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The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

Do I believe It Is Michael On The Three Tracks In Question.

  • Yes

    Votes: 152 39.6%

  • No

    Votes: 135 35.2%

  • I Can Not Decide

    Votes: 24 6.3%

  • Maybe in Parts

    Votes: 73 19.0%
  • Total voters
    384
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MJJuniorSinceMW said:
But that's just what he is doin' in here.

90 percent of all his posts are provoking.

He and some affiliates of his are (imho) like cancer to this forum.

I had to get this off my chest.


Though i really think, those individuals have no good intentions, i'm waiting for the whining & uproar from these individuals. Also i'm waiting for my ban.

In every thread, new or old, there's constant negativity from certain people.
Those people either don't know what facts are, or they ignoring the facts, just to keep the arguments going.
And so i would've no problem not posting here for some time, even not visiting the forum.
It's just sad for the majority here, who wants to discuss & talk in peace.
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Practice what you preach. May be if you start treating people with respect, you'll get respect you earned. Look into the mirror and make a change.
 
L.T.D said:
Yeah lets keep all the jokes quiet, wouldnt want any humour to overshadow all the gloom that has loomed over the forums for the past 2 months. Humour shouldnt make people more uptight, there is a certain point in a situation like this where you just need to take a step back and laugh. That doesnt downplay the situation, i'm angry as hell.....but being angry constantly doesnt change anything, life is so strange sometimes that you just have to take a step back and laugh. If someone where to make a joke at my expense now, I would laugh as long as it was good enough.

I just cant believe people are so uptight that they would see an outrageous post such as the one I posted, and just report it.......good grief.

Yay! Now that all of the jokes are out of the way, we can resume repeating the same old points over and over again, while getting absolutely nowhere and remaining as miserable as ever! Happy days :D

Have fun everyone.
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Yes, a pity isn't it? I'm all for humour as well, but if some are sensitive enough to report your post, I guess there's nothing much else to do here except debate as always.
 
Ok, let's try this again. Can we all move on from here and continue to discuss the tracks?

Thanks!
 
First of all I am very sad that Samhabib got banned. His posts were always enlightening

Second, I am happy with the results of this poll. I believe it does not represent the complete truth though. I know for a fact that a lot of people come here and register just to push the "yes" button. Had the registrations closed the day the BN scandal came out, we would now have proper results, and the "yes's" would have been a LOT less. Anyway, results are still good despite their efforts, because that's how obvious this situation is.

I am officially becoming again what I've always been to this forum (and other MJ forums as well), a "silent" member that is, a lurker. Reason I stopped being that for about a month or more, is because I felt this was a time that MY voice had to be heard. Never before had such a serious matter occured in the MJ community (authenticity issue) and it's like what happened to Christianity after Christ (orthodox dogma, catholic etc etc) Generally I know all possible opinions are gonna be expressed to a forum that's why I never used to post often before.

The authenticity matter will not end. It will revive again with the next release, and the next as Sony and the Estate have found a clever way to generate new "MJ" material and are going to stick by it. What matters is that people are aware of this and I am very proud that I contributed to that.

To the rest non-believers I say, keep it up. You are protecting Michael's legacy for his magical voice didn't change at the later years (and we know that damn well from "This is it" movie), neither did his professionalism and need for perfection fade away (to record at crappy equipment of his now grown-up-kids friends).

Those who state it is MJ on the Cascio tracks, know that you hurt and insult MJ whether on purpose or not
 
Arklove said:
Why should it be out of the question? It's a debate..That's what it's about...Why should it matter WHO is challenged? As long as it's done with respect, and I didn't see any disprespect...
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After what happened with Gaz during the leak of KYHU, I wouldn't put it past anyone (moderators or not) to react emotionally to comments. It's not actually out of the question. But for the sake of not stepping on the wrong toes and not getting banned, I think it may be especially important not to offend those in power.
 
I did not display my opinion as fact. It's simply my opinion! That's what I believe. You are allowed to think whatever you want.
 
Thread cleaned, and reopened. I'm hoping it will now stay on topic, and that we can move on from what happened earlier.
 
Here's a thought for the day.

Despite the fact that he's no longer with us.
Despite the fact that 3 of the songs have questionable vocals.
Despite the fact that some of the songs are 10 or 20 years old.
Despite the fact that most of them are finished off demos.

Despite all that, Michael is still easily the best album of the last 12 months.
 
Tony R said:
Here's a thought for the day.

Despite the fact that he's no longer with us.
Despite the fact that 3 of the songs have questionable vocals.
Despite the fact that some of the songs are 10 or 20 years old.
Despite the fact that most of them are finished off demos.

Despite all that, Michael is still easily the best album of the last 12 months.
Click to expand...


You're VERY right!

To me it's the best album since invincible.

Only few artists had quality albums from 2000-2010.

Michael Jackson had two great albums the last 10 years.
 
I am tired of seeing how biased the censorship/banning policy is.

The doubters are censored because of a pure joke, or banned because they're fighting out for the truth, while on the other hand some non-doubter(s) call doubters a cancer!

For God's sake we have a MJJ staff who claimed not long ago that his sources told him directly from SONY that there was going to be a meeting regarding the Cascio tracks because they did hire an impersonator to cover over 50% of the vocals, now (after the supposed meeting) he claims it's 100% Michael on those very songs.

Where are we heading to with respectively such illogical staff recruitment and censorship/banning policy??? And how can we have a fair debate?
 
^
Ain't gettin' over this 'meeting story', like sam hasn't gotten over 'weapons of md story'?

It was smooth, not an official statement / info. Smooth already explained himself more than one time.

Nowhere & no time i called someone cancer. I said in my opinion some are LIKE cancer to this forum, because of spreadin' negativity & bad mood.

There is no censorship on here, only reasonable decision making!

I picture myself also fighting for the thruth.
And for simply having the facts acknowledged, which we have right now.
 
^
1) Smooth NEVER answered my questions!

2) Who do you picture like cancer in this thread?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I am tired of seeing how biased the censorship/banning policy is.

The doubters are censored because of a pure joke, or banned because they're fighting out for the truth, while on the other hand some non-doubter(s) call doubters a cancer!

For God's sake we have a MJJ staff who claimed not long ago that his sources told him directly from SONY that there was going to be a meeting regarding the Cascio tracks because they did hire an impersonator to cover over 50% of the vocals, now (after the supposed meeting) he claims it's 100% Michael on those very songs.

Where are we heading to with respectively such illogical staff recruitment and censorship/banning policy??? And how can we have a fair debate?
Click to expand...

Good post. Maybe someone will actually address these issues one day.

It's been asked numerous times why it's ok for the 'believers' to state 'it's 100% Michael Jackson on those songs' yet, it's not ok for the 'non-believers' to state 'it's NOT Michael Jackson on these songs'...In fact, I asked this very question in my last post in this thread before it was closed, and now, that post was removed...Why is that?

This isn't much of a debate thread when it seems that the 'non-believers' are being censored....
 
@ 1) smooth explained himself

@ 2) please don't provoke with these kind of questions. we've already had it. it seems as if some of the persons feel addressed. i ask you, why?
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Yes they would, and like I said numerous times, if you haven't worked in a studio, it'd be quite hard for you to tell someone what they would hear, or even understand it. Cheap home studio microphones have this certain sound, and when compared to a studio recording, that change is noticeable. First off, if you were to place a microphone in an empty room, and recorded, you would hear the sound of air, and the echoes from the walls, windows, etc. When you record with a person, that sound would be heard all throughout the song, and it drowns out the beat, something that doesn't happen with higher caliber microphones.
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That's not what I said anyhow. My post was in response to the "most people won't notice the difference" comment, which wasn't true. I didn't say anything about what Michael did.
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Sorry, but this is absolutely not true.

Here you go:
-a $150 mic (Kam C3)
-no vocal booth -> everything recorded in one room (!) no echo, no reverb whatsoever

just for you, I uploaded these two snippets of vocals recorded at my friend's basement studio.

http://soundcloud.com/jayjans/snippet-18 t=_self

(here's a direct link if it doesn't work http://soundcloud.com/jayjans/snippet-18)

another snippet recorded on the same mic:
http://www.kaminstruments.com/audio/DD-C3.mp3

95% of casual music listeners won't be able to tell any difference between this type of recording and that from a professional studio.

also, check this out - 100% amateur recording yet sounds so good & normal (compared to the Cascio tracks):
 
MJJuniorSinceMW said:
@ 1) smooth explained himself

@ 2) please don't provoke with these kind of questions. we've already had it. it seems as if some of the persons feel addressed. i ask you, why?
Click to expand...

1) No Smooth did not answer the questions. Yes he did explain himself several times about only one bit of his post, but he never answered the questions that some fans including myself asked him.

2) You compare people on this thread to cancer and I am provoking???? That's the best one I've ever heard!
 
Bumper, i do not want to offend you, or hurt your feelings, nor anyone else.

If it sound s better to you:

Not a single person in here is like cancer!

There were posts & comments which to me were like cancer.

So, to everyone who felt hurt, I AM SORRY for my wrong wording.
It wasn't my intention to hurt anybody!
 
Arklove said:
Good post. Maybe someone will actually address these issues one day.

It's been asked numerous times why it's ok for the 'believers' to state 'it's 100% Michael Jackson on those songs' yet, it's not ok for the 'non-believers' to state 'it's NOT Michael Jackson on these songs'...In fact, I asked this very question in my last post in this thread before it was closed, and now, that post was removed...Why is that?

This isn't much of a debate thread when it seems that the 'non-believers' are being censored....
Click to expand...

Could someone address the bold part? Also, why it appears that the banning policy is more lenient towards the non-doubters?
 
MJJuniorSinceMW said:
Bumper, i do not want to offend you, or hurt your feelings, nor anyone else.

If it sound s better to you:

Not a single person in here is like cancer!

There were posts & comments which to me were like cancer.

So, to everyone who felt hurt, I AM SORRY for my wrong wording.
It wasn't my intention to hurt anybody!
Click to expand...

Thanks for your apology, I appreciate it.

I just don't get why the staff banned Sam and some others are even not reminded of misconduct. And I am not referring only to your post.
 
This is in no way a threat.

If there is no good reason for banning Sam, and if I see that doubters are systematically censored or banned for their opinions, while 'believers' are treated as privileged, I don't see why I'd still support this community. After so many years that I spent here, I am terribly sorry that the situation has degressed at such an extent. I don't want to have impression to support imposters vocals even though I bought three copies of the new album.
 
^^ I don't understand the reasoning behind Sam's ban either. He wasn't being rude, and he brings very insightful, thought-provoking issues to light....He's a fantastic debater...I don't understand it...
 
Alec said:
Sorry, but this is absolutely not true.

Here you go:
-a $150 mic (Kam C3)
-no vocal booth -> everything recorded in one room (!) no echo, no reverb whatsoever

just for you, I uploaded these two snippets of vocals recorded at my friend's basement studio.

http://soundcloud.com/jayjans/snippet-18 t=_self

(here's a direct link if it doesn't work http://soundcloud.com/jayjans/snippet-18)

another snippet recorded on the same mic:
http://www.kaminstruments.com/audio/DD-C3.mp3

95% of casual music listeners won't be able to tell any difference between this type of recording and that from a professional studio.

also, check this out - 100% amateur recording yet sounds so good & normal (compared to the Cascio tracks):
Click to expand...

Where's the studio performance? 95% of casual music listeners will notice a difference in the equipment used. I'd like you to compare that same snippet to an actual studio recording of the same song, I don't understand if you did that yet or not. In most cases, you record in a room without filtering, the outside noises will be picked up. I know this from experience, again, I'd like to hear a studio performance of the same snippet, and not just the one recorded in the basement.
 
Arklove said:
^^ I don't understand the reasoning behind Sam's ban either. He wasn't being rude, and he brings very insightful, thought-provoking issues to light....He's a fantastic debater...I don't understand it...
Click to expand...


I follow several threads in this forum religiously. I don't remember him saying anything that crossed the line. Like I said in my deleted post, he debates with passion because he breathes Michael Jackson. Somtimes, his over-confidence may be mistakened as arrogance. On the other hand, someone he argued with called him a haters in disguise.

Why terms like haters and "fans" (with quotations marks) are allowed to be used to describe doubters?

Also, isn't this a debate thread? Heated arguments cannot not be avoided. Authenticity issue is a sensitive issue. Take a look to the poll result. The community remains divided. Doubters are not the minority here. Even if the doubuters are minority, the doubters should be treated equally.
 
When the truth will come, and it will happen sooner or later.....

Some people will be very sorry for the things that they said and made to the people that defended that the Cascio´s tracks are fake.

There are 38 Mj fan clubs all over the world that defended the Cascio´s tracks are fake.

I don´t know what is happening in this forum....

We want Sam back !!!
 
love is magical said:
I follow several threads in this forum religiously. I don't remember him saying anything that crossed the line. Like I said in my deleted post, he debates with passion because he breathes Michael Jackson. Somtimes, his over-confidence may be mistakened as arrogance. On the other hand, someone he argued with called him a haters in disguise.

Why terms like haters and "fans" (with quotations marks) are allowed to be used to describe doubters?

Also, isn't this a debate thread? Heated arguments cannot not be avoided. Authenticity issue is a sensitive issue. Take a look to the poll result. The community remains divided. Doubters are not the minority here. Even if the doubuters are minority, the doubters should be treated equally.
Click to expand...

The bolded part: this has happened to him SEVERAL times...

I agree with everything else...It's a debate, things are going to get heated, and yes, confidence is KEY, albeit, with respect....I think that people are just a little too sensitive, which is fine, but, maybe they shouldn't participate in this thread then...Just a thought...
 
Arklove said:
Good post. Maybe someone will actually address these issues one day.

It's been asked numerous times why it's ok for the 'believers' to state 'it's 100% Michael Jackson on those songs' yet, it's not ok for the 'non-believers' to state 'it's NOT Michael Jackson on these songs'...In fact, I asked this very question in my last post in this thread before it was closed, and now, that post was removed...Why is that?

This isn't much of a debate thread when it seems that the 'non-believers' are being censored....
Click to expand...

Normally, I wouldn't be too forward with things like this, but really, you're dealing with moderators that mostly believe the songs are authentic. So it is likely, that they happen to relate more to the believers than to the non-believers (a.k.a. one might experience an emotional reaction and response).

Another point is, perhaps the believers, being more sensitive to these sort of debates, report posts more frequently than non-believers. And when coupled with the above possibility, one could feel like the forum is slanted in favour of one side.

What we might need in a situation like this is a middle-man. Someone who represents the rational and logical view of things, and who isn't biased to either side (not a must, but would be a bonus).
 
wolfrevenant said:
Normally, I wouldn't be too forward with things like this, but really, you're dealing with moderators that mostly believe the songs are authentic. So it is likely, that they happen to relate more to the believers than to the non-believers (a.k.a. one might experience an emotional reaction and response).

Another point is, perhaps the believers, being more sensitive to these sort of debates, report posts more frequently than non-believers. And when coupled with the above possibility, one could feel like the forum is slanted in favour of one side.

What we might need in a situation like this is a middle-man. Someone who represents the rational and logical view of things, and who isn't biased to either side (not a must, but would be a bonus).
Click to expand...

You bring up some valid points....Especially the bolded part...I agree....I just feel this forum, this thread especially, needs a heavy dose of objectivity...
 
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