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Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

  • Thread starter elusive moonwalker
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

I knew when they spotted Murray in front of the TMZ office, we would hear some more nonsense--and here it is.^^ The defense would need an expert to demonstrate that Michael was psychological addicted if the judge lets the medical information in. Part of me think that the defense mainly want the issue of the medical information and their theory plastered in the media, because they have no real facts to back the theory up.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

ivy said:
And from Murray's response to Klein we learn the following

Murray's defense also argues that as Klein gave his records to the coroner's office he waived physician- patient privilege and therefore has to produce the records to the defense.
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It seems the coronor did a very thorough job. They looked at many different angles ie being able to conclude that MJ could not have self injected. And they were aware of Klein's treatment so they would be able to rule out what can be attributed to his death. The defense is just grasping at straws. And as far as doubt being concerned in a jury its not all doubt has to be removed for a conviction it is reasonable doubt.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

ivy said:
they don't have to go anywhere. It's called reasonable doubt. They are trying to say "look he was addict, he was gonna die, I'm not responsible that other doctor caused this effect etc etc".

They don't have to prove anything. they only need to make the jury to question the situation.



he could be a free agent working with a contract on project basis and not necessarily an "employee"



Personally let's not get too wild with this. I think there's a HUGE mistake in that statement. First of all my understanding is this is not about who will be a witness or not, this is about witnesses bot cooperating with Murray's defense.

For example Murray is wanting Klein's medical records to claim that Michael was addicted to Demerol. Klein refusing to turn them to Murray's defense citing doctor - patient privilege.

I read the transcripts partially before. Murray's defense said that the bodyguards aren't talking to them and saying "read their statements given to the DA". Bodyguards already took the stand in the prelim, it's safe to say that they will take the stand in the trial for the DA.

I think there's an exaggeration and misinformation is going on and that this is solely about witnesses not cooperating with Murray's defense.




they already did. He's just going to read what everyone says, and will look to the records in private and decide about the doctor-patient privileged.
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I disagree Ivy. I forget which Belushi it was but the person who supplied him an addict with drugs was sent to prison. It won't work that he was an addict he was going to die.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

bluetopez said:
I don't see how any juror can sit there and think that really!

To do that they would have to completely ignore the fact that Murray gave MJ Propofol at all especially at home where it don't belong! Then just left him like that without watching him! They would have to be cold hearted not to give a ish about that!
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and that's what DA will argue. Remember there are two sides to this.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

so Demerol is considered morphine right?....hence Michael's song morphine....the lyrics "Oh God he is taking Demerol."....well I looked for it on the coroners report..and it says Morphine..NOT DETECTED.. so this means that Murray and his Demerol withdrawals...are basically bullshit..
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

I would like to know more about this issue with Phillips and Thome. Why were there subpeona's squashed.
 
guys important information

Like suspected the information about Subpoenas and quashing of them has been flawed.

Here's an inside courtroom report from Samantha De Gosson
Court Hearing March 22nd, 2011

(I bolded and underlined important parts)

------------------------------------------------------

Regarding discovery:

Prosecution got a new expert report from the defense today but is still waiting for 2 other.

Prosecution is concerned about the delay in obtaining the final discovery.

Defense claim it’s not their fault it is taking so long and are still waiting for S.I.D. to obtain the high resolution fingerprints scan that were initially sent to the F.B.I. and that S.I.D. is not getting back to them. Judge was Court annoyed and asked why there was so much drama in exchanging and obtaining discovery. Defense said there was no drama but defense mentioned the defense was not conforming to the S.I.D. protocol.

Regarding the jury questionnaire:

Both parties submitted their proposed questionnaire. The Judge also made his own proposed questionnaire which he sent to both parties but none of them claimed to have received it until today but that version had already been revised due to typos and grammatical errors and new questions.

Regarding motions to Quash and/or Subpoena:

Defense has withdrawn the motion for the 3 bodyguards: Michael Amir, Fahim Abdul and Alberto Alvarez.

The motion to subpoena Thome Thome:

This motion was brought up but the defense wanted to go into chambers to discuss Thome.

The judge seemed surprised and asked why it should go to chambers (behind closed doors) and under what pretences.

Thome’s lawyer came up and claimed Thome’s dealings with Michael Jackson were irrelevent in the court room and that Thome had not been personally and properly served with the subpoena and that on that basis alone Thome’s subpoena should be quashed. Furthermore, Thome’s lawyer claims that even if subpoenaed, Thome would be of no service since he had no records of anything to show the court room.

The defense jumped in and said they had proof of service in that matter. Judge said he needed to see the proof before being able to make a decision.

About 45 minutes later the defense came back with a proof of delivery which was signed by a processor at Thome’s residence on March 3rd, 2011.

Judge needs to have the processor come and testify at court on March 28th in order for him to make the final decision on the motion.

Motion to quash subpoena for Randy Phillips and Shawn Trell:

AEG’s lawyer took the stand and claimed that neither work nor have ever worked for AEG!

He stated that AEG is not the same as AEG Live and have nothing to do with each-other and that under the subpoena made it states AEG and not AEG Live so motion should be quashed!

The defense claims they are connected but AEG lawyer denies it. Defense asks judge if they can resubmit the subpoena with AEG Live instead of AEG and asked AEG’s lawyers if they will accept the rectification. AEG lawyer said he would have to ask his clients but would accept the rectification based only on the two individuals personally, not AEG Live.

Judge then quashed the motion to subpoena Randy Phillips and Shawn Trell based on Defense paperwork error.

Motion to quash motion to subpoena Arnold Klein:

Judge ruling: Denied without Prejudice. The ruling is still in Limbo due to the fact that Arnold Klein’s lawyer claims the subpoena was founded on non-proven allegations and inaccurate information by the defense in their written motion to subpoena Klein.

Defense wanted Klein’s medical reports for Michael from October 2008 to June 2009 and that they still haven’t received all records and that Arnold Klein should be subpoenaed.

Klein’s lawyer takes the stand claiming that Klein was out of the country all the month of May 2009 and that therefore the motion is invalid. Motion to subpoena also claimed that Klein gave Michael Demerol and but Klein’s lawyer claims there is no proof.

Furthermore, Klein’s lawyer states that he contacted Weitzman and that he claimed the Estate of Michael Jackson didn’t need Klein to be subpoenaed!

Judge wants Klein’s lawyer to hand the remaining missing documents to the defense in an “on camera review” on April 6th to be able to make a final decision on that motion as well.

Due to all the delays in the handing-over of discovery and the motions the new trial date is estimated to be around the beginning of July, 2011. The date will be decided end of June, 2011.

-------------------------------------------------------------

So as you can see

-- Murray's defense withdrew their request about the bodyguards.
-- Murray's defense made an error in regards to AEG - AEG Live. They can correct it and make another request.
-- Tohme subpoena will be decided on / after March 28th.
-- Klein subpoena will be decided on/after April 6h.

ps: don't jump on that trial delay news as this the only source and a certain date for trial starting in July would need to be decided a lot earlier than end of June. so it seems like there's a misunderstanding there.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Hm if Klein was out of the country all of May 2009 what about his claim?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

will have to look at his claim again
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

qbee said:
Did Dr Kein claim that he treated Michael in May ?
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yes and no

yes - Michael went to Klein's office

no - creditor's claim also mentions other doctors giving Michael treatment during May those doctors are Ilya Reyter and David Rish.

According to his creditor claim Klein saw Michael at May 6th and then didn't see him until June 1. The above physicians looked to Michael during that almost 1 month period.

So it doesn't seem like he's lying - he didn't treat Michael during May 09. or in other words during May Michael got medical treatment at Klein's office but not from Klein.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

if Demerol was not detected at all how is this relevant? No narcotics were found in MJ's system. Don't narcotics stay in one's system for a longer period of time?
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

I agree that they might have a point and I too think Klein was a bad influence in Michael's life. I think he'd deserve to go to jail as well. However Michael didn't die because of Demerol, so I can't see how this is relevant.
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

what klien helped mj get addicted to 20 years ago is irrevelevent. murray tries to push the blame on everyone but himself. he could at least say something related to the case and blamk klien for beinging diprivan into mjs life. smoke and mirrors
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

agree with you guys totally, murray is just trying to blame others, when he was the one that gave michael the drug that killed him.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

nothing but smoke and mirrors. and flanagan obviously doesnt know what his client is charged with if he thinks this is relvent to getting him off. not sure what it has to do with giving dip outside of a home setting with no equipment. sitting talking on the phone non stop when u should have been watching your paitent.not dialing 911. trying to cover up the crime scene. lieing to medics and drs.i guess this is what happens when you have no defence. pathetic excuse for a human being. iguess th e next sub will be for those other drs seeing as klien wasnt even around in may.u can tell the defence case is based on tabloid crap and will do anything to divert from what murray did that night. mjs is the one gonna be ont trial in this case and the judge better not allow that to happen

so the defence can refile re philips? i thought it was just denied and thats it
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

ppl should be careful about making themselves look like they support the defence claims beccause they dont like klien cause yes hes an arseh*** but thats not what this is about
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

i'm posting it here so people don't have to visit their website.


Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

3/22/2011 12:20 PM PDT by TMZ Staff

Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyers just filed blistering legal docs, claiming Dr. Arnold Klein -- Michael Jackson's longtime doctor and friend -- addicted him to Demerol and another powerful narcotic.

In legal papers obtained by TMZ, Murray's legal team claims Klein fueled MJ's drug dependency by giving him scores of Demerol injections in the months prior to his death. TMZ broke the story ... in the 3 months before Jackson died, Dr. Klein gave MJ 51 Demerol injections.

The docs claim, "Due to Mr. Klein's actions, Mr. Jackson became physiologically and psychologically dependent on Demerol."

Murray's team wants Klein to produce all his medical records, claiming "Dr. Klein is a relevant and highly material witness to the defense."


elusive moonwalker said:
what klien helped mj get addicted to 20 years ago is irrevelevent. murray tries to push the blame on everyone but himself. he could at least say something related to the case and blamk klien for beinging diprivan into mjs life. smoke and mirrors
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Exactly.
Michael didn't die from Demerol injection.All of the blames are just distractions.
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

Nice try, Murray, but you can't distract us from what's relevant here. And that is: YOU killed Michael. Full stop.
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

its funny how the defence are making this claim b4 they even have all kliens records to support the claim or even create it in the first place. isnt it normally the other way around?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

elusive moonwalker said:
nothing but smoke and mirrors. and flanagan obviously doesnt know what his client is charged with if he thinks this is relvent to getting him off. not sure what it has to do with giving dip outside of a home setting with no equipment. sitting talking on the phone non stop when u should have been watching your paitent.not dialing 911. trying to cover up the crime scene. lieing to medics and drs.i guess this is what happens when you have no defence. pathetic excuse for a human being. iguess th e next sub will be for those other drs seeing as klien wasnt even around in may.u can tell the defence case is based on tabloid crap and will do anything to divert from what murray did that night. mjs is the one gonna be ont trial in this case and the judge better not allow that to happen

so the defence can refile re philips? i thought it was just denied and thats it
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agree
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

Even though i do reckon klien was giving mj too many drugs but he's not the reason why mj died on june 25th 2009. Murray was the last person who was with mj on that day and is the only one who knows what happened.
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

One thing I've always wondered about is this thing that Michael didn't like needles or had a fear of them. Didn't Cherylyn Lee even say something about him not liking to look at them? Then how could he have let himself get sooo many injections...from Klein, if the records are to be believed and not just padding and from murray, 6 weeks of nightly needle sticks for the IVs?
What I did notice is that when Michael was administered to by another doctor and not Klein, he didn't receive as many injections. For the same procedures. Isn't this just a bit strange?
In any case, what was going on at a dermatologist has not one bit of relevance to the negligence and abandonment by murray of Michael on 25 June.

I can hardly wait to see what the defense will have to say about that. They will have to address it somehow, eventually.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

My head hurts :mello:
 
Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

cinzia said:
One thing I've always wondered about is this thing that Michael didn't like needles or had a fear of them. Didn't Cherylyn Lee even say something about him not liking to look at them? Then how could he have let himself get sooo many injections...from Klein, if the records are to be believed and not just padding and from murray, 6 weeks of nightly needle sticks for the IVs?
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His Lupus skin condition was most likely the motive for that, and they could've given him Prednisone for that, as I previously said. .. It's used to treat inflammatory diseases, and boy, I hate to take part in discussions of this nature, but his skin did often appear to be red and his hands appeared to be red often also, as well as swollen.. towards the last days of his life(...*sigh*), his hands looked better, much thinner and healthier and the redness seemed to have also faded a lot... I do feel there's a plausible explanation for this, that was something related to Lupus, not to mention the swellings and rashes he'd get, they're Lupus-caused and he needed to receive treatment for this, it seemed serious. ):..

...
 
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Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

respect77 said:
I agree that they might have a point and I too think Klein was a bad influence in Michael's life. I think he'd deserve to go to jail as well. However Michael didn't die because of Demerol, so I can't see how this is relevant.
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No one likes Klein he is an asshole but what should he go to jail for? He was in the room when Murray did what he did? And I need to point out to you that Klein was not charged with anything and for now there does not seem to be anything out of line about what he gave Michael and how he was treating him. You people need to stop it with he should go to jail just because I don't like him because some were saying the same thing about Michael.
 
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