Wembley DVD Critique /Quality and other prefered concerts over Wembley go here

And this dvd learned us one thing, becareful what you wish for.

the second thing is that the Estate should not listen to the fans "too much".

You talk as if most fans hate this DVD and are displeased with this release when that's not the case at all.

The fans who made petitions and wanted this to be released for decades were dead right (I never signed any petition regarding this so it's not why I say that)! This is an awesome concert, Michael was on fire and it's one of his best performances ever. So what is it exactly that fans should not have wished for?

As for listening to fans. They had a project when they did not ask fans ("Michael" album) and they have a project when they did take fans' opinions into consideration. Which one is, in your opinion the better project?
 
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A couple of things to consider when you watch the DVD:

- The tape is really 24 or 25 years old. It's not going to look perfect and even if the VHS was a few days old it wouldn't look perfect. VHS is a flawed storage medium and it can't ever look "perfect."

- The enhancements were not made for people to pick apart and look at each frame. The enhancements were made to look good when you play them at full speed, 29.97 FPS on a television screen.

- When Michael's face is orange, or his Smooth Criminal jacket is yellow, or the background is blue or green, that isn't entirely because of VHS damage. The cameras capture the stage lights too. Stage lights change the color of things. One of the main problems with MANY amateur enhancements is that they go too far in color correction and end up removing stage effects and lighting.

- You can't judge the quality of the DVD off of the screenshots. Many screenshots posted here have been resized, resampled, compressed, deinterlaced, or any combination of the four things. The only way you can judge the quality of the DVD is by watching it the way it was meant to be watched: on a television screen with a DVD player.

You have to trust that they handled the footage and audio correctly.

I just watched the original DVD on my Blu-Ray player and my 55 inch HD 3D TV; it was awful. It really made me mad. I could not enjoy one bit of the show. The noise reduction that was done is soo distracting. It's ugly, and don't get me started when it comes to the bonus features. Mastertape of Yokohama? Just give me a big break. That's hilarious.

Sony, you failed once again. I think it's better for the estate to shut down all the future releases. MJ is not longer with us and if he was he would have bitchslapped Sony three times.

This Is It was the best release, after that they shoul have quit and release INVINCIBLE outtakes.

We will never get a Michael Jackson concert in Full High Definition. Nobody has an old 4:3 TV. Even my grandma has a Flat screen tv.

Give me a break. I am so pissed right now. Sorry for those who did enjoy the concert, I am just a quality freak. Always has been.
 
I like the concert. I'm ok with the dvd. What bothers me is that the estate paid money for something that members can do better. Again, from professional remastering better results can be expected.
I know on sd-tv this looks very good. But if these mistakes were prevented, we with flat screens could have also pretty good picture.
I know very well what to expect. No need to repead its 24 years vhs.
On still pix the quality is good, in motion not.
Such mistakes are made also with Hd releases. Many wont personaly admit, but it was obvious that many felt it sad mistake we insisted on wembley.

And "becareful what you wish" does fit very well i think. Cause we wanted un-edited concert. Now many realize that this is not possible with one night in-time editing. Now some complaine about missed shots and bad angles. So i meant wishing for specific date or city.

The estate should not listen to every wish, also. Do you read the other threads? I want monza, i want NY, i want Bombay. We all wanted wembley, here you have it.
Next time, they should take performance that is audio and visiualy best as possible.
 
^ You are forgetting that we did not know the video quality was shit, mister. Blaming the fans is just wrong, don't you think most fans would have LA in HQ instead of Wembley in this quality IF WE KNEW?

Of course most would pick LA. The Estate chose (?) to listen to the fans, releasing this video quality. I think it was a mistake done by them. When they saw the quality of the tape, they should pick another concert that was in really high quality instead.
 
This is ridiculous. Fans WANTED Wembley, specifically July 16. The estate listened to what they said. If the Estate had chosen a different concerts, fans would have bitched that they wanted Wembley. We all know that this is sourced from a VHS tape. If you watch it on a giant HD TV, you are quite frankly an idiot. No television in the world could make a VHS tape look high definition. Most people are watching them on smaller, normal sized TVs. Yeah, if we had known that the Wembley quality would come from a VHS tape we would have picked LA. But we didn't know, and we're given great quality.

You are all focusing on what you want. You can't do that. Fact of the matter is that most fans are going above and beyond with their wants. A high-quality release of the LA footage that we're not 100% certain the Estate has. The second disc full of unreleased recordings, when we're lucky we're getting six (keep in mind that Thriller 25 had two overall). Ever since Michael died, fans have been greedy and demanding untarnished perfection, which Michael himself couldn't even deliver us. He kept us waiting for nine years for another album that never even came out, not to mention the loads full of people who are disappointed with Invincible (which I personally love). Every release is going to have it's flaws, some bigger and more disappointing than others. The Estate, up to this point, has rarely ever listened to exactly what we want, but they have.

Untouched demos, released exactly as they were found.

A live CD taken from amazing quality multitracks of the Wembley show.

A DVD of what is referred to as Michael's best performance.

A box set packed with amazing features, booklets, T-shirts, etc.

With all that in mind, this is the most we've gotten from any release. Thriller 25 gave us two new songs, This Is It only gave us a second-disc of demos, Michael gave us seven over-edited and controversial songs, and Immortal was a remix album. Bad 25 is the best release from Michael in years. So in all honesty, fans need to stop being greedy and thinking about their hopes and dreams and appreciate all the Estate has done for us.
 
I doubt the vocals aren't center because they think fans will do something with the slightly isolated vocal track. There are loads of 5.1 concert films, and some do it that way, some don't.

We should TOTALLY e-mail the company that produced the DVD and ask what gives :).
I wrote them once an asked if they were doing a 5.1 mix at all, and they responded Yes.

But everything Lom Kit and Code are saying is true.

It kinda sucks because chances of another show officially being released anytime soon is extremely low (unless these alleged film reels of Wembley emerge).

Estate basically is saying
1z18aj7.jpg



But anyway, I can't wait to get the DVD tomorrow. The packaging and what-not is nice.
ogm97l.gif


Weird how the GIF of Jermaine is the same quality as the DVD lol (DVD is perfectly fine for me)
 
I wouldn't have wanted another concert if the audio was crap. I'm sorry, but for me Michael's vocals and the music are the priority, always have and always will be. And I'm sure that's true for a lot of other fans. I'd rather have a not-so-good video, but amazing audio and never the other way around.

So I'm perfectly happy with the choice the Estate made. It was the right choice IMO.
 
One thing I noticed was the camera angle filmed by a person at the side of the stage who walks around with him a bit, there's a HOT PIXEL in the middle of the screen! :(

The noise reduction they did is also quite sloppy, on that up close camera if there is sudden movement there's grain horizontally but not evenly distributed like parts have been removed and others haven't.

TWYMMF and Yokohama videos look like they have a little more potentially better quality than this but I think TWYMMF quality is worse than that Bad performance aired at MTV Awards though I believe they're the same source and concert. Yokohama looks less sharp then the (so-so) VHS rips but then again those are oversharpened.

Not 100% happy with the "leak" - until we get it in NTSC region this version has some frame artifacts (MJ's video tape was definitely NTSC), though it looks okay when I watch it on PowerDVD...

To my knowledge SONY put out NTSC worldwide im in the UK and my dvd is NTSC from a UK store they did the same with Vision
 
Blaming the fans is just wrong, don't you think most fans would have LA in HQ instead of Wembley in this quality IF WE KNEW?

that brings it back to what I said previously. " if the fans realize that they don't have all the necessary information to make a sound decision.". Yeah fans need to realize that they don't have all the necessary information to make any decision. We don't know what is recorded, what is still available, what can be released or not. So it's perhaps time to fans to not micro manage the Estate.

Of course most would pick LA. The Estate chose (?) to listen to the fans, releasing this video quality. I think it was a mistake done by them. When they saw the quality of the tape, they should pick another concert that was in really high quality instead.

This is ridiculous. Fans WANTED Wembley, specifically July 16. The estate listened to what they said. If the Estate had chosen a different concerts, fans would have bitched that they wanted Wembley.

I don't think releasing another concert would have worked because then people would have complained why the Wembley not released. In regular "I know it all" attitude people would blame the Estate for holding on to stuff and so on.

This is clearly a "doomed if they do, doomed if they don't" situation.
 
I think it would've worked if the Estate notified the fans to enlighten us on how the Wembley quality would be.

Think about the situation:

Most fans want Wembley

Most fans says LA is good too, but still want Wembley as nr. 1

Estate says LA is a better choice because of very high quality

Most fans gets angry and says show us Wembley

Estate shows us this lq Wembley (not full ofc, just sample or whatever)

Most fans agree that this quality is very bad and that LA would be a better choice
 
that brings it back to what I said previously. " if the fans realize that they don't have all the necessary information to make a sound decision.". Yeah fans need to realize that they don't have all the necessary information to make any decision. We don't know what is recorded, what is still available, what can be released or not. So it's perhaps time to fans to not micro manage the Estate.





I don't think releasing another concert would have worked because then people would have complained why the Wembley not released. In regular "I know it all" attitude people would blame the Estate for holding on to stuff and so on.

This is clearly a "doomed if they do, doomed if they don't" situation.

The fans had a say clearly in Bad 25, and as a project, it's in another league to the album Michael, something which was done without much fan say at all.............
 
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A couple of things to consider when you watch the DVD:

- The tape is really 24 or 25 years old. It's not going to look perfect and even if the VHS was a few days old it wouldn't look perfect. VHS is a flawed storage medium and it can't ever look "perfect."
No one expects to look perfect.

- The enhancements were not made for people to pick apart and look at each frame. The enhancements were made to look good when you play them at full speed, 29.97 FPS on a television screen.
Wrong. If you did that enhancement, it would have been ok. Remastering is exactly that for. to adjust the colors and contrast when its needed. they have the equipment and the time for that. thats what they get paid for.
And most here like heavy de-noised picture, so I understand why many like the quality.

- When Michael's face is orange, or his Smooth Criminal jacket is yellow, or the background is blue or green, that isn't entirely because of VHS damage. The cameras capture the stage lights too. Stage lights change the color of things. One of the main problems with MANY amateur enhancements is that they go too far in color correction and end up removing stage effects and lighting.

We know that this comes because of the lightning. thats why particular scenes needs to be fixed.


- You can't judge the quality of the DVD off of the screenshots. Many screenshots posted here have been resized, resampled, compressed, deinterlaced, or any combination of the four things. The only way you can judge the quality of the DVD is by watching it the way it was meant to be watched: on a television screen with a DVD player.

You have to trust that they handled the footage and audio correctly.
I know that very well. I watched the dvd before most of you. i posted first the sceenshots (raw) and if you have readed my comments
you'll see that i said many times: "its going to be very good oh SD television and 'acceptable' of Hd tvs"


I just watched the original DVD on my Blu-Ray player and my 55 inch HD 3D TV; it was awful. It really made me mad. I could not enjoy one bit of the show. The noise reduction that was done is soo distracting. It's ugly, and don't get me started when it comes to the bonus features. Mastertape of Yokohama? Just give me a big break. That's hilarious.

Sony, you failed once again. I think it's better for the estate to shut down all the future releases. MJ is not longer with us and if he was he would have bitchslapped Sony three times.

This Is It was the best release, after that they shoul have quit and release INVINCIBLE outtakes.

We will never get a Michael Jackson concert in Full High Definition. Nobody has an old 4:3 TV. Even my grandma has a Flat screen tv.

Give me a break. I am so pissed right now. Sorry for those who did enjoy the concert, I am just a quality freak. Always has been.
100% agree on DNR.

Don't agree it's awuful. But i'm sure it could have be much better.

Its not Sony's fault. its the company that remastered. Sony took what they've been receiving. it was too late to turn back the release of the dvd.

Thats not the master tape they mentioned in the announcement. its the same source used for the broadcast and "the one" dvd and other promos. it has the songs titles. its copy of broadcast tape. And who knows what theestate indicates as "Master".
Also masters age, just like every other source and need to be renewed. And people should understan umatic masters are not the "holy grail" we hope for.

Don't be pissed. the show is what counts and it great. after the second time watching you irgnore the bad remastering.

^ You are forgetting that we did not know the video quality was shit, mister. Blaming the fans is just wrong, don't you think most fans would have LA in HQ instead of Wembley in this quality IF WE KNEW?

Of course most would pick LA. The Estate chose (?) to listen to the fans, releasing this video quality. I think it was a mistake done by them. When they saw the quality of the tape, they should pick another concert that was in really high quality instead.

YEs we didn't know. thats why we must be careful what we wish. wanting release of the Tour, ok. but not exactly specific city or date. So thats what this teached us. It did came bit harsh, but thats how it turned out. I don't blame no one, just saying, because i'm a smartass.
thats why i say, no more " I want Monza", "I want NY". Just "WE want that Tour". they should decide which one is best for release.
We still don't know in what quality they have any of the LA shows.

this is thread about the quality, right? we don't criticize the performance here. No one here said they don't like the dvd over-all.
 
I just watched the original DVD on my Blu-Ray player and my 55 inch HD 3D TV; it was awful. It really made me mad. I could not enjoy one bit of the show. The noise reduction that was done is soo distracting. It's ugly, and don't get me started when it comes to the bonus features. Mastertape of Yokohama? Just give me a big break. That's hilarious.

Sony, you failed once again. I think it's better for the estate to shut down all the future releases. MJ is not longer with us and if he was he would have bitchslapped Sony three times.

This Is It was the best release, after that they shoul have quit and release INVINCIBLE outtakes.

We will never get a Michael Jackson concert in Full High Definition. Nobody has an old 4:3 TV. Even my grandma has a Flat screen tv.

Give me a break. I am so pissed right now. Sorry for those who did enjoy the concert, I am just a quality freak. Always has been.
Do you seriously believe that they should have released Invincible outtakes? Do you really think the fans would've enjoyed Invincible outtakes over a real official release of a Bad Tour concert? There is absolutely nothing that the fans have wanted more in the past than new demos and new concert footage, and NOT from the Invincible era. The estate listened to what the fans asked for and now we have a real Bad Tour 1988 concert.
 
Do you seriously believe that they should have released Invincible outtakes? Do you really think the fans would've enjoyed Invincible outtakes over a real official release of a Bad Tour concert? There is absolutely nothing that the fans have wanted more in the past than new demos and new concert footage, and NOT from the Invincible era. The estate listened to what the fans asked for and now we have a real Bad Tour 1988 concert.

We live in 2012. Michael was an innovator and that part of him should be honored.

Bad Tour yes, I agree that it's legendary. But please use the best quality you can find. In my opinion a VHS release in this digital age is totally unacceptable. Michael's show should be enjoyed in the highest quality available.
 
This is ridiculous. Fans WANTED Wembley, specifically July 16. The estate listened to what they said. If the Estate had chosen a different concerts, fans would have bitched that they wanted Wembley. We all know that this is sourced from a VHS tape. If you watch it on a giant HD TV, you are quite frankly an idiot. No television in the world could make a VHS tape look high definition. Most people are watching them on smaller, normal sized TVs.

Now here you're 100% right. We are idiots that we thrown out old tvs out.
My old home camcorder recordings, from video 8 => vhs SP => copy in vhs EP speed, look better.
NO ONE EXPECTS perfect or High Definition from this remastered dvd. Ok?

I'm not criticizing the the whole package. I have it and i like it.
I don't blame other fans for the wembley dvd.

Just the dvd wasn't remastered with respect.
 
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BTW, for those who have a 16/9 TV - as most of us I think - set your DVD/BLU RAY player to display the video in 4/3 format (original) otherwise the automatic upscale at 16/9 is horrible.

I tried both :
4/3 upscale to 16/9 : horrible, blurry image etc
display in 4/3 : the quality is more than watchable. It is very good. Yeah yeah there are some bugs some time but it is minor.

I know we have a lot of specialist here.... I was just saying :D
 
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I think it would've worked if the Estate notified the fans to enlighten us on how the Wembley quality would be.

Think about the situation:

Most fans want Wembley

Most fans says LA is good too, but still want Wembley as nr. 1

Estate says LA is a better choice because of very high quality

Most fans gets angry and says show us Wembley

Estate shows us this lq Wembley (not full ofc, just sample or whatever)

Most fans agree that this quality is very bad and that LA would be a better choice


But does the estate have the full L.A concert in HD? Cause if they do they could always still release it. It's not too late
 
I just watched the original DVD on my Blu-Ray player and my 55 inch HD 3D TV; it was awful. It really made me mad. I could not enjoy one bit of the show. The noise reduction that was done is soo distracting. It's ugly, and don't get me started when it comes to the bonus features. Mastertape of Yokohama? Just give me a big break. That's hilarious.

Sony, you failed once again. I think it's better for the estate to shut down all the future releases. MJ is not longer with us and if he was he would have bitchslapped Sony three times.

This Is It was the best release, after that they shoul have quit and release INVINCIBLE outtakes.

We will never get a Michael Jackson concert in Full High Definition. Nobody has an old 4:3 TV. Even my grandma has a Flat screen tv.

Give me a break. I am so pissed right now. Sorry for those who did enjoy the concert, I am just a quality freak. Always has been.

What a ridiculous comment.

I'm not prepared to have the Estate stopping releasing such brilliant concerts just because a few fans have to constantly complain and overreact. Yes, the quality is not HD, it's not perfect - but we've know this is how it would be from the beginning. The source of the video is a tatty 24 year old VHS for crying out loud!

The Wembley performance was SO good that it would be criminal to not share it with the the public, no matter how bad the video quality is - and it really isn't as bad as some are making out, considering the source. It's more than watchable.

And all HDTV's have the option to unstretch the picture and watch in 4:3.
 
You can look at this in two ways

1. The quality is not HD or HQ so therefore it's pile of crap
2. For something that's come from a 25 year old VHS tape the quality is pretty decent
 
You can look at this in two ways

1. The quality is not HD or HQ so therefore it's pile of crap
2. For something that's come from a 25 year old VHS tape the quality is pretty decent

I not sure what to make of this concert , It does look pretty much like one of those old youtube videos
i am surprised why Sony have chosen to release this despite all the screams for it. Audio is great , his voice
is great , altho i think on some Dangerous concerts he sounds better, especially in slower songs like She's out of
my life and IJCSLY. Im pretty sure also Michael Jackson would not have released this , however i do love it
for the audio , Im also pretty sure there MJ never intended for the concerts to be released in the first place otherwise
he wouldve done so many many years before , around the time of the tour even or just after. But im happy with a concert release mostly.
 
I not sure what to make of this concert , It does look pretty much like one of those old youtube videos
i am surprised why Sony have chosen to release this despite all the screams for it. Audio is great , his voice
is great , altho i think on some Dangerous concerts he sounds better, especially in slower songs like She's out of
my life and IJCSLY. Im pretty sure also Michael Jackson would not have released this , however i do love it
for the audio , Im also pretty sure there MJ never intended for the concerts to be released in the first place otherwise
he wouldve done so many many years before , around the time of the tour even or just after. But im happy with a concert release mostly.

Best live vocals of IJCSLY I've ever heard on the Wembley DVD.
 
Funny how a lot are fixated on L.A. for some reason. They probably also have full u-matic shows for a Minneapolis or an Atlanta or a Barcelona. Just because we've seen 12 minutes of it doesn't mean it should be the one everyone wants :D

I'd love MSG because Steven Stevens and Tatiana.
 
Hunterr;3710789 I'd love MSG because Steven Stevens and Tatiana.[/QUOTE said:
I'd love MSG cause SMooth Criminal and The Way You Make Me Feel was sung live that night
 
An ideal world would have this as a standalone package:

-1 full show from first leg (I'm fine with it being Yokohama)
-1 full show from U.S. legs ('cause of the stage and slightly more intimate show)
-1 full show from European stadium (Wembley...or Rome)
-1 new documentary or lot's of behind the scenes and rehearsal footage
-2 disc audio CD featuring all songs performed on the tour. They can be from various shows (similar to a GENESIS live album released not too long ago. Each song was from a different city of the tour)

But whatever
 
An ideal world would have this as a standalone package:

-1 full show from first leg (I'm fine with it being Yokohama)
-1 full show from U.S. legs ('cause of the stage and slightly more intimate show)
-1 full show from European stadium (Wembley...or Rome)
-1 new documentary or lot's of behind the scenes and rehearsal footage
-2 disc audio CD featuring all songs performed on the tour. They can be from various shows (similar to a GENESIS live album released not too long ago. Each song was from a different city of the tour)

But whatever

that would have been too expensive - thinking every DVD is on average $15. So that would have been priced around $75 probably too expensive for many fans.
 
It would be worth it. Other artists have releases that cost that much and more (Complete Elvis Presley Masters - 30 discs, over $1000!), so why not Michael?
 
To the fans complaining about quality - would you rather have nothing - no video release of the tour at all over what has been offered?

If that was the case, some fans will still complain...smh
 
To the fans complaining about quality - would you rather have nothing - no video release of the tour at all over what has been offered?

If that was the case, some fans will still complain...smh

No but you see, lets say the quality was good, or perfect... then everyone would complain why they didnt choose Wembely and we'd be hearing constant bickering of "Wembley is what we asked for", "Wembley was Bad Tour in its prime", "$ony are greedy bastards that never listen to us"... its pathetic lol
 
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