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Preliminary Hearing 7/1/11 Day Four. Discussion thread

Soundmind said:
who is in charge of this account ?

No one ever testified that multiple bottles of propofol were poured into the IV bag . This is insane
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that is the same information that I heard too..from that ustream.....it broke my heart..
 
marebear said:
I think Michael picked Murray. I am not sure though. I don't know what else has to be shown for the decision to go to trial. I don't know how anyone could be so reckless like that.
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Murray was picked by MJ. Murray had been treating MJ's kids and then MJ since 2006 I believe. Michael had no idea that Murray would be so careless and reckless and kill him though. I think Mike knew something was up when he started feeling hot and cold. I really wish he would've followed Nurse Lee's advice and went to the hospital. I'm assuming Murray knew what was happening but he didn't want MJ to fire him because of the money. Murray had to know that giving anethesia daily could not be safe.

I would love to hear from the anesthesia expert that the prosecution will have. Anesthesia everyday as a sleep aid is insane. Murray knows it, that's why he never told the EMTs or the ER doctors about propofol.
 
xthunderx2 said:
I just mean that God lets us make our own choices about what it is we want to do in life...another words God cannot save us from ourselves....believe me I have been mad at God for sometime....and asked him the same question..I still do...but when my sisiter passed away from somthing that she did that was her decision to use....I learned pretty much back then.....God could not save her from using somthing that was not good for her..even if she couldn't help it. That's all...I dont mean to offend anyone ..I just think that I had a break through thats all. When you love someone it is very hard to say goodbye.
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That ok i understand

Im so sorry to hear bout your sister
 
I've not long come out of listening to the live Ustream on twitter, with updates on the court hearing.

The way I heard and understood is that the IV bag ( that normally has saline fluid in) was cut open ( which apparantly is HARD to do, ie hard to cut- very important point esp with possible accusations that MJ somehow injected or consumed the proforol himself) and then placed ie dumped the Proforol fluid into that empty IV bag. :(

This shows to me that Conrad Murray wanted to keep Michael asleep for a while..................as someone else above posted he couldnt be assed to administer it slowly under supervision. :(

It's such a mess. So very sad and absolutely heartbreaking.
:boohoo:
 
xthunderx2 said:
I just mean that God lets us make our own choices about what it is we want to do in life...another words God cannot save us from ourselves....believe me I have been mad at God for sometime....and asked him the same question..I still do...but when my sisiter passed away from somthing that she did that was her decision to use....I learned pretty much back then.....God could not save her from using somthing that was not good for her..even if she couldn't help it. That's all...I dont mean to offend anyone ..I just think that I had a break through thats all. When you love someone it is very hard to say goodbye.
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I am SO sorry about your sister!

I'd like to respond to this, even if it is a little O.T.? On this board there are people of many faiths, and atheists, and agnostics. What we ALL have in common, is the importance of CHOICE. As Michael said, we all "write our histories."

I DO believe in God (and I respect those who don't, too.) I try to do the right thing, according to my conscience about what it means to live a good and ethical life, because in the end, that's all we have? Possessions can be lost or gained, but we have, in the end, our character? But, believing in God as I do, I think that God leaves us free to make mistakes, and hopefully to learn from those mistakes? We are not robots!

Yes, when you love someone, it's hard to say "goodbye." Maybe we never should? In my own case, I will NEVER stop fighting for justice for Michael. That is why I'm with M.J.A.N., and have helped with our initiative (new press-release out now, and the signatures on the petition are about to top three THOUSAND!). I believe in this, and it just is what it is, and to my mind, my choices are correct in that they are ethical as I know ethical to be, and they are GOOD. And that is the very best I can do.

The testimony thus far has been so much WORSE than even I expected. I applaud everyone who is sticking with it, and trying to make some sense of it.

Carry on. . .
 
Autumn II said:
I am SO sorry about your sister!

I'd like to respond to this, even if it is a little O.T.? On this board there are people of many faiths, and atheists, and agnostics. What we ALL have in common, is the importance of CHOICE. As Michael said, we all "write our histories."

I DO believe in God (and I respect those who don't, too.) I try to do the right thing, according to my conscience about what it means to live a good and ethical life, because in the end, that's all we have? Possessions can be lost or gained, but we have, in the end, our character? But, believing in God as I do, I think that God leaves us free to make mistakes, and hopefully to learn from those mistakes? We are not robots!

Yes, when you love someone, it's hard to say "goodbye." Maybe we never should? In my own case, I will NEVER stop fighting for justice for Michael. That is why I'm with M.J.A.N., and have helped with our initiative (new press-release out now, and the signatures on the petition are about to top three THOUSAND!). I believe in this, and it just is what it is, and to my mind, my choices are correct in that they are ethical as I know ethical to be, and they are GOOD. And that is the very best I can do.

The testimony thus far has been so much WORSE than even I expected. I applaud everyone who is sticking with it, and trying to make some sense of it.

Carry on. . .
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thank you...
and I agree...everyone has been working diligently to help get justice for Michael...and he deserves that....and he would be so proud of his fans for having his back one more time...after all isn't that what being an MJ fan is alll about..LOVE..:)
 
xthunderx2,

I am sorry about your sister as well.

Is it okay to say that I will never understand why these things happen? It's so unfair. I do know that Murray made his choices and now he has to be held accountable for that. I hope that people will see how Michael was treated so badly and see that this man should be in jail.​
 
Billie_Jean09 said:
I've not long come out of listening to the live Ustream on twitter, with updates on the court hearing.

The way I heard and understood is that the IV bag ( that normally has saline fluid in) was cut open ( which apparantly is HARD to do, ie hard to cut- very important point esp with possible accusations that MJ somehow injected or consumed the proforol himself) and then placed ie dumped the Proforol fluid into that empty IV bag. :(

This shows to me that Conrad Murray wanted to keep Michael asleep for a while..................as someone else above posted he couldnt be assed to administer it slowly under supervision. :(

It's such a mess. So very sad and absolutely heartbreaking.
:boohoo:
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Ok, that part on UStream, the sound from the phone and the stream kept breaking up, so I didn't really hear all of it, especially that part. Just something about cutting the IV bag open and then the sound got really bad.

But I still don't get this ... how can they know that that's what he did? I mean, you find an IV bag that's cut open with a vial inside (right?), how can you tell that he cut it open, emptied it and then put the Propofol into it? There were only 2 people in the room, Michael and Murray, so how could anybody else know? Unless they found pure Propofol in the bag, that would be a hint. Did they say this as well on UStream maybe?
 
Why hasn't the medical board made any comment yet about Murray? are they listening to the crap this man did to Michael?
 
Yes, we have free will. The choices each of us make have impacts on ourselves, and on others.
 
marebear said:
xthunderx2,

I am sorry about your sister as well.

Is it okay to say that I will never understand why these things happen? It's so unfair. I do know that Murray made his choices and now he has to be held accountable for that. I hope that people will see how Michael was treated so badly and see that this man should be in jail.​
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Thank you....:hug:.....and yes it is ok. Because I still dont understand....I still ask why.....why Michael.....of all people...why him.....I still haven't gotten an answer that has satisfied me yet. I dont think I ever will.
 
xthunderx2 said:
thank you...
and I agree...everyone has been working diligently to help get justice for Michael...and he deserves that....and he would be so proud of his fans for having his back one more time...after all isn't that what being an MJ fan is alll about..LOVE..:)
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You are welcome, and YES, it's about LOVE. Nothing is more important.

Yes, I DO think he would be proud of us. . . . . .
 
StacyJ said:
Why hasn't the medical board made any comment yet about Murray? are they listening to the crap this man did to Michael?
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This is one of the most mystifying things I have EVER heard. He ADMITTED to giving general anesthesia outside a clinical setting, he doesn't even have to be convicted of either IM or 2nd Degree Murder- his admittance alone should be reason to yank his license so that he may NEVER EVER legally tell someone that he is a Doctor.

Most of us flipped burgers, some of us for the rest of our lives- why is this man still carrying a medical license?? I don't care about the restrictions of sedation- yank his god damn license.

That is NOT what the caduceus stands for. NEVER. EVER.
 
Pace said:
This is one of the most mystifying things I have EVER heard. He ADMITTED to giving general anesthesia outside a clinical setting, he doesn't even have to be convicted of either IM or 2nd Degree Murder- his admittance alone should be reason to yank his license so that he may NEVER EVER legally tell someone that he is a Doctor.

Most of us flipped burgers, some of us for the rest of our lives- why is this man still carrying a medical license?? I don't care about the restrictions of sedation- yank his god damn license.

That is NOT what the caduceus stands for. NEVER. EVER.
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I agree..they have been very easy on Murray....he takes a mans life....admits to the propfol....and STILL continues to practice......lets hope that noose around his neck starts to feel tighter..
 
xthunderx2 said:
Thank you....:hug:.....and yes it is ok. Because I still dont understand....I still ask why.....why Michael.....of all people...why him.....I still haven't gotten an answer that has satisfied me yet. I dont think I ever will.
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I don't think I ever will either. I don't even understand where the idea to use propofol for sleep came up in the first place. I have never heard of it until all this happened.
 
Alberto Alvarez testified that he saw the a IV bag with a bottle in it too didn't he?! I also heard that on Ustream because they brought that up to remind people of that testimony to match what we heard today about the same thing!
 
Soundmind said:
The syringe Murray used was 10cc, he did not overdose MJ , he simply gave him a rapid injection because he was talking with his girlfriend and MJ waked up , he did not hang up the phone , he put it into his pocker , grapped a syringe and injected rapidly because MJ was semi awake and coughing , he killed him immediatley .
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This makes a lot of sense, but is so horrible to contemplate!!!!!! I really what to hear what Murray's defense for this will be.
 
Pace said:
This is one of the most mystifying things I have EVER heard. He ADMITTED to giving general anesthesia outside a clinical setting, he doesn't even have to be convicted of either IM or 2nd Degree Murder- his admittance alone should be reason to yank his license so that he may NEVER EVER legally tell someone that he is a Doctor.

Most of us flipped burgers, some of us for the rest of our lives- why is this man still carrying a medical license?? I don't care about the restrictions of sedation- yank his god damn license.

That is NOT what the caduceus stands for. NEVER. EVER.
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Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
It would just appear that Murray cut the bag and put the Propofol in it in an attempt to hide it. It makes no sense for him to put a tube of Propofol in an IV bag why not just pour it in a bag?

This is a vial of Propofol
150px-Propofol.jpg



This is an IV bag
dextrose-5-injection-iv-bag.jpg




see what I am saying?
 
The whole story makes wanna throw up fo sure, can't even eat while reading these stuf, how can CM eat after doing something crazy like this? He's a cold monster :puke:
 
To think of all the countless Docs and Nurses who save lives, who worked the nightshift on Christmas Eve.

I'm so upset, I'm shaking.

What else needs to happen for this license to be yanked in all states where he carries a medical license?

To think of those Docs who lose a patient they actually FOUGHT for.

And this guys flips and lets a father of 3 young children die because he couldn't be bothered to even use the most basic equipment.

Man, free will is sure a bitch at times.

You'd have to put me on suicide watch if I ever was the cause for another to die like that and God knows, ever since I had a child- all life precious, all life.

Bad day. Murray caused so much pain in so many people. Too upset for words.
 
can someone explain why would you put a propofol bottle in the IV bag? what does it accomplish?
 
Hi all, I just read the no discussion report and the last few pages here. Don't have much time tonight.

Was Katherine at court today and how was she feeling?

Last night I had a very hard time sleeping and when I did, it was really weird.

All I could hear in my head was Michael singing "This is too much for me, too much for me. Why d'you do it, why d'you do it? Repeated several times.
I woke up crying.

Later I felt back to sleep again only to wake up with this very strong feeling that Katherine will fall ill and won't make it through this trial and the children will be devastated and damage for good. What a nightmare!

Don't think I can't take anymore of this and the nasty stuff from the defence hasn't come out yet. It's just too incomprehensible why this tragedy happened? :no:

I need to step away. I feel ill.
 
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