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The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

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Just in on CNN..Breaking news...Murray negotiating surrender ....IDK if this has been posted yet...jsut saw on TV

sorry news source MSNBC
 
Ramona122003 said:
Tha information about Tohme has been proven to be false. Tohme went to the hospital with Jermaine and never went to Michael's house. He was with Jermaine because the two are friends.

Also, any story with Demerol has been proven to be false because Demerol was not even in Michael's house when he died. Tohma is also to my understanding not an actually doctor and can't even get drugs. I also find it hard to believe that with all the cameras and fans that surrounding Michael's house 24/7 that anyone could sneak into the house, give some a fatal OD of drugs, and leave again without anyone being the wiser.

The main reason I have personally seen for people turning Tohma into some mastermind is because most fans don't like him. He did some shady stuff, but so has Oxman who is currently helping Murray's defense team, yet I see no one accusing him of murder.
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Okay, calm down.

I wasn't accusing anyone or bringing any "IU discussion" in here.

What info was proven false? I just said he was at the hospital - true and he was with Jermaine during the announcement - true.

I never said he gave him Demerol, I know that's false. That was the initial report, which was later found to be Propofol. My point was that he was mentioned in the first reports that were done. I'd just like to know why.

And whoah, whoah, whoah, hold on - I never ever said anything about Tohme sneaking in and ODing him, LoL. And I never accused him of being a mastermind.

I just said that I hope they questioned him and checked him out. I hope they questioned Kai and Michael Amir and Lou Ferrigno and Zaldy too - That doesn't mean I think they killed Michael, lol.

Bottom line is - We don't know who he is or what his role in Michael's life was. We do know Michael feared him and he has a shady background. IMO, someone with as shady a background as he has should definitely be checked out.
 
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Ramona122003 said:
Also, any story with Demerol has been proven to be false because Demerol was not even in Michael's house when he died. Tohma is also to my understanding not an actually doctor and can't even get drugs. I also find it hard to believe that with all the cameras and fans that surrounding Michael's house 24/7 that anyone could sneak into the house, give some a fatal OD of drugs, and leave again without anyone being the wiser.
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I'm not even going to bother arguing about that either.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Beach,

What am I trying to say is that Murray should had told his lawyer exactly what happen. That includes the Propofol. Murray knew what he gave Michael and should had told his lawyer. Otherwise, he wouldn't be caught with is pants down.

Also, he did tell his lawyer because in the police interview he gave before Lee blew the whistle, he told the LAPD he gave Michael Propofol and where his doctor bag was. So, Cernoff cannot really claim that he didn't know unless he didn't read Murray's police's interview and Murray didn't tell him everything.

It was also the general public and the media that was blaming Demerol. The LAPD knew what was going on when they first talked to Murray and he told them the cocktail he gave them, Demerol not included. Demerol was also never found at his house to begin with, so the police had an idea on what the tox would look liked long before the general public or the media knew a thing. The only ones who were really in the dark was us.

Murray most likely changed his strategy when he realize that there was no drugs that Michael was taking himself, there were only drugs that Murray gave him found in his body, Propofol was the main cause of death along with another drug that he gave him, and he was in good physical shape.

He also might had done more research into Propofol and realize that his statement about Michael forming an addiction to it did not match up with actual Propofol addiction. Not to mention you wean people off of Propofol with pills if they do form an addiction, not other liquid medication.
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Yes, this all makes sense. I think what I am saying only is that his lawyer was answering questions and making a dispute before he realized what he was doing so he made a mistake there.

Either way, all the other things he did after that fact if proven to be true are more damaging than anything else. There is no excuse and I am surprised it is not being charged higher, but then again, I don't know what in all the investigation turned up.

As you have maintained, it is all Michaels body but there is also the fact that it could have still been prevented after it happened and thats why I want to know the accurate time line and what was done to and for Michael. It seems like we are waiting forever for this information and I only hope in the end we actually do receive it. Seems to me also that we may never know.
 
I was waiting for a news source like cnn. instead of tmz.

But manslaughter....? Some thorough investigation.....
 
I'm watching it on CNN right now, there's supposed to be a lot more to come.....

I PRAY FOR JUSTICE!!! Not manslaughter....
 
Beachlover said:
I also wonder if the 'tox' report we got was totally accurate regarding all the drugs. (Meaning....there are other drugs that are given during CPR and since he was seen by EMT and the Emergency Room things would have been given there as well. No one seems to have given the antagonist for pain killers which is a red flag for me. Was it given and not on the tox screen? I don't know. Just little things that can be a bigger deal in court later on.
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Thank you for your explanations. It's really helpful.

My understanding is that the official autopsy result we have are partial : they only stated what caused or was related to MJ's death. So the tox report we have is not the full tow report, IMO. There might have been other drugs, but as they were not involved in MJ's death, they were not on the official report.

Now I have questions :

Did Murray admit to giving ALL the drugs that were in this official report, or only some of them ? This is not clear for me , and he said that "nothing he gave should have killed Michael".

You explained the question of dilution and infusion earlier, that could be an explanation, or a part of an explanation.

The coroner's office said it was a homicide, IMO, ruling out the possibility that Michael took that medication himself.

Could Murray be implying that there was someone else ??? He admitted he gave the drugs, he apparently left Michael, and says he didn't give enough medication to kill Michael, so ???

Another question I have, is that when media first started talking about propofol, I remember many doctors saying that it would be a problem because the tox report would not show propofol, because it "disappears" from your system very quickly. Then the coroner is talking of "lethal amounts of propofol" found in MJ's system. What are we supposed to understand ?


I also heard and read a lot of statements saying that Michael must have been asleep or unconscious BEFORE being given propofol, because of the medication that he was given before propofol (according to Murray, and the tox report). What do you think about that ????

Sorry, I have many questions... and thanks to those who can answer them, or some of them !
 
My understanding is that the official autopsy result we have are partial : they only stated what caused or was related to MJ's death. So the tox report we have is not the full tow report, IMO. There might have been other drugs, but as they were not involved in MJ's death, they were not on the official report.
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the report by the corroner stated the cause of death and what was in his system.ye i do wonder what murray is trying to imply by the quote they keep using. what igave shoudlnt have killed him.

nother question I have, is that when media first started talking about propofol, I remember many doctors saying that it would be a problem because the tox report would not show propofol, because it "disappears" from your system very quickly. Then the coroner is talking of "lethal amounts of propofol" found in MJ's system. What are we supposed to understand ?
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u can find propofol in the organs. u have to know what u are looking for as it goes through the blood/system quickly but it can still be traced in organs

i dont believe mj would be in any state to demand anything considering what he had be given. although that is irrelevent.
 
2- 4 years IF the charge is IM soundmind said criminally negligent MS has alot stronger sentece although i dont know then u add the xtra charges of covering it up can we wait until the actual charges are know b4 worrying and frankly he has to be convicted first
 
Murray and involuntary manslaughter?

Is that all I'm hearing????
 
This is just the start of it. IF this thing goes to trial, IF theres ppl on the jury that want justice for Michael...etc. This is nothing right now- we have to wait it out and see how the jury will decide. Am I wrong???


the jury your either gonna have ppl that hate michael jackson, have ppl that think michael jackson is / was a drug addict, ppl who want justice.. this is such a high profile case and person that I doubt that theres gonna be someone who favors the victim because of who the victim is.


am i wrong here??
 
we wont know until charges are filied. mj faced 2 seperate changes in charges in 03-05 the media are dunning with iM cause tmz said that. no one really knows
 
bouee said:
Thank you for your explanations. It's really helpful.

My understanding is that the official autopsy result we have are partial : they only stated what caused or was related to MJ's death. So the tox report we have is not the full tow report, IMO. There might have been other drugs, but as they were not involved in MJ's death, they were not on the official report. That is my understanding also. It was never meant to be complete.

Now I have questions :

Did Murray admit to giving ALL the drugs that were in this official report, or only some of them ? This is not clear for me , and he said that "nothing he gave should have killed Michael".

You explained the question of dilution and infusion earlier, that could be an explanation, or a part of an explanation. I'd be guessing but it leaves room for user error. Take that for what it is worth.

The coroner's office said it was a homicide, IMO, ruling out the possibility that Michael took that medication himself. The drug was admittedly administered by Dr Murray.

Could Murray be implying that there was someone else ??? He admitted he gave the drugs, he apparently left Michael, and says he didn't give enough medication to kill Michael, so ???

Another question I have, is that when media first started talking about propofol, I remember many doctors saying that it would be a problem because the tox report would not show propofol, because it "disappears" from your system very quickly. Then the coroner is talking of "lethal amounts of propofol" found in MJ's system. What are we supposed to understand ?
Thats a hard question to answer because it can mean a number of things. Possibly that it was left running after the patients heart stopped beating or breathing and since he was no longer metabolizing the drug it accumulated in the blood stream.

I also heard and read a lot of statements saying that Michael must have been asleep or unconscious BEFORE being given propofol, because of the medication that he was given before propofol (according to Murray, and the tox report). What do you think about that ???? Another tough question. I have seen people in the hospital being given enough drugs to knock an elephant down and act like they were given an asprin. The human body is amazing and we are all different. One pill may knock you out and the next person can have 3 and still be awake. This is where medical records come in handy.

Sorry, I have many questions... and thanks to those who can answer them, or some of them !
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I hope I was able to clarify for you.

I feel like I need to post a disclaimer on each post that I do not defend Murray, but just question the facts.
 
Seven months of investigating, of building up the strongest possible case.....and just this......

I really am in the Twilight Zone.
 
I just heard on CNN that Conrad Murray will be arraigned tomorrow, Friday, at 1:30pm California time and 4:30 Eastern Standard Time. They didn't go into any details.

Definition of Arraignment:

A criminal proceeding at which the defendant is officially called before a court of competent jurisdiction, informed of the offense charged in the complaint, information, indictment, or other charging document, and asked to enter a plea of guilty, not guilty, or as otherwise permitted by law. Depending on the jurisdiction, arraignment may also be the proceeding at which the court determines whether to set bail for the defendant or release the defendant on his or her own recognizance.

Although the initial appearance of the arrested person before a magistrate is sometimes referred to as an arraignment, it is not a true arraignment, which only comes after the defendant has been both arrested and formally charged. In all but extremely rare cases, arraignment also takes place before any suppression hearings and the trial itself. The interests at issue in an arraignment are the defendant's right to know of the charges against him or her and the defendant's right to have adequate information from which to prepare a defense. The state also has an interest in having the defendant make a plea so it can prepare accordingly.
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...5045213109436990.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines
Jackson's Doctor Negotiates Surrender

LOS ANGELES—The attorney for Michael Jackson's doctor said he was negotiating his client's surrender to Los Angeles County authorities.

A statement Thursday from attorney Ed Chernoff said he was holding talks with the district attorney's office for the surrender of Conrad Murray.

Law-enforcement officials told the Associated Press that prosecutors plan to charge Dr. Murray with involuntary manslaughter for giving Mr. Jackson a powerful anesthetic that led to his overdose death in June.

Dr. Murray hasn't been charged yet, but another official said Dr. Murray was scheduled to be arraigned Friday. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the case's sensitivity.

Dr. Murray maintains that nothing he gave Mr. Jackson should have killed him.

Copyright 2010 Associated Press
 
nothing like what? he getting charged isnt that what u wanted. ppl need to drop the negativity or stay out of these threads. its gonna be hard enough
 
bouee said:
Thank you for your explanations. It's really helpful.

My understanding is that the official autopsy result we have are partial : they only stated what caused or was related to MJ's death. So the tox report we have is not the full tow report, IMO. There might have been other drugs, but as they were not involved in MJ's death, they were not on the official report.

Now I have questions :

Did Murray admit to giving ALL the drugs that were in this official report, or only some of them ? This is not clear for me , and he said that "nothing he gave should have killed Michael".

You explained the question of dilution and infusion earlier, that could be an explanation, or a part of an explanation.

The coroner's office said it was a homicide, IMO, ruling out the possibility that Michael took that medication himself.

Could Murray be implying that there was someone else ??? He admitted he gave the drugs, he apparently left Michael, and says he didn't give enough medication to kill Michael, so ???

Another question I have, is that when media first started talking about propofol, I remember many doctors saying that it would be a problem because the tox report would not show propofol, because it "disappears" from your system very quickly. Then the coroner is talking of "lethal amounts of propofol" found in MJ's system. What are we supposed to understand ?


I also heard and read a lot of statements saying that Michael must have been asleep or unconscious BEFORE being given propofol, because of the medication that he was given before propofol (according to Murray, and the tox report). What do you think about that ????

Sorry, I have many questions... and thanks to those who can answer them, or some of them !
Click to expand...



The tox was complete except they never gave the amount of each drug. All the drugs he was given was mention, even the drugs that didn't cause he death. There were also no pills in his body, so Michael could not had taken anything himself. Only propofol and another drug was listed as a cause of death, not the others. Murray's lawyer also never said anything about other drugs, not even the revival drug.

Murray admitted to everything in the tox. However, he wants to know the amount, which the tox didn't give. Murray claim to only have given Michael 25mg of propofol when he died. 25mg would no even put Michael to sleep for five minutes. Even with the other drugs, Michael would had woke up almost right away once the propofol wore off. Murray cannot claim there was someone else because he was suppose to go downstairs to get breakfast at 9am. He did not, which shows something went wrong before than and it made no sense that Michael wanted to sleep between 10 and 11am.

When the media first learn of propofol, they didn't know what the heck they were talking about most of the time. Those who talks about propofol not being found it the tox does not know that they can trace propofol as far as years. A person can die from something called Chronic Propofol Intoxication which is when you slowly poison your body with propofol over a period of years. That is how some people actually die of propofol addiction.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
nothing like what? he getting charged isnt that what u wanted. ppl need to drop the negativity or stay out of these threads. its gonna be hard enough
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It's not negativity hon it's realism. Dr, Conrad Murderer will be charged yes, but I bet you anything he will spend NO time in jail. He probably won't even get his licences taken away. All I'm saying is to prepare yourself.
 
Ramona122003 said:
The tox was complete except they never gave the amount of each drug. All the drugs he was given was mention, even the drugs that didn't cause he death. There were also no pills in his body, so Michael could not had taken anything himself. Only propofol and another drug was listed as a cause of death, not the others. Murray's lawyer also never said anything about other drugs, not even the revival drug.

Murray admitted to everything in the tox. However, he wants to know the amount, which the tox didn't give. Murray claim to only have given Michael 25mg of propofol when he died. 25mg would no even put Michael to sleep for five minutes. Even with the other drugs, Michael would had woke up almost right away once the propofol wore off. Murray cannot claim there was someone else because he was suppose to go downstairs to get breakfast at 9am. He did not, which shows something went wrong before than and it made no sense that Michael wanted to sleep between 10 and 11am.

When the media first learn of propofol, they didn't know what the heck they were talking about most of the time. Those who talks about propofol not being found it the tox does not know that they can trace propofol as far as years. A person can die from something called Chronic Propofol Intoxication which is when you slowly poison your body with propofol over a period of years. That is how some people actually die of propofol addiction.
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That is because there is no such thing as investigative reporting anymore. We only have jump on the bandwagon reporting.
 
babykinsilk05 said:
It's not negativity hon it's realism. Dr, Conrad Murderer will be charged yes, but I bet you anything he will spend NO time in jail. He probably won't even get his licences taken away. All I'm saying is to prepare yourself.
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No, we won't prepare ourselves.
 
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