The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

[souldreamer7]

:timer:

 

[Moulin Rouge]

Can't believe it's already 7 months...

i know

 

[Naytobes]

I want answers! I want results! 7 months!!!

This sucks

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Why loose hope? The case has just been given to the DA to look at? Its too soon.

As for the fans stepping up. It seems that the people who base things on facts have all been banned from the Investigative Unit. All thats left there are theorists and that isn't going to prosecute a case so I don't see it as useful in that sense.

yeah its a shame this board is allowing the fan community to be split like that. but its even worse when some fans are making mj out to be a druggie because it goes with their conspiracy and the boards blocks those who want to contridict that point or ask questions. reminds me of the court tv boards. during 03-05. aslong as those fans stay in their section when the proper case starts so those who are intrested in the facts of the case can deal with that. as otherwise it helps no one include mj and the fans

 

[Autumn II]

yeah its a shame this board is allowing the fan community to be split like that. but its even worse when some fans are making mj out to be a druggie because it goes with their conspiracy and the boards blocks those who want to contridict that point or ask questions. reminds me of the court tv boards. during 03-05. aslong as those fans stay in their section when the proper case starts so those who are intrested in the facts of the case can deal with that. as otherwise it helps no one include mj and the fans

With all due respect, I feel this is an over-simplification. During the trial (and before, to the build-up to the trial), I did incredible research, with much time and dedication. I think my articles did some genuine good in achieving justice for Michael. (I heard Geraldo saying the exact words that I wrote!) There were groups of people who did this as well, and collaborated. I am not doing this "research" any differently, and it is as fact-based as humanly possible, and I certainly have not become LESS capable as a researcher. I don't see "investigations" as in any way antithetical to love for Michael. Quite the opposite. (I do NOT see him as a "druggie," at all. It is not that simple.)

I guess what is of concern is, what if those who would suppress "investigations" turn out to be WRONG? That would be very terrible. . . . .

I'd say that those who want to engage with it, should, and those who do not surely don't have to. We can peacefully co-exist.

 

[Soundmind]

thank you vic for your contributions during the trial and even before I was here and I know what you are talking about , I do remember great memebrs like you , elusive , TSCM, aveeno , Pepina , Trish, Wildcat, Whisper ..etc . but i have to agree with elusive , when the trial begins hopefully some people will stick with the investigation fiction section and wont ruin everything for us . Because from everything we heard from LAPD it is only about Murray and no one else .

 

[Autumn II]

The level of investigations is not different now, than during the trial. It's just too painful for some, and that's understandable. I'd say the way MJJC is set up now works very well. Those who don't want to engage with "investigations" need not visit the I.U. I only respond here about investigations of someone says something blatantly incorrect, factually. But usually not even then. . .

I take exception to your use of the word "fiction," but won't rise to that further. Time is too short, and quality of life too precious to waste it arguing. I hope you agree.

peace,

Vic

 

[Soundmind]

The level of investigations is not different now, than during the trial.

what investigation are you talking about for God's sake Vic, sorry everything was available on the internet back then like it is now , I don't know what you are talking about . you among MANY others wrote articles and expalined things to people who were joining the boards that was it , some were lazy to search and some did research collected articles and posted it . some went to trial and reported what happened in that court room , THANK YOU VERY MUCH , but THAT WAS IT . stop acting like you were the people who cleared MJ . I'm not downplaying the fans' role during the trial , but in that courtroom it was Mez who cleared MJ , not you or me or any fan's "investigation".

 

[Ramona122003]

I want answers! I want results! 7 months!!!

This sucks

Seven months is no time when it come to a investigation, specially a homicide of a very famous person. It can easily take over a year for anyone to charge in any case, so people saying they are taking too long or nothing will happen are being impatient and a little impractical.

You should be more concern if they made an arrest right away because that is when the biggest screw up happens. Just look at the shit storm of the OJ case. They arrested him within two months after the murders and we know how that stories ended. Even the heck job they made of Michael's case took nearly two years to get to trail.

Fans will just have to be patient and accept that it could take years before Murray even sees trail. If he even go to court that is since I think he will do everything to avoid going to trail since he will come out looking really bad. They want to make sure they look at everything so Murray they counter everything Murray's might do and to see if this was somehow 'plan'. That way, fans can't cry foul when the facts comes out.

I am also happy they are staying quiet because that tells me that they are doing their job. They are keeping everyone in the dark and letting certain people, namely Murray, hang themselves by talking before they make any charge. The more they talk, the more time someone like Murray has to ready a defense. Which really screwed Sneddon since he could not keep his and his DA's mouths shut.

As the DA said, they are in no hurry. Murray is not going anywhere so they have all the time in the world to get everything together. They run against the clock the moment they make a move, so by all means i want them to take their time. Everyone will just have to grit and bear it for now.

 

[Soundmind]

very true Ramona , but I have a feeling something will happen in the next two weeks .

 

[Autumn II]

what investigation are you talking about for God's sake Vic, sorry everything was available on the internet back then like it is now , I don't know what you are talking about . you among MANY others wrote articles and expalined things to people who were joining the boards that was it , some were lazy to search and some did research collected articles and posted it . some went to trial and reported what happened in that court room , THANK YOU VERY MUCH , but THAT WAS IT . stop acting like you were the people who cleared MJ . I'm not downplaying the fans' role during the trial , but in that courtroom it was Mez who cleared MJ , not you or me or any fan's "investigation".

What makes you think our info didn't go directly to Mez?

Not engaging with you on this. Sorry.

 

[angelofhope]

what investigation are you talking about for God's sake Vic, sorry everything was available on the internet back then like it is now , I don't know what you are talking about . you among MANY others wrote articles and expalined things to people who were joining the boards that was it , some were lazy to search and some did research collected articles and posted it . some went to trial and reported what happened in that court room , THANK YOU VERY MUCH , but THAT WAS IT . stop acting like you were the people who cleared MJ . I'm not downplaying the fans' role during the trial , but in that courtroom it was Mez who cleared MJ , not you or me or any fan's "investigation".

Soundmind- I feel you are being very disrespectful to Vic and those of us in this community who where there during the trial.
I think i'm right in saying Sneddon in court papers stated during the trial he
wanted us shut down. That's how POWERFUL this board was in that terrible chapter in Michael's life.
We weren't T-MEZ you are right but many people contributed to Michael's freedom including the good people in this community.
We helped fight the good fight and we won.
I truly believe that Vic and the many other diligent researchers on this board CAN make a difference to the current case and help to get justice for our dearly loved Michael.

 

[Ramona122003]

Soundmind- I feel you are being very disrespectful to Vic and those of us in this community who where there during the trial.
I think i'm right in saying Sneddon in court papers stated during the trial he
wanted us shut down. That's how POWERFUL this board was in that terrible chapter in Michael's life.
We weren't T-MEZ you are right but many people contributed to Michael's freedom including the good people in this community.
We helped fight the good fight and we won.
I truly believe that Vic and the many other diligent researchers on this board CAN make a difference to the current case and help to get justice for our dearly loved Michael.

I think Sound was not being rude, but she was being realistic. I looked at the achieves and what fans really did was post facts, articles, and used their god given common sense to see how stupid the case really was. The case was so poorly made that it looked like it was put together from tacky glue, so you didn't need a MD in investigating to see the holes. Fans morally supported Michael and helped him through that tough period, that is a fact.

However, the fan really did nothing when it came to the actual investigation. Posting new articles and writing articles does not count as investigating. It was Mez and his team would did the research by hiring people to look at people's past. They were the ones who looked through every pick of evident and collected their own, not fans. So, putting the fans at the same level as Mez is undermining Mez's hardwork and given fans more credits then deserve.

Sneddon wanted to close down the site not because fans found some kind of information he didn't want them to know, it was more of the fact that they saw how bad the case was and rightfully ripped it apart. They then spread what they have learned to others, which is why they were a threat. It was not because of the actual research.

Btw, I went to the IU and most of their theories are made out of tacky glue. Common sense also flew out the window as well.

 

[funkyfish]

I guess what is of concern is, what if those who would suppress "investigations" turn out to be WRONG? That would be very terrible. . . . .
We can peacefully co-exist.

I'm fairly new so my opinion probably counts for less but from what i'm noticing it seems that some people believe questioning someone's "investigation" or theory, is trying to supress it.
If someone states a theory that is logically and factually impossible, surely it's better to question the theory and maybe dismiss it so you can narrow stuff down to the most likely/possible senarios? Instead of people getting wrapped up in huge baseless conspiracy theories.

That said, if someone questions your theory and you still stand by it, then stand by it. And theres no point getting upset/personally offended.

Not talking to anyone in particular btw, just what i've noticed.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I'm fairly new so my opinion probably counts for less but from what i'm noticing it seems that some people believe questioning someone's "investigation" or theory, is trying to supress it.
If someone states a theory that is logically and factually impossible, surely it's better to question the theory and maybe dismiss it so you can narrow stuff down to the most likely/possible senarios? Instead of people getting wrapped up in huge baseless conspiracy theories.

That said, if someone questions your theory and you still stand by it, then stand by it. And theres no point getting upset/personally offended.

Not talking to anyone in particular btw, just what i've noticed.

very true. thats the problem. some ppl are only intrested in turning this situation into one big conspricay.so when anyone says anything different they get accused of being infultrators etc which is frankly insulting.i wonder about those who never talk about murray and push it onto everyone but him.especially when those posters have been here 2 minutes. the question needs to be asked are some intresed in getting to the truth whatever that maybe or are they more intrested in playing cludo and who done it like this is some game for them to play because as u say if u are intrested in getting to the truth u will have no problem with others pointing out the wrongs and rights of certain theories or tabloid stories that would not be deemed credible in order to get to get as close to the truth as possible. why do some posters in the IU have issues with that. no fan wanting to get to the truth would. what are their motives? i also wonder about those who seem to have no problem pushing the mj was a druggie story in order to support their conspircay theory. that to me says more about what they want to acheive than anything to do with mike. they are setting up murrays defence good and proper but then maybe that is the idea.because some of their postings do sound like something the likes of sandy the cowgirl and other haters would post from back in the day. and that is what it is like in some sections of the IU posting by ppl who in any other time would sound like haters because of the image of mj they are trying to push down ppls throats in order to support their theory even though when the facts we currently have dont support that. and whats troubling is that an mj board board even allows that.yet goes to the other extreme and bans those who question such statements from that section of the board.

The level of investigations is not different now, than during the trial.

tbh its not the same at all. we are playing role reversals as this time we are the prosecutors. back in 03-05 we knew what the allegations were and we picked them apart accordingly. basing our arguments/opinions on facts. now we are the prosecutors and other than ppl discussing murrays statements and what he and his lawyers have claimed there is no factual information at this time to discuss and investigate. now we have ppl creating conspiracy theories picking and chosing what info they want to use to bolster their theories regardless of whether it has been provern false or if it comes from a source that is not deemed legit.and when others show them that something may not be legit they start going on accusing said posters of being infultrators etc. :doh: do those ppl care about the facts and finding the truth because their actions certainly dont point towards it. i see comparisons with how the haters acted on the court tv boards which is crazy to think of. they based their theories no matter how illogical or provern false on info/sources they said was legit no matter how to the common person they werent. but becasue they were so obsessed in getting mj common sense and logic went out of the window.anyone who didnt agree with them was banned from the court tv boards or posts were edited. kinda the same as the IU on here. is that something to be proud of?is it about getting to the truth whatever it maybe or is it just a forum for conspriracy theories to post their thoughts and for non conspraciy theories not to be allowed. becasue everytime i have asked this question to staff members etc no one has had the time to say. rather it seems they prefer tip toeing over the issue. why they dont just come out and state what that section of the board is for instead of banning ppl and harrassing others out of the section i dont know.i guess its the easy way out. and its frankly sad that an mj site of all palces would even do such a thing to its members when we are supposed to be coming together its also patronising to accuse those who want to get to the truth by going through the facts as we currently have them as acting in such a way becasue of grief. no its becasue they are only intrested in the facts as we have them and nothing else.maybe i could accuse those who are only intresed in theories that everyone but murray killed mj as only acting in such a way becasue of grief and thats why common sense has gone out of the window because they are desperate to forget what actually happened here and then maybe there are those who think its all a game and come a years time or so wont even be here and will be on the message board of the next "big thing" anyway.

 

[Soundmind]

I think Sound was not being rude, but she was being realistic. I looked at the achieves and what fans really did was post facts, articles, and used their god given common sense to see how stupid the case really was. The case was so poorly made that it looked like it was put together from tacky glue, so you didn't need a MD in investigating to see the holes. Fans morally supported Michael and helped him through that tough period, that is a fact.

However, the fan really did nothing when it came to the actual investigation. Posting new articles and writing articles does not count as investigating. It was Mez and his team would did the research by hiring people to look at people's past. They were the ones who looked through every pick of evident and collected their own, not fans. So, putting the fans at the same level as Mez is undermining Mez's hardwork and given fans more credits then deserve.

Sneddon wanted to close down the site not because fans found some kind of information he didn't want them to know, it was more of the fact that they saw how bad the case was and rightfully ripped it apart. They then spread what they have learned to others, which is why they were a threat. It was not because of the actual research.

Btw, I went to the IU and most of their theories are made out of tacky glue. Common sense also flew out the window as well.

That's exactly what I meant , thank you . My intentions were not to downplay or insult Vic , I was expressing my feelings and my own experience back then , I was part of the fans communities at the time and I saw first hand how fans helped each other understand that case using COMMON SENSE and FACTS .




Elusive I love you soooooo much :yes: and your post deserves this :clapping::clapping:

 

[Autumn II]

No insult taken. However, for the good of the community, I think it would probably be best if there would not be discussions about whether or not "anyone" should be investigating (because some people will continue do this regardless of what someone else wants), or the value (or non-value) of the I.U., or the value or non-value of anyone's research, and so on. This only serves to divide us.

Those who want to visit the I.U. can, and those who don't want to, don't have to . . and that's really pretty simple. My vote would be for harmony in the community. . . .

 

[Bo G]

Elusive, Soundmind, Ramona, Beachlover...

Am I allowed to say at least this? You guys rock!

Thanks...

Bo

* waits nervously for the hand on the collar *

 

[Naytobes]

Seven months is no time when it come to a investigation, specially a homicide of a very famous person. It can easily take over a year for anyone to charge in any case, so people saying they are taking too long or nothing will happen are being impatient and a little impractical.

You should be more concern if they made an arrest right away because that is when the biggest screw up happens. Just look at the shit storm of the OJ case. They arrested him within two months after the murders and we know how that stories ended. Even the heck job they made of Michael's case took nearly two years to get to trail.

Fans will just have to be patient and accept that it could take years before Murray even sees trail. If he even go to court that is since I think he will do everything to avoid going to trail since he will come out looking really bad. They want to make sure they look at everything so Murray they counter everything Murray's might do and to see if this was somehow 'plan'. That way, fans can't cry foul when the facts comes out.

I am also happy they are staying quiet because that tells me that they are doing their job. They are keeping everyone in the dark and letting certain people, namely Murray, hang themselves by talking before they make any charge. The more they talk, the more time someone like Murray has to ready a defense. Which really screwed Sneddon since he could not keep his and his DA's mouths shut.

As the DA said, they are in no hurry. Murray is not going anywhere so they have all the time in the world to get everything together. They run against the clock the moment they make a move, so by all means i want them to take their time. Everyone will just have to grit and bear it for now.

Yeh, I know where you are coming from. I wrote that comment when I was having a bad day Just frustrated

 

[Naytobes]

Just reading the previous few posts above....I hope no arguements start

Yes - we all have the right to voice our opinions, but just remember guys, don't get narky at each other.

For Michael's sake. We need to stick together, don't forget

 

[Beachlover]

Elusive, Soundmind, Ramona, Beachlover...

Am I allowed to say at least this? You guys rock!

Thanks...

Bo

* waits nervously for the hand on the collar *

Thank you.

I feel much as Elusive does on this issue and won't say more at this time.

 

[Autumn II]

Just reading the previous few posts above....I hope no arguements start

Yes - we all have the right to voice our opinions, but just remember guys, don't get narky at each other.

For Michael's sake. We need to stick together, don't forget

Absolutely. It's iike, those who do investigations surely don't urge anyone else to do the same. The same respect should be offered to those who are engaged with the I.U. That's the only way we can pull together as a community.

 

[Beachlover]

Vic, I see that many of the fans in the IU have absolutely no respect for anyone who comes along and questions a theory with a fact. That includes you.

You seek to get them banned and out of the way and then come to this board and continue the bantering and its quite obvious to me.

I DO completely understand how theories work and I think they surely do have a place in all of this too, HOWEVER (and this is a BIG important point), if someone comes up with a theory and throws it out there, the object of investigating is to see if the theory holds any kind of truth or validity. 99.9% of the theories are based on ideas that stem from hate, baseless suspicion and out right tabloid stories only. When these are proven to be false, instead of getting rid of the theory, you get rid of the person who proved it false.

Thats not exactly how police investigations work.

 

[Autumn II]

I'll just say again, we must respect one-another to sustain MJJC as a healthy community. I'm simply going to decline to engage in any interpersonal convos about "investigations." The topic of the thread is Murray? He and his attorneys have been strangely silent lately. Anyone know if he's still practicing medicine? If he still has body-guards?

I assume he will be arrested before too much more time passes? This surely cannot go on forever? When he is, anyone know exactly how that works, if the charges are in L.A. and he is in Texas?

Peace,

Vic

 

[Beachlover]

I definitely agree with the respect part. We are, if nothing else, fans of Michael Jackson and I think along those lines, we all want to see what is best for his legacy and that of his children. I think we agree on that.

I think Murray is just biding his time and working to make enough to stay solvent and out of jail for now. I am sure he knows what is coming better than we do.

 

[Mechi]

I think everyone should took serenity out of feeling well and satisfied with what they know and/or think is right and/or correct and just let the others be?
Man in the mirror? maybe like that?

Just everyone try to not look down or someone or something... question yourself everybody and when you feel satisfied that's enough?

Somehow like that it could really work...

 

[Autumn II]

I think everyone should took serenity out of feeling well and satisfied with what they know and/or think is right and/or correct and just let the others be?
Man in the mirror? maybe like that?

Just everyone try to not look down or someone or something... question yourself everybody and when you feel satisfied that's enough?

Somehow like that it could really work...

Mechi, wise words, as usual. I fully agree.

 

[metermaid]

Elusive, Soundmind, Ramona, Beachlover.........and the return of BoG!

your efforts are greatly appreciated.

 

[Datsymay]

Vic, I see that many of the fans in the IU have absolutely no respect for anyone who comes along and questions a theory with a fact. That includes you.

You seek to get them banned and out of the way and then come to this board and continue the bantering and its quite obvious to me.

I DO completely understand how theories work and I think they surely do have a place in all of this too, HOWEVER (and this is a BIG important point), if someone comes up with a theory and throws it out there, the object of investigating is to see if the theory holds any kind of truth or validity. 99.9% of the theories are based on ideas that stem from hate, baseless suspicion and out right tabloid stories only. When these are proven to be false, instead of getting rid of the theory, you get rid of the person who proved it false.

Thats not exactly how police investigations work.

I have read much of your posts and agreed with much of what you said, but I also believe that there is 'TRUTH ' on both sides and there should be room for both. i believe that others were involved in Mj's death, but i do not know that for a fact. i think it would be an injustice to Mj if murray was simply charged and nothing else was investigated.
There is room for both arguments and nobody should be disrespecting anyone.

 

[Ramona122003]

I have read much of your posts and agreed with much of what you said, but I also believe that there is 'TRUTH ' on both sides and there should be room for both. i believe that others were involved in Mj's death, but i do not know that for a fact. i think it would be an injustice to Mj if murray was simply charged and nothing else was investigated.
There is room for both arguments and nobody should be disrespecting anyone.

One of the problems I have with the 'other' theory is that no one can come up with a solid motive besides money and it does not make much sense if you break it down.

Lets go with the first, other doctors were involve and should be charge. Since no other drug besides Murray's was found in his body, they can't charge others doctors with anything. Even if they found medication in there name, it still does not prove anything. Even doctors who gave him the drug in the past cannot be charge because he did not die at those times and the drug is not a control substance. So, you can't really blame other doctors.

He was killed for money. Okay, but how actually gain anything for his death, AEG? They were going to make alot of money from everything surrounding the shows. The lowest estimate was 500 to 700 million dollars. Even if Michael didn't complete all 50 dates, they still could had sold the footage of the concerts and the stuff they sold around it to still make more money that the TII movie. Not to mention they could had sue Michael for breaking contract. So, AEG took a heavy lost. I also doubt they would risk they reputation to assassinate someone just because they might cancel.

Sony, perhaps? I heavily doubt that a company that makes billions a year would risk their reputation to get a catalogue from any artist. Especially when they had a chance to get it cheap in 2007 when Michael was having problems. Not to mention that since they didn't know about his will, how would they even know that the catalogue would be on sell if he died? Since it isn't, seems like a big risk with no gain. They were also going to get alot of money from the tours since all of Michael's musics would go up in sells. So, they were going to make money off of him either way.

Everyone who surrounded him during his last days? Last time I check, no got a thing from Michael's passing. Most are filing claims with no legal standing, so why would they kill someone over money that is a shot in the dark?

In fact, the only people he gained anything from Michael's death is his kids and the charities. Not even his family really got anything since when Mrs. Jackson leaves us, her share goes to his kids.

So the motives of the 'others' theory does not really pan out.