The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

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I do not believe he screwed up. I'm sorry.
My mind doesn't allow me to ever believe this it seems. A cardiologist knows.
I can't help myself but my mind is always telling me Murray knew. But he obviously still didn't perform it.
The police and/or the DA have to find out why!!!
Unless Murray bought his dr. and never saw neither a school nor a University from the inside. There is NO WAY a cardiologist doesn't know. It's crazy seems my mind is laughing about me whenever I try to get only that possibility entering it.
Cardiologists usually have that in their automatical emergency content as a fix pattern... so they can't really act wrong anymore... that's how studied they are in CPR.
They would have to instantly stop and start the thinking process to get out of that pattern.

Ok I give up... but I can't help it... it's impossible I'll ever convince my mind to only give it the tiniest possibility to believe that could be true... that Murray just was in panic and did some unfortunate faults. I'll never believe that. I'm not able to...:no:


i feel the same. it's michael jackson. he's too important to have these kind of "mistakes" happen to him. idk much about the technical issues, but i still can't believe any of this happened. when i heard the news on the radio i was thinking why did they say his name? they could have said any other name in the entire world. why was it the most important/special person in my life?

the only thing i have to say is 4 years is not enough. do they realize what has been lost? he took away the life of someone who deserved life more than anyone else and by doing that he also drastically affected millions of people all over the world in a devastating way! not that every life isn't important, but when such a special person is taken away it becomes a global tragedy and the punishment should be in proportion to the resulting widespread desolation. i don't believe in capital punishment, but he should get life. this is too serious.
 
I truly, honestly don't mean to be rude to any of our dear USA MJ fans here, but please tell me... is this common practice in the United States? Do the authorities tell this much to tabloids , even given hours they will present a criminal in court? Is this... normal?

Really?????

So it seems those guys from TMZ had all the "conections". Maybe we should ask them who killed Michael Jackson and the guy is going to receive!!! :ermm:

This is unbelievable... I am lost of words.... :mello:

Not common practice but tabloids do not follow any regular case either. This is a high profile case, everything is different.

Furthermore I believe that there is distinction between telling or learning and giving or getting information. I think nobody is giving or telling them information but they are able to get and learn the information.

If this information (time of the arraignment) is true it does not necessarily mean the authorities (police or DA) gave this information - probably there are a bunch of court clerks (or office assistants etc) someplace that works on arranging, scheduling such events and/or access to that information. The source of the information could easily be a regular employee in the legal system with the ability to access such information.

now on a side note about TMZ - Harvey Levin (the person who runs it) is actually a lawyer who has also covered the OJ Simpson case , has been doing court/legal shows for a long time. So yes he apparently has good connections in the legal (courts, DA's, police etc) circles (and check the stories that they do about other celebrities as well - most of them are about legal issues). They also have connections with the Jackson family - they have directly named Joe, Randy, Katherine's lawyers and Estate's lawyers as sources. Furthermore they told that they are dedicated to follow MJ news and they are keeping this promise - today they were outside the courtroom, murray's lawyer's office, his girlfriends house and who knows where else.
 
beachlover a question for you

I don't remember where but I read someplace (or heard at TMZ chat) Murray said as MJ was fragile he did not move him to the ground but supported his back with one hand and did cpr with the other. Once again this might be totally a made up story but is this a possible form of doing CPR?


and another tidbit

on TMZ chat a few days ago they said the actual time between realizing that MJ is in trouble and call to 911 is 12 minutes. they said Murray gave them an estimated time (such as around 11:30) but the actual phone logs show a 12 minute difference. Once again I do not know if this is true or not either.
 
beachlover a question for you

I don't remember where but I read someplace (or heard at TMZ chat) Murray said as MJ was fragile he did not move him to the ground but supported his back with one hand and did cpr with the other. Once again this might be totally a made up story but is this a possible form of doing CPR?

I'd like Beachlover to answer this too. In all the years I've re-certed my caregiver grade CPR/First Aid... I've never heard anything like putting one hand on someone's back and the other hand to do the CPR. And we were told never to do it on a bed as well.

Just want to make sure that isn't something I don't know, but I'm assuming that would never be the correct way to do CPR....

Thanks for any info :)
 
I do not believe he screwed up. I'm sorry.
My mind doesn't allow me to ever believe this it seems. A cardiologist knows.
I can't help myself but my mind is always telling me Murray knew. But he obviously still didn't perform it.
The police and/or the DA have to find out why!!!
Unless Murray bought his dr. and never saw neither a school nor a University from the inside. There is NO WAY a cardiologist doesn't know. It's crazy seems my mind is laughing about me whenever I try to get only that possibility entering it.
Cardiologists usually have that in their automatical emergency content as a fix pattern... so they can't really act wrong anymore... that's how studied they are in CPR.
They would have to instantly stop and start the thinking process to get out of that pattern.

Ok I give up... but I can't help it... it's impossible I'll ever convince my mind to only give it the tiniest possibility to believe that could be true... that Murray just was in panic and did some unfortunate faults. I'll never believe that. I'm not able to...:no:



I afraid that is the case. If this was plan, do you think he would had done everything right to make sure that he could not be completely blame. Also, why would you kill someone using Propofol instead of more common drugs. As I have said many times, if he wanted to kill Michael, he could of pumped him full of illegal or painkiller and left IV needles in his room to stage an OD scene. He could leave the room and 'discover' Michael the next day dead.

Why would do something that leaves him in the open when he could had done everything to leave reasonable doubt and make people believe Michael really was an out of control addict. And why would he use the drugs that he gave him instead of the other doctor medicines that were in the house.

Everything Murray did from delaying 911, screwing up CPR, changing his timeline several times, forgetting about the phone calls he made, using a cell which can be track instead of a LAN line, leaving the room in the first place, given a patient too many drugs in a short period of time. This all points to not some clever plot, but someone who screwed up and then tried to cover his tracks. It would seem in his clean up that he didn't plan things out well, because everything is too freaking sloppy to be plan ahead of time.

Unless we go with the theory that Murray really is just a really dumb assassin. Either way, we will find out in time.
 
According to the leaked autopsy report Michael was not too thin for a man of his stature. Murray can make up any excuse he wants he turned the heat up to cover up the TOD, period.

Yes, I know but during the "early days" of the death there were reports (false autopsy reports?) that he weighed 112 lbs or something. So I just fell for the stories for a while. Until I came here.

Sorry Michael!
 
Sad to hear that he's not getting a tougher charge, e.g.: Criminally negligent manslaughter

"Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim. It is most common in the case of professionals who are grossly negligent in the course of their employment. An example is where a doctor fails to notice a patient's oxygen supply has disconnected and the patient dies (R v Adomako)." -Wikipedia

"In many jurisdictions such as California, malice may be found if gross negligence (criminally negligent homicide) amounts to wilful or depraved indifference to human life. In such a case, the wrongdoer may be guilty of second degree murder." -Wikipedia

This is just my small bit of research. Please correct me if I've got it wrong, regarding the laws.

Well, Mr. Murray will have to deal with the entire WORLD hating him for what he's done. How does he walk the streets? I'm just saying..
 
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OK so I wasn't here for a while, what happened? I see there's a whole section for this, dDid they finally charge Murray with something? Can someone update the first post with whatever the news is, this thread is loooong.
Thank you!
I for one can't wait for the trial to see how they're going to try to explain away all the inconsistencies.
 
The below is some random articles that I came across when googling. Only included some parts and highlighed some interesting points

----------------------------------------------------------------------

David Walgren, the deputy Los Angeles County district attorney charged with handling the Michael Jackson case has opted to proceed with a criminal complaint of involuntary manslaughter rather than attempt to obtain a grand jury indictment.

This means that the public would have a chance to look at the evidence which is placed before a judge who would then decide whether Dr Conrad Murray should stand trial. If he had gone by way of grand jury it would have been held behind closed doors. In the present case the need for transparency, to reassure the singer's millions of fans that justice is seen to be done, is vital.

Mark Geragos, a private criminal defense attorney who represented Jackson when he was facing charges of child molestation, said the decision suggests prosecutors are unsure they could persuade a grand jury that Murray was criminally liable for Jackson's death.

"This may be one of those rare cases where a grand jury of citizens is not ready to attach criminal liability to the doctor," Geragos said. "They may feel they are better off in front of a judge."

In truth and probably closer to the reality of this case Harland Braun, a celebrity defense attorney, disagrees saying that the move shows that prosecutors are confident that their evidence and witnesses could withstand cross-examination and public scrutiny. This would not be the case before a grand jury.

"It's really a test run on a case," Braun said. "Both sides get to know what the strengths and weaknesses of the case are."


Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. It is distinguished from voluntary manslaughter by the absence of intention. Most unintentional killings are not murder but involuntary manslaughter.

There are two types of involuntary manslaughter statutes: criminally negligent manslaughter and unlawful act manslaughter. Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs when death results from a high degree of negligence or recklessness. Modern criminal codes generally require a consciousness of risk and under some codes the absence of this element makes the offense a less serious homicide.

An omission to act or a failure to perform a duty constitutes criminally negligent manslaughter. The existence of the duty is essential.

In the Michael Jackson case to sustain a charge of involuntary manslaughter prosecutors will have to show that there was a reckless action by Dr Murray that created a risk of death or serious bodily injury. In addition if he was aware of the risk, whether the singer knew about that risk and decided to take it.

...
As a result they ruled the death a homicide because Propofol is only supposed to be administered by an anesthesia professional in a medical setting. The patient requires constant monitoring because the drug depresses breathing and heart rate while also lowering blood pressure, a potentially deadly combination.

Murray claims that the drugs that he gave the singer should not have killed Jackson and that he was entitled to administer Propofol. One of the key issues relating to the charges is however whether he followed the required procedures while Jackson was under the influence of the drugs.

In this regard much of the evidence gathered by the LAPD involved talking to numerous medical experts to determine whether Murray's behavior, which included talking on his cell phone and leaving Jackson's bedside, fell outside the bounds of reasonable medical practice.

http://www.therichmarksentinel.com/rs_headlines.asp?recid=3826

---------------------------------------------------------------

The coroner’s finding of homicide, or death at the hands of another, does not automatically mean a crime was committed. To bring a manslaughter charge, prosecutors must show there was a reckless action that created a risk of death or great bodily injury. If a doctor is aware of the risk, there might also be an issue of whether the patient knows that risk and decided to take it.

Dr. Jayson Hymes, an anesthesiologist and specialist in pain medication and addiction, said authorities are confronted with a central question: “It’s not illegal to be a bad doctor but when does it go from bad medicine to so unbelievably stupid it’s criminal negligence?”

He said investigators may be questioning Murray’s claim that he was trying to “wean” Jackson off the powerful anesthetic by giving him decreasing doses.

“It makes no sense,” said Hymes. “You don’t wean people off propofol. People don’t go around craving propofol. What he needed to be weaned off of were all the other drugs.”

As for Jackson’s demand for propofol, he said, “He didn’t understand that anesthesia is not sleep. If he wanted restorative sleep, he was going in the wrong direction.”

Loyola University Law School professor Laurie Levenson said history hangs over prosecutors as they build the case. The district attorney’s office is shadowed by memories of the O.J. Simpson and Robert Blake murder acquittals and the Phil Spector case that took two trials to win a second-degree murder conviction.

Prosecutors will want to make sure they have a very strong case before proceeding.

“There’s no question that a bad thing happened,” she said of Jackson’s death. “But you need to prove to 12 jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that it is manslaughter. That’s a very high threshold.”

Vesna Maras, a former Los Angeles deputy district attorney who spent 12 years trying medical and pharmacological cases for the office, noted it is not illegal to simply administer propofol.

If he didn’t research the drug that would be conscious disregard of the risk to human life, which is second-degree murder,” she said. “If he did research it, was aware of the risks and didn’t exercise due caution and circumspection before administering it, that is involuntary manslaughter.”


http://blog.taragana.com/law/2009/09/21/authorities-not-in-a-hurry-to-file-charges-in-michael-jackson-death-12855/
 
so here's what I've gathered from reading all the latest articles they know for sure that Murray and the Lawyers will meet with a judge Friday and he will be arriagned what they don't know is if they will then proceed to press further charges.
 
I afraid that is the case. If this was plan, do you think he would had done everything right to make sure that he could not be completely blame. Also, why would you kill someone using Propofol instead of more common drugs. As I have said many times, if he wanted to kill Michael, he could of pumped him full of illegal or painkiller and left IV needles in his room to stage an OD scene. He could leave the room and 'discover' Michael the next day dead.

Why would do something that leaves him in the open when he could had done everything to leave reasonable doubt and make people believe Michael really was an out of control addict. And why would he use the drugs that he gave him instead of the other doctor medicines that were in the house.

Everything Murray did from delaying 911, screwing up CPR, changing his timeline several times, forgetting about the phone calls he made, using a cell which can be track instead of a LAN line, leaving the room in the first place, given a patient too many drugs in a short period of time. This all points to not some clever plot, but someone who screwed up and then tried to cover his tracks. It would seem in his clean up that he didn't plan things out well, because everything is too freaking sloppy to be plan ahead of time.

Unless we go with the theory that Murray really is just a really dumb assassin. Either way, we will find out in time.

Well I don't know about the US... but for Germany I'd easily bet my monthly income that you can wake up every cardiologist, those still in the actively professional process (not retired or working for years already in other jobs) from their deepest sleep and tell them someones laying aside from them in bed not breathing anymore and having a fainting pulse... I bet not one of them will make only half of the 'mistakes' (which as I said I can't believe those really are mistakes) this Murray guy did. That's how trained cardiologists are. It is not in their active thinking... it's more some kind of reflexe I'd say.

Last week there was a car/motor cycle accident in front of my dentists. He went out and did perform first aid, included cpr soooooo correctly on the driver of the motorcycle... amazing but he just told it was simply hammered in his head while at University... a dentist... oh well...

A simple medical student (even those who study dental medicine yes) is trained a billions of times through his years at University to not panic in emergencies as they are sometimes facing the most terrible views on wounded bodies, accident places etc. etc. ... they are trained and trained and trained... conditioned in the words of a psychologist... they sometimes do panic, yes I have some in therapy, but only much much later. See they tell they're suprised themselves it can at times hit them like months later still and they did act as they did (correctly!!!). They are asking themselves often enough how that's possible. But such a training is meant to make them some kind of working robots in cases of emergencies. They're trained to function. You have to make a huge effort to get them out of that pattern.

Again I don't know about the medical education over there.

:no: I can't help it, seems my mind will not eat it ever that the Murray guy did 'mistakes'.
 
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Thanks elusive, yes I meant Criminally Negligent Manslaughter. IMO It's gotta be this, I believe involuntary manslaughter is the charge that any non-doctor would get if they did this to MJ, not a doctor. It's gotta be more than IM



I think someone is talking about criminally negligence manslaughter which sentence is up to 20 years in jail . That's what Ramona mentioned before and elusive also commented on it .

and elusive said if they have evidence of MJ being dead long time before 911 call the charges would have come much faster , I believe the DA decided to present his case in a preliminary hearing is only because he will drop this bombshell . 7 months are nothing in the world of law and courts , especially since the DA was making sure beside applied pharamcy there was no source for propofol so when he point out the lies in murray's story about the propofol addiction and begging Murray's defense will not present another source for it that back up murray's story .

Hope so soundmind. Hope it is a bombshell. 20 years is more like it.

To clear this up:


Criminally negligent manslaughter

Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales or culpable homicide in Scotland.

It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of wilful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim. It is most common in the case of professionals who are grossly negligent in the course of their employment. An example is where a doctor fails to notice a patient's oxygen supply has disconnected and the patient dies.

In many jurisdictions such as California, malice may be found if gross negligence amounts to wilful or depraved indifference to human life.


I think this is the highest charge Murray will be face with, not murder two. There is also the possibility of extra charges if he indeed try to cover his crime.

Thanks Ramona, the 'wilful blindness' thing is what stands out. Does Murray admit he didn't know the dangers of propofol or that he did know everything about it? This will affect the charges. Is 'Wilful blindness' shown here by lack of monitoring and resus equpiment?
 
A simple medical student (even those who study dental medicine yes) is trained a billions of times through his years at University to not panic in
:no: I can't help it, seems my mind will not eat it ever that the Murray guy did 'mistakes'.

Agreed!!!! This is the reason why I decided not to become a doctor, because for a good 7-10 years of my life would be devoted to ALL THINGS MEDICINE. I have so much respect for doctors but I just don't have the patience for such a lengthy time of study. Then once your done with four years of Med school, you do about two to three years of residency with 9 to 11 hours a day devoted to hands-on training in a hospital...a Surgical resident devotes two to three years to become a Surgeon, Anesthesia residency to become an Anesthesiologist...etc. Murray is not a FLIPPING Anesthesiologist!!!

He had COMPLETE disregard for Michael when he decided (THAT FINAL SPLIT SECOND DECISION of yes or no) to administer that anesthesia. Knowing there was a possibility that he could kill MJ if he went along and administered propofol. Shame on him!
 
After reading about what is due to happen tomorrow I just pray that it isn't a repeat of yesterday in the fact that we expect something to happen but nothing does. Again, its a wating game.
 
@ Mechi

I agree with you. Even everyone who has a driving licence should - I said: should - know how to perform CPR properly, think about what we have to learn in the required first aid courses (alt least in Germany).

As I already said elsewhere: I cannot help it, the more I read, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Dr. M. plays one part in this theatrical performance. Maybe he got the role as a marionette - knowingly or unknowingly - with someone else pulling the stings. Too many things don't match in those official reports. JMHO. :ph34r:
 
Thanks Ramona, the 'wilful blindness' thing is what stands out. Does Murray admit he didn't know the dangers of propofol or that he did know everything about it? This will affect the charges.

Hmm.. He could say anything though. Gah. Not knowing about the dangers of a medicine and still using it.. how could you be so stupid.
 
Does Murray admit he didn't know the dangers of propofol or that he did know everything about it?
even a lay person knows the dangers of giving a mixture of benzos then diprivan without having any equipment near by ontop ofgiving it to someone outside of a hospital.

im trying to read up on crim negligent homicide on the net/google but its confusing. for the most part they say its pretty much the same thing and im getting confilicting info on the sentences. there must be a site that just lie out the sentences for crimes in cali
 
Are you here on this board just to rile up the crowd? Just wondering?

A bunch of angry fly off the handle fans isn't going to help anything. In fact, an angry crazy bunch of fans will just make Michaels fan base look like a bunch of angry out of control fans.

I am sorry for responding twice to your post but Murray is not responsible for everything Michael suffered over his life time. You did say "IF HE IS" and the man deserves to be heard.

We still have not ever heard the whole story. How fair is it to hang the man before you even hear his side of things. You have not heard this from his own mouth.


I usually disagree with you...but on this one, you are totally right.

People have to calm down and pray for justice. Murray obviously did not INTENT on killing his 150 000 a month paycheck. He was reckless and a poor excuse for a doctor...but he still deserve to be heard and get his day in court.
 
Last night I quickly checked how long sentences do they give for manslaughter in Finland and you won't believe what I found. In some cases they don't even get a year in prison. I read one article and the sentence contained more crimes than just a manslaughter (dui, driving without a licence, 2 x causing injuries, jeopardize the traffic safety and a couple of others) and this person got 1,5 years in prison. The case was taken to a court of appeal and they actually shortened the sentence into 6 months. Finnish legislation :doh:

So that's why they are using "even 4 years in prison" when they are talking about Dr. Murray in Finnish news.
 
There are two types of involuntary manslaughter statutes: criminally negligent manslaughter and unlawful act manslaughter. Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs when death results from a high degree of negligence or recklessness.

To clear this up:


Criminally negligent manslaughter

Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales or culpable homicide in Scotland.

It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of wilful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim. It is most common in the case of professionals who are grossly negligent in the course of their employment. An example is where a doctor fails to notice a patient's oxygen supply has disconnected and the patient dies.

In many jurisdictions such as California, malice may be found if gross negligence amounts to wilful or depraved indifference to human life.


I think this is the highest charge Murray will be face with, not murder two. There is also the possibility of extra charges if he indeed try to cover his crime.
I got a question. Why has been reported that Murray is charged with "involuntary manslaughter" when it can be labeled more specifically, "criminally negligent manslaughter" as it's one of the 2 types of "involuntary manslaughter"??
 
I got a question. Why has been reported that Murray is charged with "involuntary manslaughter" when it can be labeled more specifically, "criminally negligent manslaughter" as it's one of the 2 types of "involuntary manslaughter"??


Because we have talking head running their mouths and they don't know what is going on either. They don't know more than us and are talking out of their butts. No one knows what the final charges will be.

involuntary manslaughter is not the lowest charge he could had gotten, despite what the news people keep saying. The lowest charge he could of gotten was negligence,
 
Because we have talking head running their mouths and they don't know what is going on either. They don't know more than us and are talking out of their butts. No one knows what the final charges will be.

involuntary manslaughter is not the lowest charge he could had gotten, despite what the news people keep saying. The lowest charge he could of gotten was negligence,
Thanks for the answer.
 
beachlover a question for you

I don't remember where but I read someplace (or heard at TMZ chat) Murray said as MJ was fragile he did not move him to the ground but supported his back with one hand and did cpr with the other. Once again this might be totally a made up story but is this a possible form of doing CPR?

and another tidbit

on TMZ chat a few days ago they said the actual time between realizing that MJ is in trouble and call to 911 is 12 minutes. they said Murray gave them an estimated time (such as around 11:30) but the actual phone logs show a 12 minute difference. Once again I do not know if this is true or not either.

Ok...regarding the CPR. In the hospital I have been in many "Code Blue" situations so I am going to share a few things I know about it here, which I have shared in other threads as well.

We immediately hook them up to a heart monitor if they aren't hooked up already. We do CPR on the bed but we use a hard plastic back board. Michael was thin and it is possible if he were think to do one hand CPR, or if the bed was very firm it might have worked also. The thing is...CPR takes strong pushes on the chest and ribs are often broken during CPR and this is normal. You don't do CPR when there is a heartbeat present.

When someone overdoses on Propofol the real problem is that they stop breathing. Thats the FIRST thing to happen. Breathing slows rapidly and you have to keep them breathing. This drug is often used in places like Intensive Care to keep someone sedated while on a ventilator so they don't 'fight' the vent.

He had to stop breathing and thats what causes the heart to stop. So...what he needed most was an "Ambu Bag" which is a mechanical bag that forces air into the lungs. This can happen in 10 minutes of being out of the room. It can happen in 5.

It was more important to make him breathe than to get his heart beating faster because they go hand in hand. Get him breathing and the heart would get oxygen, etc. I am not sure what Murray was thinking by giving this drug without monitoring equipment and resuscitation equipment.

In that sense I blame Murray for not having the correct equipment on hand to care for his patient in case of emergency.
 
Last night I quickly checked how long sentences do they give for manslaughter in Finland and you won't believe what I found. In some cases they don't even get a year in prison. I read one article and the sentence contained more crimes than just a manslaughter (dui, driving without a licence, 2 x causing injuries, jeopardize the traffic safety and a couple of others) and this person got 1,5 years in prison. The case was taken to a court of appeal and they actually shortened the sentence into 6 months. Finnish legislation :doh:

So that's why they are using "even 4 years in prison" when they are talking about Dr. Murray in Finnish news.



I'm afraid legal heads in Germany are telling the same on German TV:
4 years is the most he'll probably get.
With no criminal history it's almost sure that he'll then not spend more than 1,5 sometimes even only one year in prison, if he behaves well and blah.
Prisons are crowded and expensive and blah!
 
Ok...regarding the CPR. In the hospital I have been in many "Code Blue" situations so I am going to share a few things I know about it here, which I have shared in other threads as well.

We immediately hook them up to a heart monitor if they aren't hooked up already. We do CPR on the bed but we use a hard plastic back board. Michael was thin and it is possible if he were think to do one hand CPR, or if the bed was very firm it might have worked also. The thing is...CPR takes strong pushes on the chest and ribs are often broken during CPR and this is normal. You don't do CPR when there is a heartbeat present.

When someone overdoses on Propofol the real problem is that they stop breathing. Thats the FIRST thing to happen. Breathing slows rapidly and you have to keep them breathing. This drug is often used in places like Intensive Care to keep someone sedated while on a ventilator so they don't 'fight' the vent.

He had to stop breathing and thats what causes the heart to stop. So...what he needed most was an "Ambu Bag" which is a mechanical bag that forces air into the lungs. This can happen in 10 minutes of being out of the room. It can happen in 5.

It was more important to make him breathe than to get his heart beating faster because they go hand in hand. Get him breathing and the heart would get oxygen, etc. I am not sure what Murray was thinking by giving this drug without monitoring equipment and resuscitation equipment.

In that sense I blame Murray for not having the correct equipment on hand to care for his patient in case of emergency.

Thanks for this!
Seems very logical!
 
I am in such a state with all this happening, God knows what Michael's children and family are feeling. All day yesterday I had to look to see what's going on, TMZ making out that it was going to be then, now Friday...I feel like a wreck and I can't concentrate on things and I actually feel that my chest is tight, its hard to breathe and I keep crying. I just look at those oics of Murray ...what an ignirant, reckless, heartless fool, he has ruined everything and until he goes down I can't rest. Just like others have said, he probably won't even go down, he'll pay some bail and some other sums here and there and that might be the last we hear of it. This is so awful and stuff like CNN asking that stupid question just makes me worse, how could they even ask if Murray should be charged with a crime or not?? I feel like people in this world have lost their souls, why do we destroy all thats beautiful in this world, evrything good just gets destroyed.
 
A simple medical student (even those who study dental medicine yes) is trained a billions of times through his years at University to not panic in emergencies as they are sometimes facing the most terrible views on wounded bodies, accident places etc. etc. ... they are trained and trained and trained... conditioned in the words of a psychologist... they sometimes do panic, yes I have some in therapy, but only much much later. See they tell they're suprised themselves it can at times hit them like months later still and they did act as they did (correctly!!!). They are asking themselves often enough how that's possible. But such a training is meant to make them some kind of working robots in cases of emergencies. They're trained to function. You have to make a huge effort to get them out of that pattern.

Again I don't know about the medical education over there.

:no: I can't help it, seems my mind will not eat it ever that the Murray guy did 'mistakes'.

SAme here. I have seen this "reflex" even in my friends studying medicine.
So what Murray did... goes far beyond my understanding.
 
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