The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Honestly having not heard the original I'm not gonna comment on how it was altered or how half hearted said altering was lol.

Damien Shields said it.

I wasn't there but I remember someone on this forum speaking about the song and they said they loved it. They found it hard to compare it to any other song but they said it was most like Behind The Mask

They said they couldn't stop humming "never to be found again, never to be found again" or something like that, which was the hook of the song and really catchy. It had a thunderous back beat and Michael towards the end of the track was almost only adlibbing Chicago, Chicago, Chicago. They said it sounded like a hit.

I also recall them saying something like, it was lyrically and vocally complete and only left off Xscape because the Estate needed Steve Porcaro's permission to remix it and he didn't want it remixing. - @SmoothCriminal1995

From Damien Shields:

The song “Chicago 1945", on the other hand, makes a number of significant Chicago-related citations. The World’s Fair (which visited Chicago), The Chicago Tribune (local newspaper), Al Capone (of ‘The Chicago Outfit’ fame), and so on. While making these citations it tells the story of a mysterious disappearance in the area. “Three girls disappeared on a cold windy night, never to be found again, never to be found again!” sings Jackson in the first verse. “Who solved the mystery late Chicago night? Ya can’t hide the truth so won’t ya turn on the light,” he continues in the choruses, before launching into a flurry of high-pitched “hoo-hoo” and “hee-hee” ad libs. The track finishes with Jackson chanting “Chicago! Chicago!” over and over in his trademark, gritty (slightly angry) vocal-style. The track was constantly on Jackson’s mind over the course of his career, and was worked on during the ‘Invincible’ sessions and again at Neverland in 2004.

From @morinen, a fan who attended the Brad Sundberg seminar where the song was played:

After the Thriller album came out, during the Victory tour (or maybe right before it) Porcaro submitted a few grooves to Michael. Sometime later MJ called Steve and told him that he wanted to do something with one of them. Apparently, he had gone to the library and read on Chicago of the 1930s-40s, and that’s how he came up with an idea for the song. He and Porcaro met and recorded nine straight vocal takes for what would become “Chicago 1945.”

Of course, it’s impossible to describe music in text, but here are five things you need to know about “Chicago 1945”:
— The song is completed musically an vocally and perfectly releasable as is;
— It has no connection to “Al Capone” or “Smooth Criminal” (another myth) – a completely different and separate song;
— The lyrics tell a story about (three?) girls who went out at night and disappeared;
— It’s a catchy song. Not the level of greatness of “Billie Jean” or “Beat It,” but a solid groove. The hook (“Never to be found again… never to be found again”) was stuck in my head for 3 days after we had heard it;
— As the song was playing, I was trying to find another MJ song to compare it to. The closest I could come up with was “Behind the Mask” – the song is in the same tempo, and even the composition seemed somewhat similar to me. Although I think “Chicago 1945” is sung in a lower key – Michael’s voice is not as resonant as in “BTM.”

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Damien Shields said it.

I wasn't there but I remember someone on this forum speaking about the song and they said they loved it. They found it hard to compare it to any other song but they said it was most like Behind The Mask

They said they couldn't stop humming "never to be found again, never to be found again" or something like that, which was the hook of the song and really catchy. It had a thunderous back beat and Michael towards the end of the track was almost only adlibbing Chicago, Chicago, Chicago. They said it sounded like a hit.

I also recall them saying something like, it was lyrically and vocally complete and only left off Xscape because the Estate needed Steve Porcaro's permission to remix it and he didn't want it remixing. - @SmoothCriminal1995

From Damien Shields:

The song “Chicago 1945", on the other hand, makes a number of significant Chicago-related citations. The World’s Fair (which visited Chicago), The Chicago Tribune (local newspaper), Al Capone (of ‘The Chicago Outfit’ fame), and so on. While making these citations it tells the story of a mysterious disappearance in the area. “Three girls disappeared on a cold windy night, never to be found again, never to be found again!” sings Jackson in the first verse. “Who solved the mystery late Chicago night? Ya can’t hide the truth so won’t ya turn on the light,” he continues in the choruses, before launching into a flurry of high-pitched “hoo-hoo” and “hee-hee” ad libs. The track finishes with Jackson chanting “Chicago! Chicago!” over and over in his trademark, gritty (slightly angry) vocal-style. The track was constantly on Jackson’s mind over the course of his career, and was worked on during the ‘Invincible’ sessions and again at Neverland in 2004.

From @morinen, a fan who attended the Brad Sundberg seminar where the song was played:

After the Thriller album came out, during the Victory tour (or maybe right before it) Porcaro submitted a few grooves to Michael. Sometime later MJ called Steve and told him that he wanted to do something with one of them. Apparently, he had gone to the library and read on Chicago of the 1930s-40s, and that’s how he came up with an idea for the song. He and Porcaro met and recorded nine straight vocal takes for what would become “Chicago 1945.”

Of course, it’s impossible to describe music in text, but here are five things you need to know about “Chicago 1945”:
— The song is completed musically an vocally and perfectly releasable as is;
— It has no connection to “Al Capone” or “Smooth Criminal” (another myth) – a completely different and separate song;
— The lyrics tell a story about (three?) girls who went out at night and disappeared;
— It’s a catchy song. Not the level of greatness of “Billie Jean” or “Beat It,” but a solid groove. The hook (“Never to be found again… never to be found again”) was stuck in my head for 3 days after we had heard it;
— As the song was playing, I was trying to find another MJ song to compare it to. The closest I could come up with was “Behind the Mask” – the song is in the same tempo, and even the composition seemed somewhat similar to me. Although I think “Chicago 1945” is sung in a lower key – Michael’s voice is not as resonant as in “BTM.”

I don't really see how what you posted shows that Steve's editing was somehow objectionable tbh.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I don't know, that part seems more fit as an intro

It isn't bad, but I could leave it. It's the ending of the song that falls flat to me.

 

[Clay7]

Damien Shields said it.

I wasn't there but I remember someone on this forum speaking about the song and they said they loved it. They found it hard to compare it to any other song but they said it was most like Behind The Mask

They said they couldn't stop humming "never to be found again, never to be found again" or something like that, which was the hook of the song and really catchy. It had a thunderous back beat and Michael towards the end of the track was almost only adlibbing Chicago, Chicago, Chicago. They said it sounded like a hit.

I also recall them saying something like, it was lyrically and vocally complete and only left off Xscape because the Estate needed Steve Porcaro's permission to remix it and he didn't want it remixing. - @SmoothCriminal1995

From Damien Shields:

The song “Chicago 1945", on the other hand, makes a number of significant Chicago-related citations. The World’s Fair (which visited Chicago), The Chicago Tribune (local newspaper), Al Capone (of ‘The Chicago Outfit’ fame), and so on. While making these citations it tells the story of a mysterious disappearance in the area. “Three girls disappeared on a cold windy night, never to be found again, never to be found again!” sings Jackson in the first verse. “Who solved the mystery late Chicago night? Ya can’t hide the truth so won’t ya turn on the light,” he continues in the choruses, before launching into a flurry of high-pitched “hoo-hoo” and “hee-hee” ad libs. The track finishes with Jackson chanting “Chicago! Chicago!” over and over in his trademark, gritty (slightly angry) vocal-style. The track was constantly on Jackson’s mind over the course of his career, and was worked on during the ‘Invincible’ sessions and again at Neverland in 2004.

From @morinen, a fan who attended the Brad Sundberg seminar where the song was played:

After the Thriller album came out, during the Victory tour (or maybe right before it) Porcaro submitted a few grooves to Michael. Sometime later MJ called Steve and told him that he wanted to do something with one of them. Apparently, he had gone to the library and read on Chicago of the 1930s-40s, and that’s how he came up with an idea for the song. He and Porcaro met and recorded nine straight vocal takes for what would become “Chicago 1945.”

Of course, it’s impossible to describe music in text, but here are five things you need to know about “Chicago 1945”:
— The song is completed musically an vocally and perfectly releasable as is;
— It has no connection to “Al Capone” or “Smooth Criminal” (another myth) – a completely different and separate song;
— The lyrics tell a story about (three?) girls who went out at night and disappeared;
— It’s a catchy song. Not the level of greatness of “Billie Jean” or “Beat It,” but a solid groove. The hook (“Never to be found again… never to be found again”) was stuck in my head for 3 days after we had heard it;
— As the song was playing, I was trying to find another MJ song to compare it to. The closest I could come up with was “Behind the Mask” – the song is in the same tempo, and even the composition seemed somewhat similar to me. Although I think “Chicago 1945” is sung in a lower key – Michael’s voice is not as resonant as in “BTM.”

How do you find it "hard to compare to any other song" when the drum pattern is nearly identical to Smooth Criminal lol

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I don't really see how what you posted shows that Steve's editing was somehow objectionable tbh.

He changed the order of the song around. It's not a crime but I don't think it was necessary. To add on to the vocal filtering and the instruments that don't mesh well at all, altogether it just takes away from the songs overall oomph.

 

[ChanceToDance]

The track finishes with Jackson chanting “Chicago! Chicago!” over and over in his trademark, gritty (slightly angry) vocal-style. The track was constantly on Jackson’s mind over the course of his career, and was worked on during the ‘Invincible’ sessions and again at Neverland in 2004.

So the song was worked on for Invincible? Is there more proof of this other than the title being on Rodney's website? Someone should ask Damien about that.

 

[Clay7]

While on the topic of C1945. Does anyone know who the other vocalist is on the song? I feel like im the only one who noticed someone else is on it. There is a whisper at one point which is buried under other vocals and it seems to be a female voice.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

How do you find it "hard to compare to any other song" when the drum pattern is nearly identical to Smooth Criminal lol

Because it has no connection to that song, and they aren't that similar otherwise.

It sounds like The Power of Love by Huey Lewis and The News. That's a more apt comparison, by a non-MJ source.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

He changed the order of the song around. It's not a crime but I don't think it was necessary. To add on to the vocal filtering and the instruments that don't mesh well at all, altogether it just takes away from the songs overall oomph.

Dunno man, I think adding something in the intro to the song to better introduce it is fine. Not like he's totally changing it or anything. You're also fine with the remixing the estate does from your previous posts so i find it strange you're calling this out.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

So the song was worked on for Invincible? Is there more proof of this other than the title being on Rodney's website? Someone should ask Damien about that.

We've kinda been over this; no real clue. But the 2004 thing makes a bit more sense: The Ultimate Collection had considered it.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

We've kinda been over this; no real clue. But the 2004 thing makes a bit more sense: The Ultimate Collection had considered it.

MJ didn't work on that as far as we know. Michael Prince etc just went through all his stuff to see what was there.

 

[AlwaysThere]

So the song was worked on for Invincible? Is there more proof of this other than the title being on Rodney's website? Someone should ask Damien about that.

If I recall correctly, Damien said that he asked both Rodney and Fred about it and neither of them had ever heard the title before.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Dunno man, I think adding something in the intro to the song to better introduce it is fine. Not like he's totally changing it or anything. You're also fine with the remixing the estate does from your previous posts so i find it strange you're calling this out.

I'm talking about taking away from the ending. The new intro is fine. And nobody likes vocal filtering anyway. Or the horns.

And the difference between the "remixes" and these alterations is the seamlessness. At least when they scrap everything but the vocals it's only 2 different elements at work. I think MJs vocals work well enough on modern music and it's just a different version next to the originals, if I don't like it, I just won't listen to it. Blue Gangsta just shows how when they try to change the originals they just make it sound worse. So I rather they deviate. Maybe not in every case, I Was The Loser sounds just right to me as it is, but they'll never just release it. Anyway

Meanwhile, John McClain is the only one good enough to "complete" these songs in my estimates. Because Love Never Felt So Good sounds just as good. But that songs basically impossible to get wrong.

Akon did good with his one, and Neff-U is pretty okay, overall. But I can tell when they're modifying the demoes otherwise. There's 3 elements then, MJ, his works in progress, and what they add on to the songs now. Another Day and Hollywood Tonight both ended up sounding very, patchwork. And not as well polished as when MJ was there.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

I'm talking about taking away from the ending. The new intro is fine. And nobody likes vocal filtering anyway. Or the horns.

And the difference between the "remixes" and these alterations is the seamlessness. At least when they scrap everything but the vocals it's only 2 different elements at work. I think MJs vocals work well enough on modern music and it's just a different version next to the originals, if I don't like it, I just won't listen to it. Blue Gangsta just shows how when they try to change the originals they just make it sound worse. So I rather they deviate. Maybe not in every case, I Was The Loser sounds just right to me as it is, but they'll never just release it. Anyway

Meanwhile, John McClain is the only one good enough to "complete" these songs in my estimates. Because Love Never Felt So Good sounds just as good. But that songs basically impossible to get wrong.

Akon did good with his one, and Neff-U is pretty okay, overall. But I can tell when they're modifying the demoes otherwise. There's 3 elements then, MJ, his works in progress, and what they add on to the songs now. Another Day and Hollywood Tonight both ended up sounding very, patchwork. And not as well polished as when MJ was there.

Okay man, I still don't see where you're coming from when it comes to specific claims about the leaked mix considering it's not finished and we haven't heard the original but we can leave it there haha.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Okay man, I still don't see where you're coming from when it comes to specific claims about the leaked mix considering it's not finished and we haven't heard the original but we can leave it there haha.

I still enjoy the song. I just wanna hear the original.

 

[zinniabooklover]

[...] Remember What I Told You would be perfect for that. [...]

Sorry to be a pain. Can anyone tell me more about this song? To the surprise of no-one at all I'm not up to speed on Michael's unreleased stuff. Have never heard of this one. Did a quick search online and on the board, not finding anything useful. I saw a fragment of a lyric, that was pretty much it.

Any info would be great, tia.

 

[ChanceToDance]

Sorry to be a pain. Can anyone tell me more about this song? To the surprise of no-one at all I'm not up to speed on Michael's unreleased stuff. Have never heard of this one. Did a quick search online and on the board, not finding anything useful. I saw a fragment of a lyric, that was pretty much it.

Any info would be great, tia.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608123141485899777

"Recorded 2008. No clue where the "June 19, 2009" stuff came from. Not true. Yes, it's a somewhat comparable vibe to Speechless. Remember What I Told You is nicer, IMO. It had potential to be really special. I wish he'd been able to finish it. Alas."
"It's an incomplete demo with "do do, de de" parts. It starts acapella, but MJ asks for playback. And so then he sings with a piano. The end has multi-layered MJ vocals and finger snaps. It's like 90 seconds in total. Short but very sweet. Fans deserve to hear it. They'd adore it."
(Lyrics) "Remember what I told you, and remember for all time. Do do do do do do do do, dee dee dee dee dee dee."

 

[zinniabooklover]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1608123141485899777

"Recorded 2008. No clue where the "June 19, 2009" stuff came from. Not true. Yes, it's a somewhat comparable vibe to Speechless. Remember What I Told You is nicer, IMO. It had potential to be really special. I wish he'd been able to finish it. Alas."
"It's an incomplete demo with "do do, de de" parts. It starts acapella, but MJ asks for playback. And so then he sings with a piano. The end has multi-layered MJ vocals and finger snaps. It's like 90 seconds in total. Short but very sweet. Fans deserve to hear it. They'd adore it."
(Lyrics) "Remember what I told you, and remember for all time. Do do do do do do do do, dee dee dee dee dee dee."

That is super cool. Thank you so much.

 

[Fuzball]

Nah, it's the way he altered it that feels half hearted.

And he did the cardinal sin that no other producer has done at all, period, and that's alter the structure of the song. He changed the way things go, like the "Chicagooooo" parts. He cut down the ending and the bridge too I think.

*cough, cough* Hollywood Tonight

 

[BlackAnon]

So we must close the book and must say Michael was to lazy to record songs? This was it?

I wouldn't say Michael was lazy but he was selective with recording.....

 

[Dilan]

having a hard time believing damiens heard all of these songs

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

*cough, cough* Hollywood Tonight

Adding crap isn't the same as changing the literal order of things

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

No clue where the "June 19, 2009" stuff came from. Not true.

So that means MJ truly was in horrible shape that day. In that period.

 

[SmoothMel7]

“Dream Away” is the song I’ll forever point to whenever anyone claims the vault is empty. Steve Porcaro kept a fully-recorded song under wraps for 40 years. I refuse to believe that we’ve heard everything there is to hear, or that we know everything there is to know.

I participated in this seminar.
Steve Porcaro said he regretted not having more songs with MJ. But he did say that after Thriller, MJ NEVER stopped recording songs!

 

[SmoothMel7]

Yeah, but I think he said that in reference to the Estate's claims. I agree they do paint a picture of the vault being more limited than what it actually is.

It all depends on what the Estate thinks of a song. It's likely that the Estate feels that "Dream Away" isn't a good song, that it doesn't deserve to be released. Or that this song has no commercial interest...

 

[SmoothCriminal1995]

If I'm honest only A Place With No Name and Price Of Fame (for me at least) lived up to the years of hype

There's been other brilliant unreleased songs, but most just leak or get released without fan or producer hype around them

I think there's more in the vault than the Estate want us to believe, but I think some fans have to temper their expectations on the quality of songs left in the vault, compared to what Mike released in his lifetime

 

[AlwaysThere]

If I'm honest only A Place With No Name and Price Of Fame (for me at least) lived up to the years of hype

There's been other brilliant unreleased songs, but most just leak or get released without fan or producer hype around them

I think there's more in the vault than the Estate want us to believe, but I think some fans have to temper their expectations on the quality of songs left in the vault, compared to what Mike released in his lifetime

Honestly, I think it’s 50/50. Some of the outtakes we’ve received over the years I would argue are just as good if not better than a fair amount of songs that MJ chose to release, though that’s fully subjective. I think it’s smart to keep expectations semi-low, but there have been some instances where an outtake could go head to head with the officially released material.

For me, “Hollywood Tonight,” “The Way You Love Me,” “Best of Joy,” “Much Too Soon,” “I’m So Blue,” “Price of Fame,” “Al Capone,” “Loving You,” and nearly everything on The Ultimate Collection is on par with whatever MJ chose to release from each respective era.

 

[SmoothCriminal1995]

Honestly, I think it’s 50/50. Some of the outtakes we’ve received over the years I would argue are just as good if not better than a fair amount of songs that MJ chose to release, though that’s fully subjective. I think it’s smart to keep expectations semi-low, but there have been some instances where an outtake could go head to head with the officially released material.

For me, “Hollywood Tonight,” “The Way You Love Me,” “Best of Joy,” “Much Too Soon,” “I’m So Blue,” “Price of Fame,” “Al Capone,” “Loving You,” and nearly everything on The Ultimate Collection is on par with whatever MJ chose to release from each respective era.

Absolutely mate! You've listed all my favourite examples as well, I'm So Blue doesn't get enough love.

I just meant in the sense that the songs that have been hyped up, or a demo we knew the title of or the story behind. Those tracks always seem to fail to live up to ridiculously high expectations

Of late most of the MJ songs I listen to are demo's or unreleased tracks to be honest

 

[Victorious]

Kind of. I find it weird how little outtakes there seem to be of that album. It seems as though mj was stripped of material and ideas from 94-97. HIStory reusing a Bad era song and its his only album with a cover. BOTDF being all recycled scraps as well.

I also never totally understood why he was portrayed in his Dangerous tour outfit and pose for the cover of History. Could be because of the military theme of the trailer but still.. I expected something totally fresh at the time

 

[AlwaysThere]

Absolutely mate! You've listed all my favourite examples as well, I'm So Blue doesn't get enough love.

I just meant in the sense that the songs that have been hyped up, or a demo we knew the title of or the story behind. Those tracks always seem to fail to live up to ridiculously high expectations

Of late most of the MJ songs I listen to are demo's or unreleased tracks to be honest

Yeah, I completely agree. Songs like “Buffalo Bill” are destined to be disappointments solely because they’ve been hyped up for years.

Also, much love for the “I’m So Blue” love. Hugely under appreciated song!

And yeah, I’ve rotated MJ’s core catalog to death over the years. Every now and then I’ll find myself returning to albums I haven’t touched in a while, but most often the outtakes are what I’m playing.