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DuranDuran
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I've seen people on Youtube saying that Terence Trent D'Arby/Sananda is better than both Mike & Prince.
DIRTYDIANA☆
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I love Prince, but I think his music sounds the same..If you hear one Prince song, you've heard them all..and I can't stand when people say that Prince is better than MJ just because he can play every instrument..but I guess it's a matter of taste..imo MJ is better than Prince, but it's close..
HIStory
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And I have seen people say on YT that Justin Bieber is as good as Michael. LOL.
HIStory
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Well, in art, the subjectivity is there in every kind of judgment - whether it's the judgment of critics or the public. That's why I said "to me" Prince lacks something that Michael has. Call it "magic" or something else. It's just that Michael takes me to another world. I have never had that feeling about Prince, although, like I said, I admit technically he's a great, great musician with a lot of talent. Yes, other people may feel differently, but I can only talk about my own feelings - I hope you noticed the "to me" in my original statement.....
HIStory
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MattyJam
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DirtyDianaMJ☆;2780579 said:
Not true. How does Crystal Ball sound like Face Down? Or Zannalee sound like Condition Of The Heart?
You're talking about a guy who can play funk, blues, pop, jazz, rock and soul.
If there's one thing you can't take away from Prince, it's that he's versatile.
MattyJam
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The better dancer? Michael.
I would put MJ's dancing skills under "showman".
mjscarousal
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Michael Jackson fans have horrible taste in music
DuranDuran
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I take it you've never heard of David Bowie, Sun Ra, P-Funk, Grace Jones, or Madonna.
redcrush
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That's more like a horrible generalization rather than an unpopular opinion.
Also, my classical & romantic composers would like a word with you.
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ShadowMaster
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nope ..i think she's the female version of madonna....
hold on are those 2 women ? :smilerolleyes:
smoothcriminal12
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lol u high?
redcrush
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Please enlighten us.
arXter
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One factor is that Prince had a greater influence on the music itself (forgetting commercialism, cultural impacts and whatnot.)
I'll repeat what I said in your thread over at Max Jax:
I don't think Mike had that big an influence on music itself as did the likes of JB, Stevie, Marvin, Rick James, the jazz fusion acts (Earth, Wind & Fire, Crusaders) or even Prince. In this respect, these cats' "sound" was much more dependant on them as exemplary musicians (multi-faceted, too), than Mike's sound was to his music.
Prince virtually crafted the Minneapolis sound all by himself, and went on to inspire not only other artists but dedicated musicians (from drummers to keyboardists to programmers) and many producers within not only the realm of modern soul, funk & contemporary r&b, but also electronic music.
Mike's significant individual impact on music, as we constantly bring up, is his vocals. Other aspects of 'his' music that went on to influence musicians and producers are heavily indebted to all the other brilliant minds that crafted Mike's music from writers to producers, to session musicians, to engineer Bruce Swedien.
This is the gist of why I think that (of what little) objectivity points towards Prince being the greater musician.
I'll repeat what I said in your thread over at Max Jax:
I don't think Mike had that big an influence on music itself as did the likes of JB, Stevie, Marvin, Rick James, the jazz fusion acts (Earth, Wind & Fire, Crusaders) or even Prince. In this respect, these cats' "sound" was much more dependant on them as exemplary musicians (multi-faceted, too), than Mike's sound was to his music.
Prince virtually crafted the Minneapolis sound all by himself, and went on to inspire not only other artists but dedicated musicians (from drummers to keyboardists to programmers) and many producers within not only the realm of modern soul, funk & contemporary r&b, but also electronic music.
Mike's significant individual impact on music, as we constantly bring up, is his vocals. Other aspects of 'his' music that went on to influence musicians and producers are heavily indebted to all the other brilliant minds that crafted Mike's music from writers to producers, to session musicians, to engineer Bruce Swedien.
This is the gist of why I think that (of what little) objectivity points towards Prince being the greater musician.
mjscarousal
Proud Member
^^^ I cant believe anyone would ask one to challenge that... its very self explained. Any music lover knows this. Prince is the better musician. MJ plays some instruments but he really isnt a "musician"
Of course not ALL Michael Jackson fans have bad taste in music but judging by how bad this forum is when it comes to which music threads get the most replies and the music that mostly interest MJ fans from what I have observed on MJ boards and just in general they tend to because there mostly into whats popular ditto because Michael Jackson is popular but some of them need to really BROADEN what they listen to.
Of course not ALL Michael Jackson fans have bad taste in music but judging by how bad this forum is when it comes to which music threads get the most replies and the music that mostly interest MJ fans from what I have observed on MJ boards and just in general they tend to because there mostly into whats popular ditto because Michael Jackson is popular but some of them need to really BROADEN what they listen to.
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I wouldn't say that. The Minneapolis sound was a local movement going on at the time and Prince was the one to bring it to the masses. Flyte Tyme existed as a group long before The Time and Jam & Lewis were honing the Mineappolis funk sound before Prince even released For You.
I think Prince gets too much credit for the Mineappolis sound. Besides, George Clinton was the first person to replicate the horn section of a funk band using a synth - which is really all there is to the Mineappolis sound. Prince, Jam & Lewis and Jesse Johnson just took it to new levels.
As for Michael, I feel he is very much an exception the the rule when it comes to defining who can seriously be called a "musician". Okay, he doesn't really play an instrument, but the man is a genius, he writes and creates music in his head and replicates the sounds he hears using his God-given voice. Anybody who solely composed Who Is It and Billie Jean is an amazing musician.
arXter
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Maybe it would do it justice to call it.. The Prince Sound. No doubt there was a movement before the purple one, but to only say that he "brought it to the masses" is greatly undervaluing his own creations and evolution from the sounds of his influencers.
"Just" took it to new levels? My whole point in Prince's genius is his evolving of the sounds into what we now know of as the Minneapolis sound. And to put Jam & Lewis et al on the same scope as Prince's revolution is far-fetched, in my opinion. And I have major love for Flyte Tyme and what they later did with pop music.
But what Prince, much like Stevie, did was fuse together his own unique blend of many different styles. Soul, funk, rock, folk (Joni Mitchell), jazz, new wave, and electronic developments at the time (e.g. drum programming - which he made unique and influential use of) was part of creating the flavours that can only be heard on Prince-produced material. This went on to influence many, including his own 80s generation and even the Flyte Tyme productions. On top of it all, his vocals, like in Mike's case, were also influential.
As for his particular influences, that's a massive discussion which would include many different revolutionaries in all the genres listed above. Much like Mike.. or anyone else in their league for that matter.
And no one is doubting Mike's musical prowess and I'll be the first to reiterate what you said about his compositional genius, but when it comes to musical-impact comparisons with the likes of Stevie and Prince, to me, like mjscarousal said, the distinction is blatant, if not by their respective influences on later genres, producers, instrumentalists etc. alone.
"Just" took it to new levels? My whole point in Prince's genius is his evolving of the sounds into what we now know of as the Minneapolis sound. And to put Jam & Lewis et al on the same scope as Prince's revolution is far-fetched, in my opinion. And I have major love for Flyte Tyme and what they later did with pop music.
But what Prince, much like Stevie, did was fuse together his own unique blend of many different styles. Soul, funk, rock, folk (Joni Mitchell), jazz, new wave, and electronic developments at the time (e.g. drum programming - which he made unique and influential use of) was part of creating the flavours that can only be heard on Prince-produced material. This went on to influence many, including his own 80s generation and even the Flyte Tyme productions. On top of it all, his vocals, like in Mike's case, were also influential.
As for his particular influences, that's a massive discussion which would include many different revolutionaries in all the genres listed above. Much like Mike.. or anyone else in their league for that matter.
And no one is doubting Mike's musical prowess and I'll be the first to reiterate what you said about his compositional genius, but when it comes to musical-impact comparisons with the likes of Stevie and Prince, to me, like mjscarousal said, the distinction is blatant, if not by their respective influences on later genres, producers, instrumentalists etc. alone.
Taking it back from the usual Prince vs. Mike debate (but just to add my two-pence worth, Michael's the better artist, Prince is the better musician).
Unpopular opinions:
Betty Boo was the UK's most underated female pop star.
The music buying public are incredibly ageist.
Mariah Carey & Janet Jackson both drank something in 1996 that sucked them dry of any recording talent.
Madonna has handled her career almost perfectly (bar the Sex book!) and is the ideal example of how to be a superstar and not completely lose your mind.
Pretention is the worst thing in music or any music fan.
Unpopular opinions:
Betty Boo was the UK's most underated female pop star.
The music buying public are incredibly ageist.
Mariah Carey & Janet Jackson both drank something in 1996 that sucked them dry of any recording talent.
Madonna has handled her career almost perfectly (bar the Sex book!) and is the ideal example of how to be a superstar and not completely lose your mind.
Pretention is the worst thing in music or any music fan.
Not to start another Madonna/Janet marathon but Janet was much filthier than Madonna ever was aurally (no pun intended - well maybe a bit).
And if Madonna ever did make a sexy record, she remembered that the sex was secondary to the melody. E.g Justify My Love, Erotica - both incredibly sexy records but both brilliant in terms of melody & musicality.
The only time Janet got that balance spot on is with the filthy and brilliant if.
gerryevans
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That inexplicable "something" or what is also referred to as "it" or the "x" factor goes way beyond talent. I agree subjectivity plays heavily into it, and it's tied more into charisma, magnetism, likeability and a whole lot of other stuff that is well...inexplicable.
It's why a Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber and even Susan Boyle are phenomenons today, but others with equal talent are not.
I completely recognize Prince's talent and have loved some of his work, but I can just watch Michael stand still and be captivated. And I don't even know why. He just does it for me like no other entertainer, no matter how talented they are.
arXter
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That's the thing though, Tony. You call it filthy, I call it beautiful. I don't see why there needs to be some sort of balance between sexuality and toned-down euphemisms or forced subtleties.
Jam & Lewis outdid themselves when it came to Janet's melodies, especially in some of her more sexual tunes.
Janet
Any Time,
Any Place
MattyJam
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But very few of those styles were part of the Minneapolis sound. I would only really class his first four albums as true Minneapolis sound. The pop, rock, jazz and soul aspects of his music came when the purists started accusing Prince of selling out (with 1999 and PR).
Prince is adept at covering many different styles, but the only sound he can be given partial credit for inventing is the Mineappolis sound, which has nothing to do with jazz or rock or folk influences.
smoothcriminal12
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I got reported for this? Gave me negative CP? y'all actin' silly. Cuz I posted a possibly opinion to you guys you call me a troll? What's wrong wit you? Can't someone just say somethin'?
These people are sad. Tryin' to ruin my me.
Ahhh Arx! The old 'Anytime, Anyplace' argument!
A good example to use as that's where the balance was right, a beautiful but filthy record.
You think I'm using filthy in a bad sense. I'm not. I don't mind a filthy, dirty record. IF the record is good.
If the record is filthy but shit then the sex become gratuitious. E.g. Janet's Moist. Also, there is a line where it becomes uncomfortable to listen to:
Janet - Warmth
"My hands wrapped around
Stroking up and down
But nothing can compare to
The warmth of my mouth
I love every sound you make
When I'm down
Nothing can prepare you for
The warmth of my
Mouth against your mouth
Getting you aroused
Whisper in your ear
I think I'll take it further south
Kissing on your neck
Rubbing on your leg
Slide a little further up
I feel you get erect
And now we're flesh against flesh
Breathing on your chest
So anxious to touch it
My mouth is getting wet
Just like the water from the shore
Let your rain pour
Baby brace yourself for
My hands wrapped around
Stroking up and down (let's see how long you can last inside)
But nothing can compare to the warmth of my mouth
I love every sound you make
When I'm down (Just hear the water splash about)
But nothing can prepare you for
The warmth of my mouth
No place warmer than my mouth....
Start off slow
Circles
Then deeper and deep it goes
Kisses so sensual
Tasteful
I love giving you a show
Again, if this song was as funky as 'if' then I wouldn't mind. But the coolness, subtlety of 'Anytime, Anyplace' has been (ahem) sucked dry on this piece of pointless, tuneless, dirge created only for shock value.
A good example to use as that's where the balance was right, a beautiful but filthy record.
You think I'm using filthy in a bad sense. I'm not. I don't mind a filthy, dirty record. IF the record is good.
If the record is filthy but shit then the sex become gratuitious. E.g. Janet's Moist. Also, there is a line where it becomes uncomfortable to listen to:
Janet - Warmth
"My hands wrapped around
Stroking up and down
But nothing can compare to
The warmth of my mouth
I love every sound you make
When I'm down
Nothing can prepare you for
The warmth of my
Mouth against your mouth
Getting you aroused
Whisper in your ear
I think I'll take it further south
Kissing on your neck
Rubbing on your leg
Slide a little further up
I feel you get erect
And now we're flesh against flesh
Breathing on your chest
So anxious to touch it
My mouth is getting wet
Just like the water from the shore
Let your rain pour
Baby brace yourself for
My hands wrapped around
Stroking up and down (let's see how long you can last inside)
But nothing can compare to the warmth of my mouth
I love every sound you make
When I'm down (Just hear the water splash about)
But nothing can prepare you for
The warmth of my mouth
No place warmer than my mouth....
Start off slow
Circles
Then deeper and deep it goes
Kisses so sensual
Tasteful
I love giving you a show
Again, if this song was as funky as 'if' then I wouldn't mind. But the coolness, subtlety of 'Anytime, Anyplace' has been (ahem) sucked dry on this piece of pointless, tuneless, dirge created only for shock value.
144000
Proud Member
the definition of musician is highly subjective. i believe Michael is a better musician than Prince, because, sonic-wise, Michael's awareness of music seemed more in tune with nature. Prince, to me, is more mechanical. i don't think a musician is limited to an instrument outside the voice. i believe the voice is as much of an instrument, as a guitar.