When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[elmari]

OK, I am sort of confused about Madonna. I know this is not the place to talk about it, so perhaps someone can PM me. They had a falling out? I thought their dates were just for PR and that they hooked up because Michael wanted to collaborate with her. Now, these tapes are giving us the impression that it might have been more than just a working relationship/friendship.

I'm just confused! I can't keep up with all of Michael's secret women!

 

[TialovesMJ]

I thought Michael said that Brooke was "ONE of the loves of his life" not THE love of his life???

Yeah thats what i heard too. I think Diana Ross was another woman that MJ Loved.

 

[mandy543]

This is what he said about Brooke:

Michael Jackson: That was one of the loves of my life. I think she loved me as much as I loved her, you know? We dated a lot. We, we went out a lot. Her pictures were all over my wall, my mirror, everything. And I went to the Academy Awards with Diana Ross and this girl walks up to me and says "Hi, I'm Brooke Shields." Then she goes "Are you going to the after-party?" I go, "Yeah." "Good, I'll see you at the party." I'm going "Oh my God, does she know she's all over my room?" So we go the after-party. She comes up to me she goes, "Will you dance with me?" I went, "Yes. I will dance with you." Man, we exchanged numbers and I was up all night, singing, spinning around my room, just so happy. It was great.

You can read the rest here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32987303/ns/dateline_nbc-newsmakers/page/5/

 

[elmari]

This is what he said about Brooke:

Michael Jackson: That was one of the loves of my life. I think she loved me as much as I loved her, you know? We dated a lot. We, we went out a lot. Her pictures were all over my wall, my mirror, everything. And I went to the Academy Awards with Diana Ross and this girl walks up to me and says "Hi, I'm Brooke Shields." Then she goes "Are you going to the after-party?" I go, "Yeah." "Good, I'll see you at the party." I'm going "Oh my God, does she know she's all over my room?" So we go the after-party. She comes up to me she goes, "Will you dance with me?" I went, "Yes. I will dance with you." Man, we exchanged numbers and I was up all night, singing, spinning around my room, just so happy. It was great.

You can read the rest here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32987303/ns/dateline_nbc-newsmakers/page/5/

Aww. . . how adorable was MJ! He went to the Oscars with Diana in 1981, I think. So he was 23 years old when he met Brooke? Brooke is 44 yo now, so that would make her 6/7 years younger than MJ. Didn't she say that she met when she was 13 yo?

Anyways, I thought that's just so cute. Sort of like puppy love cuz it sounds like he had this boyish crush on her and had her posters on the walls of his room.

 

[dori727]

Agree Elmari, he also said in the Bret Ratner interview that he had posters of Brooke all over his room. He had a huge platonic crush on her at the beginning and that later turned into an actual relationship.

 

[micaro7]

Yeah, we don't know the nature of their relationship from 1996-1999. But I'd say from these pictures taken in 1998, they still looked like they had a romantic connection:

These pictures (post-divorce) is all I need to know that there was still something there.

Also, by Lisa saying that she was 'obsessed' over him for a few years after the divorce says to me that there was still a lot of feelings still there. As for Michael, the Life cover story of him and Prince is all I have to go on that he still had feelings for Lisa after the divorce.

Anyways, Lisa could have dated other men from during this time, but that doesn't mean she wasn't still in love with Michael. People date other people to try to move on, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. One thing or another was preventing these two from having a second chance and unfortunately, i don't think they ever got that 2nd chance.

Part of me feels that Michael had moved on a long time before Lisa. But that doesn't mean he ever stopped loving her. Just means that he knew that they weren't compatible. I think Lisa finally moved on from Michael when she married Lockwood and had the babies. But with Michael's death, she's forced to come to terms with unfinished business with Michael that is most likely going to stay that way for the rest of her life.

The pictures indicate excatly what people want to project on them....
I love how people pick and choose what they want to believe...especially when it comes to quoting Randy T.
Quoting Randy in one instance but not the other.
He clearly says in his book that LMP was friends with Michael doing the trips to London and S.A.
There was nothing romantic between them at that point.
And even if there was have feelings for someone and acting on it are two different things.

And maybe these two didn't have a second chance because they weren't compatible.

 

[dori727]

^^^^^ ok, but you have to admit that the first picture and the last picture shows ALOT on how these two were towards each other after the divorce. I don't know about you, but I don't go around kissing my guy friends who aren't my boyfriends. lol The pictures indicate that they were more than friends imo

 

[mandy543]

^^^^^ ok, but you have to admit that the first picture and the last picture shows ALOT on how these two were towards each other after the divorce. I don't know about you, but I don't go around kissing my guy friends who aren't my boyfriends. lol The pictures indicate that they were more than friends imo

Yeah I agree. If they were "just friend" then why did Debbie say that Michael still loved her and cared for her a lot, and that the only picture that was by his bed was of Lisa. Lol I don't act this way with any of my exes!
I'm just glad that Lisa made him happy and that he experienced the love he always wanted.

 

[mandy543]

Jackson describes women as manipulative, disappointing. Here, he talks about how badly Lisa Marie Presley let him down when she didn't want children.

Michael Jackson: She promised me that before we married, that would be the first thing we'd do is have children. So I was broken-hearted and I walked around all the time holding these little baby dolls and I'd be crying, that's how badly I wanted it, you know.

 

[HIStory]

I think Brooke is just his PR girl. Whenever he is asked about his romances in an interview he brings up Brooke. I really don't think he was in love with her, IMO that's just the cover up for his real relationships. LaToya wrote in her book he wasn't in love with her (and that Brooke was very pushy and Michael didn't like that). Also on the Glenda tapes when Michael is talking about his past romances he NEVER mentions Brooke. He mentions Tatum, Diana, Melissa and he talks a LOT about the Arab girl "S" - but no mention of Brooke at all. Brooke too told after his death they were just friends. So IMO it's safe to say she was just the cover so that the media leaves him alone and don't investigate in his real relationsips. Also I think he didn't want to go into details about his real relationships because that would have been too private - he simply didn't want to make that part of his life public, and it's understandable.

Madonna. Some of the things he said is not nice, but it's not that bad either. What if he didn't find her sexy? Does everybody have to find her sexy?
And well, Madonna called him an "alien drag queen" a couple of years ago, so it's just a case of what goes around, comes around, I guess.

 

[#1MJstan]

good post@respect77

 

[indranee]

guys, I think I have the 'flu (not sure yet if it's H1N1!!). yikes. so this'll be quick 'cos I need to lie down. I have a lot of PMs and emails waiting and I'll get to those soon, I promise!

anyway, I listened to this stuff (a friend TIVO-d) and the Madonna stuff is quite funny. I bet she's actually laughing at it. it sounds like they were like two kids going out. I'm not going to Disneyland and that's that! well I'm not going to a strip club and that's that! LOL!

the thing is I don't think Mike had a problem with the LADIES at the strip clubs. it was the "ladies". :lol:

oh, and "photography books", Madge dear?!?!?! riiiight. :lol:

as for Lisa, gosh, if this doesn't make her feel worse, what will? but she and we knew how he felt about this already, so it's nothing new. I still believe that if they'd stuck it out, he'd have still been with us today.

in terms of the overall feel... oh my god. what a nasty NASTY piece of trash this was. they drew the fans in with the Today show snippet which wasn't all that bad, then they start the show showing good stuff... and then at the end... that a**hole calls Mike 'stupid'! my god, if I could get my hands on him, I'd beat his ungrateful, traitor a**! I'm sorry, but it just really pisses me off. and he had the temerity to bring up "betrayal" by Lisa Marie?! the first chance HE gets, he badmouths Mike on TV. why isn't there justice for these kinds of people?!!

anyway, *deep breath* -- about "S" -- I have gone and read all the transcripts about her -- the convo that Mike had with Glenda about her. I dunno how authentic it is, after all, I haven't heard the actual tape, but oh god can I just say I never thought I could love and adore Michael Jackson more?!?! well, after reading that (and feeling kinda bad and very, very naughty), I can tell you it can happen. I know it's an extreme invasion of privacy, but let me tell you, if his female fans could not love him more, they will after this. he was... well, let's just say, he was a one-in-a-million-man. but poor, poor Mikey -- he sure was looking for love in all the wrong places.

 

[elmari]

anyway, *deep breath* -- about "S" -- I have gone and read all the transcripts about her -- the convo that Mike had with Glenda about her. I dunno how authentic it is, after all, I haven't heard the actual tape, but oh god can I just say I never thought I could love and adore Michael Jackson more?!?! well, after reading that (and feeling kinda bad and very, very naughty), I can tell you it can happen. I know it's an extreme invasion of privacy, but let me tell you, if his female fans could not love him more, they will after this. he was... well, let's just say, he was a one-in-a-million-man. but poor, poor Mikey -- he sure was looking for love in all the wrong places.

Indranee, Aww. . poor thing. I am so sorry that you are feeling sick. Hope it's not swine flu!

Anyways, I know you are busy. But can you PM some of the stuff that made you love MIchael more?

Also, I totally agree with the highlighted statement above. Michael just couldn't catch a break when it came to his romances. But I think it's because he wanted a fairy tale romance and he wanted everything to be perfect or just as he wanted it.

 

[HIStory]

What was it with the strip club? I missed that part.

As for Mike looking for love in the wrong places. I have the feeling he was the type of man who loved the hunt, the chase. No wonder, considering he had all these girls throwing themselves at him all his life. So when a girl didn't that's when he started to be interested. Diana, "S", even LMP fits that pattern.

I also think he liked to suffer, torture himself emotionally, he liked the drama. Hence his choices in women, girls (Diana, "S") who couldn't be his (not for a life at least).

 

[dori727]

^^^^ I too think he liked the chase, i'm like that too. I get all uncomfortable when guys throw themselves on me its annoying! lol But I think Michael loved the chase because he was to use to girls throwing themselves on him like fans etc, and also he was to use to people in general sucking up to him. These ladies never threw themselves or sucked up to him the way others did. Heck, LMP thought he was weird at the beginning remember? Also, the main reason why I think he loved these women over others like Madonna is because they were classy. Even LMP during that time use to dress very proper and did look classy. After the divorce he totally let herself go but when she was with Mike she always looked very elegant.

As for Madonna, Michael did say that about her but he also said that he thought madonna was going to change after having kids, and she did. Also, calling someone a witch is not THAT bad lol. Its not like he called her a sl*t ,b*tch, etc. And he called her a witch AFTER she started trash talking about him. And michael also clarified that to him sexy was something that can from the heart etc. And indranee, i hope you get better!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol i'm feeling a bit under the weather too. =( But i dont think its swine flu lol

 

[dearmichael1]

I dont think it bothers MJ's fans what he said about Madonna , cuz Madonna has dissed MJ countless times in the past. Yes she defended him in 2003 but remember the tapes were made before that. Shoot even janet has dissed her and Madonna was like she doesn't know y. I think Janet was sticking up for her big brother awwwwwwwwww

 

[dori727]

lol ^^^^ i LOVE janet! =D she was always defending michael and IMO was probably the only true sibling Michael has ever had. She said so herself that she never wanted to ride on Michael's back, that she wanted to make it on her own...and well, she did.

 

[mandy543]

What did Madonna say about Michael??? I read that both Janet and Lisa were mad at her for it.

 

[elmari]

What did Madonna say about Michael??? I read that both Janet and Lisa were mad at her for it.

If Lisa and Janet were both mad, then is was probably something about the MTV kiss in 1994. I don't know what the exact quote was, but she made a none too positive comment about the kiss.

 

[dori727]

haha i just thought of something...Madonna's daughter Lourdes is about the same age as Prince Michael. Lol, it would be funny if in the future we see some competition between these two the way we saw it between Mj and madonna...lol

ok, now back to the original topic before the thread gets deleted...

on the tapes Michael mentions how much Lisa had disappointed him because of the whole baby thing and her not wanting to have one. Wow, he sounded MAD when he said this, and this WAS probably the main reason why when she called him when she was pregnant that he didn't talk at all. That is so sad =( I really hope she doesn't come across the tapes, i know its going to be hard for her not too, but I really hope she doesn't because its just going to make her feel worse.

 

[elmari]

I just finished listening to the $chmuley tapes on youtube. I only listened to Michael's comments and FF through the commentary by Viera and $hmuley.

Though they did not air much of what he said about Lisa, you could tell how hurt he was by her. When he was talking about Brooke and Tatum, he got so excited and recounted his memories of his boyhood loves. I think he cherishes the memories of those romances because they were innocent. I really think he would have married Brooke if she was romantically interested in him. But he said himself that he wished that she loved him as much as he loved her.

But back to Lisa, to him the refusal to have children after they got married (when she had assured him that they would before) was probably like the ultimate betrayal to him. He said that he adored family life with a wife and children. However, I am not sure if she never wanted to have his children or maybe she just wanted to wait a while and make sure they were stable. I think we speculated that, but is there any confirmation that she had said something like that?

Someone who had bought the $hmuley book and has been posting tidbits here and there said that after the divorce, Lisa had written him letters telling him that she changed her mind and wanted to have kids with him. But by then his heart turned cold (against her I assume) according to the book. I'd like to hear him say this before i actually believe it. Maybe he was afraid to believe her and didn't want to take the chance of getting hurt again.

Anyways, what MJ said about Madonna was actually quite funny, the dating part I mean. I don't think anyone could take offense to that. But the part about her being jealous of his fame. . . i could totally believe it because when you think about it Michael Jackson's shadow loomed large over the entire music industry. It would be hard to reach his level of fame all over the world.

ETA: Haha, Dori! I think we were posting at the same time. ITA with you, he sounded mad when he was talking about Lisa and feeling betrayed by her.

 

[dori727]

^^^^ lol i think we were! And I agree, he must have felt extremely betrayed by Lisa. And Elmari, do you know who is the person that has read the book and is posting information? Also, I too want to hear him say it for me to believe it. Omg, and I laughed so hard when he was talking about meeting brooke shields, he got all excited and screamed out "OH MY GOD!"

 

[CTU]

He didn't mention much amout LMP in that? I think he kept all his real love private, that's it. He only did say about Lisa in a happy was he did in those interview in 1999, he preferred not to say anything bad or discuss his relationship to the public. I wish there'd be more about Lisa in that The Michael Jackson Tapes but if not, it's mean he kept it private and she meant a lot to him.

 

[HIStory]

He didn't mention much amout LMP in that? I think he kept all his real love private, that's it. He only did say about Lisa in a happy was he did in those interview in 1999, he preferred not to say anything bad or discuss his relationship to the public. I wish there'd be more about Lisa in that The Michael Jackson Tapes but if not, it's mean he kept it private and she meant a lot to him.

He talked quite a bit about LMP. He said she promised him to have kids right away but she didn't and he was very desperate about that and cried a lot. He said after the divorce Lisa stayed in Katherine's house a lot and she changed her mind and wrote letters to him saying she would have his kids, whatever he wants but by then his heart turned cold to her. He also talked about that when they were married they mainly lived in Lisa's house in LA and they spent the weekends in Neverland.

It seems like not having his kids was the ultimate turn off for Michael about Lisa and his love for her died because of that. I can imagine how he felt when he heard the news about LMP having kids with another guy, while she didn't want to have his.

 

[CTU]

respect77

You got the book, is it good? I'm considering to buy it...

Is that all he said about Lisa? I wonder about their get together after divorce, I guess he didn't mention it in the book.

 

[HIStory]

respect77

You got the book, is it good? I'm considering to buy it...

Is that all he said about Lisa? I wonder about their get together after divorce, I guess he didn't mention it in the book.

I don't have the book. I have heard from others this is what in the book about LMP. I don't know if there's anything else.

 

[mandy543]

He talked quite a bit about LMP. He said she promised him to have kids right away but she didn't and he was very desperate about that and cried a lot. He said after the divorce Lisa stayed in Katherine's house a lot and she changed her mind and wrote letters to him saying she would have his kids, whatever he wants but by then his heart turned cold to her. He also talked about that when they were married they mainly lived in Lisa's house in LA and they spent the weekends in Neverland.

It seems like not having his kids was the ultimate turn off for Michael about Lisa and his love for her died because of that. I can imagine how he felt when he heard the news about LMP having kids with another guy, while she didn't want to have his.

That's terrible, I feel so bad for Michael. I wonder why she decided not to have kids with him...

 

[HIStory]

That's terrible, I feel so bad for Michael. I wonder why she decided not to have kids with him...

I don't think she didn't want to have kids with him at all. She just wasn't sure of the stability of their relationship yet. Plus, if we can believe her blog, she wanted Michael get off his "self-destructive" habits (whatever they were) first. Michael couldn't understand that and IMO he decided in his heart that means she doesn't love him and his heart turned cold to her.

 

[CTU]

I think she wanted their marriage to be stable first, I did that too before I decided to have baby... even I was with my husband for 10 years before we got married, you don't know what will happen after you got married. They only spend months together, she didn't want to rush... apart from the fact that they had other problems too. I really don't blame her, she got 2 children, she knew what it takes to raise baby. I think she was more mentally mature than MJ at that time, have you guys ever heard that Guys are usually 7 years mentally younger than women? I think it's true, with most guys around me.

While MJ was desperate to have baby, he actually didn't now what it's take to raise a baby... But I do understand him that he didn't want to get back with her, he was disappointed by her... doesn't matter what issued it was... he just didn't want to risk his heart again even though he was still deeply in love with her. Again, he had trust issue.

 

[dearmichael1]

I dont think she wanted kids with him. If you watched the Diane Sawyer interview she said, She got of that one quick by basically telling him Its not the time. And from also watching Oprah with her and her mother, Priscilla would never allow it. That woman rules Lisa to this day.