Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

think its due to start at 13.30
I dont know what that is....:ninja:..do you mean 1;30pm? thanks Elusive.:)

Ok I googled it..yes it means 1:30..:D....I guess thats military talk...yes sir sir...:lmao:
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Do you get my thing here? Its not about addict in 2009 but wether is was noticed in 1993 in comperensing with 2009. travis payne was in both cases around Michael.


Long term use of propofol was discussed in this forum. My understanding is : it is only used in ICU patients, to help them cope with the ventilators and other "machines" (sorry if the word is incorrect). On these patients, propofol doesn't seem to have bad effects.

Propofol is not a treatment for insomnia, so basically I don't think they know for sure if it has side effects if it's taken regularly, on a daily basis.

In 1993 Michael said he had become dependant on pain killers (the narcotics Elusive was talking about). Now we're talking about propofol and benzos, which is different : the side effects are probably different.

Michael was in a huge long stress in 93, and everybody around him knew about what was going on with the allegations.
Some people noticed he had a problem (Liz Taylor), others who did not know him so well, or who do not know what dependancy / narcotics / benzos do might not have understood the situation, and thought it was the stress he was under.

Now about the way propofol leaves you after an anesthesia, I've read many times you had little if any side effects. I'm no medical expert, but if you need to be sedated, or under anesthesia, it's because you need surgery or a medical examination. How can you tell if the side effects come from the anesthesia or the surgery / medical examination ?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

I dont know what that is....:ninja:..do you mean 1;30pm? thanks Elusive.:)

Ok I googled it..yes it means 1:30..:D....I guess thats military talk...yes sir sir...:lmao:

yeah 1.30 i just do it 24hr clock way to save on the pm
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

OK, if you don't get a long with a member, you have a few choices,

1. Ignore them
2. PM your problems to them
3. Still try to at least answer them civilly

Either one will still allow the thread to flow undisrupted. For the sake of the bigger picture, can we try implementing one f the above?

Thank you.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Ok I googled it..yes it means 1:30..:D....I guess thats military talk...yes sir sir...:lmao:

LOL !!! :D "military time" !! It's another funny cultural difference, here (france), we use "military time" all the time in writing (it's shorter), speaking we use both. But we never say "sir yes sir" !! ;D
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

i think its prob pretty obvious murray wasnt giving it for 6 weeks otherwise it would be june 25th -6 weeks


Exactly.

Hope some REAL DOCTORS will testify against Murray. It gonna be funny to see his face after.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

LOL !!! :D "military time" !! It's another funny cultural difference, here (france), we use "military time" all the time in writing (it's shorter), speaking we use both. But we never say "sir yes sir" !! ;D
wow really..thats great. Yeah I was just joking with that yes sir stuff....I kind of have a dry sense of humor sometimes..lol
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

In the hearing today Thome Thome's attnys. tried to quash a subpoena he'd been seved but judge Pastor denied their motion to quash.

from sharon in the thome thread
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

In the hearing today Thome Thome's attnys. tried to quash a subpoena he'd been seved but judge Pastor denied their motion to quash.

from sharon in the thome thread
thank you for posting here to elusive
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Judge rules Michael Jackson's business manager must testify

Los Angeles (CNN) -- Michael Jackson's former business manager, Tohme Tohme, must testify in the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray, who is accused in Jackson's death, a judge ruled Monday.

Tohme's lawyers argued that their client was not properly served the subpoena, but a process server testified she handed it to Tohme at his home on March 3. A used car dealer testified Monday that he was with Tohme at an auto auction at the time.

"I am satisfied there was service in this case," said Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor, after hearing both witnesses.

Pastor was more concerned about the argument that Tohme's testimony would be irrelevant to the Murray case.

Paul Takakjian, Tohme's lawyer, said the defense was "tossing out a fishing line" without any knowledge that Tohme knew anything that would help their case.

Murray's lawyers argued that Tohme is a critical witness for their defense strategy to prove that Jackson gave himself the fatal dose of anesthesia that led to his death on June 25, 2009.

Tohme had "intimate knowledge of his finances, drug use, his habits" in his final months, defense lawyer Nareg Gourjian said.

Jackson's "financial difficulties at the time is clearly relevant to our assertion that Mr. Jackson self-administered himself with propofol," Gourjian said.

While the defense argument "seems to be a lot of speculation," Pastor said he would let the subpoena of Tohme stand since he was Jackson's business manager at the time of his death. He indicated he would later consider whether to limit the subjects on which Tohme can be questioned.

The defense indicated it wanted to question Tohme about the pressure placed on Jackson in his final months to prepare for the 50 shows he was to perform in London for AEG Live starting that July.

"He (Tohme) negotiated the AEG deal and other witnesses say Mr. Jackson was very angry about this," Gourjian said.

Tohme will not cooperate with the defense by giving them an interview ahead of his testimony, he said.

The court will consider a similar motion next week by Dr. Arnold Klein.

The defense contends the Beverly Hills dermatologist gave Jackson drugs that Dr. Murray did not know about in the weeks before his death.

The Los Angeles County coroner ruled Jackson's cause of death was "acute propofol intoxication," in combination with "the contributory affects of the benzodiazepines."

The court will hold a third day of jury selection next week to build up a pool of "hardship qualified" potential jurors -- those whose families, finances and jobs could withstand a two month trial. The final jury selection process is set for May 4, with opening statements set for May 9.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/28/conrad.murray.trial/
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

That argument is a lot of speculation. Michael was stressed so he gave himself propofol? Ok
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

so since it's a lot of speculation why is the judge even allowing him to talk?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

so since it's a lot of speculation why is the judge even allowing him to talk?
imo..I think Thome has alot to add to this case..I think he knows more than we think...thats probably why he tried so hard NOT to have to testify the question is..will he tell the truth? Lot of people that were around Michael before he died know alot..they just dont want to get called out on it..they all want to avoid being pulled into this case now...to bad they didnt feel like that before Michael passed away..before that all they cared about was WHAT can they get from him..how much money can they make off of him. I think it is time people start talking.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

imo..I think Thome has alot to add to this case..I think he knows more than we think...thats probably why he tried so hard NOT to have to testify the question is..will he tell the truth? Lot of people that were around Michael before he died know alot..they just dont want to get called out on it..they all want to avoid being pulled into this case now...to bad they didnt feel like that before Michael passed away..before that all they cared about was WHAT can they get from him..how much money can they make off of him. I think it is time people start talking.

yeah true.. I see your point. Thome has always been a suspicious character to me. When he was supposed to go on Larry King last year and backed out, I figured he was nervous because he knew the fans were suspcious of him
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

I'm wishing and somehow hoping that more constructive testimony comes out from the cross exam rather than testimony for the defence. He is gonna be a big part of the case if the right questions are asked.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

It would be utopic expecting Thome to tell the truth, he didn't even want to believe he got fired. And he disappeared for a reason, he knows it.

As for that Gourijan (sp) attorney... he can eat it. Jackson was so stresed out that he injested the propofol? .... 0..0 I don't know what these people are on, seriously.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Well what do you expect them to do? You have fans acting like Thome held Michael down while Michael was injected. You got his family saying that bad people were controlling him you expect them not to go down this road?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Well what do you expect them to do? You have fans acting like Thome held Michael down while Michael was injected. You got his family saying that bad people were controlling him you expect them not to go down this road?

The truth is -- we don't KNOW the truth. We don't know what his relationship was really like with Michael, and what his role involved. That's why I'm hoping Tohme doesn't evade testifying.

There was a sudden shift-change in those final weeks/days, and Tohme was OUT. He had a lot of trouble going away, though, and at one point went on tv and said he was "still Michael's manager," when clearly. . he wasn't. He WAS in Michael's life in 2008, and 2009 up to those final weeks/days. He was "President of MJJProductions." It turned out, he said he was "holding money for Michael." Quite a LOT of money. That came out after Michael's death, but has not been pursued, that we know of.

If he testifies, he could most likely speak about Michael's health (up to the time Tohme was canned), his state-of-mind, the contract with AEG, which he negotiated in the summer of 2008, and so on?

I'm not "speculating" about Tohme, but I DO hope he testifies.

We do know some things as facts, though, such as:

Tohme said he was a doctor. IS he? There is no concrete evidence that he is. Did Michael think he was a doctor? We don't KNOW.

Tohme is integral to Colony Capital, that now owns part of Neverland. He was all over their website, but when Michael died, almost all his info vanished from the site.

He said he was "Ambassador-at-Large" for the country of Senegal (that was on the website). The Senegalese government has never heard of him.

We know he was married to Randy Phillips' sister.

He was scheduled to do a Larry King interview, but canceled, and never rescheduled.

He was the one who negotiated the auction. Then, Michael filed a lawsuit trying to stop the auction, and said he was "being robbed." Tohme was fired soon after.

So, we really don't know a lot, except for those facts, above. I hope he testifies, to add clarity to the whole situation.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Yeah but what does any of that have to do what Conrad Murray and Propofol?
 
@bouee
Prop has side effects, after being given, symptoms are dry mounth dirst fussy in the head, like when your sleepy or sick, disorientation, etc
These symptoms are more then 3, in 70 procent and 1 90 procent that’s really high. You are not allowed to drive the next 24 hours, that’s not for no reason.
I spoke with 3 medical persons, doctors, and I also have some education in the medical fiels, as a biolab person and nurse short time, and I have crohn desease so I know also besides the theoretical facts my own experiences backing it up.

The symtoms are alike like the meds from 1993, so that’s why I made the comparasing, and travis payne because he was there both times, he can tell us how Michael in general react on medication. Yes before you asked no he is not the only one…
I also had most of Michaels meds and I know that I had the symptoms..
But he can be a person who can hide it from the rest because the symtoms are not that strong by him, that is possible
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Well what do you expect them to do? You have fans acting like Thome held Michael down while Michael was injected. You got his family saying that bad people were controlling him you expect them not to go down this road?
yeah it seems the defence have taken defence line number 12304949 from the message boards. i think some want thome to testify becasue they think they will then get the truth. but thomes not suddenly gonna confess to anything.its not gonna be a utopian moment where he says yes AEG me colony etc were all in it together and we paid murray toget rid of him sorry but it aint gonna happen. hes gonna evade any question other than the most basic and seeing as he wont talk to the defence i see his testmony being nothing more that a waste of time and more opportunity for the defence to confuse the jury into an aquital

and frankly i dont want thome saying anything. the defence yet again have shown their cards so thats the only good thing to come out of this. but at the end of day murray is the one on trial not AEG not thome and if thome says anything that will help murray get off that is not a good thing.so frankly id rather he not be testfiying at all as its just more smoke and mirrors to confuse the jury
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Murray will not get off just because Tohme testifies..at the end of the day it is still Michael and Murray in that room ...with propfol and benzo's...regardless of how the defense wants to spin it....Murray is still responsible for his patient...they are trying to sugar coat the ending of Michael's life...they are trying to make Murray less culpable,,,that is not going to make a difference in the out come of this case....Murray was the Dr on scene...HE is the one that will be held accountable. Alot of stuff is gonna be said about Michael..and for that I am so very very sad....but some part of the truth has got to come out....we need some type of closure here...it has been almost 2 years since Michael died and all we have heard from Murray is .".Propofol..benzos...Michael did it to himself". The family...."drug addict....and Murray was the fall guy for a bigger plot." I really cannot take any of them anymore....I just want some real answers...maybe TT will help with that ..maybe he wont..idk....but whatever the truth may be...I need to hear some of it because what I have heard up until this point...IS NOT it. ..imo
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Murray will not get off just because Tohme tetifies.
no he wont but it would have been alot better if the sub had been quashed so the defence cant even go down the route that they are now implying. i doubt thome will say a word about anything other than answering whats your name (which could be intresting in itself!) but its just another diversion tactic i just hope the judge does only allow questions on certain things like he hinted at during the ruling. i know some are hoping that they will get info out of his testimony that will help with the theories that have been running since june 09 but this guy is totally self serving. he aint gonna put himself in any bad light. the thing we need to worry about is what he does to mj.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

no he wont but it would have been alot better if the sub had been quashed so the defence cant even go down the route that they are now implying. i doubt thome will say a word about anything other than answering whats your name (which could be intresting in itself!) but its just another diversion tactic i just hope the judge does only allow questions on certain things like he hinted at during the ruling. i know some are hoping that they will get info out of his testimony that will help with the theories that have been running since june 09 but this guy is totally self serving. he aint gonna put himself in any bad light. the thing we need to worry about is what he does to mj.
I know Elusive..and I see where you are coming from...we WILL get through this together..:hug:
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

hugs back at u
 
from sharon in the thome firing security thread


Sorry this is so rushed. I've been sick and am in quite a bit of a hurry as I type.

Ivy I posted it here because this thread was about Thome. This should tie into this thread because whether or not Tohme had the right to fire anyone has now been in dispute even with his own attorneys and I see that him firing security is the heading here along with this thread being about Thome.

You all may have the updates but in case you don't here's an overview.

Tamar Ravid, a process server, testified under oath that she served papers to Thome Ramez on March 3rd. A man by the name of David Marghzar testified that Thome was with him that David from the hours of 8:30a.m. 'till 3:00p.m. The man claimed he had known Tohme for an estimated 10 years and that he considered it to be a business relationship stating he bought cars for Tohme. When asked to give a count he estimated ten receiving about a thousand dollars for each one. They did not cover what specific amount of time the cars were purchased, if they were stretched out or mainly purchased in one or a few years. He claimed he took him to an auction in which no one but dealers could enter and that Thome waited outside and he drove one car to a gate for him to look at during the time they were there. He claimed they attended this auction in Fontana.

Judge Pastor decided to allow the subpoena to stand after hearing witnesses and attorneys positions on the matter.

The defense are still in need of showing relevance for Thome testimony before he will have to appear in court.

An odd moment in the proceedings is when the two attorneys representing Thome countered each other when one stated that Tohme did not work for Michael Jackson on June 25th. When he did this his co counsel immediately stated that was untrue and made claims that he was working for Michael during that time. It's pretty odd when attorneys on the same side publicly argue with each other.

Defense attorneys stated that Tohme is a critical witness for the defense that he had intimate knowledge of finances and alleged drug use, was aware of spending habits and that he saw MJ repeatedly.

Thome's attorneys stated no one has interviewed Dr. Thome and that all the defense is doing is tossing out a fishing line.

Gourjian of the defense stated that it was irrelevant that the prosecution had not interviewed him because he's a defense witness. When judge Pastor asked how would Gourjian be aware of the claimed knowledge Tohme would have he stated due to other witnesses.

Judge Pastor said the reason he was not quashing the subpoena for Thome’s testimony is because the attorneys attempting to quash his testimony asserted he was business manager during time of death.

Apparently there is some issue on the availability of Tohme and judge Pastor indicated that "the body attachment is held."

The next hearing is April 6th concerning Arnold Kline at 9:00a.m. and then April 7th with a continuation of possible jurors at 8:30a.m.


Hope that helps.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

Yeah but what does any of that have to do what Conrad Murray and Propofol?

Absolutely NOTHING. What it's about is Murray's defense grasping at straws, trying to paint Michael as. . the "a-word." Which I'm pretty sure the jury will think is irrelevant.

It's possible, though, that things Tohme says under oath (if he even testifies) will be applicable to Katherine's lawsuit, since Tohme brokered the AEG deal and was with Michael through all of 2008 and nearly half of 2009.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

It's possible, though, that things Tohme says under oath (if he even testifies) will be applicable to Katherine's lawsuit, since Tohme brokered the AEG deal and was with Michael through all of 2008 and nearly half of 2009.
could he take the 5th in relation to the lawsuit or is that only in crim cases.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

why isn't the judge asking what does any of this have to do with Murray giving MJ propofol in a bedroom, not having monitoring equipment and not watching him? what Thome Thome have to do with that? That is what the judge should be asking
 
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