When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[swirl0]

You probably saw my comment.. One thing I don't understand about MJ. He didn't give her a second chance. He was upset about Lisa married Nic Cages. Why?

 

[indranee]

You probably saw my comment.. One thing I don't understand about MJ. He didn't give her a second chance. He was upset about Lisa married Nic Cages. Why?

hi, I am not exactly sure what your question is, actually, but I did see it before and I answered it with this:

I don't think they ever stopped loving each other, but being hurt can turn the love into something much less uplifting. then it becomes almost self-destructive. I think that's what respect was talking about. I doubt Michael ever really stopped loving Lisa Marie.

---

does that answer your question?

 

[dearmichael1]

The Rabbi said he had 30 hrs worth of recordings. Does anyone think he published all of it? I don't . I think that Jackass only published what he wanted us to hear, to portray MJ how he wanted. And another thing how do we know he didn't twist MJ words? I dont trust that man one bit. A man of God my Ass

 

[xthunderx2]

Women and Trust - Lisa Marie Presley and His Brothers' Wives

SB: Do you think a lot of their wives were more interested in their success than in them?
MJ: Absolutely. They were after their money. That's why i said to myself that I would never be married. I held out the longest. I stayed at home until I was 27-28.

SB: So was aprt of the attraction to LMP that she had her own money and her own fame and you didn't have to be anxious that she was intersted in your for the wrong reason?
MJ: Absolutely, and she didn't take a penny (when we got divorced). She didn't want anything. She makes about a million dollars a year from Elvis memorabilia and selling all that stuff and she has her own thing. She is not here to take, you know.

MJ always spoke with affection and respoect for LMP, with the one exception when he told me that she had wanted him to get involved with Scientology and got pushy.

SB: So that means there was alomst like one girl in the whole world that you could marry because even a rich woman would want your name. You needed someone with money and a name. You were down to a Presley or a McCartney or something like that.
MJ: I know. Lisa was great. She was a sweet person. But it is hard to tie me down. I can't stay in one place one time so that's why I don't know if I (can) really be completelyl married all the time.

SB: Did you want to be a father to her kids?
MJ: Yes

SB: Do you still stay in touch with the children?
MJ: Yes, and with her.

SB: But marriage is too confirming?
MJ: Yes. I don't konw whether I am disciplined enough because I am such a rolling stone. I have such a life when I am always on the move and women don't like that. They want you to be settled in one place all the time but I have to move. I have been in the same city as where my house is and I'll check into a hotel just ot feel like I am going somewhere. My house is right there. I guess I am just moving all the time, moving.

At the entrance to Michael's home in Neverland, there were large suitcases that were permanently packed and always ready to go. In the same way that some people buy two of everything - one for the primary home and one for the weekend home - michael had a version of that, only the spare things were permantly in the suitcases. He explained to me that he travels so much taht he doesn't see the point in ever packing or unpacking. The things in the suitcases never came out.

CTU...thank you for your posts...if you could tell me the name of the book that you got this from I would be glad...thank you in advance..

 

[CTU]

You probably saw my comment.. One thing I don't understand about MJ. He didn't give her a second chance. He was upset about Lisa married Nic Cages. Why?

I think he didn't give her a second chance of many reason such as:

- He was heart broken by the fact that she didn't keep her promise: Trust issue again
- He knows it won't work because of many other issues, like he said he's not easy to live with.. he moves all the time.. this doesn't count what he didn't say and we didn't know...
- etc.

But he was upset cause he wanted to keep Lisa with him, he didn't want her to be with other guy. Listen to "Don't walk away", I think he really meant for her. He didn't know what to do, they couldn't get back together and he couldn't let go. He was also jealous when he talked about her ex husband, I think he can feel jealousy.. hahah that's cute. There are other songs of his that mentioned about doesn't want her to be touched by other guy... I think he actually jealous when Lisa went out with other guy. I think they've been in and out of relationship for quite a while.. first Lisa tried to send him those letter and wanted him back.. when he denied it... she tried to go out with other guy, he got jealous... when she divorced Nic, he did call her... They took turn trying to get back together.. until something happen in 2003 - when Lisa was done with it and started bashing him. Do you think it has anything to do with Blanket's birth or his mom? When he decided to have other baby, Lisa was done with him... or may be they were done then he decided to have Blanket after he knews that Lisa was gone.

I also believe they never stop loving each other.

 

[Memefan]

MJ made it sound like he walked away from their marriage. But wasn't she the one who asked for a divorce? Which he did not want...so he did not mind staying in the marriage despite her not wanting his children.

And I am surprised he does no even mention DR.

 

[dori727]

Lol ok, i dislike the fact that the dumb Rabbi came out with Mj's private life...But I absolutely LOVE the fact that now some of our questions have been answered. I completely understand Lisa now and why she was so mad. Heck, I would have been bitter too! oh and lisa in one of her songs talks about furniture like how michael said that sometimes she would call herself that. And I think, personally that michael didn't know what he wanted. I personally think Michael would have felt better with a women there or a girlfriend character. Like how everything between Lisa and him was fine when they were dating. The problems were after marriage.

haha and I laughed so much on how jealous of Danny michael was....that was beyond cute. Ok but my question is that she wanted to get back with him, and then in 1998 was when he took her out to dinner etc. Does that mean that they "almost" got back together at one point? Did his hard heart sort of soften for her?

oh and this is of topic, but in the taraborrelli Book "supposedly" michael dislikes brooke shields greatly etc...But in the recordings he has wonderful recollections of her etc and he was excited when talking about her. This just proves that taraborrelli is full of it.

awww and ofcourse Lisa's kids loved Michael. He was the perfect father IMO.

and thanks indranee! =)

 

[indranee]

yeah, I'd like to hear those 30 hours. Shmuley is sure lining his pockets. why not release the tapes on youtube Shmuley?!!

 

[dori727]

I think he didn't give her a second chance of many reason such as:

- He was heart broken by the fact that she didn't keep her promise: Trust issue again
- He knows it won't work because of many other issues, like he said he's not easy to live with.. he moves all the time.. this doesn't count what he didn't say and we didn't know...
- etc.

But he was upset cause he wanted to keep Lisa with him, he didn't want her to be with other guy. Listen to "Don't walk away", I think he really meant for her. He didn't know what to do, they couldn't get back together and he couldn't let go. He was also jealous when he talked about her ex husband, I think he can feel jealousy.. hahah that's cute. There are other songs of his that mentioned about doesn't want her to be touched by other guy... I think he actually jealous when Lisa went out with other guy. I think they've been in and out of relationship for quite a while.. first Lisa tried to send him those letter and wanted him back.. when he denied it... she tried to go out with other guy, he got jealous... when she divorced Nic, he did call her... They took turn trying to get back together.. until something happen in 2003 - when Lisa was done with it and started bashing him. Do you think it has anything to do with Blanket's birth or his mom? When he decided to have other baby, Lisa was done with him... or may be they were done then he decided to have Blanket after he knews that Lisa was gone.

I also believe they never stop loving each other.

Good point. Lisa WANTED to have kids with Michael. maybe she too was also mad at the fact that he was having kids with someone else the way he was mad at her for having twins. They both had the same reaction and both of them were extremely jealous.

 

[Memefan]

Guys, what do you think... I think my hard starts to hurt if this getting longer...

I think I love Lisa even more when I read this, she really love him. He's really hard to understand, he had his issuesssss, trust, children, what he expect from a women. but I'm glad at least he knows that he's difficult to be with.. not a type for a husband. He knew that part of the relationship didn't work was because of him, not only because of Lisa didn't want to have children.

Imagine yourself spending time with your ex mother in law, writing those letters... she was so deeply in love with him, no matter what he'd done to her.. getting Debbie pregnant.. she desperately want to get back with him. Until one day that she kind of gave up.. and tried to move on. I wonder if she actually success with that with Lockwood. From my opinion, I think deep down both LMP and Lockwood know that their love wasn't the one that could fulfil her. So sad.

All my dreams been broken (His dream of having children??)
I don’t know where we’re going
Everything we said and all we done now
Don’t let go, I don’t wanna walk away
(Even he was so hurt by the fact that Lisa didn't want to have children, he still loved her.. he didn't want her to leave. I don't know that he wrote that when they got divorce or when they stop their relationship before 2000??)

I think I understand Lisa about her kids, they are her kids and they are not the same as other kids around the world. I think MJ has to find that in Mother Teresa.. I think MJ also hurt by LMP answer about adopting her kids... when she said in the interview. Again, her kids were still very much involve with their dad... and the sound he said about their dad.. was a bit bitter?? he mentioned.. the other guy. hahaha.

I think Lisa is a normal nice sweet girl.. from what MJ said too. But MJ is not normal, his love for children is about to be a saint.. his issues are way to far to adjust to live with. His movement, he move all the time.. I think at least he sound like he knows that he wasn't easy to live with. That may be one of the reason he didn't get back with LMP. Not only the baby issue, but many other issue that he knows it's not gonna work. He's the center of the universe, he knew that.. and he couldn't make LMP rotate around him and he knew it. I actually couldn't believe that a person like LMP would wrote those letter begging him. She really loves him, she actually saw through him.. through all those weird life he has.. his plastic surgery, his skin thing, even after what's she's been through during the marriage and after divorce... she still want him back.

Now, I start to think, may be she loved him more than he loved her. He even said in the book that he doesn't need that kind of love, he's okay with his life with his love for children. Like LMP said, he loved her as much as he could love someone. : ( But for her she loves him... and she doesn't have other kind of love that would beat the love for her man. He loved her very much, but that kind of love isn't something he can live without, but he couldn't live without love for children. I think he spent the last 10 years kind of not so sad that Lisa was bashing him.. hahah he understood her..

wow...wow...wow...I can't even know what to say.

 

[indranee]

dori, yeah Randy is full of it mostly lol but the book is sure a fast read. can't put it down lol...

and yeah, it's sad but it took this to put to rest some of our questions. oh the irony.

EDIT: one thing though these tapes and the Shmuley book confirms (the one thing we always knew): Michael is one of the most complex and complicated men that ever walked this earth LOL!

 

[swirl0]

I think he didn't give her a second chance of many reason such as:

- He was heart broken by the fact that she didn't keep her promise: Trust issue again
- He knows it won't work because of many other issues, like he said he's not easy to live with.. he moves all the time.. this doesn't count what he didn't say and we didn't know...
- etc.

But he was upset cause he wanted to keep Lisa with him, he didn't want her to be with other guy. Listen to "Don't walk away", I think he really meant for her. He didn't know what to do, they couldn't get back together and he couldn't let go. He was also jealous when he talked about her ex husband, I think he can feel jealousy.. hahah that's cute. There are other songs of his that mentioned about doesn't want her to be touched by other guy... I think he actually jealous when Lisa went out with other guy. I think they've been in and out of relationship for quite a while.. first Lisa tried to send him those letter and wanted him back.. when he denied it... she tried to go out with other guy, he got jealous... when she divorced Nic, he did call her... They took turn trying to get back together.. until something happen in 2003 - when Lisa was done with it and started bashing him. Do you think it has anything to do with Blanket's birth or his mom? When he decided to have other baby, Lisa was done with him... or may be they were done then he decided to have Blanket after he knews that Lisa was gone.

I also believe they never stop loving each other.

Interesting... Lisa needs to write a book about their relationship. I doubt it.

 

[indranee]

CTU...thank you for your posts...if you could tell me the name of the book that you got this from I would be glad...thank you in advance..

it's the new Shmuley book out since the 25th.

http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Jacks...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254112108&sr=8-2

 

[indranee]

Interesting... Lisa needs to write a book about their relationship. I doubt it.

which is interesting... according to Randy Taraborelli (which in itself tells you to take this info with a large pinch of salt lol) -- Michael did NOT put in any clause in the divorce settlement that keeps Lisa from writing any such book. that means, according to the divorce papers, if she chose to, she could.

again, I got this from the Taraborelli book... so *shrugs*

 

[CTU]

MJ made it sound like he walked away from their marriage. But wasn't she the one who asked for a divorce? Which he did not want...so he did not mind staying in the marriage despite her not wanting his children.

And I am surprised he does no even mention DR.

I think Lisa filed for divorce, then she regretted it. The book said Lisa spent times with Katherine a lot and wrote him letter, telling him that she'd do anything he wants and will have 9 children with him. He said he was cold hearted then, and didn't get back with her... May be that he meant he walked away? I don't know if he meant at the divorce or in 1999. I didn't get back with her, but doesn't mean he didn't see her. All those photo and video capture in 1997 and 1998 said a lot. May be he loved her very much, want to keep her but don't want to be married to be man and wilfe - as he said he couldn't be.

As for Debbie, he did mentioned when asked about the 2 divorces, he said which one.. hahah and RB said with Lisa. So he didn't mention Debbie. But he said the went to a bad 2 divorces... so why the one with Debbie was bad???? He thought of keeping the marriage? I heard that Debbie wasn't actually living with him at all.

But I absolutely LOVE the fact that now some of our questions have been answered. I completely understand Lisa now and why she was so mad. Heck, I would have been bitter too! oh and lisa in one of her songs talks about furniture like how michael said that sometimes she would call herself that. And I think, personally that michael didn't know what he wanted. I personally think Michael would have felt better with a women there or a girlfriend character. Like how everything between Lisa and him was fine when they were dating. The problems were after marriage.

haha and I laughed so much on how jealous of Danny michael was....that was beyond cute. Ok but my question is that she wanted to get back with him, and then in 1998 was when he took her out to dinner etc. Does that mean that they "almost" got back together at one point? Did his hard heart sort of soften for her?

awww and ofcourse Lisa's kids loved Michael. He was the perfect father IMO.

Yeah, true, I totally understand Lisa a bit more of why she bashed him like that and how hurt she was.. and really appreciate the love she had for him. Actually I thought MJ loved her more than she loved him... and she's a bit selfish... now I think MJ is a bit into love for children more than his woman. I agree that he couldn't keep the marraige and he said it himself, I think he could manage a girlfriend....

I think they actually was in some kind of relationship, he loved her and wanted to be in relationship with her.. but he couldn't remarry her, I guess? Why would he agreed for her to go to see him in London and went with him and his parents to Africa... even he agreed to a friendship to take her along.. he didn't need to hold he like that.. his body language showed. Keep in mind that we saw were only 2 incidents on the tabloid.. what more that we didn't know. From the "S" phone conversation, he's the type who loves to talk on the phone, I wonder how many calls they made during those years after divorces.

 

[elmari]

I did something bad while at Barnes and Nobles today.

I enjoyed reading the actual conversation, but I hated the comments put in by Schmuley. His opinion about Michael is all over the book and none too subtle. So I hid all the copies that were on display all over the bookstore. I also hid all of Ian Halperin's book all over the store. I don't want anyone buying those books and I really doubt it's gonna be a high seller.

I just don't understand why Lisa changed her mind and Michael didn't explain it. He just put it all on her. I think it was a combination of her mom, scientology, her ex, and her entourage. Like I said before, if it had been just Lisa and Michael, they would have had kids.

I am sure their time together can fill a thousand pages and we are only getting bits and pieces to try to piece together the bigger story.

 

[indranee]

lol elmari, good work! :lol:

so when do you guys think was the last call between them, now that we know more?

PS. I think it was also Michael's "entourage" as Lisa has hinted many times. aka his leeches etc. also, now we know that it was also partly his inability to separate his OWN children from others. Lisa's mother-love is more like anyone else's. Michael's father-love is universal. she might have had a difficult time understanding that in the beginning. then, once she saw his kids (mainly Prince) and saw how good he was as a dad, she changed her mind completely and wanted to do everything to get back in his life... even going to S. Africa with her kids and his parents... risking tabloid exposure, both their reputations, her mother's wrath etc etc.

nine children (she knew he wanted 9 or 10 kids) ... when I think about it, it boggles the mind. she must have loved him passionately.

 

[elmari]

What I did learn in the book was that Michael sort of saw himself as a public servant to the world. It's like he belonged to no one, but he also belonged to everyone. That's why it was so hard for a woman to be with him because he could never commit all of his attention to her and he was more concerned about helping others in need.

So those convos where in 1999-2000. Michael had definitely said that he and Lisa were still friendly at this time and still see each other, I believe. Lisa, at this time, had been involved with that John guy she got engaged to and then Nic Cage. He also said that they do keep in contact (I guess talk on the phone), but that she had just changed her number and that we had not gotten the new number yet. I thought that was interesting.

When he talked about her in the present, it sounded like they were cool with each other. I mean, it just doesn't make sense. He was the one that stopped them from having another chance. Why then all those comments in the Life article? Why 'Don't Walk Away'? He's still a romantic about that relationship. But just couldn't follow through in reality.

I do feel bad for Lisa. But she shouldn't have tried to control him through postponing babies or whatever. I really think she postponed them, while Michael took it as she didn't want to have them or maybe she said that to him in a fit of rage.

I think it was also Michael's "entourage" as Lisa has hinted many times. aka his leeches etc. also, now we know that it was also partly his inability to separate his OWN children from others. Lisa's mother-love is more like anyone else's. Michael's father-love is universal. she might have had a difficult time understanding that in the beginning. then, once she saw his kids (mainly Prince) and saw how good he was as a dad, she changed her mind completely and wanted to do everything to get back in his life... even going to S. Africa with her kids and his parents... risking tabloid exposure, both their reputations, her mother's wrath etc etc.

Oh yah, I hadn't thought about that. She was worried that Michael would be an immature father. But when she saw how he was around Prince and then Paris (I assume), then she saw how serious he took the role the fatherhood, she changed her mind.

Man. . . wth?! Can't we go back in time?!

 

[dori727]

^^^^^^ aww yes! i wouldn't have nine kids for anyone lol and it seems like he was afraid of getting hurt so he didn't want to fully get married to her again. And I still think the last call between them was when she called him when she was pregnant. Think about it.
*Michael and Lisa divorce
*Michael has a kid with another women (infuriates Lisa)
*Lisa tries to get Michael back but was still a bit unsuccessful
*Michael has another kid
*Lisa moves on and marries nic cage
*michael gets jealous
*Lisa divorces nic
*rumors are that Michael was happy about their divorce
*(now this one i'm not to sure about) Michael calls Lisa to meet him at neverland and he ditches her? oh and mike already had blanket...and even still like this lisa was willing to get back with him
*Lisa starts bashing to the entire world and goes on some wild rampage lol
*The allegations happen...stupid bashir
*Michael disappears
*Lisa marries Lockwood
*Lisa gets pregnant with twins (

 

[indranee]

this is for elmari lol we're posting over each other now...

yeah, I know

you know how he looks and touches kids in orphanages? or how he touches his fans, especially the younger ones? he has a very fatherly look, very paternal attitude. I think she loved that but had a difficult time actually envisioning him as a father to his own children, especially because he always talked in universal terms and was always being a big kid (remember those bunny ears he was making in the DS interview?). he even said it during his 50th b'day celebrations remember? "my children are your children" (and vice versa). but I think that once she saw his kids, all her doubts were erased.

it's all very sad.

 

[dori727]

^^^^^^^^ Agree! Michael was an excellent father. Lisa was wrong for ever doubting that. Lol actually, knowing that he loved children that much, maybe by Lisa having a kid it would have helped her tie mike down. Think about it...he never went ANYWHERE without blanket, paris, and prince...and when he did he was always sad becasue he wanted to be with them

 

[indranee]

Also, maybe now she'll know that it bothered him what she said of Mike not being her kids dad. She could have said "he is LIKE a dad to them, or IS a second dad to them".

exactly. I think she deeply hurt him with that one. he carried that around for a long time, judging from this.

 

[indranee]

^^^^^^^^ Agree! Michael was an excellent father. Lisa was wrong for ever doubting that. Lol actually, knowing that he loved children that much, maybe by Lisa having a kid it would have helped her tie mike down. Think about it...he never went ANYWHERE without blanket, paris, and prince...and when he did he was always sad becasue he wanted to be with them

yep. it would've probably been what he wanted the most in his life: a big, happy family.

oh gosh this is making me very sad. I want a time machine!!

anyway, gotta go to bed dori... you should go to bed too, my fellow insomniac

 

[dori727]

haha lol i should! but i have a quiz tomorrow i haven't studied for =)

and yes, i want a time machine to go back and fix all this lol

 

[mandy543]

What did Michael say in the book about Nicolas Cage???

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

Q: so was part of the attraction to LMP that she had her own money and her own fame and you didn't have ot be anxious that she was interested in you for the wrong reason?

A: Absolutely, and she didn't take a penny (when we got divorced). She didn't want anything. She makes about a million dollars a year from Elvis memorabilia and selling all that stuff and she has her own thing. She is not here ot take, you know.

Why would she? I never believed she took anything from Michael. She didn't need that and she is prouder than that. I'm glad Michael confirmed this.

What about the $15 million divorce settlement that I keep hearing she got?

or they could have had kids, then broke up and had a huge custody battle.
You really think LM would have given up her kids to live full-time with MJ
How do you think MJ would have coped with that situation???
They couldnt even make it 2 years, what makes you think they would have still been married in 03 or 05 to alter the events of his life.

Hmm...you really think if they had kids that MJ would have wanted sole custody and for LMP not to see their kids?

 

[dori727]

^^^^^^ I don't think michael is that cruel. he would have not taken the kids away from lisa, and i don't think Lisa would have taken the kids away from Michael. Even with HER kids she allowed Michael to visit them after etc.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

I did something bad while at Barnes and Nobles today.

I enjoyed reading the actual conversation, but I hated the comments put in by Schmuley. His opinion about Michael is all over the book and none too subtle. So I hid all the copies that were on display all over the bookstore. I also hid all of Ian Halperin's book all over the store. I don't want anyone buying those books and I really doubt it's gonna be a high seller.

Bad? You should get a medal. We don't have to fill $humley's pockets to find out what's in the book.

oh gosh this is making me very sad. I want a time machine!!

and yes, i want a time machine to go back and fix all this lol

Join the club.

Loneliness, Wanting Children, and LMP's second thoughts

Thanks for posting that.

 

[mandy543]

I secretly wish that MJ forgave Lisa and gave her a second chance...I wonder if things would have been different if he had.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

What I did learn in the book was that Michael sort of saw himself as a public servant to the world. It's like he belonged to no one, but he also belonged to everyone. That's why it was so hard for a woman to be with him because he could never commit all of his attention to her and he was more concerned about helping others in need.

So those convos where in 1999-2000. Michael had definitely said that he and Lisa were still friendly at this time and still see each other, I believe. Lisa, at this time, had been involved with that John guy she got engaged to and then Nic Cage. He also said that they do keep in contact (I guess talk on the phone), but that she had just changed her number and that we had not gotten the new number yet. I thought that was interesting.

When he talked about her in the present, it sounded like they were cool with each other. I mean, it just doesn't make sense. He was the one that stopped them from having another chance. Why then all those comments in the Life article? Why 'Don't Walk Away'? He's still a romantic about that relationship. But just couldn't follow through in reality.

The part about the "we" is interesting. Mabye he means he had an assistant who was working on getting it? I think the answer to what you asked in bold is basically what dori727 said: Michael didn't want to get hurt again. Most likely he didn't trust her completely. When I read the part about her sending him letters and what was in them, my jaw dropped.

Perhaps later on there was a point where he felt like he could start to open up to her but she was hurt and had convinced herself that she didn't need to try again.

And also, I can see how Lisa felt especially since she had never heard these tapes before. She probably thought Michael only wanted her for having children and when he found someone else to do the job he didn't need her anymore. I can see it more now too because of the fact that she was writing letters and stuff to get back with him. But now that we have heard the tapes, it is also clear that Michael didn't want to get hurt again by Lisa and her broken promises. Now I hope Lisa only hears that part for the sole purpose of knowing that he loved her very much and that he was just afraid of getting hurt again. Also, maybe now she'll know that it bothered him what she said of Mike not being her kids dad. She could have said "he is LIKE a dad to them, or IS a second dad to them".

Regarding, LMP thinking MJ only wanted her for kids its possible. We've heard before that she had her mother and Danny tell her that Mike was no good for her; he was only using her. I guess when he wouldn't open back up to her (they were still hanging out and talking), trust her completely & probably was hesistant or resisting them getting back together seriously; she started to think the worst.

Communication and trust...