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The 'addict' picture the media is painting appears to be sticking

journalists are scumbags with no shame or morals.. i hate how they state everything as being fact. they don't know the meaning of the word.
 
Dependance is a better word to describe it...

From experience -

Painkillers...used for medical purposes..body/brain builds a tolerance to them, need to use more to get the same effect. Not taking them causes withdrawal - even more pain, and fear of excrutiating pain if you don't take them..

because they are opiate based they can disturb sleep...not being able to sleep is common in people who are dependant on painkillers...

...leading to needing sedatives to sleep.

Its very difficult and its very tragic to witness. It really isn't their fault in the end. Its help they need.

IF this is true of Michael, it still doesn't excuse Murrays incompetence. In the end it was all those injections he gave him, and lack of monitoring/ability to respond properly that killed him.
 
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Had to turn Sky news off last night
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i wouldnt even waste your time watching them. murdoch B.S just like fox and the sun and the new york post
 
I just called my Mom and she called him an addict.
I told her *prove it*.
Wow, that sure got her to shut the hell up.

I really don't care any more. They've called him much much worse in life. If this is the best they can come up with, be thankful.
 
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Rockin. said:
Dependance is a better word to describe it...

From experience -

Painkillers...used for medical purposes..body/brain builds a tolerance to them, need to use more to get the same effect. Not taking them causes withdrawal - even more pain, and fear of excrutiating pain if you don't take them..

because they are opiate based they can disturb sleep...not being able to sleep is common in people who are dependant on painkillers...

...leading to needing sedatives to sleep.
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thing is at this stage there is no real evidence to say mj was addicted to painkillers in the last few months. fans arent helping by not reading the facts and the info we have. based on the primliary toxis reports and even statements from murray and that nurse that said he was not on any such drugs and was clean.
 
I'm not a native speaker and for me the word 'addict' is quite neutral..
I don't know what to think maybe he was addicted, or it was dependancy
I have insomnia and I hate nights and I might need to take some pills, am I addict? Should I be ridiculed?
 
daisy said:
I'm not a native speaker and for me the word 'addict' is quite neutral..
I don't know what to think maybe he was addicted, or it was dependancy
I have insomnia and I hate nights and I might need to take some pills, am I addict? Should I be ridiculed?
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Very good point and post.
 
The problem here is people's ignorance about drugs. Amy Winehouse is a junkie. She is addicted to Crack Cocain, and they think that Propofol is a drug like Cocain. It would make more sense comparing someone who is addicted to tobacco with a junkie, then to compare someone who is taking drugs to deal with pain, stress or insomnia to any drug you get high on.

This is the problem with society today, how so many people don't take the time to research on drugs and try to understand the difference of being addicted to a drug that makes you high and drugs that deal with pain and insomnia. Instead of reaching a better understanding, one ends up being judgemental and only making a bad situation worse.

I would suggest to ignore these people who want to paint MJ as a junkie. They don't understand and most of them don't care. They have their views regardless if they are wrong.
 
iv altered my post now, so it doesn't look like i claim to know stuff i don't. im just talking from experience with a family member. i read that murray apparently said he wasn't aware of michael taking any other drugs, but maybe he was saying this to cover his own back? what about those bags of medication found? i really dont see why he'd need to use propofol a hospital anaesthetic for 6 weeks if something wasn't really wrong. that is alarming if it's true.

on a kind of seperate note - looking back at those frequent medical centre visits is worrying, was there ever an explanation for that? can't believe i was more interested in seeing new pics of him than thinking 'why is he always at the medical centre'.. i just thought it was something to do with the tour.

elusive moonwalker said:
thing is at this stage there is no real evidence to say mj was addicted to painkillers in the last few months. fans arent helping by not reading the facts and the info we have. based on the primliary toxis reports and even statements from murray and that nurse that said he was not on any such drugs and was clean.
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Exactly. Winehouse and others took drugs for recreational purposes, and got addicted. They didn't take prescription drugs to kill pain or to sleep and developed dependancy.

K.O.S. said:
The problem here is people's ignorance about drugs. Amy Winehouse is a junkie. She is addicted to Crack Cocain, and they think that Propofol is a drug like Cocain. It would make more sense comparing someone who is addicted to tobacco with a junkie, then to compare someone who is taking drugs to deal with pain, stress or insomnia to any drug you get high on.

This is the problem with society today, how so many people don't take the time to research on drugs and try to understand the difference of being addicted to a drug that makes you high and drugs that deal with pain and insomnia. Instead of reaching a better understanding, one ends up being judgemental and only making a bad situation worse.

I would suggest to ignore these people who want to paint MJ as a junkie. They don't understand and most of them don't care. They have their views regardless if they are wrong.
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After having spoken to some medical professional friends of mine, that work in the surgical departments of the hospital I once worked for, the situation with Michael Jackson and what is going on has become much more clearer about Michael's problem.

I for one am glad to see that someone else here believes that what the media is doing is painting Jackson out to be a flophouse addict. Dependent/addict, it's still what it is. A craving to keep you going at any cost period.

I'm also glad to see that some think along the lines that we knew Michael the entertainer, yet we didn't know the Michael who was behind the closed doors. That was off limits.

I'm not agreeing with the media, but Michael loved playing games and loved being a winner each time. This time, playing the game, of truth or dare, with the so call "milk," that he demanded and in the end took his life.

Dr. Murray didn't have to give this drug to him, could have said no. But when you have a high profile client like Michael Jackson, no is not an word you would use around him, if you expected to keep your job.

You play along with the game and hope it pleases your client. Murray never thought it would maliciously get out of control or end up like it did now. Now Murray and others like him will have to pay the price for enabling an addict/dependent client on drugs, rather than helping him get off the stuff.

Note: I am sorry I don't wish to hurt anyone here or cause grief. We're all in such pain right now as is. I appologize if this is upsetting to anyone.
 
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K.O.S. said:
The problem here is people's ignorance about drugs. Amy Winehouse is a junkie. She is addicted to Crack Cocain, and they think that Propofol is a drug like Cocain. It would make more sense comparing someone who is addicted to tobacco with a junkie, then to compare someone who is taking drugs to deal with pain, stress or insomnia to any drug you get high on.

This is the problem with society today, how so many people don't take the time to research on drugs and try to understand the difference of being addicted to a drug that makes you high and drugs that deal with pain and insomnia. Instead of reaching a better understanding, one ends up being judgemental and only making a bad situation worse.

I would suggest to ignore these people who want to paint MJ as a junkie. They don't understand and most of them don't care. They have their views regardless if they are wrong.
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It doesnt matter if youre adicted to crack, alcohol or prescription drugs. In rehab you learn that one drug is not worse or better than the other. You dont say "well im not as bad as you cuz Im only addicted to propfol not crack". THATS A VERY OFFENSIVE THING TO SAY.
Amy winehouse isnt smoking crack cuz shes a bad person but because shes an addict. To be honest Id smoke crack before id ask a doctor for propofal to get some sleep.
 
Metalfish2 said:
It doesnt matter if youre adicted to crack, alcohol or prescription drugs. In rehab you learn that one drug is not worse or better than the other. You dont say "well im not as bad as you cuz Im only addicted to propfol not crack". THATS A VERY OFFENSIVE THING TO SAY.
Amy winehouse isnt smoking crack cuz shes a bad person but because shes an addict. To be honest Id smoke crack before id ask a doctor for propofal to get some sleep.
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You totally missed my point. I know everything about rehab, thank you very much.

My point is that all though an addiction is an addiction, knowing the difference between the drugs and what they are is essential for anyone wanting to understand the drug problem.

Being addicted to pain killers and being addicted to cocain are two different things. They are both drugs, and they cause an addiction. But the difference is why people take the drugs. And that is where the mistake of accusing someone to be a junkie comes from. Because the word junkie has a stigma attached to it, and the people who accuse someone of being a junkie, automatically view such people as bad people. Here is where the hypocrisy lies.

You are a junkie if you take drugs to get high. You are not a junkie if you take pain killers for every little or big pain you feel. Even people who take these pills for no good reason are not junkies according to society. I am not a junkie because I only smoke tobacco and drink alcohol. But if I snort some Coke, I am a drug addict junkie, menace to society.

You see how wrong this is? Labelling people has never done anything good. It leads to intolerance, ignorance and lack of empathy.

A lot of people take pain killers and many get addicted to them and they don't know why.

Some of the problem is the lack of education about these drugs and doctors not taking better care of their patients.

But if society wants to deal with the drug problem, everyone must know the difference between the legal drugs and the illegal drugs. Painting someone who takes to much pills for pain or whatever as a junkie, JUST like someone who buys drugs to get high is what leads to the ignorance and lack of empathy in society.

I never said a person who takes cocain is a bad person, so pretty please do not attempt to distort my message.



If one does not understand the difference between different types of drugs and what they do, one will never understand why this is a problem for society. The problem is not because we do not arrest people for taking drugs or have weak laws, the problem is that we say some drugs are illegal and some are not. And the end result is a society with more addicts and more money spent on rehab institutions.

Either ALL drugs are bad, or ALL drugs are good. You can't have it both ways.

Some people get a kick out of eating sugar. But sugar is not a drug. Some people think weed is a drug, but it is not. It is very difficult to get addicted to it and it cannot kill you.
But that is not what the government tells people now is it?

Some people think tobacco is not a drug, but it is addictive and it kills people.

When one mix the definition of what a drug is and label some things as drugs and others as not, it can cause a society to have more addicts and the cost of it will be very high.

It is vital that everyone gets the proper education about drugs, and that governments don't distort the truth about it. Unfortunately this is not the case and the result is a problem that will never be solved.
 
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No your getting the point wrong. The difference is the reason for taking them in the first place.

An old lady who becomes dependent on pain med is a bit different from a 21 yr old student who starts takin drugs to give improve their rave in a club and becomes addicted.

Noone is saying anyone is a bad person.

Also, who said Mike was addicted to propofol..?

Metalfish2 said:
It doesnt matter if youre adicted to crack, alcohol or prescription drugs. In rehab you learn that one drug is not worse or better than the other. You dont say "well im not as bad as you cuz Im only addicted to propfol not crack". THATS A VERY OFFENSIVE THING TO SAY.
Amy winehouse isnt smoking crack cuz shes a bad person but because shes an addict. To be honest Id smoke crack before id ask a doctor for propofal to get some sleep.
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on a kind of seperate note - looking back at those frequent medical centre visits is worrying, was there ever an explanation for that? can't believe i was more interested in seeing new pics of him than thinking 'why is he always at the medical centre'.. i just thought it was something to do with the tour.
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klien said he was doing touch up work for the tour on his nose and old acne scares.
 
xthunderx2 said:
Maybe it is obvious to you that Michael was an addict but......that is YOUR opinion. I AM telling you that he WASN'T. You must work for one of the tabloids magazines huh. Because no REAL Michael fan would EVER think Michael was an ADDICT. OBVIOUSLY you did know Michael as well as you thought you did.
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A lot of my friends that are fans think he was an addict and it is your opinion and mine is mine.

I have experience of being an addict and it is hard to accept that he might have been or in my view he was but to me that is the case here. He was on medication for like 20 years and sources and people close to him have been saying he was addicted.

His family wouldn't have tried to get him help if they didn't think he needed it and if it's true he was banging his head against the wall to get medication then it's terrible.

I'm not going to start an argument with you but someone who demands Propofol but it is refused to them, and that conversation with the nutritionist when you could hear him in the background saying "tell her half of my body is hot & half of my body is cold" that is not just a coincidence that is a big alarm bell that something was wrong.

Please don't try and make me sound as though I am part of a tabloid magazine if I was then my user name would be Boycott Michael Jackson.
 
His family wouldn't have tried to get him help if they didn't think he needed it and if it's true he was banging his head against the wall to get medication then it's terrible.
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that was around 2002-03 when he was having issues not now so irrelevent.

and sources and people close to him have been saying he was addicted.
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thats not really a good frame work for a discussion is it?

nd that conversation with the nutritionist when you could hear him in the background saying "tell her half of my body is hot & half of my body is cold" that is not just a coincidence that is a big alarm bell that something was wrong.
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the same woman said she did tests on him and he was clean. whether she can be trusted in anything she says though who knows. the problem is ppl are suing sources and supposed quotes as facts to back up their claims.what about the actual facts and waiting on the them. sadley for the media all they are getting so far is death by lethal amounts of dipvrivan. wheresthe overdose from painkillers etc? its a shame some fans have been sucked in by the meida in calling mj a junkie in 2009. when from what we have seen so far there is no evidence to suggest that.the only allegations coming right after his death from tmz about demoral. and as soon as diprivan came on the scene that went out of the window. and now on the toxics we have diprivan listed and the only other drugs possibly named are sedatives to help u sleep given by a doctor. not what the media wanted
 
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bowen9999 said:
Thanks Slim.... this is the sort of suggestion I was looking for. There already is one great site our there detailing the charitable Michael Jackson: http://www.thesilencedtruth.com/index.php but it's not well publicised.

I think any sort of website should be 'fact' based rather than speculative and should NOT appear to be written by fans (if you know what I mean).
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Re: slimblonde's post--> THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!

Sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread before I had posted last night. Perhaps if we start posting websites like these all through youtube and the networking websites, it can start making a difference.

I just checked out the website:

http://www.thesilencedtruth.com/

and it is absolutely wonderful. I'm posting this website everywhere I make a comment about Michael outside this forum!
 
Elusive Moonwalker keeps dismissing every example form the past as irrelevant. WHat I keep stressing is that ADICT IS AN ADICT HIS ENTIRE LIFE, even after not using drugs or alcohol for an extended period of time. If someone had trouble with prescriptions drugs, alcohol or whatever it may be, it will always be an issue the rest of thier life. Since we know that MJ sought help for precription drugs in the early 90's, any sort of treatment he may be on now will be just as addictive and dangerous 20 years later. Its not jsut gonna go away just cuz he went to rehad 20 years ago.
 
"that was around 2002-03 when he was having issues not now so irrelevant." Nope it isn't irrelevant he needed help and it matters because he obviously needed it. A person who is addicted from about 84/85 onwards til his death is not an irrelevant case it's something that has been dismissed and people pass all the blame to people around Michael.

Let's remember it was Michael's problem and he obviously refused to address the situation and yes people around him in chunks of his life didn't help him but he was responsible to some degree, someone who is addicted to something for a few months and get's help is an addict for the rest of their life.
 
Re: The 'addict' picture the media is per your ainting appears to be sticking

thanks, Chanya

I am still not sure whether some of you re occupied with what people think or with what YOU are thinking about michael
 
ok lets just stop this the person who posted this thread didn't say "was mj an addict or not?" he\she clearly said that the media is painting mj as an addict and trying to make him look like a bad person after his death as they always did and its working and we as mj fans must stop it so if you really love mj you will stop this and remember he was a human who had a tape of problem\addiction and thats something in the human nature we can not stop and in this case the doctor f*cked up really bad and has to take at least some blame for what happened
 
xXMJJXx said:
ok lets just stop this the person who posted this thread didn't say "was mj an addict or not?" he\she clearly said that the media is painting mj as an addict and trying to make him look like a bad person after his death as they always did and its working and we as mj fans must stop it so if you really love mj you will stop this and remember he was a human who had a tape of problem\addiction and thats something in the human nature we can not stop and in this case the doctor f*cked up really bad and has to take at least some blame for what happened
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Yeah but if Mj was an adict, and the media reports it, well...im not sure what there is to argue.
 
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also, you cant make someone look bad by saying they are an adict. Anyone who understands the disease of adiction will know how complex of a situation it is. I dont think the media is out to portray mj in a bad way by saying such things. I think the fans are jsut being too sensitive.
 
Metalfish2 said:
ok then we will talk about the media. I think they have been more than fair. Thye have been extremely kind and generous since his death. Other than the usual suspects ( no need to name them) the media has given an extreme amount of coverage even I might say is excessive. Music videos on all the music chanels that first weekend. Thats MTV, VH1. CNN, MSNBC all did daily coverage and documentarys....On the cover of all the major magazines. No the media is not attempting to ruin MJ. The few negative things that have been said about him dont even compare to the massive coverage of him over the past couple months. I mean seriously I though after his death we were gonna get all the juicey secrets about his plastic surgery, his skin disease, his childrens real mom, his sexuality. Nope nothing that interesting has come up really. THe worst thing so far thats been said is that he was a drug addict? thats nothing.
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are you kidding me have even been watching tv? yes when he died some of them said good things but they sure came back to there nature and they are saying much more things than "he is an addict" some of them are still trying to prove that he was a pedo some are saying he was gay some are reporting about secret boyfriend,girlfriends and kids and much much more horrible things do you even see whats on "tabloid junk" forum how can you say the media has been good to him since his death? unless you work for them
 
ok ok you guys win. The whole world is out to get MJ . Jermaine is out to get him! Joe is out to get him! Oprah is out to get him! Mtv is out to get him!
 
I have yet to read, see or hear conclusive evidence that MJ was an addict to anything. All I know is that he needed help to get off painkillers he was using for his scalp reconstruction surgery. This intervention in 2002 or 2003 was never elaborated upon by MJs family. All there was was rumors.nobody effectively clairified it then. And 'addict' is used in a very derogatory sense when it comes to MJ. They want to paint him as crazy and one that has lost complete control, a mess, a druggie. When I all I can see is that MJ is demanding. But that isn't new to me. If he wants something he tries to get it. He wanted to sleep and he probably thought propofol was safe (that is what some people have said he said but all we have to on his hearsay with no proof).
 
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