When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[elmari]

well at first when I heard he married Lisa ...I was like...oh I am so happy for them...they will do well together..but..then...he married Debbie.....I was like Bitch....not only marrying Michael but being pregnant too....well that just made me miserable....I wasnt happy like I was when he was married to lisa. I think it was the finality of the thought that she was pregnant...ok...so maybe it was jealousy. ......I dont remember thinking.....oh well if Debbie makes Michael happy then I am happy.....different feeling for me between the two marriages.

LOL!

I remember when it was confirmed that he married Lisa, I was really, really happy for him and for them. At first, I thought it was a sham, though. But when I saw pictures of them together, they looked so good and they looked genuinely in love. I mean, if it was a sham, I don't think that Lisa would have done all those things that she did with Michael (like the MTV kiss and being naked in the YANA video). I also really wanted Michael to be happy because he had just gone through hell.

When they got divorced, I was sad. But I think I had stopped really paying attention to all the sensationalism of his personal life and was just all about the music and the art. I believed what I believed and I didn't let rumors and stories influence me.

That's why when he married Debbie and was expecting a baby. . . I was like 'Oh, really. Well, I hope he is happy with his new family.' But it was actually really hard for me to believe that it was a love match btw Michael and Debbie because she really did not look like his type at all. I had my suspicions since the beginning, but who am I to judge?

 

[micaro7]

I'm going to put my two cents in here and say that I think that other girl he was IN LOVE with is Diana.

BUT, Oprah asked him had he ever been in love, who he'd been in love with, etc. . . I really don't think he was in love with Brooke. I think he said her name because they been seen publicly at events together all through out the 1980s.

I think 'S' (and if we are referring to the royal girl) was an infatuation that was reciprocated.

I don't think 'the other girl' is Lisa because I really do believe that had just reconnected early 1993. Also, I think he fell in love with her over time as they talked over the phone as friends and how she was a rock for him when the 1993 allegations surfaced.

But going back to Diana, we all know that he really was in love with her (even if we don't know what her feelings were about him). Didn't he say in those conversations that he thought he was in love with Diana, but it was all in his head or something like that. Well, Lisa basically said the same thing, but we all know that she was really in love with Michael.

Michael clearly said on the tapes that he was in love with S.
We don't even know much about this relationship so we can't downplay whatever went on.

and I honestly think some of the speculation in here is the reason some people get up in arms when LMP's name is mentioned.
Clearly Lisa was a major part of MJ's life but to make her the only woman ever to have had a significance is a bit much.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

Michael clearly said on the tapes that he was in love with S.
We don't even know much about this relationship so we can't downplay whatever went on.

and I honestly think some of the speculation in here is the reason some people get up in arms when LMP's name is mentioned.
Clearly Lisa was a major part of MJ's life but to make her the only woman ever to have had a significance is a bit much.

When were those tapes recorded? So we have 3 possibilities. He might have mentioned who he most recently was in love with. :lol:

 

[xthunderx2]

LOL!

I remember when it was confirmed that he married Lisa, I was really, really happy for him and for them. At first, I thought it was a sham, though. But when I saw pictures of them together, they looked so good and they looked genuinely in love. I mean, if it was a sham, I don't think that Lisa would have done all those things that she did with Michael (like the MTV kiss and being naked in the YANA video). I also really wanted Michael to be happy because he had just gone through hell.

When they got divorced, I was sad. But I think I had stopped really paying attention to all the sensationalism of his personal life and was just all about the music and the art. I believed what I believed and I didn't let rumors and stories influence me.

That's why when he married Debbie and was expecting a baby. . . I was like 'Oh, really. Well, I hope he is happy with his new family.' But it was actually really hard for me to believe that it was a love match btw Michael and Debbie because she really did not look like his type at all. I had my suspicions since the beginning, but who am I to judge?

oh I totatly agree with ya..about Debbie not looking like his type....:shocked:.....she was available to have babies so Michael probably took her up on it...I would of done it for free..:naughty:.

 

[micaro7]

When were those tapes recorded? So we have 3 possibilities. He might have mentioned who he most recently was in love with. :lol:

Some were recorded during the the dangerous album all the way through the first leg of the dangerous tour ( but the relationship sounds like it was over by then)

 

[CTU]

Thanks for the responses about the wedding band question. My theory is that he just wanted everyone to think that his marriage to Debbie was a 'real' one in that they married because they were in love and they were a 'normal' couple. She was already pregnant when they married, so I guess for the sake of the children as well to keep up the facade of a marriage.

Also, I've always maintained that Debbie was in his life to be a surrogate mother. He was away on tour and/or working on his projects for most of their marriage and she would be at home pregnant and living her own life. I don't think she was a part of his daily life. So another theory for wearing the band was just to remind himself that he was married. LOL!

Perhaps, with Lisa, she was a part of his daily life and maybe he did wear one and we just never saw it. IDK. My dad never wore his wedding band (and he is a good husband) as far as I can remember. He just didn't like wearing jewelry. He still has his wedding band, though.

Ok, I don't remember back then, but when Debbie and Michael announced that they were married and expecting, does anyone remember what the general reaction was? Like were people in disbelief and thought it was fake like they did with Mike and Lisa? What were your reactions?

At that time, I was a teenager and I remember being surprised, but I was like 'If he's happy, good for him.' I don't remember reading much about their relationship. I felt like the whole time they were together, everything was pretty quiet about them and they would only get attention during the birth of a baby. Then they got divorced and that was the end of it.

I think you're right, the wore the ring for his kids. May be he told his kids that he was in love with Debbie and things didn't work out? That's what he thought back then... but I don't think he did try to do that.... clearly he didn't try to have Debbie in their life that much. I think he tried to make it looks real, wedding ring, wedding ceremony - on the news, have Debbie on TV at neverland.. said that they conceived their baby naturally even said that they name Paris because it was at Paris. I don't believe he's the type to say that if it was true. Trying to make it like a normal people getting married and it was on the news. Except the part that, when he really fell in love and wanted to get married, he flew away and did it secretly, he didn't wear the wedding ring.. he didn't invite people to Neverland to film them. When it comes to his real personal life, he kept it private, he kept his love for Lisa private just for her to know. Many people who don't like Lisa keep saying that they never heard Michael said he love Lisa, that's because he only keep it between them.

I also believe that Debbie was a surrogate, otherwise, I don't think Lisa would be seeing him during that time... at least not in the public.

 

[micaro7]

I just want to add from looking at all the pics in this thread that Lisa's old Hollywood style while she was with Michael was stunning - she really did it well. Wish she kept it.

I've really enjoyed reading this thread the contributions are fascinating! Never knew they kept dating after the divorce.

Nobody knows, they very well could have just been friends.. Lisa was involved with a musician and then somebody else during this supposed after divorce affair.
Its just speculation that MJ fans have run with since 1997

 

[elmari]

Yeah, we don't know the nature of their relationship from 1996-1999. But I'd say from these pictures taken in 1998, they still looked like they had a romantic connection:

These pictures (post-divorce) is all I need to know that there was still something there.

Also, by Lisa saying that she was 'obsessed' over him for a few years after the divorce says to me that there was still a lot of feelings still there. As for Michael, the Life cover story of him and Prince is all I have to go on that he still had feelings for Lisa after the divorce.

Anyways, Lisa could have dated other men from during this time, but that doesn't mean she wasn't still in love with Michael. People date other people to try to move on, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. One thing or another was preventing these two from having a second chance and unfortunately, i don't think they ever got that 2nd chance.

Part of me feels that Michael had moved on a long time before Lisa. But that doesn't mean he ever stopped loving her. Just means that he knew that they weren't compatible. I think Lisa finally moved on from Michael when she married Lockwood and had the babies. But with Michael's death, she's forced to come to terms with unfinished business with Michael that is most likely going to stay that way for the rest of her life.

 

[dori727]

Awww Elmari...what you said was so insightful and sad =( lol

 

[elmari]

Awww Elmari...what you said was so insightful and sad =( lol

One thing that has me so enchanted with this relationship is Lisa's quote:

'In another world, we'd still be together. Just not in his world'

She also said that in some ways Lisa felt that she and Michael were soulmates. I know that these quotes come from taraborelli's book, but i am giving him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Lisa. Reason is that he interviewed her (I don't know how many times) and he was in the process of writing a book about her. Also, the account in the book fits with things that have happened after the divorce and what Lisa has said about being with Michael.

I think Lisa is a romantic and wants to be loved. Same as Michael. I think by marrying Danny very young and starting a family at such a young age, she wanted to create the loving family atmosphere that was missing from her life as a child. With Michael, I think she wanted to recreate the life that she had with her father because Michael is very much like her father and she wanted to save Michael because she could not save he father. Also, noticed that she has either been engaged or married every few years since 1999. It seems like she likes the family life and the stability of being married.

I honestly don't know if MJ is/was the love of Lisa's life. I am sure that she loved him very deeply. That's certain. But if I have to pick someone that she would consider the the love of her life, then it would be MJ just because of what she had gone through with him and all the repercussions from that relationship. She thinks of Danny as a brother now. *little weird to me* She admits that she and Nic should never have gotten married. Don't know much about Lockwood. But she has been with him for a while now and had children with him. She's mellowed out.

I think Michael had a few loves of his life. I honestly do because it depends on certain time periods. I think Diana was a love of his life (first love). I think Elizabeth was a love of his life (unconditional love). I think Lisa Marie was a love of his life (romantic love). Those three women played pivotal roles in his life. Also, if anyone remembers from an episode of 'Sex in the City', Charlotte tells Carrie that each person has three great loves of their life. Hmm. . . or was it two?!? LOL!

 

[HIStory]

I honestly don't know if MJ is/was the love of Lisa's life. I am sure that she loved him very deeply. That's certain. But if I have to pick someone that she would consider the the love of her life, then it would be MJ just because of what she had gone through with him and all the repercussions from that relationship. She thinks of Danny as a brother now. *little weird to me* She admits that she and Nic should never have gotten married. Don't know much about Lockwood. But she has been with him for a while now and had children with him. She's mellowed out.

I think Michael had a few loves of his life. I honestly do because it depends on certain time periods. I think Diana was a love of his life (first love). I think Elizabeth was a love of his life (unconditional love). I think Lisa Marie was a love of his life (romantic love). Those three women played pivotal roles in his life. Also, if anyone remembers from an episode of 'Sex in the City', Charlotte tells Carrie that each person has three great loves of their life. Hmm. . . or was it two?!? LOL!

I think Michael was the love of Lisa's life. The fact she was/is obsessing about him for so long is very telling about her feelings towards him.

It's more difficult to tell who was the love of Michael's life because he had relationships about that he didn't even let the public know (notably his relationship with that Arab girl between 1988-92 of which we only know now that the Glenda tapes surfaced - and he might have had more secret relationships like that as well). If we only look at his feelings and emotions I think no other woman ever toppled his feelings for Diana. I think he was the only woman on Earth who could have called Michael at any period of his life asking to marry her and Michael would have done that in a heartbeat! Too bad for him that she didn't call him with that.

But once he realized he can't have Diana, he was involved with other women and if we only count his fulfilled relationships I think Lisa is a good candidate for being the love of his life. But since I know the Glenda tapes I think that mysterious Arab woman, "S", is a a very strong candidate too. Only Michael knows who he loved most.

 

[HIStory]

Hmm...so "S" is not Shana who did an interview w/ ET saying they had an intimate personal relationship in the 90s then? Or is she :crazy: I've never heard of the girl you mention...interesting.

No, it's not Shana and it's not Princess Stephanie. It's not somebody famous at all. Because she was from a strictly religious country and family (probably Muslim) for her it was at least as important to keep the relationship in secret as for Michael, if not even more important. I think that's why Michael felt so comfortable with her. Not even Michael's family knew, he said there were only about 5-6 people who knew about the nature of their relationship. Most people thought she was just his employee, an assistant or something.

 

[indranee]

Some were recorded during the the dangerous album all the way through the first leg of the dangerous tour ( but the relationship sounds like it was over by then)

what tapes are you guys talking about? the phone conversations with the girl that's on youtube?

 

[CTU]

So is "S" girl is real? Someone said it isn't, cause the real phone converstaion was on youtube but rest is only a transcript which no one ever hear it.

 

[indranee]

Awww Elmari...what you said was so insightful and sad =( lol

elmari is very, very wise

 

[HIStory]

So is "S" girl is real? Someone said it isn't, cause the real phone converstaion was on youtube but rest is only a transcript which no one ever hear it.

IMO it's real. It's not like "noone ever heard them" just that very few people have it. But there are people who do have it. It could be bought on the website of a journalist back in 2005, he got/bought them from Scott, Glenda's husband. He was a pretty trashy journalist, specialized in revealing sex scandals about celebrities but in Michael's case he thought the tapes prove Michael was innocent in child molestation because from the tapes it's clear Michael had a heterosexual interest directed at adult women.

But since then the journalist died, so nobody can buy it any more. This is his site: http://www.hansnews.com/ You have to roll down a bit and you can still see the links, but they are broken now. The material is a total of 8 hours long, as you can read on that website.

The transcripts have infos and details which convinced me they are real.

 

[indranee]

No, it's not Shana and it's not Princess Stephanie. It's not somebody famous at all. Because she was from a strictly religious country and family (probably Muslim) for her it was at least as important to keep the relationship in secret as for Michael, if not even more important. I think that's why Michael felt so comfortable with her. Not even Michael's family knew, he said there were only about 5-6 people who knew about the nature of their relationship. Most people thought she was just his employee, an assistant or something.

that would make sense -- the conservative family thing. totally understandable. where did they meet then? and is that the woman he wrote Who Is It for? what do you think?

 

[indranee]

IMO it's real. It's not like "noone ever heard them" just that very few people have it. But there are people who do have it. It could be bought on the website of a journalist back in 2005, he got/bought them from Scott, Glenda's husband. He was a pretty trashy journalist, specialized in revealing sex scandals about celebrities but in Michael's case he thought the tapes prove Michael was innocent in child molestation because from the tapes it's clear Michael had a heterosexual interest directed at adult women.

But since then the journalist died, so nobody can buy it any more. This is his site: http://www.hansnews.com/ You have to roll down a bit and you can still see the links, but they are broken now. The material is a total of 8 hours long, as you can read on that website.

The transcripts have infos and details which convinced me they are real.

is the transcript available to read respect?

 

[elmari]

elmari is very, very wise

Thanks indranee. . . Unfortunately, I am one of those people who can be logical about other people's situation, but I am hopelessly clueless about myself. LOL!

Has any of you ever watched this movie called 'Immortal Beloved' about the life of Beethoven? Basically, he dies and leaves a letter for a woman in his life whom he calls his 'Immortal Beloved', but leaves no clue as to who she could be. He had many women and loves in his life, but apparently it's this woman who he loved the most and meant the most to him. The person who finds this letter takes it upon himself to find this woman to give her the letter which declares Beethoven's eternal love for her. We end up following three intricate love stories of his life. In the end, it's a woman that surprises you (his brother's wife, i think).

I feel like that's what we are trying to do here! LOL! Trying to deduce who was the love of Michael's life.

Anyways, Respect77, I didn't read all the transcripts from those convos. I know that "S" was studying in the states for the years you indicated, but it was my understanding that they sort of had a 'summer love' sort of relationship before she had to go back to her country. I may have missed it, but how long did Michael indicate he was involved with her?

 

[indranee]

yes, it was a beautiful movie. it also had some extremely disturbing scenes IIRC.

 

[mandy543]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/m...s-killers.html


Michael Jackson wanted to visit the two boys who brutally murdered toddler James Bulger because he felt "empowered to heal them", according to taped interviews with the deceased singer.
Jackson, who died of heart failure in June aged 50, said he had planned to fly to Britain to see Robert Thompson and Jon Venables behind bars, so he could hug them and tell them: "I love you."

The star refused to believe that the pair, who tortured two-year-old James to death and left his body on a railway line in 1993, were evil.

Jackson made the claims during interviews with Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, with whom he became close friends. The conversations were recorded with Jackson's approval and have been published in a new book – The Michael Jackson Tapes – which goes on sale in the US and online on Friday.

In one interview, Jackson spoke of an argument he had with his first wife Lisa Marie Presley about the two killers, who were aged 10 when they murdered James.

Mistakenly believing that the murder took place in London, rather than Liverpool, Jackson said: "She had a fight with me one time when two little boys in London killed this other kid and I was going to visit them because the Queen gave them adult sentencing of life.

"These boys were like 11 and 10-year-old boys and I was going to go to prison and visit them.

"She said 'You idiot – you're just rewarding them for what they did'.

"I said 'How dare you say that. I bet if you trace their life you can find they didn't have parents around, they didn't have any love, nobody there to hold them, look in their eyes and say I love you.

"'They deserve that even though they're going to get life. I just want to say I love you, and hold them'."

Thompson and Venables were sent to a young offenders institute indefinitely but after a series of controversies about the length of their sentences, they were released on a life licence in June 2001 and given new identities.

Boteach, 42, who recorded more than 30 hours of interviews with Jackson, told The Sun: "Michael brought up James Bulger's killers on a number of occasions.

"He did not believe children could be evil. He felt he was empowered to heal these kids who were neglected."

The interviews also disclose that Jackson deeply admired Diana, the Princess of Wales, describing her as "my type for sure" and "very special" but said he was too shy to ask her on a date.

He said he was convinced that Madonna was "sincerely in love" with him but said he did not find her "sexy at all".

Jackson also referred to Nazi leader Adolf Hitler as a "genius orator" and was convinced that he could have cured the dictator's evil, had he been alive to speak to him.

 

[dori727]

that quote that Elmari posted get's me every time too. I still think Lisa was THE ONE. lol On diana ross, Everyone has a first crush but that doesnt mean that THAT person is the one. Your first crush is important and you will always have a soft spot for that person BECAUSE it was your first. On the arab girl, I don't know much about her but I think it was a romance summer thing, and possibility the first time Michael had ever really connected with someone. This build confidence, and by the time he met Lisa he was extremely sure of himself. He was the "instigator", he sent the flowers, he sent her gifts etc, all while she was married to danny. I still personally think Lisa was the love of michaels life and vice versa. But I do believe the other girls played an important part in his life too. Like someone said earlier, "unconditional love, first love, and romantic love".

and thanks for the article ^^^^

 

[indranee]

Mike and Diana would have been AWESOME!! don't you ladies think so? wow, Mike. you shoulda!

perhaps they'd have both been alive now if he had gathered up the courage to ask her out. it makes me sad. maybe I'm deluded, but something tells me they'd have been great together. and they'd have made BEAUTIFUL kids! :wub:

PS. Elmari, got your PM. I actually meant Lady Diana. I believe that's whom Michael was talking about, in that article mandy543 posted above.

PPS. agreed about Diana Ross too.

 

[elmari]

Man, all Michael tried to do was find the good in people. People are gonna just take what Boteach is dishing and run with it without fully understanding the context of what Michael meant.

I actually admire Michael for wanting to go to those boys to reassure them that he felt that there was good in them and that he felt that they could be redeemed. The crime is horrible and despicable to say the least and those boys lost the rest of their lives because of their behavior.

But Michael is right, they probably had no love and support from home life if they were capable of doing this.

Lisa could not empathize with Michael about this because she was probably trying to reduce the drama and scandal in his life at this time and this would have probably been very controversial if Michael had gone through with it. But I could totally see from where she is coming from.

I hate this Rabbi. With these tapes from the Rabbi, the moonwalker ghostwriter tapes, and all these other tapes. . . gosh, Michael's gonna be headline news for all the wrong reasons for a long time.

I know that Michael had a habit of recording everything he did for his own personal archives, but if I had been him, I'd make sure that I'd have the only copies because then stuff like this happens and he's not here to defend what he said or explain what he meant.

 

[dori727]

See, I personally think that if the killings would have happened after mike had kids he wouldn't have reacted the way he did. Michael couldn't understand the way Lisa was reacting because he hadn't had kids of his own yet. But michael, being as over protective as he is with Prince, blanket, and paris, if the killings would have happened now I don't think michael would have felt the way he did a few years back. I read an article in where it states that the mother of the toddler that was killed said she can never forgive those kids for what they did. Knowing michael, and the way he is with HIS kids, he probably would have never forgiven the kids either, less go visit them if it would have happened to his kids. Also, I read somewhere that the kids/killers had been planning the murder for days. The day before that the two kids were watching a mom with her two little kids. She said she heard the kids debating on which one to take but thought they were talking about taking goodies from a store. Also, another story was that the kids were outside and saw a toddler walking, pushed him to moving cars, and almost caused a huge accident in the parking lot of the mall. Knowing this, I truly appreciate michael for being so kind hearted, but I personally think the kids had some extreme mental problems, possibly because of family problems. But both kids had family problems? Most kids who have problems act a lot on impulse, these kids had been planning this. Very cold hearted indeed.


lol and back to Lisa and michael, the murder happened around February and it says that lisa told michael that he was an idiot for wanting to go etc. Can this help us pinpoint more accurately around the time they started dating? There is a good possibility that they were together when the murder happened, or at least talking. But the murders happend in early February, and he filmed oprah in early February. hmmmm.....

 

[TialovesMJ]

Mike and Diana would have been AWESOME!! don't you ladies think so? wow, Mike. you shoulda!



PPS. agreed about Diana Ross too.

Yeah MJ and Princess Diana would have been perfect for each other :wub: thats so cute that he liked her awww!

 

[elmari]

Ok, so according to the Rabbi tapes. . . Michael considered Brooke Shields as the greatest love of his life. Let's keep an open mind to this and try to figure out why he would consider Brooke the love of his life.

There was no mention of Diana Ross. At least not in what was released from the tapes.

Also, apparently he felt very betrayed by Lisa because she said that they would have children but changed her mind after they got married. I think we all knew this.

Oh yah, Madonna fans are gonna go ballistic on Michael tomorrow!

Argh. . . the circus will never end, will it?

 

[mandy543]

I thought Michael said that Brooke was "ONE of the loves of his life" not THE love of his life???

 

[elmari]

I thought Michael said that Brooke was "ONE of the loves of his life" not THE love of his life???

I am going on somebody's summary of the women in Michael's life in the Dateline Rabbi special. I'll repost here. . .

Okay, he believes he could have gotten through to Hitler and help him.

He described kathering as a saint, like Mother Teresa.

He also said women were very materilistic and can sometimes make men unhappy. He says women are manipulative and dissapointing.

Lisa Marie: promised him that they would have children, then after they got married she changed her mind. He felt betrayed by her.

he liked the way princess Diana made her kids wait in line at amusement parks. He said Princess Diana was his type.

tatum o neil : he loved when she held his hand and he felt loved when she did that.(look at littlesparrow's quote)

Brook shields: she was the greaest love of his life. He had pictures of her all over his wall. she saw him at the academy awards, asked him to dance and he said "yes!" immediatly. They dated A LOT according to him. he loved her dearly and vise versa.

Madonna: MJ said Madona is a nasty witch. Why? because she told MJ that she was NOT going to disneyland. She wanted to go to a restuarant then a strip bar. MJ said HE WAS NOT GOING to a strip bar. He refused it. Then they talked about books and madonna said she liked sexy books (they used another word but it escapes me now) and MJ said that Madonna was into "nasty" books and didn't like that. He said it was for the shock value. He also said Madonna was jealous of him because she wished she had fans like his that fainted and ect.

Now they are giving the This is It trailer....

Mandy, I also just saw the quote where he says 'That's one of the loves of my life' when referring to Brooke when I searched for the above quote. Which do you think it is? Do you think this is a misquote by starlight dancer because it seems like these are summaries of MJ's comments.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

I think it has to be a misquote. I'm pretty sure he said on the Glenda tapes that Diana had his nose wide open. He was definitely in love with her.

The part about Lisa, we knew that already. :yes:

Madge fans need to realize when he said that. Plus I'm pretty sure that she wasn't saying nice things about him to the media once they fell out. Madge already released a statement about this. She knows the deal & I'll bet she wishes they could have made up. Remember she was able to say 'I failed him. I abandoned him.'