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The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

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Hey you guys, remember the search warrant that was executed on 7/22/2009? Bullet point #11 on the second page of the search warrant says the following:

Medical Board Certificate expired August 31, 2008

Click here to see...

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/08/24/murray.search.warrant.affadavits.pdf

If this expired certificate is the only one that Murray had on-hand, I highly doubt that his insurance would still cover him, and this is another reason why I am wondering where he is getting the money to pay for four lawyers.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
sorry i think u mean negligent manslaughter? not sure if its a higher charge but it what ppl get charged with if u owed someone a duty of care. for eg the tiger that escaped the cali zoo several years back and killed someone. a zoo worker was charged with negligent MS because they owed the ppl who visited the park a duty of care. same with other cases that involved docs. so murray should be facing a charge of negligent MS As hes a doctor. not sure if its any worse of a crime though just a different definition based on those involved
Click to expand...


To clear this up:


Criminally negligent manslaughter

Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales or culpable homicide in Scotland.

It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of wilful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim. It is most common in the case of professionals who are grossly negligent in the course of their employment. An example is where a doctor fails to notice a patient's oxygen supply has disconnected and the patient dies.

In many jurisdictions such as California, malice may be found if gross negligence amounts to wilful or depraved indifference to human life.


I think this is the highest charge Murray will be face with, not murder two. There is also the possibility of extra charges if he indeed try to cover his crime.
 
AllForMJ said:
Hey you guys, remember the search warrant that was executed on 7/22/2009? Bullet point #11 on the second page of the search warrant says the following:

Medical Board Certificate expired August 31, 2008

Click here to see...

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/08/24/murray.search.warrant.affadavits.pdf

If this expired certificate is the only one that Murray had on-hand, I highly doubt that his insurance would still cover him, and this is another reason why I am wondering where he is getting the money to pay for four lawyers.
Click to expand...

There could be a new certificate that was not there, so it wouldn't be in the search warrant. Sometimes lawyers will work for the publicity - its possible his wife is paying. Hard to say.
 
Ramona122003 said:
To clear this up:


Criminally negligent manslaughter

Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales or culpable homicide in Scotland.

It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of wilful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.

Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim. It is most common in the case of professionals who are grossly negligent in the course of their employment. An example is where a doctor fails to notice a patient's oxygen supply has disconnected and the patient dies.

In many jurisdictions such as California, malice may be found if gross negligence amounts to wilful or depraved indifference to human life.


I think this is the highest charge Murray will be face with, not murder two. There is also the possibility of extra charges if he indeed try to cover his crime.
Click to expand...

The talking heads (that I have seen) are only mentioning involuntary manslaughter though, 2-4 years max. Does CA actually have a more serious manslaughter? I hope there are added on charges since it is not going to be 2nd degree murder.

I found this on Findlaw:

Manslaughter: Involuntary

Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called "criminally negligent homicide") is a crime in which the victim's death is unintended.
 
princessleia said:
So first you state we can't say what evidence the DA has because we haven't seen it, and then you state that the DA obviously has such and such evidence. So I assume you have seen the DA's case?



Sorry, we do not know that for a fact. Just FYI, liability insurance typically does not cover criminal acts. So unless you have seen Murray's policy, you actually do not know that for a fact. And it's not just the lawyers, he also hired a publicist, has security, and a huge mortgage on his house that reportedly was close to forclosure. Who is paying for all that? Because medical malpractice insurance surely doesn't cover that.

I don't mean to pick on you, if you think it's the insurance company paying the bills, that's just fine, but please don't claim that your opinion is fact.
Click to expand...



They never plan to charge Murray with murder two, that was my point. It was always manslaughter from the start. I don't know the case, but it is hard to charge a doctor with murder. Unless intent is shown, most juries will not convict a doctor of murder. Which is why I said, they were not going to charge him with murder two. They may add extra charges if it is shown that he tried to cover his tracks, but they will not risk losing a case just so that can get an extra 5 years of a jail sentence.

As for the whole insurance debate, doctors do have insurance that covers them if a patient dies under their care. When you are treating people with their lives, that is a must. His insurance may very well covered the bodyguard too since his life is in danger and they don't want to pay if he is killed by someone. Also, some lawyers don't get paid until the case is finish and they are successful. So, these lawyers may or may not being paid right now, although it make sense the insurance is paying for it. We also don't know he situation with house since we don't know if he is paying just enough to keep the house or not.

Also, Murray would had no time to take money from Michael in the time period. Unless he was somehow able to hind millions of dollars with of jewelry and and money in his pockets, he couldn't just walk out the door without people noticing his jacket gotten heavier. He also never return to the house and I will bet my bottom dollar that the LAPD is looking carefully at his bank account and any money he gets is check.
 
jrsfan said:
The talking heads (that I have seen) are only mentioning involuntary manslaughter though, 2-4 years max. Does CA actually have a more serious manslaughter? I hope there are added on charges since it is not going to be 2nd degree murder.

I found this on Findlaw:

Manslaughter: Involuntary

Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called "criminally negligent homicide") is a crime in which the victim's death is unintended.
Click to expand...



In many jurisdictions such as California, malice may be found if gross negligence amounts to wilful or depraved indifference to human life.

It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of wilful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable.



California does have this and Murray could be charge depending on the evident.
 
Murray would have had malpractice insurance at the very least and that would cover his defense.
 
jrsfan said:
There could be a new certificate that was not there, so it wouldn't be in the search warrant. Sometimes lawyers will work for the publicity - its possible his wife is paying. Hard to say.
Click to expand...
This is what Rawr just posted today that shows an expiration date of 12/31/2009.
Rawr said:
mtraX.png


I know the certification thing is old news, but here's some proof of it and the expiration.
Click to expand...
You go, Rawr!

Also, here are a couple of articles from 2009 about Murray not being certified.


Michael Jackson’s Doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray is NOT CERTIFIED
Posted by: Zooped, June 28th, 2009


MediaTakeOut.com just EXCLUSIVELY uncovered some EXPLOSIVE news. Apparently Michael Jackson’s doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray is NOT CERTIFIED by the American Board of Internal Medicine to practice internal medicine. And get this, he’s not a board certified cardiologist either

What exactly does this mean? Well doctors are NOT REQUIRED to be Board certified to practice medicine. But just about EVERY TOP NOTCH doctor is.

And the story gets even more interesting, Dr. Murray’s Board certification expired in late 2008, that means that when he was hired BY THE PROMOTERS to care for Michael Jackson - they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that they were hiring a NON-CERTIFIED doctor.


http://www.zooped.com/2009/06/28/michael-jacksons-doctor-dr-conrad-murray-is-not-certified/


http://www.mediatakeout.com/2009/33...s_a_cardiologist__or_as_any_other_doctor.html



Here's another article about Murray not being board certified in cardiology

http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/30/doctor-qualifications-take-center-stage/
 
AllForMJ said:
This is what Rawr just posted today that shows an expiration date of 12/31/2009.

You go, Rawr!

Also, here are a couple of articles from 2009 about Murray not being certified.


Michael Jackson’s Doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray is NOT CERTIFIED
Posted by: Zooped, June 28th, 2009


MediaTakeOut.com just EXCLUSIVELY uncovered some EXPLOSIVE news. Apparently Michael Jackson’s doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray is NOT CERTIFIED by the American Board of Internal Medicine to practice internal medicine. And get this, he’s not a board certified cardiologist either

What exactly does this mean? Well doctors are NOT REQUIRED to be Board certified to practice medicine. But just about EVERY TOP NOTCH doctor is.

And the story gets even more interesting, Dr. Murray’s Board certification expired in late 2008, that means that when he was hired BY THE PROMOTERS to care for Michael Jackson - they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that they were hiring a NON-CERTIFIED doctor.


http://www.zooped.com/2009/06/28/michael-jacksons-doctor-dr-conrad-murray-is-not-certified/


http://www.mediatakeout.com/2009/33...s_a_cardiologist__or_as_any_other_doctor.html



Here's another article about Murray not being board certified in cardiology

http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/30/doctor-qualifications-take-center-stage/
Click to expand...



This story is not true, otherwise he would not be able to practice now and he would be charge for practicing without an license at this very moment. He is also license in CA, TX, and NV, so he is certified. Also, how dumb do you think AEG is to hire a non-certified doctor to take care of their biggest star. Especially if they have to pay him 150,000 a month.


Also, thank you Beachlover. I have been trying to say that for awhile. I just didn't remember the insurance name.
 
what do u mean NOT CERTIFIED? I don't trust media take out, they're 10x worse tham TMZ and if he wasn't certifies he wouldn't be able to work now. i saw murray on some doctor site and one person left a comment from over a year ago praising him for his service. he did some operation on someone's clogged arteries.
 
nena said:
what do u mean NOT CERTIFIED? I don't trust media take out, they're 10x worse tham TMZ and if he wasn't certifies he wouldn't be able to work now. i saw murray on some doctor site and one person left a comment from over a year ago praising him for his service. he did some operation on someone's clogged arteries.
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Physicians are licensed. They renew their license to practice. Certificates are meaningless unless it pertains to your specific employer.

I have a license and several certificates in specialties but my license is what allows me to practice.
 
Beachlover said:
Physicians are licensed. They renew their license to practice. Certificates are meaningless unless it pertains to your specific employer.

I have a license and several certificates in specialties but my license is what allows me to practice.
Click to expand...

So just for clarification, certification & licensing are different is what you are saying? That is what I thought but it is confusing. So certification would not make a difference in medical malpractice insurance?

Are you a doctor?

Thanks in advance for answering.
 
Dr. Conrad Murray -- Friday's the Day

Posted Feb 3rd 2010 10:19PM by TMZ Staff
Dr. Conrad Murray will be arraigned Friday and charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson -- law enforcement sources tell TMZ.

We're told Dr. Murray will turn himself in to the LAPD Friday morning. He will be booked and then taken to Airport Court in L.A., where he will face a judge at 1:30 PM.

A pool video camera and a still camera will record the event.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0eXBJureJ
 
jrsfan said:
So just for clarification, certification & licensing are different is what you are saying? That is what I thought but it is confusing. So certification would not make a difference in medical malpractice insurance?

Are you a doctor?

Thanks in advance for answering.
Click to expand...

You can be a Board Certified Cardiologist. Usually a doctor in a specialty would do that. They have to keep learning and training. Things change in medicine and you have to keep up with things. This is also part of renewing your license. So, to answer, license and certifications are separate. You MUST be licensed to practice.

I am a nurse. My specialty is cardiology.
 
nena said:
Dr. Conrad Murray -- Friday's the Day

Posted Feb 3rd 2010 10:19PM by TMZ Staff
Dr. Conrad Murray will be arraigned Friday and charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson -- law enforcement sources tell TMZ.

We're told Dr. Murray will turn himself in to the LAPD Friday morning. He will be booked and then taken to Airport Court in L.A., where he will face a judge at 1:30 PM.

A pool video camera and a still camera will record the event.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0eXBJureJ
Click to expand...

I truly, honestly don't mean to be rude to any of our dear USA MJ fans here, but please tell me... is this common practice in the United States? Do the authorities tell this much to tabloids , even given hours they will present a criminal in court? Is this... normal?

Really?????

So it seems those guys from TMZ had all the "conections". Maybe we should ask them who killed Michael Jackson and the guy is going to receive!!! :ermm:

This is unbelievable... I am lost of words.... :mello:
 
nena said:
Dr. Conrad Murray -- Friday's the Day

Posted Feb 3rd 2010 10:19PM by TMZ Staff
Dr. Conrad Murray will be arraigned Friday and charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson -- law enforcement sources tell TMZ.

We're told Dr. Murray will turn himself in to the LAPD Friday morning. He will be booked and then taken to Airport Court in L.A., where he will face a judge at 1:30 PM.

A pool video camera and a still camera will record the event.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0eXBJureJ
Click to expand...

I'm not banking on anything until I see it happen... they keep saying this and that and it turns out to not be true and who knows they probably say it just to keep their traffic numbers so high...

I hope it's true but I'm just not thinking much of it until it all actually happens. Tired of getting my hopes up...
 
PCR said:
I truly, honestly don't mean to be rude to any of our dear USA MJ fans here, but please tell me... is this common practice in the United States? Do the authorities tell this much to tabloids , even given hours they will present a criminal in court? Is this... normal?

Really?????

So it seems those guys from TMZ had all the "conections". Maybe we should ask them who killed Michael Jackson and the guy is going to receive!!! :ermm:

This is unbelievable... I am lost of words.... :mello:
Click to expand...


The only people who keep saying 'sources' are going to do this and that is TMZ which have little creditability. Since they don't name their suppose sources, you can't tell if they are talking to people who know about the investigation or are they talking to someone with 4th hand information.

The reason fans keep posting crap from TMZ is because the Jackson Family use it as their dumping ground for all of their legal battles and they were the first to reprot Michael's death, most likely because someone from the Jacksons told them. So, you should take everything from TMZ with a mountain of salt.
 
Reghead121 said:
I'm not banking on anything until I see it happen... they keep saying this and that and it turns out to not be true and who knows they probably say it just to keep their traffic numbers so high...

I hope it's true but I'm just not thinking much of it until it all actually happens. Tired of getting my hopes up...
Click to expand...

So true!
The last time it was something like he will surrender on wednesday or thursday, now again it is friday, then again on friday I bet they'll say next week thursday and so on and on...
 
I agree with Ramona. Mountains upon mountains of salt!!!!!!!!!

Just to think.....we get our news much faster now because of cell phones, computers and other instant access means. Back in the day I remember no cell phones, no computers and we got news flashes on television of the important stuff but that was about it.

This brings us all 'closer' to what is going on in a way but it also makes us more vulnerable to 'errors' such as when TMZ tells us its TODAY, NOT..........

Its very frustrating.
 
Beachlover said:
You can be a Board Certified Cardiologist. Usually a doctor in a specialty would do that. They have to keep learning and training. Things change in medicine and you have to keep up with things. This is also part of renewing your license. So, to answer, license and certifications are separate. You MUST be licensed to practice.

I am a nurse. My specialty is cardiology.
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Nice to know you are a nurse, Beachlover. My mother is also a nurse. I have her on the telephone right now and I just asked her about the way that Dr. Murray performed CPR on MJ. She said he did it incorrectly. She said when performing CPR on a patient that has gone into cardiac arrest on a bed, it is standard procedure to place a Cardiac Resuscitation Board underneath the patient. If you do not have one available, you are supposed to put the patient down onto the floor in a supine position. She also said you do not put one of the patient's arms behind their back, you put both of their arms to their side. She also said with this doctor being a Cardiologist that is caring for an individual in a home setting, she is wondering why the doctor did not have an Automated External Defibrillator on site, and if he did have an AED on site, she is wondering why he did not use it.
 
Ramona122003 said:
This story is not true, otherwise he would not be able to practice now and he would be charge for practicing without an license at this very moment. He is also license in CA, TX, and NV, so he is certified. Also, how dumb do you think AEG is to hire a non-certified doctor to take care of their biggest star. Especially if they have to pay him 150,000 a month.


Also, thank you Beachlover. I have been trying to say that for awhile. I just didn't remember the insurance name.
Click to expand...
With him being licensed in three different states, it makes it three times as bad that he did not know how to perform CPR when his professional help was needed. Failure is failure.
 
nena said:
Dr. Conrad Murray -- Friday's the Day

Posted Feb 3rd 2010 10:19PM by TMZ Staff
Dr. Conrad Murray will be arraigned Friday and charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson -- law enforcement sources tell TMZ.

We're told Dr. Murray will turn himself in to the LAPD Friday morning. He will be booked and then taken to Airport Court in L.A., where he will face a judge at 1:30 PM.

A pool video camera and a still camera will record the event.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0eXBJureJ
Click to expand...


I don't mean to repost this but apparently a spokesperson confirmed it according to this article or maybe I'm not understanding it well

Court Rep: Arraignment Scheduled for Jackson's Doctor
http://www.seattlepi.com/tvguide/415008_tvgif3.html
 
AllForMJ said:
With him being licensed in three different states, it makes it three times as bad that he did not know how to perform CPR when his professional help was needed. Failure is failure.
Click to expand...


Yeah, he completely screwed up the CPR. Also, he said Michael had a slight pulse, he just was not breathing when he started CPR. You don't perform CPR with someone with a pulse. You do mouth to mouth to get them breathing again.

Not to mention he left the freaking room when his patient was under heavy medication and didn't call 911 right away like any normal person would do.

I would love to see how he explains the above.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Yeah, he completely screwed up the CPR. Also, he said Michael had a slight pulse, he just was not breathing when he started CPR. You don't perform CPR with someone with a pulse. You do mouth to mouth to get them breathing again.

Not to mention he left the freaking room when his patient was under heavy medication and didn't call 911 right away like any normal person would do.

I would love to see how he explains the above.
Click to expand...
Yep, my mother said you only need to do rescue breathing if they have a pulse. You do not do cardiac compressions because it can change the rhythm of the patient's heart. And you definitely call 911 to get additional help STAT.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Yeah, he completely screwed up the CPR. Also, he said Michael had a slight pulse, he just was not breathing when he started CPR. You don't perform CPR with someone with a pulse. You do mouth to mouth to get them breathing again.

Not to mention he left the freaking room when his patient was under heavy medication and didn't call 911 right away like any normal person would do.

I would love to see how he explains the above.
Click to expand...

I do not believe he screwed up. I'm sorry.
My mind doesn't allow me to ever believe this it seems. A cardiologist knows.
I can't help myself but my mind is always telling me Murray knew. But he obviously still didn't perform it.
The police and/or the DA have to find out why!!!
Unless Murray bought his dr. and never saw neither a school nor a University from the inside. There is NO WAY a cardiologist doesn't know. It's crazy seems my mind is laughing about me whenever I try to get only that possibility entering it.
Cardiologists usually have that in their automatical emergency content as a fix pattern... so they can't really act wrong anymore... that's how studied they are in CPR.
They would have to instantly stop and start the thinking process to get out of that pattern.

Ok I give up... but I can't help it... it's impossible I'll ever convince my mind to only give it the tiniest possibility to believe that could be true... that Murray just was in panic and did some unfortunate faults. I'll never believe that. I'm not able to...:no:
 
Ramona122003 said:
Yeah, he completely screwed up the CPR. Also, he said Michael had a slight pulse, he just was not breathing when he started CPR. You don't perform CPR with someone with a pulse. You do mouth to mouth to get them breathing again.

Not to mention he left the freaking room when his patient was under heavy medication and didn't call 911 right away like any normal person would do.

I would love to see how he explains the above.
Click to expand...

Exactly! I want to see this explained too! I bet he will changed the story like everything else in this case!

"We're told Dr. Murray will turn himself in to the LAPD Friday morning. He will be booked and then taken to Airport Court in L.A., where he will face a judge at 1:30 PM.
A pool video camera and a still camera will record the event."

I wonder if this time the camera will focus on the GARBAGE can so much...again?
 
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