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The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

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daisy said:
That's what I said - they have no evidence, which legally means they cannot place more serious charges, which is logical.

I also wrote that they didn't secure the house as a possible crime scene in the first place. Just to exclude the possibility that somehting more, than involountary manslaughter took place, even if they believed that it was not the case. This is the frequent procedure, when people die unexpectedly. I believe, there were already discussions about the unsatosfactory quality of the work that LAPD did just directly after Michael's death.

I am also not sure about the witnesses - if there are some "obvious" witnesses (that are immediately present at the place) - it is important to record their immediate memories, impressions, as they tend to fade with time.

in consequence - whether that was a crime scene or not, we didn't really have a chance to know, as this possibility was practically not excluded after some kind of examination of the place, but ex ante, ie by assumption or opinion that that was NOT a crime scene.

As a result, there is no evidence. I'm not saying that something more happened, I'm saying that due to mishandling of the case by LAPD during the first hours or days after Michael's death, something could have been missed.

Hence, the only scenario that can be called facts and that is supported by existing evidence does not allow for charging Murray with anything more than involountary manslaughter.
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I think that even if they did not secure the house there is other evidence like time of death (if they can determine) and the phone calls and delay in calling 911. This does not point to involuntary manslaughter to me.

What if the time of death was like 9am or earlier and Murray was grossly negligent by delaying and not calling 911? Or what if Murray left the room early in the am and came back to find him dead, is that manslaughter or gross negligence especially because of the nature of the administered drug?
 
Some of the tweets coming in from Google are saying he's facing four years in prison... what do you think about it? Likely, or not?
 
hat's what I said - they have no evidence, which legally means they cannot place more serious charges, which is logical
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evidence to charge with more serious crimes would include evidence related to a plan to kill mj. nothing in the house would show that. its been stated many times the house was secured pretty much straight away and released to the family at the end of the day
 
tomthedude said:
Some of the tweets coming in from Google are saying he's facing four years in prison... what do you think about it? Likely, or not?
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penalty for im is 2- 4 years in prison been stated many times. the question is what xtra charges will be added on
 
Ramona122003 said:
The house was not the crime scene. Michael's body is the crime scene since it is the one that holds all the drugs he was given and the amount. It does not matter what was in that house that day as long as they know what was in his body.

They also secure the house almost as soon as Michael was announce dead and didn't release it until that night. They only went back to get Murray's doctor bag, which he hid.

Also, it does not matter if they contacting witnesses right away. In a standard investigation, you can go up to a year before some people are interview. Since no one had fled the country, it does not matter if they talk to these people the day of Michael's death or 10 months.

You also don't know the DA's case, so you can't say they don't have evident. They obviously had enough for manslaughter and don't have to go to a grand jury. They never plan to charge him with second degree murder. It was always manslaughter, so it is not like they somehow fail to get a higher charge because they were not going for it to begin with. If they had no evident like you have claim then they could only charge with him negligence.
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WERE YOU THERE? Cause if you were not you do not have your facts straight. The house IS a crime scene. The police not only got MURRAY's doctor bag, they took his car too. WHY WOULD MURRARY HIDE HIS DOCTOR BAG? Are related to MURRAY? The word is EVIDENCE not EVIDENT. *rolls eyes*
 
daisydaisy said:
I think that even if they did not secure the house there is other evidence like time of death (if they can determine) and the phone calls and delay in calling 911. This does not point to involuntary manslaughter to me.

What if the time of death was like 9am or earlier and Murray was grossly negligent by delaying and not calling 911? Or what if Murray left the room early in the am and came back to find him dead, is that manslaughter or gross negligence especially because of the nature of the administered drug?
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what he did after findind mj is a seperate charge to IM. IM is the actual cause of death. covering it up afterwards is a seperate issue imo. i doubt they have a set in stone TOD. anything within a ew hr timespan will be argued away by the defence. if the police imo had evidence that was gone at say 9am he would have been arrested long ago
 
PrettyYoungThang said:
you know those ambulance pix were fake right? They were photoshopped - there is a thread about it somewhere.
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only if u believe mj is living on a desert island somewhere, i ment the pics of the BG's covering him with their coats when he arrived
 
elusive moonwalker said:
evidence to charge with more serious crimes would include evidence related to a plan to kill mj. nothing in the house would show that. its been stated many times the house was secured pretty much straight away and released to the family at the end of the day
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Elusive, I remember you posted somewhere before that there is a 'higher' charge than IM but not murder 2....something like if it was seen to be grossly negligent?
 
elusive moonwalker said:
what he did after findind mj is a seperate charge to IM. IM is the actual cause of death. covering it up afterwards is a seperate issue imo. i doubt they have a set in stone TOD. anything within a ew hr timespan will be argued away by the defence. if the police imo had evidence that was gone at say 9am he would have been arrested long ago
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Yes, I believe the TOP will be the crucial point in this case. I think that the TOD is already the crucial point of this like u said, if they had the exact tod, they would have arrested him long time ago.
 
twinklEE said:
Alvarez is supposed to be the girlfriend he shipped the Diprivan too, the one he was staying at.. while he was supposed to be at Michael's place. She's the stripper he has a child with, I believe he is at her place currently not exactly sure though
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ok thanks i guess thats why shes got a lawyer them. shes gonna be a witness either way and already testifyed at teh GJ
 
daisydaisy said:
Elusive, I remember you posted somewhere before that there is a 'higher' charge than IM but not murder 2....something like if it was seen to be grossly negligent?
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murder 2 is the higher charge. u can be charged with this if u show gross disregard for human life etc. its not the typical murder charge. tbh theres a fine line between IM and murder 2 based on negligence yet a huge diff in jail time. imo jurros will always find it hard to convict on murder 2 because of the word murder and its hardly much diff to IM in the wording of it. yet i presume u are looking at a min of 15 years if found guilty of murder 2
 
elusive moonwalker said:
and please can u at least give warning when posting those pics i dame well dont want to see any ambulance pics. heck dont even post them at all
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Sorry for not providing any forewarning, but the reason why I posted the picture of the ambulance is because it shows that the paramedics had short sleeve shirts on that day, and it further shows that June 25th was too warm of a day to have all of that heat jumpin' off upstairs in MJ's house the way that it was.
 
Ramona122003 said:
You also don't know the DA's case, so you can't say they don't have evident. They obviously had enough for manslaughter and don't have to go to a grand jury. They never plan to charge him with second degree murder. It was always manslaughter, so it is not like they somehow fail to get a higher charge because they were not going for it to begin with. If they had no evident like you have claim then they could only charge with him negligence.
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So first you state we can't say what evidence the DA has because we haven't seen it, and then you state that the DA obviously has such and such evidence. So I assume you have seen the DA's case?

Ramona122003 said:
I was not pushing an opinion. I just said his insurance is paying for his lawyer. If he was somehow pulling money from nowhere, the LAPD would had track it. That is not an opinion, that is a fact. He also has doctor insurance so it would be more top of the line than standard because crap does go wrong when you practice and dealing with people's lives more than if you do a everyday job.
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Sorry, we do not know that for a fact. Just FYI, liability insurance typically does not cover criminal acts. So unless you have seen Murray's policy, you actually do not know that for a fact. And it's not just the lawyers, he also hired a publicist, has security, and a huge mortgage on his house that reportedly was close to forclosure. Who is paying for all that? Because medical malpractice insurance surely doesn't cover that.

I don't mean to pick on you, if you think it's the insurance company paying the bills, that's just fine, but please don't claim that your opinion is fact.
 
daisydaisy said:
Elusive, I remember you posted somewhere before that there is a 'higher' charge than IM but not murder 2....something like if it was seen to be grossly negligent?
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sorry i think u mean negligent manslaughter? not sure if its a higher charge but it what ppl get charged with if u owed someone a duty of care. for eg the tiger that escaped the cali zoo several years back and killed someone. a zoo worker was charged with negligent MS because they owed the ppl who visited the park a duty of care. same with other cases that involved docs. so murray should be facing a charge of negligent MS As hes a doctor. not sure if its any worse of a crime though just a different definition based on those involved
 
tomthedude said:
Some of the tweets coming in from Google are saying he's facing four years in prison... what do you think about it? Likely, or not?
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I'm so scared about this....Scared he will get away with this... And even if he doesn't what is 4 years? It's nothing for what he did... 4 years in jail while we all spend a lifetime without our angel :weeping:
 
AllForMJ said:
Sorry for not provide any forewarning, but the reason why I posted the picture of the ambulance is because it appears that one of MJ's very own security guards has taken off his jacket in this particular photo, and it further shows that June 25th was too warm of a day to have all of that heat jumpin' off upstairs in MJ's house the way that it was.
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its ok. but they all took of their jackets inorder to shield the bed and mj from the press.murrya turned it up to change his body temp no doubt
 
*Billie Jean* said:
I'm so scared about this....Scared he will get away with this... And even if he doesn't what is 4 years? It's nothing for what he did... 4 years in jail while we all spend a lifetime without our angel :weeping:
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no point being scared theres nothing to lose and if hes found guilty then yeah 4 years maybe 10 if xtra charges. in the end it doesnt even matter nothing changes
 
I don't think you can say nothing changes elusive.. if nothing would change you wouldn't be waiting for them charge Murray no? I do know where you are coming from, no matter what they charge him with or if they charge him at all he's not going to come back.. but I do still hope that Murray serving jail time, will finally bring us a sense of closure.. Maybe I'm wrong, at first I thought his burial would bring closure, then the movie and now I'm hoping that his arrest will bring a sense of closure. .. I do agree that in the end you are righ,t nothing will really change anything, no matter what they charge him with, it won't be justice, but I still want him to be charged even if it is just manslaughter and no additional charges (God forbid). I do not want him to get away.. though he's already gotten away with it..
 
elusive moonwalker said:
its ok. but they all took of their jackets inorder to shield the bed and mj from the press.murrya turned it up to change his body temp no doubt
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Oops! Before you had a chance to reply, I had already revised my post. What I initially meant to say was, I posted the photo of the ambulance because it shows the paramedics had short sleeve shirts on that day and that further shows that June 25th was too warm of a day to have all of that heat jumpin' off upstairs in MJ's house.
 
I think someone is talking about criminally negligence manslaughter which sentence is up to 20 years in jail . That's what Ramona mentioned before and elusive also commented on it .

and elusive said if they have evidence of MJ being dead long time before 911 call the charges would have come much faster , I believe the DA decided to present his case in a preliminary hearing is only because he will drop this bombshell . 7 months are nothing in the world of law and courts , especially since the DA was making sure beside applied pharamcy there was no source for propofol so when he point out the lies in murray's story about the propofol addiction and begging Murray's defense will not present another source for it that back up murray's story .
 
elusive moonwalker said:
no point being scared theres nothing to lose and if hes found guilty then yeah 4 years maybe 10 if xtra charges. in the end it doesnt even matter nothing changes
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I know. :( But all this talk of his getting charged is just the beginning... he still has to be convicted and I'm terrified that it just not going to happen and if he does, what the hell is 4 years compared to what he did? It's nothing. Prince wont even be 18 when they're letting him out (that IF he gets a maximum sentence!). It's just.. it's scary as Hell!

And the fact he doesn't even seem to be willing to take responsibilty for what he did really REALLY angers me!
 
Knowing the situation, he'll be out in early 12 possibly late '11 on good behavior.
 
AllForMJ said:
Someone has some serious explaining to do. The heat being turned up like that cannot and should not be swept under the rug, because it looks too much like a cover-up.
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I can't imagine that investigators would overlook such a thing or that this information would have been ignored by the medical examiner.

I'm glad I come to this board because these theories would probably never occur to me otherwise. I just originally thought that maybe it was because Michael was so thin that he needed to have the heat up so high. I'm wrong again (possibly).
 
According to the leaked autopsy report Michael was not too thin for a man of his stature. Murray can make up any excuse he wants he turned the heat up to cover up the TOD, period.
 
alright so if he tried to clean up evidence, can he get 'tampering with evidence' as well? which really again... does NOT sound accidental to me at all but whatev...
 
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