Wembley DVD Critique /Quality and other prefered concerts over Wembley go here

[zhelva]

if you are saying the amateur video recording has the same quality than the Wembley DVD ; you need to go ASAP to an Ophthalmologist.

I agree.

I didn't even notice the quality because I was so MESMERIZED by him and his performance, it's an amazing show! And to be honest, even if the quality is not perfect I'd definitely NOT say that it is unwatchable, far from that! :S

 

[IMWhizzle]

I agree.


I didn't even notice the quality because I was so MESMERIZED by him and his performance, it's an amazing show! And to be honest, even if the quality is not perfect I'd definitely NOT say that it is unwatchable, far from that! :S

Are you blaming me for having a 55 inch modern tv? Well, I'm sorry for having that.

 

[AlwaysThere]

The closest we've ever gotten to a perfect release, and fans are still ungrateful. Sad, really.

 

[zhelva]

Are you blaming me for having a 55 inch modern tv? Well, I'm sorry for having that.

No, we just have to accept the fact that this was the best they had and enjoy it. If your tv is too big then watch it on the computer. I'm sure you watched lots of youtube videos on smaller screen and enjoyed them.

 

[IMWhizzle]

No, we just have to accept the fact that this was the best they had and enjoy it. If your tv is too big then watch it on the computer. I'm sure you watched lots of youtube videos on smaller screen and enjoyed them.

Never, my computer isn't connected to my surround set.

I am a quality freak and as far as I know I am allowed to have an opinion in the right thread.

I'm just disappointed. And I am allowed to express my feelings. No need for members to attack me.

 

[Lorraine]

Anyone complaining about the quality should really think about what they are saying. So what that it isn't perfect?
We have been so lucky to have this at all, I love it.. everything about it even the quality, personally I think it adds "Realness" to the actual age of the concert... Just like i've aged since being there that night :lol:

 

[zhelva]

Never, my computer isn't connected to my surround set.

I am a quality freak and as far as I know I am allowed to have an opinion in the right thread.

I'm just disappointed. And I am allowed to express my feelings. No need for members to attack me.

I'm sorry if it turned out as an attack, that wasn't my intention. I hope there are no hard feelings.
I just wanted to point out that the quality shouldn't be such an issue because at the end it's the performance that counts, that's all.

 

[Smooth72]

I'm sorry if it turned out as an attack, that wasn't my intention. I hope there are no hard feelings.
I just wanted to point out that the quality shouldn't be such an issue because at the end it's the performance that counts, that's all.

Someone please answer one question for me. Why does the live CD sound so much better than the DVD? I playing it through the same source my Bose system. The live CD is incredible the sound on the DVD is not even close to the CD. Thanks

 

[ivy]

Are you blaming me for having a 55 inch modern tv? Well, I'm sorry for having that.

I honestly do not understand why it looks unwatchable on your 55 inch TV while it looks okay and totally watchable on 42 to 46 inch TVs. And how do you explain the DVD being unwatchable on a 55 inch screen but being totally watchable on an average 22 feet tall to 52 feet wide cinema screen? Are you sure that you aren't exaggerating a little bit?

 

[MJ5]

In my opinion:

Bad Tour:
+ Best Vocals, More Live Songs
+ Much more Energy in Performance
- but Less Choreographies and Dancing

Dangerous Tour:
+ Best Dancing
- bit less energy (still very great)
- less live

History Tour:
+ dancing like @Dangerous Tour
- nearly nothing live

All in all:
Its great to have one Bad Tour 88 Concert and one Dangerous Tour Concert!

A bad 99 LA concert and Dangerous Tour 93 would be interesting, but thats it

 

[OnirMJ]

I watched the concert twice. It is amazing. Quality is million times better than I expected, I'm more than satisfied. Much better than Vision DVD.

 

[LLCz]

Anyone else happy that this isn't 40% audience shots like Bucharest and Munich?

 

[HIStory]

Anyone else happy that this isn't 40% audience shots like Bucharest and Munich?

Yeah, I'm glad it's all Michael. I have nothing against audience shots, they kind of help conveying the atmosphere, the hysteria etc. but I'm even more interested in Michael.

 

[code753cr]

The closest we've ever gotten to a perfect release, and fans are still ungrateful. Sad, really.

Fans are very grateful. We just are very disappointed with the restoration of the concert and poorly mixed 5.1 channels. You don't have to call us ungrateful and sad, don't disrespect us. We are allowed to share our opinions. This is a critique thread. This is not close to a perfect release. A perfect release wouldn't have this quality. This isn't DVD quality, it's VHS quality "restored". We love the performance, maybe sometimes not the angles or the quality but we know it's better than nothing and we accepted that. Many of you guys are talking about people complaining and not critiquing it or talking about the quality...if your not then go you should go to the other threads.

 

[Pentum]

Anyone else happy that this isn't 40% audience shots like Bucharest and Munich?

Yeah. I almost missed a little more crowd shots, LOL!

 

[PoP]

I'm very grateful enough I had a blast watching the DVD. I checked for picture sizes on my 40' HD TV, it was full enough to see the show. I'm not gonna complain.

 

[IMWhizzle]

I honestly do not understand why it looks unwatchable on your 55 inch TV while it looks okay and totally watchable on 42 to 46 inch TVs. And how do you explain the DVD being unwatchable on a 55 inch screen but being totally watchable on an average 22 feet tall to 52 feet wide cinema screen? Are you sure that you aren't exaggerating a little bit?

Do your homework. The difference between 42 inch and 55 inch is huge.

And people who went to the Spike Lee film admitted that Man In The Mirror looked awful.

 

[IMWhizzle]

Fans are very grateful. We just are very disappointed with the restoration of the concert and poorly mixed 5.1 channels. You don't have to call us ungrateful and sad, don't disrespect us. We are allowed to share our opinions. This is a critique thread. This is not close to a perfect release. A perfect release wouldn't have this quality. This isn't DVD quality, it's VHS quality "restored". We love the performance, maybe sometimes not the angles or the quality but we know it's better than nothing and we accepted that. Many of you guys are talking about people complaining and not critiquing it or talking about the quality...if your not then go you should go to the other threads.

Well said. Couldn't say it better.

 

[Eric]

Anyone else happy that this isn't 40% audience shots like Bucharest and Munich?

Actually, I knid of missed the crowd shots. Crowd shots give a sense of what it like to be there. There also weren't many full stage wide shots. This concert wasn't filmed with the intention of being released, so I understand why it was shot this way.

 

[lom kit]

No one is expert here. I don't remember any claimed he is.
I know what to look at. I know where and what did they wrong.

For most of you its Michael dancing around in color.

those who complined listed pretty long list of the MISTAKES that have been done.

All the happy not complainer do is remind us over and over that this is 24 old vhs. that they enjoined the concert !!!!!wrong thread dudes and gals!!!!!!
no one is blaming the estate or Sony. Its the restoration guys we blame. so no need to tell me "we could be without in the end".



@ivy
do you see why it is pointless to me? same arguments, without even get why we complain. even though i repeated gain and again why we complain. thats why i said don't post here.

And its not disrecpectful to say "it pointless", cause thats how i feel. it was directed to myself actually to stop argue with you here.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Fans are very grateful. We just are very disappointed with the restoration of the concert and poorly mixed 5.1 channels. You don't have to call us ungrateful and sad, don't disrespect us. We are allowed to share our opinions. This is a critique thread. This is not close to a perfect release. A perfect release wouldn't have this quality. This isn't DVD quality, it's VHS quality "restored". We love the performance, maybe sometimes not the angles or the quality but we know it's better than nothing and we accepted that. Many of you guys are talking about people complaining and not critiquing it or talking about the quality...if your not then go you should go to the other threads.

I'm not saying everyone is ungrateful, I didn't mean to come off that way. I apologize for anyone who I may have offended. I'm simply saying that, given the source, they did the best they can. This is close to a perfect release in the sense that the Estate pretty much did exactly what the fans wanted: new, untouched demos and Michael's Wembley performance, the one fans wanted.

My main point is that people seem surprised that the quality is like this. We all knew it wasn't going to be DVD quality, so why complain about it? And I'm personally tired of seeing, "Well, we would have preferred seeing LA". Had they opted to release LA, fans would have complained that they "wanted Wembley" the same way that they're complaining about LA, especially if Birchey leaked the Wembley multitrack snippets. Fans asked for Wembley for years upon years, and the Estate gave it to us. So why do we complain about it? The Estate gave us their reasoning behind the source of the DVD, when they didn't need to. So why do people keep talking as if they expected DVD quality? We all knew what we were getting, and complaining about it will get us absolutely nothing.

Odds are, the Estate won't release LA at all. If they do, it'll be far off in the future. Our enjoyment of an otherwise amazing DVD is clouded by our want and demand for what we think would have made Bad 25 better. If we pushed away our desires and focused on the release itself, we would all see just how amazing this release is.

Also, for people watching the Wembley DVD on HD TVs: a VHS tape on an HD television is going to look absolutely terrible. DVD is 720x480, while full HD is 1920x1080. The DVD is going to be INCREDIBLY upscaled, making it blockier and blurry. I know that upscaling may work with normal DVDs, but this isn't a normal DVD. Watch it on a computer, where the resolution is normal.

 

[Krshna28]

Regardless of quality, the Bad Tour DVD is still the best home video release of all time!!!!!


The sound is excellent and creates a great atmosphere!!!!

The picture is good enough to feel the greatness of Michael!!!

But I do prefer Siedah Garrett to Sheryl Crow!!!!

 

[timbit]

Just watched the first 3 songs on my 50" Samsung and it is more than watchable. Is anyone having issue with the volume of their subwoofer? I had to go over and turn the volume up full on the sub itself to get it to kick anything out. If I leave it like that the next thing I watch will crumble the house. I thought if it was 5.1 it would be great.

 

[qbee]

Mod note
As far as I can see there is only One person stating the DVD should Not have been released at all for the fans. The others are just discussing disatifaction with the quality of the DVD. NOW just just to remind everyone. That is the purpose and reason for this thread - For critical discussion about the DVD pro or con. So please no comments of its pointless to discuss or that those who dont like the quality are lesser fans. etc etc. Regardless of the quality Im sure many are still happy the concert was released if just for the historical value and being able to see Michael perform. That doesnt mean they have to be satisfied with the quality issues of the DVD. You are more than welcome to debate or discuss the issue but please no personal attcks over each others opinions.

Please read the description of this thread clearly posted on Top

This thread is for members who wish to critique the DVD and discuss the quality and technical aspects of the Wembley DVD. Pro or Con . Also to Discuss what other concerts you prefer over this release and any other critique about the DVD. Please try to keep all discussions of this nature in here so as not to derail threads created for other topical discussions of BAD25.

Any post stating quality shouldn't be critiqued or discussed will be deleted _That is the purpose of this thread

 

[ivy]

Do your homework. The difference between 42 inch and 55 inch is huge.

And people who went to the Spike Lee film admitted that Man In The Mirror looked awful.

do your homework. 22 feet x 52 feet is a lot huger than 55 inch and the people that saw MITM said the close ups looked fine and the wide shots weren't that good. None of them called it unwatchable like you did. And please watch your tone. There's no reason to be disrespectful and use tone such as "do your homework". (I'll return the tone )

Fans are very grateful.

I'm sorry but the fans that use overly negative tone, words as well as go and say stuff like it shouldn't be released and so on aren't grateful. There's a difference between criticism and exaggerated negativity. Although some people make valid points and criticism (such as showing a certain frame and mentioning what is not good) some people are in an exaggerated negativity mode.

No one is expert here. I don't remember any claimed he is.

if no one is expert here then on what basis you criticize the restoration guys. Do you even know the original source to determine if they did a good or bad job? Isn't this again another example of fans thinking they know everything and they know the best?

same arguments, without even get why we complain. even though i repeated gain and again why we complain. thats why i said don't post here.

as I said everyone has a right to express their opinion here. even though it might be the same argument and your points might be looked over. I'm sorry the discussion isn't to your standards and not everyone is talking about colors, saturation and so on but regardless they are free to express their opinions.

and you want me to be honest? If there's a yellow stage light which makes the clothes look yellowish, I find the fans suggestions to correct that yellow tint to make the clothes bleached white not good. It's overkill. It's not genuine. If the lights make it yellow, red, blue whatever let us watch the way it is. I even feel like no one here ever attended to a real life concert. Similarly frame by frame evaluation is overkill too. You are expected to watch a concert, watch the performance and not stop every frame in trying to find mistakes and what you can do better. You are actually making this worse for yourself. While we are enjoying the performance, you are fixated on the yellow tint, the camera flashes and so on. And as I said some stuff are just pure exaggeration. At least you (lom kit) were able to move on and watch the second time without focusing that much on quality, some are still fixated on why they can't get a HQ on their big screen TV while the source is clearly identified as Pre-HD even on the booklet. And you wonder why people keep saying it's a "24 year old VHS". That's why. Because some still expect a Blu-ray quality from it and it seems like valid point to remind that this is not HQ and their expectations and criticism isn't even realistic.

 

[Rudolf]

I actually feel they tried to color grade it making it look "cinematic". Hence sometimes whites are so weird to me at least. But making a VHS look cinematic is really not very good decision lol. By cinematic I mean something like this looking -

Yeah also bleaching white is lame and a poor example by me of course, but you get the point I hope. See example posted by Code. They did alter the colors. Was it really right?

Before Enhanced:

After Enhanced (Final DVD Quality):

 

[XgenDaNcEs]

Ok I think people are saying it looks bad on a huge HDTV because the DVD is 480p while their screen are made for 1080p, basically whats happening is the video is being stretched to fit the screen, then when i play the DVD as "original size" the video is a smaller square in the center of the whole screen. Its clearer but smaller, while on a 4:3 TV it plays full screen without being stretched, making the show more enjoyable for people who worry about quality.

 

[IMWhizzle]

Ok I think people are saying it looks bad on a huge HDTV because the DVD is 480p while their screen are made for 1080p, basically whats happening is the video is being stretched to fit the screen, then when i play the DVD as "original size" the video is a smaller square in the center of the whole screen. Its clearer but smaller, while on a 4:3 TV it plays full screen without being stretched, making the show more enjoyable for people who worry about quality.

Is plays on its full aspect ratio on my tv. So it depends which tv you're watching it on.

 

[ivy]

Yeah also bleaching white is lame and a poor example by me of course, but you get the point I hope. See example posted by Code. They did alter the colors. Was it really right?

I will not able to talk in appropriate terms but I hope you'll understand what I mean. Did they sharpen the blacks? I understand that you are complaining about the yellowish / greenish tint but could it be the afterfact of whatever they did? And if I have to compare those tho pictures, I actually prefer the restoration one. Why? Perhaps the colors might not be optimal but it's clearly has a lot more detail. The background isn't blurry and you can even see the creases in Michael's shirt clearly. Probably there are some trade-off in the restoration business and everything would not be perfect.

 

[Hunterr]

*Random thoughts ahead*

Ok, watched it.

I found the DVD to be VERY watchable. Screenshots don't do it justice and make it look worse than it is.
However, it's not very good looking. It's tolerable.

Also, they obviously used a different show for BEAT IT (from the 15th?).
And obviously, OBVIOUSLY they inserted crowd shots at the beginning of the show that were shot on FILM. FILM.
It's blatantly obvious that the DVD menu and the inserted crowd shots were shot on FILM.
That's not be saying OH, THEY ALSO GOT A FULL SHOW ON FILM. That's just me saying HAY, they had someone shooting film of crowd shots (I mean, there's plenty of crowd stuff in APOM and MITM from Moonwalker, so of course they'd have a lot of crowd shots to pick from).

*Really hopes there's some full show out there from any date shot on film*

...lost my train of thought...oh yeah.

I'm curious if either they dumbed down the performance of TWYMMF or didn't edit it much at all. It's obvious the footage doesn't look like the main feature (from the 16th).
Also, with using BEAT IT from another date, I would have preferred if they just simply branded this release as LIVE AT WEMBLEY.
They could have then used footage from 15th and 16th, and mixed and matched the audio and video based on what they felt was a better shot/dance move/performance, in addition to the added crowd shots shot on FILM.
I kind of would have preffered if they edited in TWYMMF and MITM from the 15th...


Anyway, it was very enjoyable to watch, even if I was longing for extra cameras to capture the magic (ie Yokohama).


CAN'T WAIT to edit together a DVD featuring all pro-shot footage!