Preliminary Hearing 7/1/11 Day Four. Discussion thread

Trials and Tribulations is following Murray Prelim and they are taking detailed notes.They are also making updates from the court. They do not wish their full notes to be copied and posted so as they post a update I'll go through and make a summary here. If you want to read their full posts you can visit Trials and Tribulation website.

Elissa Fleak LA Coroner Investigator

- Fleak arrives at UCLA at 5:20PM for physical examination of the body to see if she can infer anything about the cause of death

- Fleak gets 4 bottles of blood from UCLA for toxicology tests.

- After ER she goes to MJ's house to make observation of the bedroom taking photographs, documenting the room.

- Fleak starts with documenting prescription medications found on the stand. She observes flomax clonazapan, diazapam, lorazapam, tomazapam, trazadone tiziaandine, several pill bottles, tubes of lotion. Hydrocodone. tube of lidocane lotion. benequin. She documents who prescribed what.

- Tube of lidocaine lotion on table. There was a syringe on the table and one on the ground as well, next to the bed. IV bag with connected tubing. Blue “ambu” bag. goes to a nasal canua. Syringe on the table, needle on the floor, they may have been together they may not have been. (this is the one she described as broken syringe) ,an IV stand. saline bag. jug of urine. several urine pads. open box of disposable hypodermic needles. Iv catheters. empty vial of propofol and tomazinil.

- She returns June 29 for her investigation. She learned from detectives that there's additional evidence in the house. She goes to the attached room lined with wooden closets lined with wood. She recovers several items.

- List of the items: 1 black square bag with a zipper. 1 dark blue bag with a zipper with costco on the outside.light blue and brown colord bag. With a zipper with baby essentials bag .Misc. medical supplies. bag full of bedoquin lotions.

- Inside one bag : black pressure cuff, three 30 mil bottles of lidocaine. 2 empty and one of them had some liquid in it. All three of them had been opened.

- Large blue costco bag: saline bag that hat had been cut open with 100 mg propofol bottle inside it (open and had liquid in it). 20ml propofol open with liquid in it. 10 ml morazapam bottle open with liquid in it. 2 bottles of midazalom 10 ml both open both had liquid in them. bloody piece of gauze A bag of miscellaneous medical packaging and finger pulse monitor.

- Other bags: 2 100ml bottles of propofol , 2 20 ml bottles of propofol unopened, 3 20 ml bottles of lidocaine opened.1 30 mil bottle of lido unopened 20 ml bottle of diazolam opened 1 4ml of diazopam unopened etc (this is not a complete list)

- Additional items : Red pill bottle with no label that contained 14 caples turend out ot be emphederine. Over the counter night drops. Five business cards of Dr. Murray.IV clamp blue strip of rubber.

- Overall : 11 bottles of propofol + 1 empty propofol bottle on the floor = 12 bottles of propofol. 6 bottles of lidocaine
 
Ivdont need to ask google.

Good for you, I wish I was that smart.

Google is not a phyhsician. Trazadone assists with mood and assists with sleep. You do not have to have a mood disorder to be prescribed itm my doctor wanted to prescribe it to me for sleep. To be specific it assists with sleep depression or anxiety. It is not addictive. A lot of misinformation is beiong spread around by fans pretending to be experts.

Like I said, I actually know it, just under a different name. I took it as well for a while a couple of years ago for my insomnia. It IS an antidepressant, a so called tricyclic antidepressant. That's all I said, trying to tell people that it's not addictive. It's given for depression, but also for insomnia, as it is not addictive like benzos or barbiturates.
 
The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”Did it have liquid in it? Yes.Did you have it finegerprinted? I don’t remember.This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it. Yes. And in the tubing hand an IV in it?half way from the tubing there was a clamp THAT'S THE Y CONNECTOR and that clamp had a syringe in it.The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liqued in the syringe?Was the plunger completely depressed? I don’t remember exactly where it was.Was there residue? I don’t remember?Was there more tubing below that IV port? yes.Did that tubing have liquid in it? I do’n’t remember?Did the tubing above it have liquid in it? yes.Was that clear? YesWas the IV bag clear? Yes.Did it have a milky appearance to it? It was clear.


the Y connecter =the CLAMP = IV port where the syringe was injected and the plunger was completely depressed =BOLUS INJECTION

above the clamo the liquide was CLEAR , below was the 13.5 SHORT TUBING with propofol traces.

What that means?.... EXACTLY BOLUS INJECTION BY SOMEONE ELSE.

Re read carefully

It's over for Murray officially
 
Soundmind;3180868 said:
The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”Did it have liquid in it? Yes.Did you have it finegerprinted? I don’t remember.This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it. Yes. And in the tubing hand an IV in it?half way from the tubing there was a clamp THAT'S THE Y CONNECTOR and that clamp had a syringe in it.The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liqued in the syringe?Was the plunger completely depressed? I don’t remember exactly where it was.Was there residue? I don’t remember?Was there more tubing below that IV port? yes.Did that tubing have liquid in it? I do’n’t remember?Did the tubing above it have liquid in it? yes.Was that clear? YesWas the IV bag clear? Yes.Did it have a milky appearance to it? It was clear.


the Y connecter =the CLAMP = IV port where the syringe was injected and the plunger was completely depressed =BOLUS INJECTION

above the clamo the liquide was CLEAR , below was the 13.5 SHORT TUBING with propofol traces.

What that means?.... EXACTLY BOLUS INJECTION BY SOMEONE ELSE.

Re read carefully

It's over for Murray officially


what a depressed plunger?
 
below was the 13.5 SHORT TUBING with propofol traces.
What that means?.... EXACTLY BOLUS INJECTION BY SOMEONE ELSE.

It's over for Murray officially
Can you explain why this means it's over for Murray and why "by someone else"?

If the IV was in MJ's leg. And there was a 13,5" tube from the Y-connector to the IV in his leg, he could've easily reached the Y connector, I think, and have pushed down the syringe with propofol by himself...

I'm not saying that's what he did, but I'm trying to envision how the scene would have looked, with the tubelengths etc, wouldn't it be possible for the defense to argue MJ could've done it himself?
 
CNN In Session

Elissa Fleak was the next witness called to the stand. She’s been a Coroner Investigator for the L.A. County Coroner for the past 8 years.

Fleak performed an external body exam on MJ on 6/25/09 and says she did not see obvious signs of a cause of death.

Fleak also went to Jackson’s home to examine his bedroom - where she took pics and collected ‘several pill bottles’ from beside his bed.

Fleak says the prescribing physician on all the prescription medicines, whether in pill or cream form, was Dr. Conrad Murray.

Fleak notes items she found in MJ bedroom – an I.V. stand, what appeared to be a jug of urine and an unopened box of hypodermic needles.

She also says she recovered an empty 200 milligram bottle of Propofol.

Fleak returned to the Jackson home 6/29/09 and inventoried items from 4 different bags found in MJ bedroom.

Among the items inventoried, Fleak noted a blood pressure pump, a saline bag, gauze, a finger pulse monitor and 11 bottles of Propofol

In total, there were 12 bottles of Propofol found and documented in Jackson's room.

On cross Fleak says a needle on the bedroom floor was about a foot away from Jackson’s bed - while the Propofol was ‘a couple of feet away’.

The defense ended its questioning and there is no redirect examination. Elissa Fleak is dismissed.
 
So far so good then. I was nervous earlier about them resting so fast.
Soundmind;3180868 said:
The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”Did it have liquid in it? Yes.Did you have it finegerprinted? I don’t remember.This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it. Yes. And in the tubing hand an IV in it?half way from the tubing there was a clamp THAT'S THE Y CONNECTOR and that clamp had a syringe in it.The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liqued in the syringe?Was the plunger completely depressed? I don’t remember exactly where it was.Was there residue? I don’t remember?Was there more tubing below that IV port? yes.Did that tubing have liquid in it? I do’n’t remember?Did the tubing above it have liquid in it? yes.Was that clear? YesWas the IV bag clear? Yes.Did it have a milky appearance to it? It was clear.


the Y connecter =the CLAMP = IV port where the syringe was injected and the plunger was completely depressed =BOLUS INJECTION

above the clamo the liquide was CLEAR , below was the 13.5 SHORT TUBING with propofol traces.

What that means?.... EXACTLY BOLUS INJECTION BY SOMEONE ELSE.

Re read carefully

It's over for Murray officially
 
Court is over for today , the hearing is set to resume at 9:00 PT/12:00 ET Monday morning.
 
Soundmind;3180868 said:
The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”Did it have liquid in it? Yes.Did you have it finegerprinted? I don’t remember.This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it. Yes. And in the tubing hand an IV in it?half way from the tubing there was a clamp THAT'S THE Y CONNECTOR and that clamp had a syringe in it.The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liqued in the syringe?Was the plunger completely depressed? I don’t remember exactly where it was.Was there residue? I don’t remember?Was there more tubing below that IV port? yes.Did that tubing have liquid in it? I do’n’t remember?Did the tubing above it have liquid in it? yes.Was that clear? YesWas the IV bag clear? Yes.Did it have a milky appearance to it? It was clear.


the Y connecter =the CLAMP = IV port where the syringe was injected and the plunger was completely depressed =BOLUS INJECTION

above the clamo the liquide was CLEAR , below was the 13.5 SHORT TUBING with propofol traces.

What that means?.... EXACTLY BOLUS INJECTION BY SOMEONE ELSE.

Re read carefully

It's over for Murray officially


did i tell u i love you lol. u answered my question perfectly.:cheers:
 
In total, there were 12 bottles of Propofol found and documented in Jackson's room

How many where empty and full?
 
what a depressed plunger?

how am I going to explain that, COMPLETLEY PUSHED ,clear?

The expert said MJ would not have been able to self inject propofol into the port of the IV ( clamp) which was only 13.5 cm from the catheter ( needle) in his leg . SHE SAID THAT. That's why the coroner ruled the death as injection by another.
 
Brian Oxman is such a bastard he lied to Erin from Ustream that he wasn't going around saying MJ is a drug addict! She wanted to confront him! They had him on speaker phone lol so u can hear him saying this! And making up sh*t in the autopsy report that MJ had a swollen brain! o_O

Brian replaced Geraldine Hughes cause she was given out press conferences and the family didn't like it so they told her not to come today! But, ask Brain to come in her place! WHAT THE ???????! O_O
 
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thx for the explanation

is the jury or judge may going to rule murder 2 (when they think it over in the weekend?)
 
What does this mean??????

There a massive buzz according to Erin with Lawyers reviewing case - There is Implied Malice which is EXPLICITLY FOR THE CHARGE OF SECOND DEGREE MURDER. Why DA went to prelim instead of grand jury. According to buzz, this should have been ended by now, reviewed by the D.A. and brought straight to trail. The charges can be upped pretty easily apparently and they can even dismiss and refile to give more time for the new charges...

Malice is possible, but not necessary for a charge of second-degree murder. Second degree murder can be charged for "reckless endangerment and disregard for human life."

Btw, the petition for upping the charges now has over 2500 signatures, and another press-release is going out soon from M.J.A.N.
 
how am I going to explain that, COMPLETLEY PUSHED ,clear?

The expert said MJ would not have been able to self inject propofol into the port of the IV ( clamp) which was only 13.5 cm from the catheter ( needle) in his leg .
Centimeter, or inch?
Kindas trange for an American to use centimeters?


edit: reread the autopsy report...
Indeed, only 13.5 cm.

Well, I guess the defense will argue MJ was extremely flexible then :(
 
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how am I going to explain that, COMPLETLEY PUSHED ,clear?

The expert said MJ would not have been able to self inject propofol into the port of the IV ( clamp) which was only 13.5 cm from the catheter ( needle) in his leg . SHE SAID THAT. That's why the coroner ruled the death as injection by another.
wonderful..Thanks Soundmind....:hug:
 
how am I going to explain that, COMPLETLEY PUSHED ,clear?

The expert said MJ would not have been able to self inject propofol into the port of the IV ( clamp) which was only 13.5 cm from the catheter ( needle) in his leg . SHE SAID THAT. That's why the coroner ruled the death as injection by another.

That is the best phrase so far!!!!
 
A coroner's investigator testified Friday that she found 12 bottles of a powerful anesthetic that contributed to the death of Michael Jackson in the singer's bedroom and closet after he died.

Investigator Elissa Fleak said nine of the bottles were found in a bag labeled "Baby Essentials" in the closet. Other medications and syringes also were discovered during a search of Jackson's rented mansion four days after his death on June 25, 2009, she said.

Fleak was the first investigator to describe in detail the items authorities recovered from Jackson's bedroom.

Her testimony came on the fourth day of a preliminary hearing to determine if there is enough evidence for Dr. Conrad Murray to stand trial for involuntary manslaughter. He has pleaded not guilty.

Fleak said she found a total of six vials of the painkiller lidocaine, as well as other prescription medications and syringes, including two found next to Jackson's bed.

Murray's attorney, J. Michael Flanagan, asked Fleak whether she checked to see how much liquid remained in each of the vials.

"There were so many vials, I don't remember which ones were more full or less full," Fleak said.

Authorities contend Jackson died after Murray gave him a lethal dose of propofol and other sedatives in the bedroom then delayed calling 911 while he collected and bagged medications.

Earlier in the day, a former girlfriend of Murray testified that he had been distracted when he called her on the morning of the singer's death, and she heard commotion in the background.

Witness Sade Anding said she realized at one point that Murray wasn't paying attention to her. She heard coughing and mumbling but didn't recognize the voice as Murray, she said.

"I heard commotion as if the phone was in a pocket or something," Anding said.

The testimony added details to a timeline being developed by prosecutors at a hearing.

Phone records show Murray called Anding at 11:51 a.m. She said she stayed on the line for five to six minutes, but Murray never got back on the phone.

The records indicate 911 was dialed at 12:21 p.m.

Prosecutors also called Murray's current girlfriend, Nicole Alvarez, and asked about shipments the doctor had sent to her apartment from a Las Vegas pharmacy.

Alvarez acknowledged receiving several packages for Murray but said she never looked inside and didn't know the contents.

Authorities have said in court documents they believe Murray was having shipments of propofol and other medications used by Jackson sent to Alvarez.

It's unusual to send propofol to a private residence but not illegal.

The phone records show Murray called Alvarez from the ambulance that transported Jackson to a hospital, but prosecutors did not ask her about the call that lasted two minutes.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2011-01-07-michael-jackson_N.htm
 
Brian Oxman is such a bastard he lied to Erin from Ustream that he wasn't going around saying MJ is a drug addict! She wanted to confront him! They had him on speaker phone lol so u can hear him saying this! And making up sh*t in the autopsy report that MJ had a swollen brain! o_O Brian replaced Geraldine Hughes cause she was given out press conferences and they fam didn't like it so they told her not to come but, ask Brain to come in her place! WHAT THE ???????! O_O
HE is so full of shit..maybe someone should show him the youtube video...idiot
 
how am I going to explain that, COMPLETLEY PUSHED ,clear?

The expert said MJ would not have been able to self inject propofol into the port of the IV ( clamp) which was only 13.5 cm from the catheter ( needle) in his leg . SHE SAID THAT. That's why the coroner ruled the death as injection by another.

this is prob a stupid question but remember its after midnight here lol but i read on here that the clamp can be used to stop and start an infusion of dip through the iv. so the clamp is in the same place as the injection era for the bolus injection. so why is it pretty much impossible to do a bolus on yourself but not an iv overdose?
 
did i tell u i love you lol. u answered my question perfectly.:cheers:
I love you MORE :dont_mention_it:

welcome and Love you all :)
Centimeter, or inch?
Kindas trange for an American to use centimeters?

If it's centimeters, I can understand why it would be hard, if it's inched it's about 34 centimeters, which would make it less difficult to reach

centimeters, re read the expert's statement in the autopsy report 13.5 cm from the tip of the IV catheter 10000000% SURE.
 
Murray cut the IV Bag to put Propfol into it! O_O That's how the bottle was in the IV bag! So he just left a bottle dripping into MJ! SMFH :(
 
Can you explain why this means it's over for Murray and why "by someone else"?

If the IV was in MJ's leg. And there was a 13,5" tube from the Y-connector to the IV in his leg, he could've easily reached the Y connector, I think, and have pushed down the syringe with propofol by himself...

I'm not saying that's what he did, but I'm trying to envision how the scene would have looked, with the tubelengths etc, wouldn't it be possible for the defense to argue MJ could've done it himself?


Michael had so many other medications in him that he would have been physicaly incapable of such an action.
 
did they all tested it for fingerprints??? because if its only murray then he is also screwed right?
 
Brian replaced Geraldine Hughes cause she was given out press conferences and the family didn't like it so they told her not to come today! But, ask Brain to come in her place! WHAT THE ???????! O_O

Well Geraldine Hughes hangs round with Joe, Oxman, Eddie Jones and that group..

Anyway, it's drama that is not necessary really.
 
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