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The Investigation Surrounding Conrad Murray Thread (ALL POSTS/ARTICLES on Charges, etc. GO HERE!)

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Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

I have been reading early reports and just reviewing things. If you read the thread on his death on Lipstick Alley there are several reports that MJ was injected with Demerol at 11:30 and thats what killed him. It is said this report came 'from close family sources'.

It is a while after that when they realize there is a Dr Murray involved and a story of waiting 40 minutes inside the house before calling 911 but that happens AFTER the initial 11:30 Demerol shot story. (we now know it wasn't Demerol and it was no heart attack) So, the time line may have been different.

Just interesting to go back to when it actually happened and see who said what first.

This still means Murray is guilty but it now makes me wonder MORE why he would do this at 11:30. Or..as Soundmind believes, this is not the time at all and he was long dead.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Soundmind said:
no a cancellation would have been devastating to MJ ONLY since he signed a deal with them , AEG no doubt covered that in their contract LIKE EVERYONE ELSE , they would have sued him and got every penny they paid , no need to kill him .

he was always TOO thin , and he used propofol before , he had doctors with him before, he become dehydrated before and cancelled , there was nothing odd about anything .
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NOT accurate, but I'll leave this alone after this post (probably). if they were to sue him they'd surely have had to stand in line. Could have taken quite awhile. They never did get that "non-completion" insurance. The "worth more dead than alive" takes into account the enormous "publicity" his death generated. I see that the Memorial is even up for an award as a "variety show" (and I find that totally obscene, by the way.).

There were those worried that he was so thin that he would die. Then he died. There's really nothing to be said that would counter that fact. No, it was not thinness that killed him. But, it could have been that he was going to cancel. I'm not saying that he was deliberately killed, but I'm surely not saying that he was NOT.

You keep saying, over and over, "there is nothing ODD" about any of it. OF COURSE there is! Nearly EVERYTHING about it is tremendously "odd." We don't KNOW that he was taking Propofol for six weeks. There is no proof, and that is not a "fact." I guess one of the most devastating things about all of this is that Michael is not here to tell us what really happened.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Victoria83 said:
NOT accurate, but I'll leave this alone after this post (probably). if they were to sue him they'd surely have had to stand in line. Could have taken quite awhile. They never did get that "non-completion" insurance. The "worth more dead than alive" takes into account the enormous "publicity" his death generated. I see that the Memorial is even up for an award as a "variety show" (and I find that totally obscene, by the way.).

There were those worried that he was so thin that he would die. Then he died. There's really nothing to be said that would counter that fact. No, it was not thinness that killed him. But, it could have been that he was going to cancel. I'm not saying that he was deliberately killed, but I'm surely not saying that he was NOT.

You keep saying, over and over, "there is nothing ODD" about any of it. OF COURSE there is! Nearly EVERYTHING about it is tremendously "odd." We don't KNOW that he was taking Propofol for six weeks. There is no proof, and that is not a "fact." I guess one of the most devastating things about all of this is that Michael is not here to tell us what really happened.
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That totally disgusts me that the Memorial is up for an award......that is just sick.....Michael should not be treated as a freak show......He deserves more respect than that.

Also I dont believe that Michael was talking propofol for six weeks......that would of showed up in the tox report for hair samples..no?....I thought that a hair sample can tell how long you have been taking a drug and what kind of drug it was.....although as people keep saying that their was no regulations on porpofol because it is not usually given outside a hospital setting....they should still be able to tell......
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

xthunderx2 said:
That totally disgusts me that the Memorial is up for an award......that is just sick.....Michael should not be treated as a freak show......He deserves more respect than that.

Also I dont believe that Michael was talking propofol for six weeks......that would of showed up in the tox report for hair samples..no?....I thought that a hair sample can tell how long you have been taking a drug and what kind of drug it was.....although as people keep saying that their was no regulations on porpofol because it is not usually given outside a hospital setting....they should still be able to tell......
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Propofol IS USED OUTSIDE THE HOSPITAL ALL THE TIME. Everyone here listened to some news person say that it isn't. It is.

Propofol is used for cosmetic surgery, dentists, resetting bones, etc. It IS used outside the hospital and there is also something called 'off label' use for medications meaning a physician is allowed to use a drug for a different purpose than its intended use if it will work for the intended purpose on his patient. So, yes, it is given outside of a hospital setting.

On the tox report, there is a lot we still don't know yet. We only got told what they wanted us to know at this time.

I agree that it seems tacky that the memorial is up for an award, but then I never felt the memorial should have been as 'elaborate' and with performers. Let me explain. It is OK to do that but I felt it was too soon and with the casket there it felt like a stage show to me and not right because it was indeed a variety show.

There was just something too 'show biz' about it and I didn't like it but to each his own. I felt the actual funeral for the family was dignified and proper.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Propofol is NEVER used "at home." Never.

The memorial was slick. TOO slick, given the little time they had to put it together. Unless it was already being planned/in progress before he died? That struck me as I watched, that it shouldn't have been possible to put on such a polished show. Shows like that take a LONG time to prepare. Just wondering. . . .
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Victoria83 said:
Propofol is NEVER used "at home." Never.

The memorial was slick. TOO slick, given the little time they had to put it together. Unless it was already being planned/in progress before he died? That struck me as I watched, that it shouldn't have been possible to put on such a polished show. Shows like that take a LONG time to prepare. Just wondering. . . .
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I never said Propofol was condoned for use at home but since you bring it up...that would be an 'off label' use and it was administered by a physician. Thats one hurdle for the prosecution to overcome.

The memorial was not too slick. It was so Hollywood. If it were planned in advance I can guarantee you that it would have been on TMZ FIRST!!!!!!!!

I have become convinced there is absolutely no way a large group of people could keep such a secret. They can't help themselves. Sorry..but I have to strongly disagree with that part. Not a snowballs chance......
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

A physician who used it outside of a hospital without the medical need and without the equipment to use if he was to run into a problem with his patience.

Six of the values that commonly apply to medical ethics discussions are:
  • Autonomy - the patient has the right to refuse or choose their treatment. (Voluntas aegroti suprema lex.)
  • Beneficence - a practitioner should act in the best interest of the patient. (Salus aegroti suprema lex.)
  • Non-maleficence - "first, do no harm" (primum non nocere).
  • Justice - concerns the distribution of scarce health resources, and the decision of who gets what treatment (fairness and equality).
  • Dignity - the patient (and the person treating the patient) have the right to dignity.
  • Truthfulness and honesty - the concept of informed consent has increased in importance since the historical events of the Doctors' Trial of the Nuremberg trials and Tuskegee Syphilis Study. Help your patience but do no harm and do what is best for your patience. But I am sure you will excuse it
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Beachlover said:
I have been reading early reports and just reviewing things. If you read the thread on his death on Lipstick Alley there are several reports that MJ was injected with Demerol at 11:30 and thats what killed him. It is said this report came 'from close family sources'.

It is a while after that when they realize there is a Dr Murray involved and a story of waiting 40 minutes inside the house before calling 911 but that happens AFTER the initial 11:30 Demerol shot story. (we now know it wasn't Demerol and it was no heart attack) So, the time line may have been different.

Just interesting to go back to when it actually happened and see who said what first.

This still means Murray is guilty but it now makes me wonder MORE why he would do this at 11:30. Or..as Soundmind believes, this is not the time at all and he was long dead.
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the demerol story sure came from the family and their sources, you gotta remember latoya run to the police with two bags full of 'heroine' just to make a point .

no demerol was found in mj's body according to the coroner , that;s why Oxman and his 'friends' shut up comletely , not only that , they even pretended they never mentioned addiction before (marlon) :smilerolleyes:
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Soundmind said:
the demerol story sure came from the family and their sources, you gotta remember latoya run to the police with two bags full of 'heroine' just to make a point .

no demerol was found in mj's body according to the coroner , that;s why Oxman and his 'friends' shut up comletely , not only that , they even pretended they never mentioned addiction before (marlon) :smilerolleyes:
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Yes, I know there was no Demerol but its just the 'time' this was reported that was interesting. It just shows how the news reports things and twists things around. I am surprised with the height of the heels LaToya wears she didn't fall down the stairs with the bags.

She could have used Oxman to sue TMZ since they paid for the house.
CORRECTION: sue AEG (not TMZ)
 
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Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Off-label use of medications is very common. Up to one-fifth of all drugs are prescribed off label and amongst psychiatric drugs, off-label use rises to 31% (Radley, et al. 2006).[5] New drugs are often not tested for safety and efficacy specifically in children. Therefore, it is believed that 50-75% of all medications prescribed by pediatricians in the U.S. are for off-label indications.[6]

Some drugs are used more frequently off label than for their original, FDA-approved indications. A 1991 study by the U.S. General Accounting Office found that one-third of all drug administrations to cancer patients were off label, and more than half of cancer patients received at least one drug for an off-label indication. A 1997 survey of 200 cancer doctors by the American Enterprise Institute and the American Cancer Society found that 60% of them prescribed drugs off label.[7]. Frequently, the standard of care for a particular type or stage of cancer involves the off-label use of one or more drugs. An example is the use of tricyclic antidepressants to treat neuropathic pain. This old class of antidepressants is now rarely used for clinical depression due to side effects, but the tricyclics are often effective for treating pain.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Soundmind said:
the demerol story sure came from the family and their sources, you gotta remember latoya run to the police with two bags full of 'heroine' just to make a point .

no demerol was found in mj's body according to the coroner , that;s why Oxman and his 'friends' shut up comletely , not only that , they even pretended they never mentioned addiction before (marlon) :smilerolleyes:
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It is actually worst since demerol wasn't even in his house when he died. Unless Murray threw it out the window or something. :smilerolleyes:

Also, the corona would be able to tell if Michael took Propofol for 6 weeks or even 6 years. Sound posted several articles when people died from long term use of Propofol and not OD. I think that is what is taken so long since they are looking for more Propofol. This could show that there is a big hole in Murray's 6 weeks story.

Although, that 6 weeks story does not make any sense for the fact that it showed that Murray does not know much about Propofol. Since he was afraid that Michael was becoming addicted to it, yet all research into Propofol addiction shows you don't become chemical addicted in that way.

Also, the choice of drugs to wean him off questions if he really got a medical license.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Beachlover said:
Off-label use of medications is very common. Up to one-fifth of all drugs are prescribed off label and amongst psychiatric drugs, off-label use rises to 31% (Radley, et al. 2006).[5] New drugs are often not tested for safety and efficacy specifically in children. Therefore, it is believed that 50-75% of all medications prescribed by pediatricians in the U.S. are for off-label indications.[6]

Some drugs are used more frequently off label than for their original, FDA-approved indications. A 1991 study by the U.S. General Accounting Office found that one-third of all drug administrations to cancer patients were off label, and more than half of cancer patients received at least one drug for an off-label indication. A 1997 survey of 200 cancer doctors by the American Enterprise Institute and the American Cancer Society found that 60% of them prescribed drugs off label.[7]. Frequently, the standard of care for a particular type or stage of cancer involves the off-label use of one or more drugs. An example is the use of tricyclic antidepressants to treat neuropathic pain. This old class of antidepressants is now rarely used for clinical depression due to side effects, but the tricyclics are often effective for treating pain.
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fair enough , but legally Murray is bound to follow the instructions printed on each ampule of propofol by the manufacture , HE IS BOUND TO FOLLOW THEM , HE DID NOT .

what would be his explanation? what about Midazolam and lorazepam through an IV ? how come he gave mj such DANGEROUS drugs to wean him off propofol .

they were not less dangerous nor less deadly at all , Midazolam is not given to treat insomnia by the way , using midazolam in my humble opinion was more absurd than using propofol. the only advantage they have over propofol was flumazenil , yet murray did not bother to inject mj with flumazenil .

and please Beachlover don't say we don't know whether he gave it or not , because he said i gave propofol, midazolam,lorazepam,lidocian , valum and flumazenil. the coroner said they found propofol, midazolam,lorazepam,lidocaine,valum and ephedrine . so NO FLUMAZENIL was used to save mj by murray


How would he explain that , HOW?
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Victoria83 said:
Propofol is NEVER used "at home." Never.

The memorial was slick. TOO slick, given the little time they had to put it together. Unless it was already being planned/in progress before he died? That struck me as I watched, that it shouldn't have been possible to put on such a polished show. Shows like that take a LONG time to prepare. Just wondering. . . .
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You're absolutely right. I never thought of that.

I was a bit surprised myself at how smoothly it went, and so well organized.

And I remember someone on the news, probably an anchor, saying they were surprised at how peaceful everything turned out with absolutely no problems.

But anyways, back on topic. I am still expecting first degree no matter what comes out right now.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

yeah they planned his memorial when they decided to kill him , what else they planned ? Paris speech and Blanket's gum ????
 
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Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

kasume said:
You're absolutely right. I never thought of that.

I was a bit surprised myself at how smoothly it went, and so well organized.

And I remember someone on the news, probably an anchor, saying they were surprised at how peaceful everything turned out with absolutely no problems.

But anyways, back on topic. I am still expecting first degree no matter what comes out right now.
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I thought of it after watching only about ten minutes. The list of performers was stellar. The videos shown were incredible, as was the selection of music. It looked like a very complex show that had taken months to prepare. That is my OPINION, anyway. It was when I first saw it, and it still is. And now it's been nominated for an award as a "variety show!" That is completely SHAMEFUL. it was Michael's MEMORIAL, not a "variety show."

I think it will be manslaughter, if that. Money can do almost anything. Sorry if I'm so cynical, but I delved into every inch of the trial, and the conspiracy to "get Michael" was absolutely incredible. Plus, look at what they DID to him, swarming all over his house and property with 70 squad cars and cops in riot-gear. Terrifying Michael's children. And all of it. Murray is allowed to come and go as he pleases. He has retained his passport because he's not been arrested. He is practicing medicine. He KILLED someone! He should have been arrested already.

We heard every hunch, every sordid, invented story, about Michael during the "investigation" and then the trial. We've heard absolutely nothing about the investigation of Murray. Uhm, police actually make very little money. Look who they are dealing with! At least think about it?
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

kasume said:
You're absolutely right. I never thought of that.

I was a bit surprised myself at how smoothly it went, and so well organized.

And I remember someone on the news, probably an anchor, saying they were surprised at how peaceful everything turned out with absolutely no problems.

But anyways, back on topic. I am still expecting first degree no matter what comes out right now.
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They were also expecting fans to descend like the plague upon LA and tare the city apart. They expected riots, flames, and everyone charging the Staples Center. Yeah, the fact that hell didn't break loose did surprise some people.

Why is it to make this kind of conspiracy work everyone has to act ungodly stupid? Including Murray who had decided to kill Michael by given him alot of Propofol and pray that no one ask about it, or it somehow disappears. Although he admitted to given Propofol along with other drugs that Michael couldn't take himself and their were no pills in his stomach.

Okay, whatever works.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Vic, let me give you a little reference.

My uncle unexpectedly died of a heart attack and it took them 9 days to bury him. In that time frame he had an autsopy done and they had a wake for him in Texas where he died. They then flow him to Indiana so they could have another wake for him since his family lives here. After that, they drove him 2 hours from where the wake was at to have him buried in a military funeral. This all happen in 9 days.

It took them 12 days to have Michael's memorial and they didn't even bury him. So, they were actually slow.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

For those who think there was "no conspiracy," I'll say that I researched every inch of allegations before Michael's trial, and the trial itself. My opinion is that the conspiracy there was MASSIVE and involved many, many people. So, why would anyone not at least entertain the idea that there was a conspiracy surrounding Michael's death? Whatever. Doesn't really matter. What matters is that there will be enough fans to continue seeking justice for Michael, wherever the truth leads us. And there WILL be enough. . . . .

In terms of the topic, I think Murray will never see the inside of a prison.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Ramona122003 said:
Vic, let me give you a little reference.

My uncle unexpectedly died of an heart attack and it took them 10 days to bury him. In that time frame he had an autsopy done and they had a wake for him in Texas where he died. They then flow him to Indiana so they could have another wake for him since his family lived there. After that, the drove him 2 hours from where the wake was act to have him buried in a military funeral. This all happen in 9 days.

It took them 12 days to have Michael's memorial and they didn't even bury him. So, they were actually slow.
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I'm not talking about an autopsy, or a "wake." I'm talking about the memorial itself, with the music, videos, performers, speeches, and all of that complicated, intricate production, all of it so perfectly tv ready that it's now been nominated for an award as a "variety show."
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

mybe because unlike sneddon they have a case , that's why the don't need the media help to twist stories .
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Soundmind said:
mybe because unlike sneddon they have a case , that's why the don't need the media help to twist stories .
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How would you possibly KNOW that, given the almost total absence of information now?

Sneddon hired a PR firm. So has Murray, or at least his attorneys hired one for him. Wonder who's paying those attorneys, anyway? They work through the goodness of their hearts? Including paying for the PR firm? Murray can't even manage child-support, but he's had body-guards? Guess they are working through the goodness of THEIR hearts, too? I don't THINK so.

Follow the money, now and in the future. At least some of us will be WATCHING.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Diana's funeral was much more stunning and it was done within a week , just saying .

all the songs were MJ's songs , beside ' we are going to see the king' , the only incredible speech came from Sharpton , was he a conspirator?

Marlon' speech was so ........

jermaine's Light up your face with SADNESS ...Hide every trace of Gladness plus his voice ..... GOD what can i say ?

everything beside Jermaine's NO SMILE the memorial was so elegant and tasteful and did not need alot of preparations at all .


do you believe Stevie and lionel were asked by the conspirators to prepare because MJ would be dead and they would perform ?

all I saw were pictures of MJ on a screen , his friends perfoming , so unless his friends knew MJ was going to be killed , no one needed to prepare for anything
 
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Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Soundmind said:
yeah they planned his memorila when they decided to kill him , what else they planned ? Paris speech and Blanket's gum ????
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Why are you being belittling in the way you worded your post here?

Could you not have simply said, "It is my personal belief that this memorial was not planned before Michael's death, and as many of you may know from some of my past posts, I do not personally believe in the conspiracy."


That would have not been worded in an offensive way, like you sarcastic post was.

However, even what I suggested would be off topic in this thread, for it is to discuss "Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?"

So why did you post what you did unless to be sarcastic and belittling?

You seem very intelligent to me, why not be considerate with your wording as well?


Having a different opinion, of course, is fine. Being purposely off topic to get some sarcastic point across is not.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

queen g said:
Why are you being belittling in the way you worded your post here?

Could you not have simply said, "It is my personal belief that this memorial was not planned before Michael's death, and as many of you may know from some of my past posts, I do not personally believe in the conspiracy."


That would have not been worded in an offensive way, like you sarcastic post was.

However, even what I suggested would be off topic in this thread, for it is to discuss "Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?"

So why did you post what you did unless to be sarcastic and belittling?

You seem very intelligent to me, why not be considerate with your wording as well?


Having a different opinion, of course, is fine. Being purposely off topic to get some sarcastic point across is not.
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I did not go off topic , someone else did it, I was not the one who talked about the memorial being an evidence there was a conspiracy to kill mj :mello:
 
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Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Soundmind said:
I did not go off topic , someone else did it, I was not the one who talked about the memorila being an evidence there was a conspiracy to kill mj :mello:
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Then respond, "I do not personally believe that the memorial is evidence there was a conspiracy to kill MJ, but it is fine if you do."

Or calmly, intelligently, without being insulting, state your reasons why you feel that.

And if it is too frustrating for you to be in a thread where others feel that it is evidence, and seem to not receive your viewpoint which you have given in a fair, non-offensive manner,

then maturely choose to leave the thread.


But don't belittle.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Soundmind said:
Diana's funeral was much more stunning and it was done within a week , just saying .

all the songs were MJ's songs , beside ' we are going to see the king' , the only incredible speech came from Sharpton , was he a conspirator?

Marlon' speech was so ........

jermaine's Light up your face with SADNESS ...Hide every trace of Gladness plus his voice ..... GOD what can i say ?

everything beside Jermaine's NO SMILE the memorial was so elegant and tasteful and did not need alot of preparations at all .


do you believe Stevie and lionel were asked by the conspirators to prepare because MJ would be dead and they would perform ?

all I saw were pictures of MJ on a screen , his friends perfoming , so unless his friends knew MJ was going to be killed , no one needed to prepare for anything
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To be fair, I thought Jermaine did a good job on Smile. It actually suites his voice better than most of the songs he sang in the past. It was not the best, but it was not awful, but to each their own.

I also was touched by Marlon's speech and I really don't see why you keep getting on him about the who twin brother thing. I have seen parents cry all the time over a child that was not born and one of my aunts was actually a twin to who dies. She also fills some sadness over it, so to each their own.

Wit that said, I actually like Michael's memorial better than Diane's. Hers would also be more stunning since she was a head of state and not a performer. Just saying.

However, I do agree with everything else.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

queen g said:
Then respond, "I do not personally believe that the memorial is evidence there was a conspiracy to kill MJ, but it is fine if you do."

Or calmly, intelligently, without being insulting, state your reasons why you feel that.

And if it is too frustrating for you to be in thread where others feel that it is evidence, and seem to not receive your viewpoint which you have given in a fair, non-offensive manner,

then maturely choose to leave the thread.


But don't belittle.
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You haven't read some of these people's post, have you. Sound is actually being nice compare to some of the other counter posts I have seen to her statements.

Funny, no one said to not to belittle when they posted something. Maybe because people like you weren't there.
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray to Avoid Murder Charge?

Ramona122003 said:
You haven't read some of these people's post, have you. Sound is actually being nice compare to some of the other counter posts I have seen to her statements.

Funny, no one said to not to belittle when they posted something. Maybe because people like you weren't there.
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Maybe more should speak up when others are responding in such a way. If I had seen the previous posts and others were doing it...or even doing it to Sound, I would have called them on it.

I have nothing against Sound. I am objective. It's not which side anyone is on. It's about the manner somne are using to express themselves to others.
 
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