids" meaning more than once. And now we have found out that Lisa would still let michael visit Riley and Ben. SO definitely these two were spending time with each other AND their kids. awww, thats cute =) lol

I think it's he and the kids too. aww... that's nice to think about, is it not? I wonder if they'd see each other now... the two sets of kids. it might be a good idea at some point for them to socialize a bit. Mike's kids might get to hear all kinds of fun stories about their dad from Ben and Riley! :p

anyway, dori, hope your exam went well!
 
this reminds me of something again... a song about Michael written by one of Britain's top pop duos (the Pet Shop Boys). I think I posted it here before somewhere. it's a beautiful, melancholic tune... very evocative of Michael's last few years. I love this song. I weep sometimes when I hear it. I can't help but think of Mike and his isolation and inability to find what he was seeking.

SB: But marriage is too confirming [sic]?
MJ: Yes. I don't konw whether I am disciplined enough because I am such a rolling stone. I have such a life when I am always on the move and women don't like that. They want you to be settled in one place all the time but I have to move. I have been in the same city as where my house is and I'll check into a hotel just ot feel like I am going somewhere. My house is right there. I guess I am just moving all the time, moving.


guys, listen to this song that Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys said he wrote (he told me this in person too, last month) about Michael back in the summer of 2008. he said he was at first going to call in King of Pop, but King of Rome sounded better and was more poignant and harkened to Michael's isolation more because of how his life corresponded with the actual and erstwhile King of Rome (Napoleon's son) and his circumstances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_12wyOI5Uc


I just listened to the song and it is very beautiful. So it is definitely about Michael Jackson? I mean, he is the inspiration for the song? Is that a known fact among Pet Shop Boy fans cuz nobody really commented that it was about Michael on the youtube video I watched.

In all honesty, I think I would have thought it would be more poignant if it had been 'King of Pop'. But it sounds like the writer really wanted to help Michael in the lyrics 'Call me, Call me today.' Do you think they knew each other and were perhaps friends?

King of Rome

Small man, big world
Lost beyond the pale
I know you inside out
I can tell the tale

Across the sky a change of time
Last night I lost all day
I'm here and there or anywhere
Away from Manderley

And if I were the King of Rome
I couldn't be more tragic
My fate to roam so far from home
In search of my lost magic

Oh, baby come back
Oh, baby come back to me

The desert moon, a new lagoon
We glide upon the surface
Night falls fast, no shadows cast
Arriving without purpose

Oh, baby call me
Oh, baby call me today

And if I were the King of Rome
I couldn't be more lonely
With so much scope to dream and hope
Someday you'll deign to phone me

Oh, baby call me
Oh, baby call me today

I long for your inscrutable pale face
I hunger for your beautiful embrace
 
hey Elmari, I'm so glad you like the song. it's beautiful!

the reason why not many people know about it is because it's in PSB's literary publication (called "Literally") in the last issue. not many people read that I guess? I have it and I've posted about this song before on this forum, right after I came back from the PSB concert I attended last month here in DC. it was on the day of the funeral.

I'm copying my post in the thread below.

I asked Neil Tennant that night about it, and he confirmed that it was about Mike. he said he did know him and he liked him a lot. Neil is a wonderful chap. very much an intellect, but with an amazing sense of the foibles and woes that life can sometimes heap at you. if you like this song, you should listen to some of his other ones. PSB are an amazing duo, and they have a loyal and loving fan base, and have been unbelievably long lasting... just like Mike.

here ya go, this is the thread I have the excerpt from Literally in:

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2176520&postcount=100

ps. I also posted in the comments on YT just now. :)
pps. Elmari, if you listen to the line "and if I were the King of Rome, I couldn't be MORE tragic", then it makes sense why Neil didn't call the song "King of Pop". he's comparing Michael to Napoleon's son -- once the "King of Rome". except that he never was. upon his father's exile and then death, he basically became a vagabond, living in exile and in shame, roaming from place to place, until his death. he was probably never aware that he had been declared Emperor of France. a tragic figure born to rule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_II_of_France
 
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When do you think they last spoke?

This is so tragic... They should have been together :(

I only pray that she was civil towards him the last time they did talk...

What do you think?

*sorry if this is in the wrong section. Feel free to move*

Let me enlighten you as to what exactly Miss LMP said about her ex-husband:

From: http://www.marieclaire.com/celebrit...erviews/lisa-marie-presley-pregnant-interview

That's All Right Mama

Expecting twins with her fourth husband, Lisa Marie Presley talks frankly to Marie Claire about ex-husband Michael Jackson, being ripped off by her staff, and refusing to turn into her father.

By Allison Glock



javascript:void(0) It is lunchtime at New York's Mandarin Oriental hotel, and Lisa Marie Presley is piqued. At the tabloids, or maybe at the people who read them — bottom-feeders, she says, who are basically crossing their fingers, hoping she will self-destruct.

"They want me to be him. It's like they can't wait," she groans over green tea and tofu dumplings. "The tabloids were going so far as to alter photos. I could never figure out why they went to all that trouble to make me look fat."

Then, after seeing yet another distorted picture of her, shot from the ground up with headlines heralding her imminent demise, an epiphany.

"It's this morbid obsession. We had to get a lawyer to stop them from putting his face on the cover of a tabloid with me. Sick."

When your father is Elvis, and you share his high cheekbones and lush, downturned mouth, you inherit a certain amount of baggage. The crazy, stalking, sideburned people. The inability to ever, even for a moment, be seen as your own person, and not just the offspring of a deity.

Even so, the sinister hope that you will perish young and out of control in some sort of real-life reenactment of your father's tragedy — well, that was something new.

"They want me to be miserable," Presley, 40, says flatly. "Especially when my life is good."

Recently married to her longtime beau, musician Michael Lockwood, Presley is pregnant with twins. It was news she hoped to keep private, but the gossips outed her — not for having a celebrity "baby bump," but for being a bloated failure.

"It took me a while to make the connection with the dad thing," she says, tossing her chopsticks on the table in favor of a fork. "There are at least six other famous women pregnant right now who aren't getting picked on. But they're all over me. It's like there is a campaign to demean me. You know what I think when I see those fat photos?" she says, with a crooked smile. "I think, Fuck. You. I'm not going to let them control me. I just let it all hang out. You want to look at me? Go ahead and look."

Presley yanks up her black strapless maxi dress, the fabric sliding taut over her very pregnant belly, and rakes her hand through her hair, exhaling noisily.

"I've never even been out of my BMI range," she says with exasperation. "I'm 5-foot-3. If I gain five pounds, it shows." And besides, "when did it become okay to give women a hard time for weight gain? It's harassment.

"I'm trying to grow another human being," she says plaintively. "Besides, I'm 40! I'm lucky to even be able to do this."

After lunch, Presley warily eyes the floral halter tops and ruffled tanks in the maternity wing of a department store and sighs.

"Hey baby, maybe they'll have those pouch pants," quips her husband, 47, a gangly, amiable presence in overalls and a yellow terrycloth Gilligan hat.

"Those just crack you up, don't they?" Presley volleys back, quickly sorting through a rack of white capris. Lockwood grins.

"Uh, I'm done," Presley says, as her husband holds up a pair of jeans with a large, saggy stretch panel.

In the car, the two sit hip to hip, Lockwood's hand caressing Presley's thigh. "I am in awe of her," he says sweetly. "Being pregnant is a lot of work."

"I'm a lot of work," Presley jokes.

"I don't think so," Lockwood answers. "I think it's probably hard to be married to me," Presley explains. "Because shit happens to me that doesn't happen to your average girl. You have to keep your eyes open."

Lockwood shakes his head, brushes Presley's hair off her shoulder.

"I had been through so many awful relationships before Lisa. I was very cynical. When I met her, I told her I didn't believe in love."

"I told him that was bullshit."

"Yeah. She called me out about it. She said I was a coward. She gave me faith." As he talks, Presley stares out the window.

"You want to know the best thing and the worst thing about me?" she says later. "I see things as they really are. People really bullshit themselves. I don't like any filter or rainbows or fluff. And sometimes it is a blessing. And sometimes it makes me the biggest fucking pain in the ass ever. Because people don't want to see that."

Presley comes by her straight talk honestly. Her life has been an endless stream of scrutiny and people taking advantage. Even as a child at Graceland, she was accosted daily by fans of her father, who gave her cameras and begged her to take photos of her house. Hands were forever reaching through the gates.

After her parents divorced when she was 5, Presley lived in Los Angeles with her mother, Priscilla, a woman whose sugary perfection contrasted sharply with her daughter's mutinous leanings. The arrangement proved stifling.

"I couldn't relate to her," Presley says. "She was overbearing and overpowering to me. I couldn't wait to get the hell out of there."

Frequent visits to her father were more indulgent, but fraught; there were spontaneous trips in the private jet, but there were also Daddy's mood swings and depression. Then came his tragic death, and the mourning of a nation that somehow felt its loss was bigger than that of a 9-year-old child.

Rebellion followed. She abused drugs as a teenager, and went to a series of exclusive schools that ended with her dropping out in the 11th grade. At 17, she bolted, moving in with and ultimately marrying musician Danny Keough. Six years and two kids later, the couple divorced, leading Presley into a pair of less prudent, more conspicuous marriages.

"We're all going to screw up," Presley says. "The important thing is, do you learn from it and not do it again? Can you make it better in the future? Can you change? Because, Lord knows, I've fucked up many, many times."

What was the worst time?

"My biggest mistake? Let's see," she begins quietly. "How can I word this? Um. Well. Leaving my first marriage, for the person that I left it for — that was probably the biggest mistake of my life."

She is referring, of course, to Michael Jackson, a man whose name she, consciously or not, avoids saying aloud. This is understandable. The lunacy of the 1994 pairing exploded the celebrity Richter scale. There was the strained Diane Sawyer interview, the rumor that Jackson was only in the relationship for her dad's song catalog, the awkward "kiss" on the MTV Video Music Awards. Presley, poignantly, was not in on the joke.


"I was really naive at the time. I was in la-la land." She grimaces slightly, pushes some fallen hair from her forehead, then lets it all go.

"I had been really sheltered. I got married the first time very, very young. And the marriage I was in, there was so much resentment about who I was, because I had more than he did, and it became a power struggle. It is hard for a man to be with a woman who is stronger, wealthier. So in my mind I'm thinking, I know, I'll get with someone more compatible. I wasn't thinking what everyone else was thinking, which was that I must have been out of my fucking mind."

Was she?

She pauses, smiles.

"I was just in a bubble. And able to be snowed. I hadn't been bitten by the snake of life yet. I grew up after that. I had to."

But not completely. After Jackson, Presley married the quirky, moody actor Nic Cage. It was a fiery pairing along the lines of Burton and Taylor, complete with frequent fights and pricey jewelry hurled into the open sea.

"Marrying him was a wild flurry, a crazy idea and being young, and 'Ahhhh!'" Presley says, chuckling, glancing at her brilliant metallic fingernails, searching for chips.

"I've gotten to the point in my life where I've chased all the crazies down," she says with conviction. "I was ready to stop the madness. At this age, I really appreciate having [a husband who is] a best friend. But you know, the other guys were fun. For a while."

Presley talks about wanting to move to New York. Her Hawaiian farm is overrun with wild pigs, trampling the vegetation, tearing up the landscape. She has a main home in Los Angeles, but she loathes it there and always has. She refuses to raise her new babies amid the "bullshit that is L.A."

"I'd love to move to London, or Connecticut," she says.

Connecticut?

"What? It's beautiful there."Presley's at work on a new album, her third since 2003's To Whom It May Concern (which went gold) and 2005's Now What — dark, brash, storytelling rock and roll in the '70s tradition. "I'd love to finish writing before they come out," she says, glancing at her belly.

Last spring she even quit smoking, cold turkey. "It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do by a long shot. I was either suicidal or homicidal."

It's all part of the Presley self-improvement plan. No cigarettes. No psychos. No whining. "I grew up with my kids a little bit. But now, it's like, phase two. I'm 100 percent ready to focus on my children."

Presley and her daughter, Riley, 19, are Gilmore-girls close. The two talk on the phone "about 16 times a day." They live and travel together, lugging their three cats along.

Riley is "past the hormones and boys nuttiness," Presley says. Now she has bigger questions about life. "When she asks me what to do, I say, 'I can tell you, based on the mistakes I've made, but I know you have to experience it yourself. I don't want to stop you by saying, Don't go down that road. But really, don't go down it.'"

Presley admits she is still learning which roads to travel herself. "I'm working hard right now on not being angry. I was chronically angry for a year and a half. I'm much better now."

Part of her fury came from the discovery that her intimate staff, people she'd employed for 15 years who were "like family, really," had been bleeding her accounts of millions in cash.

"You'd think I would have known better because of my father, right?" she says drily. "It was my fucking fault. I didn't want to deal with the business. My father was like that. He trusted that people did what they said they were doing. He just wanted to be the artist. He wanted to go off and play."

But for this Presley, it'll be different. After firing everybody, she set about learning how to manage herself, down to balancing her own checkbook.

"I'm in a happy place now," she says. "But it took a lot to get here. I wasn't always who I am now. Of course, I still have trust issues. But I'll get through that too. Eventually."

Just then, her phone rings. It's Riley. Presley takes the call. "I love you too, baby," she says, her expression softening. As she listens, she leans into the car fan, lifting her face toward the cool, refreshing air.

Allison Glock is a senior writer for ESPN magazine. Her last book was the award-winning memoir Beauty Before Comfort (Knopf). She lives in Florida with her two daughters.

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Was it this interview that IMP issued a statement that the interview published wasn't correct or something like that.. I don't know the word they use but she didn't exactly said that and was very upset.
 
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I don't know. all I know is that when I read it back then, I was just... aghast.

I hope she never meant it.
 
People tend to say horrible things when they are hurt and bitter.

But I don't condone this at all or any of her tirades against Michael. She could have kept her mouth shut and not have made any comment. I think she really wanted to hurt Michael because they probably no longer had a friendly relationship and she wanted to be friends with him.

But you have to think about it. . . if she had not been so emotionally deep into Michael, do you think she would have this much hatred for him? Yes, I say hatred because she was very spiteful. She was never really indifferent like she said she was because then why talk about him and their past. She wanted to hurt him because he hurt her and he hurt her because she hurt him. Cycle of pain and hurt.

Unfortunately for her, anything that is said publicly is always going to be on record.
 
yeah well, that blog after he was gone pretty much explained the guilt factor and the suffering but it still doesn't take away from what she did.

she made a WHOLE LOTTA enemies within his fan ranks with what she did. and those negative feelings they harbor toward her will now NEVER go away now that he's gone.
 
yeah well, that blog after he was gone pretty much explained the guilt factor and the suffering but it still doesn't take away from what she did.

she made a WHOLE LOTTA enemies within his fan ranks with what she did. and those negative feelings they harbor toward her will now NEVER go away now that he's gone.

I don't hate her, though (obviously, LOL!). I actually just feel sorry for her. I truly believe that she loved Michael with all her heart and genuinely believed that they could make their marriage work. Her guilt is palpable. Plus, if we are too believe Karen, they are helping each other heal over Michael's death. Sounds like she still cared a lot if she needs healing with a former foe of hers. I think she just realized too late that she was in over her head and took the easy way out. Just as Michael took the easy way out by turning to Debbie for babies.

But with these new tapes, Michael said that she really wanted them to get back together and that she would have his children if that's what it took. But Michael's been betrayed too many times in his life and he was less trusting of her. Plus, he was already having childen with another women, which if you choose to believe was basically just a surrogate. She'd have the babies and then give them up to him, which is exactly what happened. If he would have had children with Lisa, they would have been a true family but it would have been more problematic if they should divorce a 2nd time.

Plus, Michael's children are already some of the most sought after celebrity kids on the planet. Could you imagine a Jackson-Presley offspring and all the ruckus that would have caused with the paparazzi and tabs? I am sure LM was thinking about that in the back of her mind. Maybe even Michael had thought about it and that's what contributed to 2nd thoughts about getting back together with Lisa.
 
Poor them, Lisa wanted to show that she didn't care - which why she so sad now. She wanted to show MJ she didnt' care anymore... to hurt him somehow to show him she's indifferent - which she really claim to be. She never thought he would leave the world so soon, who knows deep down she might thought some days in the future, they might talk again. It might been years.. but they've been on and off for a long time.

I started to think may be LM love him more than he loved her... from his public interview and this last book, he seems to mentioned her name.. but not a really emotional way - I know that the interview wasn't about his love life... but the way he try to avoid answering the direct answer to the question, and divert all answer to the love of children kind of not accepting that he loved her that much or he regretted going back to her. Even sound like she regretted it and was after him.. I know he didn't want to talked about it because it was taped and he might didn't want to share it with SB, but what he half said in that interview make it looks like she was after him. If he shared that part, he should open up a little more about his part too. He's very private about his love life, he might be totally deeply in love and very emotional when he was with her... I hope she knows that.. cause otherwise, she would feel bad to hear this tapes... and even more confuse.

Someone here asked once before, that she never heard MJ said he loved Lisa.... I know that he kept that private, like in this book, he said that love is something very private and he's been raised like that.. so I don't think he'd ever need to express his feeling to public. Though, I really wish to hear bit of it... of how much he loved her.

At the moment, the only thing that seems like she played an important part in his life was.. he mostly refer to her for his wife and his divorce... and also many incident he brought up would have LMP in it. Sound like he was looking for a perfect women, which totally do not exist in this world for him.
 
I don't hate her, though (obviously, LOL!). I actually just feel sorry for her. I truly believe that she loved Michael with all her heart and genuinely believed that they could make their marriage work. Her guilt is palpable. Plus, if we are too believe Karen, they are helping each other heal over Michael's death. Sounds like she still cared a lot if she needs healing with a former foe of hers. I think she just realized too late that she was in over her head and took the easy way out. Just as Michael took the easy way out by turning to Debbie for babies.

But with these new tapes, Michael said that she really wanted them to get back together and that she would have his children if that's what it took. But Michael's been betrayed too many times in his life and he was less trusting of her. Plus, he was already having childen with another women, which if you choose to believe was basically just a surrogate. She'd have the babies and then give them up to him, which is exactly what happened. If he would have had children with Lisa, they would have been a true family but it would have been more problematic if they should divorce a 2nd time.

Plus, Michael's children are already some of the most sought after celebrity kids on the planet. Could you imagine a Jackson-Presley offspring and all the ruckus that would have caused with the paparazzi and tabs? I am sure LM was thinking about that in the back of her mind. Maybe even Michael had thought about it and that's what contributed to 2nd thoughts about getting back together with Lisa.

OMG I can only imagine! that kid would've had a difficult life. possibly even more difficult that his/her dad's! :(

no, I don't feel anything but sympathy for her. I wish her well. she's hurt someone she's loved and been hurt herself. hey, I can relate!

I ain't judging her or Mike. not my job. I feel bad for them both.
 
Poor them, Lisa wanted to show that she didn't care - which why she so sad now. She wanted to show MJ she didnt' care anymore... to hurt him somehow to show him she's indifferent - which she really claim to be. She never thought he would leave the world so soon, who knows deep down she might thought some days in the future, they might talk again. It might been years.. but they've been on and off for a long time.

I started to think may be LM love him more than he loved her... from his public interview and this last book, he seems to mentioned her name.. but not a really emotional way - I know that the interview wasn't about his love life... but the way he try to avoid answering the direct answer to the question, and divert all answer to the love of children kind of not accepting that he loved her that much or he regretted going back to her. Even sound like she regretted it and was after him.. I know he didn't want to talked about it because it was taped and he might didn't want to share it with SB, but what he half said in that interview make it looks like she was after him. If he shared that part, he should open up a little more about his part too. He's very private about his love life, he might be totally deeply in love and very emotional when he was with her... I hope she knows that.. cause otherwise, she would feel bad to hear this tapes... and even more confuse.

Someone here asked once before, that she never heard MJ said he loved Lisa.... I know that he kept that private, like in this book, he said that love is something very private and he's been raised like that.. so I don't think he'd ever need to express his feeling to public. Though, I really wish to hear bit of it... of how much he loved her.

At the moment, the only thing that seems like she played an important part in his life was.. he mostly refer to her for his wife and his divorce... and also many incident he brought up would have LMP in it. Sound like he was looking for a perfect women, which totally do not exist in this world for him.

yeah, he made it sound as if she was the only recourse IN MARRIAGE for him. like, she was the Chosen One, not because she was Lisa Marie the person, but Lisa Marie the PRESLEY. it feels as if he felt that he couldn't really MARRY someone other than her (or a McCartney daughter, as Shmuckley says, and Mike agrees). that's kinda hurtful.

I sure hope she wasn't just that to him. I don't know, maybe you're right that he kept the real stuff hidden. and that's not all there was. I sure hope so. I would think the family would know. at least, his mom and perhaps Janet.

that reminds me. do you guys know why Janet once told Oprah that she hadn't talked to Mike for two years? did it coincide by any chance with Mike and Lisa's divorce?
 
Aww, no I can never hate Lisa. I like the fact that she is very honest with everything. Even when she was bashing about Michael that was honestly how she felt. I can totally see why she felt used and I can totally see why Michael was hurt. I personally think these two never spoke to each other about how they really felt. Like I said before, Michael probably never told lisa that it bothered him when she said he wasn't the father to her kids, she should have said SECOND father. And it probably devastated Lisa when he had kids with another women, 3 times!

In the tapes Michael didn't really want to talk about Lisa because, IMO, he was still very hurt. And Lisa spoke about him later BECAUSE she WAS hurt. It was totally different reactions. But also imo, if michael would have been indifferent towards Lisa he would have had no problems talking about her the way he spoke about brooke etc. And if Lisa was truly indifferent she would have had no problems talking about him normally either. They were BOTH hurt, and they BOTH still cared. And like someone said before, it almost seems like Lisa loved Michael more, but that can also be because michael was very private qbout his love life.
 
and i dont think Michael "not" love Lisa. I honestly think he ADORED her for her. It doesn't seem like michael... I think the fact that her last name was presley was a plus sign, the way a guy with a job is a plus sign for normal people.

and yes, a jackson/presley kid would have had it hard...but it would have been AWESOME! lol can you imagine? The kid has Royalty from both sides of his/hers family
 
and i dont think Michael "not" love Lisa. I honestly think he ADORED her for her. It doesn't seem like michael... I think the fact that her last name was presley was a plus sign, the way a guy with a job is a plus sign for normal people.

and yes, a jackson/presley kid would have had it hard...but it would have been AWESOME! lol can you imagine? The kid has Royalty from both sides of his/hers family
 
and i dont think Michael "not" love Lisa. I honestly think he ADORED her for her. It doesn't seem like michael... I think the fact that her last name was presley was a plus sign, the way a guy with a job is a plus sign for normal people.

and yes, a jackson/presley kid would have had it hard...but it would have been AWESOME! lol can you imagine? The kid has Royalty from both sides of his/hers family

Yeah, kind of like Shiloh Jolie-Pitt. She gets the most attention and everyone wants to know about her.

But if Lisa and Mike had a kid. . . then that child would have been the focus of all the attention, which would have taken away from P&P, Riley and Ben.
 
Yeah, kind of like Shiloh Jolie-Pitt. She gets the most attention and everyone wants to know about her.

But if Lisa and Mike had a kid. . . then that child would have been the focus of all the attention, which would have taken away from P&P, Riley and Ben.

yea, but it still would have been cool! but now that i think about it...Remember when shiloh was born? it was hectic! Everyone wanted her picture etc. A presley and a Jackson would have caused way more commotion. Heck, PRINCE cause commotion and his mom was no one important, She wasn't an actress or a singer. She was a normal person.

No a guy with lots of money is a plus sign lol....jk

That is actually what i meant but i didn't want to put it like that lol =D
 
Considering he is a very passionate and emotional guy, I really expect him to be like that when it comes to LOVE too. I think he was, otherwise, Lisa wouldn't fell for him that bad, even obsessed with him for a long time. The "good in bed" part, I don't know if it's true but prefer to believe it.. (I wonder why Lisa's friend would give that information to Randy anyway... if she did, Lisa should have hate her? Or Michael would had been so mad too.. he's very private and didn't even want to reply to DS that he had sex with his wife... from what he sit quiet and Lisa answered that question). I think he loved Lisa so much, otherwise, I don't think Lisa would love him as much too? What do you think? I don't think Lisa is the type that would run after MJ, if she didn't really fell for him... not his Money and not Jackson name... but pure love for the man - who he was.



Aww, no I can never hate Lisa. I like the fact that she is very honest with everything. Even when she was bashing about Michael that was honestly how she felt. I can totally see why she felt used and I can totally see why Michael was hurt. I personally think these two never spoke to each other about how they really felt. Like I said before, Michael probably never told lisa that it bothered him when she said he wasn't the father to her kids, she should have said SECOND father. And it probably devastated Lisa when he had kids with another women, 3 times!

In the tapes Michael didn't really want to talk about Lisa because, IMO, he was still very hurt. And Lisa spoke about him later BECAUSE she WAS hurt. It was totally different reactions. But also imo, if michael would have been indifferent towards Lisa he would have had no problems talking about her the way he spoke about brooke etc. And if Lisa was truly indifferent she would have had no problems talking about him normally either. They were BOTH hurt, and they BOTH still cared. And like someone said before, it almost seems like Lisa loved Michael more, but that can also be because michael was very private qbout his love life.

I agree, he didn't said out loud that he acted indifferent or he's hurt, but they way he talked about her.. I kept distance? Why wouldn't he just said, yes I loved her so much... he could even use the word "lovED", to express he did... not now.. but he didn't. He didn't want to show his feeling, why would he, she was bashing him.

I think they did talk a lot during those year right after divorce, many topics, but he did hide some, like the part that he was hurt that she was territorial with her kids... may be.

Again, I'm dying to know when the last talk....
 
but these tapes were made in 1999-2000, right? she wasn't really bashing him then, was she? I think he was still hoping for a reconciliation at this time. it's just something in his words, the way he says them that tells me that. I think he still had hope. he was mulling over everything he did that had pushed her away (the hardheartedness and all the rest of the stuff etc) at one time... he says she was sweet... that she loved going with him to the orphanages... it was almost as if he was telling himself about the good things that were there... the fact that she wanted to come back.

he didn't say I don't want her back. he spoke in the past tense in terms of how his heart had turned cold. not in terms of the present.

and you guys are right... he avoided the word "love" with her totally. that IS significant. usually when something means a lot, and you're as private a person as he was, you keep it hidden.
 
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Yeah, you're right. The word "Love" was way to important to use for Lisa in discussion with other people for him. I hope he did express his love to LMP, and also let he know how he felt during those years... not keeping it to himself.

May be you are right, actually in the book, he sound pretty much like the interview he did with LIFE? or the other one in 1999 that he mentioned LMP?
 
yeah, it's like he sounded hopeful but cautious? almost as if he was being careful.

remember that "Shh!" in the Life interview? it was almost as if he was dropping a subtle hint but trying not to be too obvious in it.

here, though, he sounded a bit depressed even. you've read the book, right, CTU? I haven't yet. I've just read your posts etc. so I'm just going on that. but it seemed to me that he sounded a little down, maybe a little introspective. I think he was right on the edge of having a change of heart about the whole thing. and then something happened. I'd like to know wth happened that was so horrible that all of a sudden she starts bashing him so bad and he pulls back and has Blanket with yet another woman.

something must have gone horribly wrong between 2001 and 2003. :(
 
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