When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[dearmichael1]

He didn't mention much amout LMP in that? I think he kept all his real love private, that's it. He only did say about Lisa in a happy was he did in those interview in 1999, he preferred not to say anything bad or discuss his relationship to the public. I wish there'd be more about Lisa in that The Michael Jackson Tapes but if not, it's mean he kept it private and she meant a lot to him.

I've heard there is more about Lisa. And you said if not , its means he kept it private. But he did. I dont think these tapes were meant for the public to hear. If they were meant as a guide to write a book Together , MJ and Rabbi, I think MJ would have had a final say as to what was written. I think Mike was just letting things out.

 

[#1MJstan]

Wow that seriously had to hurt MJ.. She knew that he wanted kids, and if she didn't want to have his kids, she should've never gotten married... He could've called me I was of legal age during the time they were married..lol

 

[CTU]

Oh I got the book, can I share it here? If not I will delete my post.

I haven't start reading yet. only this one bit:

Previous Q: He thought that women were after his brothers' money, he won't get married, he stayed at home until 27 - 28.

Q: so was part of the attraction to LMP that she had her own money and her own fame and you didn't have ot be anxious that she was interested in you for the wrong reason?

A: Absolutely, and she didn't take a penny (when we got divorced). She didn't want anything. She makes about a million dollars a year from Elvis memorabilia and selling all that stuff and she has her own thing. She is not here ot take, you know.

I thought someone said that she got 10% out of his History Album?

Q: Do you still stay in touch with the children?
A: yes and with her

When was that interview?

As someone said that LMP spent a lot of time with Katherine and trying to get back with MJ but he didn't want to.... I guessed one day LMP just had enough and wished to move on.. and start bashing her. That seems to be after this interview MJ had. Now I start to think that LMP suppose to be more sad than MJ now that he's gone. Let me read this, if the part where she tried to get back with him and he denied it is true... I think she is the one who really bashed him because she was hurt and still is. MJ was hurt but he made his decision... am sure he was heart broken when she had her twin.. may be she got back at him finally.. but didn't know her own heart until the day he died.

 

[HIStory]

I've heard there is more about Lisa. And you said if not , its means he kept it private. But he did. I dont think these tapes were meant for the public to hear. If they were meant as a guide to write a book Together , MJ and Rabbi, I think MJ would have had a final say as to what was written. I think Mike was just letting things out.

I agree. Just like there isn't everything written in his autobiography "Moonwalk" that he said on tape at the time.

 

[HIStory]

Oh I got the book, can I share it here? If not I will delete my post.

I haven't start reading yet. only this one bit:

Previous Q: He thought that women were after his brothers' money, he won't get married, he stayed at home until 27 - 28.

Q: so was part of the attraction to LMP that she had her own money and her own fame and you didn't have ot be anxious that she was interested in you for the wrong reason?

A: Absolutely, and she didn't take a penny (when we got divorced). She didn't want anything. She makes about a million dollars a year from Elvis memorabilia and selling all that stuff and she has her own thing. She is not here ot take, you know.

I thought someone said that she got 10% out of his History Album?

Why would she? I never believed she took anything from Michael. She didn't need that and she is prouder than that. I'm glad Michael confirmed this.

 

[indranee]

I don't think she didn't want to have kids with him at all. She just wasn't sure of the stability of their relationship yet. Plus, if we can believe her blog, she wanted Michael get off his "self-destructive" habits (whatever they were) first. Michael couldn't understand that and IMO he decided in his heart that means she doesn't love him and his heart turned cold to her.

you know, this kind of explains that whole "Lisa coming into the studio and sitting there waiting for Michael to talk to her while he is silent then she leaves" bit. he didn't want to talk to her. I mean, what is there for him to talk about? she didn't want to have children with him, she'd made that pretty clear. so she'd betrayed him and their love.

I can see where his thoughts were at. poor Mike. it makes total sense. I also hope Lisa doesn't take it too hard. what's done is done. it cannot be undone now that he's gone.

 

[indranee]

Let me read this, if the part where she tried to get back with him and he denied it is true... I think she is the one who really bashed him because she was hurt and still is. MJ was hurt but he made his decision... am sure he was heart broken when she had her twin.. may be she got back at him finally.. but didn't know her own heart until the day he died.

you might have hit the nail on the head there, CTU. I think you're absolutely right. she didn't realize how much love they'd had together and how badly she'd betrayed him until he was gone. hence the blog. apparently, the family reassured Lisa again and again during the funeral that SHE was the woman in Mike's heart. I think they knew that she needed to hear it.

I feel bad for both of them. Mike's above it now. so I feel Lisa's pain even more now than ever before.

 

[Lainy]

I always thought that Michael and Lisa were a beautiful couple!
But I think what happened was for the good of both!
I hope that at some point in his life, Michael has found true love ...

Always twisted for him to find someone special and sensitive not only to love Michael Jackson, but Mike, father and humanitarian. :wub:

 

[indranee]

well, it was obviously not for the good of MJ!

think about it. if Lisa and Michael had had kids back then... say, 1996 or 1997... there would probably not have been a trial. Michael would have had his own babies to play with and bring up (just like he did with Prince and Paris), but Lisa would never allow that bastard Bashir to do what he did. even if he did interview Michael, it would have been of Michael the father and husband to Lisa Marie Presley.

not only that, he probably would not have been gone now. he'd have done a couple of benefit concerts and put out an album in 2009, not looking to Propofol to help him sleep.

I'm sorry, and this is JUST MY OPINION, but Michael's ENTIRE LIFE would have been different had Lisa Marie had his kids.

of course, no one knows what would have happened, but safe to say, Michael's life would have not been the same.

 

[dori727]

well, it was obviously not for the good of MJ!

think about it. if Lisa and Michael had had kids back then... say, 1996 or 1997... there would probably not have been a trial. Michael would have had his own babies to play with and bring up (just like he did with Prince and Paris), but Lisa would never allow that bastard Bashir to do what he did. even if he did interview Michael, it would have been of Michael the father and husband to Lisa Marie Presley.

not only that, he probably would not have been gone now. he'd have done a couple of benefit concerts and put out an album in 2009, not looking to Propofol to help him sleep.

I'm sorry, and this is JUST MY OPINION, but Michael's ENTIRE LIFE would have been different had Lisa Marie had his kids.

of course, no one knows what would have happened, but safe to say, Michael's life would have not been the same.

I COMPLETELY agree! That was like the pinnacle turning point in Michael and Lisa's life. Sort of like what you see in movies, where you have two futures, two paths and its up to you to pick one. The bashir interview would have been TOTALLY different, especially considering the fact that the interview made michael look almost entirely lonely. With Lisa there he would have not been lonely, and hopefully they would have had kids by this time. And like you said indranee, if they would have been together the interview would have shown michael as Lisa;s husband etc. I doubt the trials would have happened and if they would have happened Michael would have had someone there supporting him and helping him get through it. This has been mentioned already, but we all know that michaels dream was to get married and have kids with someone he really loved. Someone who wouldn't take advantage of him like he said in the tapes. So michael as a married men would have not been so depressed less, would he have been taking any drugs etc. I honestly think that during his relationship with Lisa he didn't take any drugs at all. It seems as the two pinnacle points when MJ took drugs was during both allegations. Other then that he seemed fine. Again, this was all based on MY opinion.

 

[indranee]

dori, agreed. I also believe that Mike's insomnia began (and got worse) during and after the trial. it haunted him and stole his sleep. forever.

my heart weeps to know what he must have gone through. still, I cannot blame Lisa for not being able to be there, but knowing what we know now, she tried to be back in his life, but Mike was stubborn and once burnt twice shy.

we don't have hindsight... we don't know that that one choice... ONE choice... we make in our lives can make ALL the difference. that was their one choice. and they made it.

PS. and guys, I don't have the swine flu, but just the flu lol. was sick as a puppy last night... feeling better now.

 

[HIStory]

dori, agreed. I also believe that Mike's insomnia began (and got worse) during and after the trial. it haunted him and stole his sleep. forever.

I don't know, I have heard he was always kind of insomniac. It's even mentioned in the movie: "Jacksons: An American Dream" which was made in 1992. Towards the end, the adult, Thriller era Michael complains to Katherine that he cannot sleep, he always has songs in his head, he creates constantly. I have re-watched it about three weeks ago on YouTube and it was chilling to hear that part. I didn't remember this because when I saw it first many, many years ago it didn't seem to be that important. In the hindsight however it's chilling.

 

[indranee]

respect I agree he was always that. but if I look at my own situation I can sort of extrapolate to his. I have always had a hard time sleeping. I don't LIKE to sleep actually. even when I was a little kid, my mom would have to fight to get me to bed. she'd give me a book and I'd read it and at some point drop off. I'm a writer IRL so I always do my most creative work around 2am-6am so it kind of works out in that way and I never really thought of the insomnia as a "problem" you know?

but back in 2003-2005, I had a particularly difficult period in my life with a lot of problems crashing down around me. it was THEN that I realized that I was an insomniac. it was not that I couldn't sleep, it was that I had troubled sleep and feelings of complete doom. I felt completely alone and completely fractured. my life felt as if it was adrift with no shore in sight. and sleeping was not in any way a panacea because then I'd have these dreams that were far, far worse than just being awake. this is why I can understand (not necessarily condone or accept) Mike's use of Propofol. I don't know exactly what it gives, but it must have given him some other feeling that just normal sleep even while it was playing havoc with his body.

 

[dori727]

I can also relate indranee because the same thing have happens to me. I have NEVER once, and you can ask my mom, have I ever fallen asleep before 10 pm. My bed time when I was in the 4th grade was midnight. I HATED IT! it was like a punishment to go to sleep. I also play the piano and went to a magnet school for it, I prefer to practice and play at 1, 2 in the morning. My mind is most active at this time. Also, I can be EXTREMELY tired and I still won't be able to go to sleep early. It just happens, I can't help it.

but there are nights in where you will get desperate. For example, my junior year of high school I grew desperate for sleep because for 4 to 5 nights straight i didn't get any sleep. my mom gave me advil pm and it totally worked. The next day she gave it to me again and it worked again. By the third night i was pleading for it. see, when i was lacking so much sleep I was grumpy all the time and always falling asleep everywhere. So when i started taking the pills i felt rejuvenated and happy. My mom realized that quickly i was getting sort of addicted and it had only been 3 to 4 days that i had been taking the pills. She made me stop taking them and I thank her for it. So I totally understand and can't blame michael for being so desperate that he would turn to drugs like protofol. Not being able to sleep for days is one of the most torturous things i have had to endure. It is really annoying to be tired and not being able to go to sleep. I quickly got addicted and it had only been a few days, and thank god i had someone like my mom to stop me before it was too late. So, i totally understand.

So with someone like Lisa there I personally think she could have prevented all this. IMO She could have stopped it in time the way my mom stopped it for me.

 

[micaro7]

well, it was obviously not for the good of MJ!

think about it. if Lisa and Michael had had kids back then... say, 1996 or 1997... there would probably not have been a trial. Michael would have had his own babies to play with and bring up (just like he did with Prince and Paris), but Lisa would never allow that bastard Bashir to do what he did. even if he did interview Michael, it would have been of Michael the father and husband to Lisa Marie Presley.

not only that, he probably would not have been gone now. he'd have done a couple of benefit concerts and put out an album in 2009, not looking to Propofol to help him sleep.

I'm sorry, and this is JUST MY OPINION, but Michael's ENTIRE LIFE would have been different had Lisa Marie had his kids.

of course, no one knows what would have happened, but safe to say, Michael's life would have not been the same.

or they could have had kids, then broke up and had a huge custody battle.
You really think LM would have given up her kids to live full-time with MJ
How do you think MJ would have coped with that situation???
They couldnt even make it 2 years, what makes you think they would have still been married in 03 or 05 to alter the events of his life.

 

[indranee]

sure, but one of the main reasons they broke up was the fact that Lisa told him they'd have kids and then reneged on the deal, so to speak. it's in Michael's own voice. no point denying it. the "betrayal" was a huge issue to Michael.

like I said, no one knows, but it's safe to say this was one of the pivotal choices they made. the fork in the road. Michael's life changed from then on.

dori, yeah, agreed on the addiction thing I'm so glad you're okay!! I still have to fight the tendency to not go to bed or sleep. but the way I feel the next day usually makes me! I just wish Mike didn't have to do these 50 concerts. IMO it made him fall back on the Propofol in order to keep up the next day.

 

[abbena]

I don't have the book. I have heard from others this is what in the book about LMP. I don't know if there's anything else.

There are not a lot details about Lisa but more than other people he talked in the tape. But Shmuley did say Michael always spoke with affection and respect for Lisa Maire except she pushed him to Scientology, and MJ often compared himself to Elvis ( my formal father in Law) , not much detail too.

According to the tape, MJ said he is not easy to live with in that way for a wife. He said he doesn't know whether he is disciplined enough because he is such a rolling stone and always on the move. Lise told him she felt like she is a piece of furniture...

When he talked about Lisa's second thoughts about writing letters saying," I'll give you nine children. I'll do whatever you want" and she just tried for months and months but MJ just became too hard-hearted at that point and closed his mind on the whole situation. He did not say whether he is regret. But we all know he wrote a song " don't walk away" in his latest album.

 

[CTU]

I agree with you but we have to remember that this conversation was only part of the reality between them. There are so many more stories and in depth, that we don't know. From what I read, I think he was having his own problem all along, he realised that he isn't easy to live with.. not a type to have a wife. The major thing of their marriage was he wants kids, she promised him to start working on it right away and she changed her mind. He was so disappointed and just couldn't live with that.. I guess at the end he got Debbie pregnant and regret that it broke his relationship with Lisa. He loved her, no matter she didn't want to have children, it's one thing that the keep fighting but didn't mean they didn't love each other.

After divorce, she hang out with his mom all the time, and wrote him letters fighting to get him back. This book just confirmed that it was him why they didn't get back together, I think he loved her so much but again his trust issue. I don't know when he wrote "Don't walk away", if he wrote that around 1999 or after he divorced Debbie, may be he was still in relationship with her, she tried to get back with him, he hesitate.. then one day Lisa decided to move on. The song even say even I know I have to let you go.... Or he even wrote it when they got divorced, he wanted to keep her with him, but... he got Debbie starting working on the baby already... I know people said Debbie got pregnant after.. but MJ said to Lisa that Debbie will do it for him.. I think that was the major issue for their divorce. MJ might actually changed his mind and wanted Lisa to stay, but that was too late.

The part that said Lisa spent a lot of time with his mom, reflect the hug they had at the burial.... I think Katherine really knows that Lisa love MJ so much and it didn't work out. They actually understand Lisa for all the bashing she did, I guess.

There are not a lot details about Lisa but more than other people he talked in the tape. But Shmuley did say Michael always spoke with affection and respect for Lisa Maire except she pushed him to Scientology, and MJ often compared himself to Elvis ( my formal father in Law) , not much detail too.

According to the tape, MJ said he is not easy to live with in that way for a wife. He said he doesn't know whether he is disciplined enough because he is such a rolling stone and always on the move. Lise told him she felt like she is a piece of furniture...

When he talked about Lisa's second thoughts about writing letters saying," I'll give you nine children. I'll do whatever you want" and she just tried for months and months but MJ just became too hard-hearted at that point and closed his mind on the whole situation. He did not say whether he is regret. But we all know he wrote a song " don't walk away" in his latest album.

 

[CTU]

Women and Trust - Lisa Marie Presley and His Brothers' Wives

SB: Do you think a lot of their wives were more interested in their success than in them?
MJ: Absolutely. They were after their money. That's why i said to myself that I would never be married. I held out the longest. I stayed at home until I was 27-28.

SB: So was aprt of the attraction to LMP that she had her own money and her own fame and you didn't have to be anxious that she was intersted in your for the wrong reason?
MJ: Absolutely, and she didn't take a penny (when we got divorced). She didn't want anything. She makes about a million dollars a year from Elvis memorabilia and selling all that stuff and she has her own thing. She is not here to take, you know.

MJ always spoke with affection and respoect for LMP, with the one exception when he told me that she had wanted him to get involved with Scientology and got pushy.

SB: So that means there was alomst like one girl in the whole world that you could marry because even a rich woman would want your name. You needed someone with money and a name. You were down to a Presley or a McCartney or something like that.
MJ: I know. Lisa was great. She was a sweet person. But it is hard to tie me down. I can't stay in one place one time so that's why I don't know if I (can) really be completelyl married all the time.

SB: Did you want to be a father to her kids?
MJ: Yes

SB: Do you still stay in touch with the children?
MJ: Yes, and with her.

SB: But marriage is too confirming?
MJ: Yes. I don't konw whether I am disciplined enough because I am such a rolling stone. I have such a life when I am always on the move and women don't like that. They want you to be settled in one place all the time but I have to move. I have been in the same city as where my house is and I'll check into a hotel just ot feel like I am going somewhere. My house is right there. I guess I am just moving all the time, moving.

At the entrance to Michael's home in Neverland, there were large suitcases that were permanently packed and always ready to go. In the same way that some people buy two of everything - one for the primary home and one for the weekend home - michael had a version of that, only the spare things were permantly in the suitcases. He explained to me that he travels so much taht he doesn't see the point in ever packing or unpacking. The things in the suitcases never came out.

 

[indranee]

CTU, thanks for posting that and for your post above that. this is making a lot of sense now. all the bashing that Lisa did over the years. I remember reading the Marie Claire interview and being aghast. then the DS and Oprah interviews before that and thinking how COULD she? it all makes sense now. it must have been very hard for her.

abbena -- "I'll give you nine children, I'll do whatever you want"... she wrote that to Michael? where's that from? is that in the book?

anyway, two significant lines from Don't Walk Away:

All my dreams been broken
I don’t know where we’re going
Everything we said and all we done now
Don’t let go, I don’t wanna walk away

it's almost as if he's talking to himself as well as her.

I feel very, very sad for them both.

 

[swirl0]

He talked quite a bit about LMP. He said she promised him to have kids right away but she didn't and he was very desperate about that and cried a lot. He said after the divorce Lisa stayed in Katherine's house a lot and she changed her mind and wrote letters to him saying she would have his kids, whatever he wants but by then his heart turned cold to her. He also talked about that when they were married they mainly lived in Lisa's house in LA and they spent the weekends in Neverland.

It seems like not having his kids was the ultimate turn off for Michael about Lisa and his love for her died because of that. I can imagine how he felt when he heard the news about LMP having kids with another guy, while she didn't want to have his.

Okay... you said his love for Lisa died. How come he was upset about Lisa married Nic Cages?

 

[elmari]

I went to Barnes and Noble today to read the parts about Lisa and I concur with everything that was said here so far.

It seemed that Michael had deep, deep issues about women in general. He thought the majority of women were manipulative and used their bodies to control men. It seems like he loved women who were classy, subtle, gentle, and compassionate. But then he also said that he could never ask a woman out. . . so obviously that girl would need to be a little bit aggressive.

So just think. . . Lisa promises to give him children. Michael takes the plunge to get married and he actually thought he would never get married! Then Lisa changes her mind. He's like, WTF?! And I think that is why he didn't give them a 2nd chance. She burned him once and wasn't about to let her do it again.

But Mike and Lisa also had problems about children in general, not just having children. He said Lisa was territorial about her kids and would put them above other children and all else(which I think is natural). He wanted to treat all children equally. Even when he had his own children, he treated them equally with children who were visiting.

Mike wanted Lisa, him and her kids to be one big family. But I think Mike was bothered that Danny Keogh was still in the picture. He called him 'that keogh guy'. He wanted to be a father to Lisa's kids, but that she had said on TV that the children already had a father.

He did like that Lisa was compassionate to other children and to those in need. He talked a lot about that.

He did not talk about Debbie, only in reference to that he had 'two painful divorces'.

Michael also said that he respects the notion that opposites attract, but he really wanted to find somebody more like him.

Oh yah, Schmuley clearly states that he thinks that Elvis is bigger than Michael in the book.

BTW, don't buy the book if you can help yourself. You can read it at the bookstore. I spent a couple hours reading it. I feel like Schmuley totally leads Michael in these conversations and sometimes he talks a lot more than Michael. There are whole paragraphs of Schmuley talking followed by one line comments by Michael. I thought that was weird.

 

[CTU]

Loneliness, Wanting Children, and LMP's second thoughts

MJ: Like lonely for like a wife? For liek a mate? Like that?
SB: Yeah

MJ: I"ve been through two bad divorces adn I just got out of the second one. Even when married to those women that I was married to, I'd go to bed hurting. I was hurting. I was crying last night as I went to sleep and I didn't sleep good last night. And I cry, Shmuley, because I feel this... and I'm not trying, I'm telling you the honest truth and if you don't believe me you can ask Frank. I just was feeling all the pain of the children who suffer and I was hurting so much ....................

SB: But have you givin up on women understanding you? You tend to think that children will understand you a lot better?
MJ: I'm not easy to live with in that way for a wife. I'm not easy adn I know I"m not easy. Because I give all my time to someone else. I give it to children, I give it to somebody sick somewhere, to the music. And women want to be the center. And I remember LM would always say to me, "I'm not a piece of furniture, I'm not a piece of furniture. You just can't... " I say, "I don't want you to be a piece of furniture," and, you know, there'd be some sick little girls calling on teh phone and she'd get mad and hang up on them. And you know, I feel that's my , that's my mission, Shmuley. I have to do it.

SB: What if you found a women who was that soft who was incredibly soft?
MJ: Like a mother Teresa or Lady Diana or... that woudl be great. It woudl be perfect.

SB: Would that be better than having to do it on your own?
MJ: Absolutely, and Lisa was great with going to hospitals with me, and she was so sweet about that. ......

...
...

SB: LM was good about at least visiting. So she had no problem going and doing some of teh compassionate things of giving this children love and making them free special?
MJ: She had no problem doing that but her and I had several big arguments cause she's very territorial with her children. Her children were (her major concern)... and I said, "No, all children are our children," and she never liked that coming from me. She was very agnry about that. Plus, she had a fight with me one time when two little boys in london killked this other kid and I was going to visit them..................she said you idiot, you're just rewarding them for what they did". ................

SB: Did she wan you to be a father to her children?
MJ: Well that was once asked of her. She was asked that question on TV and she said, "No, they have a father. Their father is Keogh," that other guy. But I was really good to her children. Everyday I'd bring them home something and they'd be waiting by the window for me and hug me. I love them. I miss them so much.

SB: Did she get used to living in Neverland or was it too isolated?
MJ: Lisa didn't live at Neverland. We visited Neverland the way. I lived at her house in the city and every once in a while we visited Neverland. It'd be liek oru big fun weekend.

SB: And her children liked it?
MJ: Are you kidding me? They were like in heaven

...
..

MJ: I wanted children adn she didn't
SB: She felt she had her kids.
MJ: Yeah, and she promised me that before we married, that woudl be the first thing we'd do was have children. So I was broken-heared adn I walked aorund all the time holding these little baby dolls and I'd be crying, that's how badly I wanted them. So I was determined to have children. It disappointed me that she wouldn't keep her promise to me, you know? After we got divorced she woudl hang out with my mother all the time. I have all these letters saying, "I'll give you 9 children. I'll do whatever you want," and of course the press don't know all these stories and she just tried for months and months and I just became too hard-hearted at that point. I closed my mind on the whole situation.

SB: So she tought maybe you could get back together?
MJ: Uh huh.

SB: But children were a major, major issue?
MJ: of course.

SB: She had the kids and that was it.
MJ: She had hers and I wanted us to feel like we all were one big family and have more. Just.. my dream is to have 9 or 10 children, that's what I want.

SB: Is it possible Michael, that you're attracting the wrong kid of girl because of your celebrity?
MJ: It's hard. That's why it's hard, it's hard for me. It is hard. It's not easy for celebrities to be married.

SB: Do you tink that you could only really marry celebrities so that they don't need you as muc?
MJ: That helps, in my opinion. And they understand what you go through. They've been there.

SB: They help you for the right reason, then?
MJ: Yeah, they're not after, you know? What you've made (the money) or, you know? (singing) "That's what you are..."

 

[indranee]

I don't think they ever stopped loving each other, but being hurt can turn the love into something much less uplifting. then it becomes almost self-destructive. I think that's what respect was talking about. I doubt Michael ever really stopped loving Lisa Marie.

 

[elmari]

abbena -- "I'll give you nine children, I'll do whatever you want"... she wrote that to Michael? where's that from? is that in the book?

That's in the book. That was Michael's direct quote. He said it was from a letter that she wrote to him.

 

[Memefan]

you might have hit the nail on the head there, CTU. I think you're absolutely right. she didn't realize how much love they'd had together and how badly she'd betrayed him until he was gone. hence the blog. apparently, the family reassured Lisa again and again during the funeral that SHE was the woman in Mike's heart. I think they knew that she needed to hear it.

I feel bad for both of them. Mike's above it now. so I feel Lisa's pain even more now than ever before.

Please provide a source. thank you.

Regarding what MJ said about LMP, I hope there won't be a repeat of the "Elvis had plastic surgery on his nose" episode.

 

[lovelymj]

Wow, why would Michael tell this dude all this stuff?! Unbelievable.....

 

[indranee]

Please provide a source. thank you.[/QUOTE

I am not sure where I read it but I think it may have been in Karen's Facebook page. also, I'd look earlier in this thread as well, if I were you.

elmari, thanks... and thanks to both you and CTU for typing all of that up! I might go to B&N tomorrow and take a look.

 

[CTU]

Guys, what do you think... I think my hard starts to hurt if this getting longer...

I think I love Lisa even more when I read this, she really love him. He's really hard to understand, he had his issuesssss, trust, children, what he expect from a women. but I'm glad at least he knows that he's difficult to be with.. not a type for a husband. He knew that part of the relationship didn't work was because of him, not only because of Lisa didn't want to have children.

Imagine yourself spending time with your ex mother in law, writing those letters... she was so deeply in love with him, no matter what he'd done to her.. getting Debbie pregnant.. she desperately want to get back with him. Until one day that she kind of gave up.. and tried to move on. I wonder if she actually success with that with Lockwood. From my opinion, I think deep down both LMP and Lockwood know that their love wasn't the one that could fulfil her. So sad.

All my dreams been broken (His dream of having children??)
I don’t know where we’re going
Everything we said and all we done now
Don’t let go, I don’t wanna walk away
(Even he was so hurt by the fact that Lisa didn't want to have children, he still loved her.. he didn't want her to leave. I don't know that he wrote that when they got divorce or when they stop their relationship before 2000??)

I think I understand Lisa about her kids, they are her kids and they are not the same as other kids around the world. I think MJ has to find that in Mother Teresa.. I think MJ also hurt by LMP answer about adopting her kids... when she said in the interview. Again, her kids were still very much involve with their dad... and the sound he said about their dad.. was a bit bitter?? he mentioned.. the other guy. hahaha.

I think Lisa is a normal nice sweet girl.. from what MJ said too. But MJ is not normal, his love for children is about to be a saint.. his issues are way to far to adjust to live with. His movement, he move all the time.. I think at least he sound like he knows that he wasn't easy to live with. That may be one of the reason he didn't get back with LMP. Not only the baby issue, but many other issue that he knows it's not gonna work. He's the center of the universe, he knew that.. and he couldn't make LMP rotate around him and he knew it. I actually couldn't believe that a person like LMP would wrote those letter begging him. She really loves him, she actually saw through him.. through all those weird life he has.. his plastic surgery, his skin thing, even after what's she's been through during the marriage and after divorce... she still want him back.

Now, I start to think, may be she loved him more than he loved her. He even said in the book that he doesn't need that kind of love, he's okay with his life with his love for children. Like LMP said, he loved her as much as he could love someone. : ( But for her she loves him... and she doesn't have other kind of love that would beat the love for her man. He loved her very much, but that kind of love isn't something he can live without, but he couldn't live without love for children. I think he spent the last 10 years kind of not so sad that Lisa was bashing him.. hahah he understood her..

 

[indranee]

CTU yeah I think what she said (he loved me as much as he could love someone -- although remember that line was kinda put in her mouth in the interview) makes more sense. she definitely loved him enough to be obsessed with him for years.

"that other guy" lol. Mike was jealous as all get out lol..

okay, I'm gonna stop talking about this... I think maybe we all should be more careful. I know this book is out and all and part of me hates Shmuley for doing what he did... it's just that it feels so invasive of LMP's privacy now as well... no? it feels a bit too much.