Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

StacyJ · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Has anyone ever confirmed MJ had lupus or not? Klein said it, but I don't know if he's credible. If he was giving MJ injections, I'm pretty sure he will have to disclose what he was treating right? Maybe the judge will read it and say that what Klein was doing had nothing to do with what Murray is charged with

StacyJ · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Also since Klein was investigated and cleared by the DEA, I am sure that the defense will not be able to use anything

Autumn II · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

elusive moonwalker said:
ppl should be careful about making themselves look like they support the defence claims beccause they dont like klien cause yes hes an arseh*** but thats not what this is about

I agree. And agree about the smoke and mirrors. In the end, I hope the jury will have common sense. This is not about what medications Michael did or did not take in the past. Murray had a responsibility as a doctor. One part of that was to obtain Michael's medical records and get a total picture of his health. Did he?

Giving propofol at home, without rescue equipment and additional personnel, is so outrageous that in the end, I truly think the red-herring of Klein won't matter much, if at all. None of this nonsense changes the heart of the case, which was Murray was the last doctor left standing, and Michael died. Murray was on the phone for an extended period. Murray failed to call 911 in a timely way. MURRAY didn't know how to do CPR, or had left Michael alone for such a long time that he was long gone by the time it was realized. And more, and more.

To refute the "Michael was withdrawing from Demerol and Murray didn't realize" would be the TII movie, and Michael's condition (i.e. performing) on those last days. He could not have performed -- much less even STOOD UP? if he was undergoing withdrawal) Plus, there wasn't a trace of opiates in the AR.

Saying that Michael used Demerol in the past is like blaming a rape victim for the crime by saying she "sometimes wore a short skirt." Doesn't MATTER, if only the jury has common sense. And, I think they will.

elusive moonwalker · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

well said

StacyJ · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

AutumnII,

you are so right, especially about this "One part of that was to obtain Michael's medical records and get a total picture of his health. Did he?"

I have to wonder if Murray got any of MJ's medical records or take any exams of him because if he did wouldn't he have noticed any alleged 'addiction' issues before he started his treatments?

I am pretty sure the prosecutors know the answer to this question since the DA said at the preliminary hearing, that Murray took no notes or no records of what and how much he gave MJ at all which once again shows his negligence.

xthunderx2 · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

Autumn II said:
I agree. And agree about the smoke and mirrors. In the end, I hope the jury will have common sense. This is not about what medications Michael did or did not take in the past. Murray had a responsibility as a doctor. One part of that was to obtain Michael's medical records and get a total picture of his health. Did he?

Giving propofol at home, without rescue equipment and additional personnel, is so outrageous that in the end, I truly think the red-herring of Klein won't matter much, if at all. None of this nonsense changes the heart of the case, which was Murray was the last doctor left standing, and Michael died. Murray was on the phone for an extended period. Murray failed to call 911 in a timely way. MURRAY didn't know how to do CPR, or had left Michael alone for such a long time that he was long gone by the time it was realized. And more, and more.

To refute the "Michael was withdrawing from Demerol and Murray didn't realize" would be the TII movie, and Michael's condition (i.e. performing) on those last days. He could not have performed -- much less even STOOD UP? if he was undergoing withdrawal) Plus, there wasn't a trace of opiates in the AR.

Saying that Michael used Demerol in the past is like blaming a rape victim for the crime by saying she "sometimes wore a short skirt." Doesn't MATTER, if only the jury has common sense. And, I think they will.

excellent post ...:clapping::clapping:

angelofhope · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

Autumn II said:
I agree. And agree about the smoke and mirrors. In the end, I hope the jury will have common sense. This is not about what medications Michael did or did not take in the past. Murray had a responsibility as a doctor. One part of that was to obtain Michael's medical records and get a total picture of his health. Did he?

Giving propofol at home, without rescue equipment and additional personnel, is so outrageous that in the end, I truly think the red-herring of Klein won't matter much, if at all. None of this nonsense changes the heart of the case, which was Murray was the last doctor left standing, and Michael died. Murray was on the phone for an extended period. Murray failed to call 911 in a timely way. MURRAY didn't know how to do CPR, or had left Michael alone for such a long time that he was long gone by the time it was realized. And more, and more.

To refute the "Michael was withdrawing from Demerol and Murray didn't realize" would be the TII movie, and Michael's condition (i.e. performing) on those last days. He could not have performed -- much less even STOOD UP? if he was undergoing withdrawal) Plus, there wasn't a trace of opiates in the AR.

Saying that Michael used Demerol in the past is like blaming a rape victim for the crime by saying she "sometimes wore a short skirt." Doesn't MATTER, if only the jury has common sense. And, I think they will.

spot-on :clapping:

StacyJ · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

good point Autumn.. TII will refute the withdrawal and of course Murray's own words to the Insurance carriers, AEG and to Kenny Ortega. How is Murray going to defend his own actions and his own words to those people when he said that MJ is fine and healthy both physically and psychologically? if Murray saw MJ going through withdrawals he should've taken him to rehab instead of pumping him full of addictive sedatives and anesthesia. Hopefully any sane juror will ask the same questions. The jury should also ask why would a cardiologist give a patient anesthesia as a sleep aid?

Ashtanga · Mar 23, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

:fear:

Ingelief · Mar 24, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

ps why do we all have to ask and place here things?? because the titel justected that? my thread was merged here, somebody else got the you got to say it here..

why? because this thread is going to big i believe and its impossible to follow it on every subject.. its nicer to see the subject difference in different threads.. but he thats me.. are you all liking 1 thread???

elusive moonwalker · Mar 24, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

becasue the case section will then become to crowded theres no need for different threads on the same subject. it makes it impossible to keep up

Autumn II · Mar 24, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

elusive moonwalker said:
becasue the case section will then become to crowded theres no need for different threads on the same subject. it makes it impossible to keep up

Right. When independent threads spring up discussing things already under discussion, it makes it very confusing/time consuming. I do think most people who read this thread more-or-less keep up? I just click on "go to last unread post," which makes it convenient. The case is very complex, and fewer threads make it a little easier to manage?

kristinaz · Mar 25, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Feels like the only thing I can't keep up with is the whole camera in the court room thing any news on that like is it going to air live or is it going to be aired later on news stations? Happy to hear jury selections has begun least we can get this thing under way it's LONG overdue!

Petrarose · Mar 25, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

Ingelief said:
ps why do we all have to ask and place here things?? because the titel justected that? my thread was merged here, somebody else got the you got to say it here..

why? because this thread is going to big i believe and its impossible to follow it on every subject.. its nicer to see the subject difference in different threads.. but he thats me.. are you all liking 1 thread???

Whenever you sign on just skim through the thread if all the reading is too much for you. You will certainly get a general idea of what is being discussed.

thrillerchild · Mar 25, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

It's difficult keeping track of the reading on an iPhone screen that's for sure :mello:

Kingofpop4ever3000 · Mar 25, 2011

Re: Dr. Murray: Arnie Klein Made MJ a Demerol Addict

Autumn II said:
I agree. And agree about the smoke and mirrors. In the end, I hope the jury will have common sense. This is not about what medications Michael did or did not take in the past. Murray had a responsibility as a doctor. One part of that was to obtain Michael's medical records and get a total picture of his health. Did he?

Giving propofol at home, without rescue equipment and additional personnel, is so outrageous that in the end, I truly think the red-herring of Klein won't matter much, if at all. None of this nonsense changes the heart of the case, which was Murray was the last doctor left standing, and Michael died. Murray was on the phone for an extended period. Murray failed to call 911 in a timely way. MURRAY didn't know how to do CPR, or had left Michael alone for such a long time that he was long gone by the time it was realized. And more, and more.

To refute the "Michael was withdrawing from Demerol and Murray didn't realize" would be the TII movie, and Michael's condition (i.e. performing) on those last days. He could not have performed -- much less even STOOD UP? if he was undergoing withdrawal) Plus, there wasn't a trace of opiates in the AR.

Saying that Michael used Demerol in the past is like blaming a rape victim for the crime by saying she "sometimes wore a short skirt." Doesn't MATTER, if only the jury has common sense. And, I think they will.

I agree. And my questions for the jury would be these. Do the jurors think it is ok for a doctor to bring several cases of an anesthetic substance into a patient's private home for use when the anesthetic is supposed to be used in a hospital? And should a doctor be responsible for not monitoring his or her patient when the patient is under anesthesia and at the very least providing a substitute supervisor to monitor said patient when there is a time that the doctor is unable to do so and no electronic monitoring equipment is available? And is it ok for a doctor to suspect (as Murray claims about Michael), that a patient has dependence issues with a certain substance and the doctor gives it to them regardless? And do the jurors think it is the doctor's responsibility to find out all he or she needs to know about the patient BEFORE providing any type of care? And do the jurors think it is ok for the doctor to believe (as Murray also claims about Michael), that the patient is witholding vital health information and yet, the doctor still works with the patient, giving the patient medical drugs and anesthetic substances in a private home when, as I said before, the doctor thinks the patient has dependence issues with said medical drugs and anesthetic substances?

Seriously, it sounds to me like we're being told to believe that a certain 50 year-old patient should be totally responsible for his own medical well-being and his 57 year-old doctor, who makes a living by seeing to it that people are healthy, bears no responsibility at all. What's the use of a patient (celebrity or not) having a doctor if the doctor is going to blame the patient for whenever happens to them if the doctor messes up? Why should Murray, a fully grown medical professional, be treated like a five year-old when his job demands that as a doctor, there are certain things that are simply done or not done and that the standard of care must be met without exception or excuse? This whole case is just ridiculous, in my opinion.

StacyJ · Mar 25, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

excellent post above.. Murray is trying to absolve himself of all responsibility which is totally insane to me. Michael was no doctor, and Murray willingly took the job. Since he knew he was dealing with a worldwide famous person who had possible medical issues, why didn't he investigate what he was dealing with? Did he want to make $150,000 for doing absolutely nothing but drugging MJ up and chatting on personal calls?

He claims he didn't sign up for that, whatever 'that' means? he bought 255 vials of propofol, so what exactly didn't he sign up for?

smoothlugar · Mar 27, 2011

Kingofpop4ever3000;3311572 said:
What's the use of a patient (celebrity or not) having a doctor if the doctor is going to blame the patient for whenever happens to them if the doctor messes up? Why should Murray, a fully grown medical professional, be treated like a five year-old when his job demands that as a doctor, there are certain things that are simply done or not done and that the standard of care must be met without exception or excuse?

I agree with all of you.

I think I have already asked this but got no answer:
Please, does anybody know if during the last hearings the syringes tests for amounts of substances have been completed?

It was said some months ago that the tests would take about two months and on 29th December it was the last hearing where this was discussed...

It seems to me that the results are already known but since they are obviously not consistent with the defence hypotheses (lidocaine over propofol in the same ratio as in stomach...), they are resorting now to their other hypotheses (blame on others, strange reactions to other treatments, fingerprints, "narrative cliché"...). But, again, even if the fingerprints showed the victim's, that's NO EVIDENCE at all: syringes could have been touched simply to move them a bit, so as to reach other things on the nightstand; Murray kept everyting in a very untidy way apparently..)

elusive moonwalker · Mar 28, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 22th

theres another hearing today (28th) according to reports think around 13.30

Ingelief · Mar 28, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

im not sure where to post this, and because some of it was merged here. if its wrong pls tell me so it can be re moved..

Its about the propofol, wether he got it for 6 weeks or not: and pls let me be clear i just wanted to know about the prop not saying he a addict or what so ever...

Ok here it is: Murray says he gave michael propofol for 6 weeks. Like i said earlyer in another thread, most people are fussy for at least a day, so thats strange because he was rehearsing. No is my question. Travis Payne was there in 1993 when Michael came addicted to painkillers, did he notice it before michael told the world it??? Because if he noticed it back then michael was different, he did not! notice it in 2009 when he rehearsed for this is it. So then you can maybe say michael did not get propofol for 6 weeks. But if travis payne also did not notice it in 1993 michael was under influence, maybe Michael being a strong atleet of dancing etc, he is one of the few who dont have fussyness all day. So that could mean he was getting propofol for his last 6 weeks.

Do you get my thing here? Its not about addict in 2009 but wether is was noticed in 1993 in comperensing with 2009. travis payne was in both cases around Michael.

elusive moonwalker · Mar 28, 2011

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 28th

it has no real side effects. we arent talking about narcotics

xthunderx2 · Mar 28, 2011