Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

[xthunderx2]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

thank you for that update Ivy. Everytime I see that ..".Murray has pleaded not guilty and contends through his attorneys that the pop star gave himself the fatal dose."....its makes me want to do bodily harm to Murray..:chichi:

 

[Vici]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Please forgive me guys, I know its from TMZ

-------------------------------

Dr Conrad Murray's lawyers just filed blistering legal docs, claiming Dr. Arnold Klein -- Michael Jackson's longtime doctor and friend -- addicted him to Demerol and another powerful narcotic.

In legal documents obtained by TMZ, Murray's legal team claims Klein fueled MJ's drug dependency by giving him scores of injections in the months prior to his death. TMZ broke the story... in the 3 months before Jackson died, Dr Klein gave MJ 51 Demerol injections.

The docs claim, "Due to Mr. Klein's actions, Mr. Jackson became physiologically and psychologically dependent on Demerol."

Murray's team wants Klein to produce all his medical records, claiming "Dr. Klein is a relevant and highly material witness to the defense."

http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/22/dr-ar...hter-trial-discovery-witness/#comments-anchor

 

[ivy]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

AP Update

Jackson Doc Seeking Records of Demerol Treatments

Judge to review files sought by Jackson doctor's defense trying to prove Demerol dependency
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

A judge says he will review medical records from Michael Jackson's longtime dermatologist before deciding whether they should be turned over to attorneys defending the doctor charged in his death.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor said during a hearing Tuesday that he will review records kept by Dr. Arnie Klein for the last nine months of Jackson's life.

Attorneys for Dr. Conrad Murray contend Klein got Jackson addicted to the painkiller Demerol through frequent injections.

Garo Ghazarian, an attorney for Klein, denies that claim.

Klein had asked to quash a subpoena to give the files to Murray's attorneys, but Pastor said he wanted to review the records first to see if their release violated patient-doctor confidentiality.

The judge will review the files in chambers on April 6.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press.

 

[ivy]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Please forgive me guys, I know its from TMZ

that's fine Associated Press just ran the story as well.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

I call it ANOTHER smoke-screen by Murray's defense.

I also believe what they "may" find is that Klein PADDED his bills to Michael, knowing that Michael would just pay up without asking any questions.

Aside from the FACT, if there was a so-called Demorol dependency, wouldn't that have been detected during the autopsy?

I mean, wouldn't traces or high amounts of Demorol have been found in Michael's body?

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Throwing stones to hide your hands

 

[Vici]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

AP Update

A judge says he will review medical records from Michael Jackson's longtime dermatologist before deciding whether they should be turned over to attorneys defending the doctor charged in his death.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor said during a hearing Tuesday that he will review records kept by Dr. Arnie Klein for the last nine months of Jackson's life.


The judge will review the files in chambers on April 6.

Woho, what are the chances the judge will say yes?

 

[classic]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Correct me if I'm wrong . . . but didn't the coroner cite the anesthesia as the cause of death and not demoral?

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Woho, what are the chances the judge will say yes?

I'm not sure how this will play out, but I will say that when it comes to "doctor-patient" and/or "attorney-client" relationships, it ain't as easy as it looks in having those types of documents made public.

I remember a while back when Oxman was trying to get Michael's medical records from the hospital. The Judge did grant him "some" access, but it was basically information that was already public, so it didn't really make a difference, in my opinion.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

I call it ANOTHER smoke-screen by Murray's defense.

I also believe what they "may" find is that Klein PADDED his bills to Michael, knowing that Michael would just pay up without asking any questions.

Aside from the FACT, if there was a so-called Demorol dependency, wouldn't that have been detected during the autopsy?

I mean, wouldn't traces or high amounts of Demorol have been found in Michael's body?

I would think so..

Throwing stones to hide your hands

Exactly...Demerol has NOTHING to do with Propofol intoxication ..benzo effect...sorry Murray..you lose.

 

[bouee]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

These 51 injections were discussed in this forum, when it became clear that the defense would be calling Klein.

Based on the creditors claim Klein filed, these injections (we don't know if they were actually demerol-it could have been something else) were done on dates that were not consistent with an addiction.

For example, MJ would spend almost a week without an injection.

I'll try to find the thread and post a link.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

"Due to Mr. Klein's actions, Mr. Jackson became physiologically and psychologically dependent on Demerol."

no kidding?!! psychologically? demerol? lol

they have no physical evidence of dependency and they overcome it by bringing an expert to read his mind and claim a psychological dependency!!!!!

this is their strategy with propofol and now with demerol!!!!! ok, why not also claim a psychological dependency on heroine and cocaine ?

Hope the prosecutors make some efforts and explain to the judge that a junkie would have needed his/her fix of demerol every couple hours , instead of telling him "if true , it's irrelevant"

the minute they say "if true" the judge will allow the defence to bring it as evidence.

between June 6th and 25th, he visited Klien three times and received four IM injections in total for LEGETIMIT cosmetic procedures . How on earth any expert can interrupt this as sign of dependency?

oh I forget , "psychologically dependent" I see lol I call this Drew Pinsky's effect .

 

[bouee]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

the thread were we discussed Kleins creditors claim , page 27, see post 397 and after :

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3285315

besides, Klein was already investigated and was not charged...

the defense is not going anywhere with that...

 

[angelofhope]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

what a load of cr**p. Murray is desperate.

 

[kasume]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

I just heard that randy phillips's lawyer said randy is not an employee of aeg or aeg live.....

 

[Vici]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

I dont which thread I should post this information.. so Ill post it in both

A fan has said she was at court today and all three bodyguards, Dr Tohme Tohme, Randy Phillips and Arnie Klein will NOT be called as witnesses.

According to this person the Klein said he never treated Michael, Dr Thome said he never signed Michael and the attorney for Randy Phillips is not an employee of AEG Live.

Huh? Like i said, This is NOT 100% confirmed by any media yet so lets wait for an accurate confirmation and what I jsut wrote is a fanreport... personally I find it odd that the bodyguards wont testify

 

[bouee]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

The judge will review the files in chambers on April 6.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press.

How will this be done ? the prosecution and defense will be giving their reasons and the judge will decide ? But how can the judge make a decision about that ? He's a judge not a doctor, so how can he make a decision on what is relevant or not in a case like this one ?

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Correct me if I'm wrong . . . but didn't the coroner cite the anesthesia as the cause of death and not demoral?

Exactly. Where did this Demorol allegation come from? In my opinion, Murray is just looking for somebody else to blame as usual. I have my opinions about Klien regarding other issues with Michael. But seriously, if the police had any reason to be looking at him in connection with Michael's death, I think they would have hauled him in for questioning and he would have been charged a long time ago if anything was amiss. If I remember correctly, the police checked every other doctor out and they all came up clean in regards to what ultimately happened to Michael. So what is going on there?

 

[kasume]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

This is NOT 100% confirmed by any media yet so lets wait for an accurate confirmation

well, I pray you're right!!

sharon is right! all this is BEYOND suspicious!! how can the judge fall for randy p. not being an employee for aeg??!!

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Correct me if I'm wrong . . . but didn't the coroner cite the anesthesia as the cause of death and not demoral?

Yes. Demerol has nothing to do with the death of Mike.

One man, Murray, injected the Propofol, an anesthetic, and it's because of this, that Mike died.

So, what will be the next shit poor excuse for the team of morons? They don't know how to read a AUTOPSY?

They need glasses? Or maybe a brain.

 

[ivy]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

the thread were we discussed Kleins creditors claim , page 27, see post 397 and after :

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3285315

besides, Klein was already investigated and was not charged...

the defense is not going anywhere with that...

they don't have to go anywhere. It's called reasonable doubt. They are trying to say "look he was addict, he was gonna die, I'm not responsible that other doctor caused this effect etc etc".

They don't have to prove anything. they only need to make the jury to question the situation.

I just heard that randy phillips's lawyer said randy is not an employee of aeg or aeg live.....

he could be a free agent working with a contract on project basis and not necessarily an "employee"

I dont which thread I should post this information.. so Ill post it in both

A fan has said she was at court today and all three bodyguards, Dr Tohme Tohme, Randy Phillips and Arnie Klein will NOT be called as witnesses.

This is NOT 100% confirmed by any media yet so lets wait for an accurate confirmation

Personally let's not get too wild with this. I think there's a HUGE mistake in that statement. First of all my understanding is this is not about who will be a witness or not, this is about witnesses bot cooperating with Murray's defense.

For example Murray is wanting Klein's medical records to claim that Michael was addicted to Demerol. Klein refusing to turn them to Murray's defense citing doctor - patient privilege.

I read the transcripts partially before. Murray's defense said that the bodyguards aren't talking to them and saying "read their statements given to the DA". Bodyguards already took the stand in the prelim, it's safe to say that they will take the stand in the trial for the DA.

I think there's an exaggeration and misinformation is going on and that this is solely about witnesses not cooperating with Murray's defense.

How will this be done ? the prosecution and defense will be giving their reasons and the judge will decide ? But how can the judge make a decision about that ? He's a judge not a doctor, so how can he make a decision on what is relevant or not in a case like this one ?

they already did. He's just going to read what everyone says, and will look to the records in private and decide about the doctor-patient privileged.

 

[Vici]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

well, I pray you're right!!

sharon is right! all this is BEYOND suspicious!! how can the judge fall for randy p. not being an employee for aeg??!!

I find that strange, as far as I know, Randy Phillips IS hired by AEG..

plus that the bodyguards wont testify?? Im not buying that yet espec regarding the bodyguards.. all of them testified during prelim hearing

Personally let's not get too wild with this. I think there's a HUGE mistake in that statement. First of all my understanding is this is not about who will be a witness or not, this is about witnesses cooperating with Murray's defense.

For example Murray is wanting Klein's medical records to claim that Michael was addicted to Demerol. Klein refusing to turn them to Murray's defense citing doctor - patient privilege.

I read the transcripts partially before. Murray's defense said that the bodyguards aren't talking to them and saying "read their statements given to the DA". Bodyguards already took the stand in the prelim, it's safe to say that they will take the stand in the trial for the DA.

I think there's an exaggeration and misinformation is going on and that this is solely about witnesses not cooperating with Murray's defense.

thats why i also said lets wait for an accurate report because i know the source of this is often misinformed or writes things in a way that makes people misunderstand hehe..i thought it was strange of the bodyguards to not testify really..

 

[kasume]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

I find that strange, as far as I know, Randy Phillips IS hired by AEG..

plus that the bodyguards wont testify?? Im not buying that yet espec regarding the bodyguards.. all of them testified during prelim hearing

This is crazy. they're information could be vital, especially alvarez's!

Okay ivy, so i hope that thome, randy p, and the bodyguards ARE testifying? but against murray, for the prosecution?? Please explain.

 

[bouee]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

So what is going on there?

IMO : They're trying to find reasons to explain how a lot of other people made Michael's insomnia worse. So (still according to the defense) : Michael's insomnia was becoming more and more difficult to handle, Michael became unpredictable, leading to the self injection/he drank propofol.

I think that's where the defense is trying to go.

I don't believe it will work :

Klein was already investigated
Based upon Klein creditor's file, pain killers addiction is not possible
and :
It doesn't explain why Murray gave propofol
It still doesn't explain why Murray was not monitoring his patient
It doesn't explain why it took him more thant 10 mn to call 911
etc, etc ... the list is too long

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Nobody wants to be witness for the killer.

It's time to wake up Murray, you gonna go in jail killer.Hope someone will take good care of him when he will be in jail....

 

[ivy]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

okay ivy, so i hope that thome, randy p, and the bodyguards ARE testifying? but against murray, for the prosecution?? please explain.

I can't say anything about tohme or randy p.

but as the bodyguard took the stand in the prelim for DA, it's safe to say that they will be back in the trial to testify for the prosecution against Murray.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Correct me if I'm wrong . . . but didn't the coroner cite the anesthesia as the cause of death and not demoral?

the defence want to bring an addiction expert that claims MJ suffered from withdrawal symptoms on june 25 , because it had been two days since he last received a 'demerol' injection
guess what according to Murray himself MJ slept like a baby the previous two days so he did not suffer from those symptoms on the 23 and 24 of June , makes perfect sense !!!!
Also to counter the prosecutors' theory which blames Murray for any decline in MJ's health , in other words to explain incident like the one Ortega testified to observe.

Blame Klien for everything that took place in the preceding days and months and blame MJ for the fatal injection .

Murray's choice to give lorazepam and propofol to someone who was expected to dance and sing was perfectly ok , let's point the fingers at Klien and MJ.

they don't have to go anywhere. It's called reasonable doubt. They are trying to say "look he was addict, he was gonna die, I'm not responsible that other doctor caused this effect etc etc".

They don't have to prove anything. they only need to make the jury to question the situation

Thank you FINALLY :clapping:

for those who keep saying " so what if he was an addict, so what if he self injected , so what if he drank it , Murray should have known better ...etc"because that's exactly what the defence want

who told you 12 jurors will convict him because an expert says " he should have known better " ?!!!!!

 

[kasume]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

thanks ivy for the explanation for the guards.

Randy P. and Thome not testifying is unbelivable.....

Nobody wants to be witness for the killer.

It's time to wake up Murray, you gonna go in jail killer.Hope someone will take good care of him when he will be in jail....

He'll probably only serve 4 years....I doubt for murder since accusing Michael or someone else of giving the last dose keeps the possibility of murder charges away. And I believe that's why he's saying someone else may have given the last dose. He probably knows he'll be convicted on IM charges. It's probably murder charges he's fighting against right now. He and his attorneys read that banner 'change charges to murder'.

 

[ivy]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Some basic information to understand subpoenas

what is it?

it's a court document asking a person to do something

what does it cover?

a. Testify at a trial , hearing
b. Produce records / information
c. Appear at a deposition for questioning before trial and/or produce documents at the deposition.

How can you object (motion to squash) a subpoenas and what happens if your objection is accepted?

a. Privileged or confidential information - court looks to information to decide if it's privileged. if there's no way that you can testify without breaking privilege court would nullify the subpoena. If you can answer some questions without getting into information that is covered by the privilege, the court will probably modify the subpoena, ordering you to answer about non-privilege information but also ordering that you not be asked about privileged information.

edited to add: examples of records considered confidential in US are : student records , medical records, personnel files , counselor-student communications, attorney-client communications, confidential research, or other protected materials

b. unreasonable (too broad, too vague, not enough time to respond etc) : (such as asking for 10,000 pages of documents in 2 days) if this the case court would modify it.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

with the defense throwing out ALL of the possible defenses that we have heard from them in the last year...no need for me to list them all ...we all know them...all THIS is just another defense tactic that they are throwing out there...do they NOT think that the average person on the street hasn't in some way shape or form heard about all of these nonsensical defense schemes?? I think this is again..something they are throwing around to see what sticks...how many people will believe it..that is all they have been after all this time..their defense changes. In the end it still doesn't change the fact that Murray was given Michael Propofol and benzo's in a room..in a house..without medical equipment to sustain life should he of need it. ..THAT is what he is on trial for. Murray is trying to direct the attention away from himself...I am sure the court will see this.