Latest on MJJC

Preliminary Hearing 7/1/11 Day Four. Discussion thread

Murray Lawyer Begins to Paint Defense Strategy

The defense for Dr. Conrad Murray laid the groundwork for their strategy -- that Michael Jackson delivered the fatal shot of Propofol -- during cross-examination of an investigator from L.A. County Coroner's Office.

Murray's lawyer, J. Michael Flanagan, asked Elissa Fleak two questions that alluded to their theory: 1) Was the IV bag fingerprinted? and 2) Was it possible for Jackson to reach the syringes from the bed?

As TMZ first reported, the defense will argue that Jackson became frustrated when he couldn't sleep that day and gave himself the shot of Propofol that eventually killed him.

edited to add: apparently Judge didn't allow these questions and Fleak didn't answer the questions.
 
This is getting very interesting. So the current witness from the coroner's office said (and GET THIS)...they found a saline bag WITH A BOTTLE OF PROPOFOL in it....just like Alberto had said!!! We all said it doesn't make sense....but apparently there indeed was a saline bag hanging with a Propofol bottle IN THE BAG...and it was apparently open. The saline bag was cut open...so why the bottle would be in the bag...only Murray will know. However, what's interesting is that the saline drip that was hanging when they found MJ, was half to 3/4 full. Which means it had probably not been hanging that long. If it was a 1000 ml bag, then that's 250-500 ml....and with MJ's size you don't give a drip with something like 30-50ml per hour...it's in the hundreds...about 150ml/h at least. So that would mean Murray would have needed to change the bag around 3 hours prior or less. Which leads me to think that the other saline bag was the one that had been hanging previously...and when it was empty, Murray just cut it open to put the Propofol bottle in it? No idea why. Beats me.

Now this is another thing that's interesting....Why does Murray have 100ml bottles of Propofol there AT ALL??? That's 1000mg of Propofol!! You CAN NOT use the bottle the next day once it's opened, so why not order multiple 20ml bottles...why 100ml bottles when there is absolutely no way you'd need them. Unless you were intending to sedate someone for hours overnight with Propofol....then it would make sense. Which is exactly my point. That I do not believe Murray gave only 25 mg. And he knows it too.
 
Murray cut the IV Bag to put Propfol into it! O_O That's how the bottle was in the IV bag! So he just left a bottle dripping into MJ! SMFH :sad:
Click to expand...
that wasnt attached to mj.
 
I openly recognize I remain as lost as I was before.
In fact, I have been lost the whole day. I am totaly confused with all this information and my weak brain can't process a thing :mello:

But I see some of you are quite happy about something against Murray and against the theory of MJ applying more propofol, so I will just stop trying to understand for a while to just join the ride and say if that is good, than it's good

what a day :doh: maybe all this night going to bet by 3 am are haven some negative effect on me.

Goodnight, fellows fans!!! See you :hug:

and please let's have a some rest. this is really exhausting, thanks so much to all of you for your insights and updates.
 
ivy said:
Murray Lawyer Begins to Paint Defense Strategy

The defense for Dr. Conrad Murray laid the groundwork for their strategy -- that Michael Jackson delivered the fatal shot of Propofol -- during cross-examination of an investigator from L.A. County Coroner's Office.

Murray's lawyer, J. Michael Flanagan, asked Elissa Fleak two questions that alluded to their theory: 1) Was the IV bag fingerprinted? and 2) Was it possible for Jackson to reach the syringes from the bed?

As TMZ first reported, the defense will argue that Jackson became frustrated when he couldn't sleep that day and gave himself the shot of Propofol that eventually killed him.

edited to add: apparently Judge didn't allow these questions and Fleak didn't answer the questions.
Click to expand...


How would she know the answers to that?
 
PCR said:
I openly recognize I remain as lost as I was before.
In fact, I have been lost the whole day. I am totaly confused with all this information and my weak brain can't process a thing :mello:

But I see some of you are quite happy about something against Murray and against the theory of MJ applying more propofol, so I will just stop trying to understand for a while to just join the ride and say if that is good, than it's good

what a day :doh: maybe all this night going to bet by 3 am are haven some negative effect on me.

Goodnight, fellows fans!!! See you :hug:

and please let's have a some rest. this is really exhausting, thanks so much to all of you for your insights and updates.
Click to expand...

Me to

sleep wel pcr
 
summer said:
This is getting very interesting. So the current witness from the coroner's office said (and GET THIS)...they found a saline bag WITH A BOTTLE OF PROPOFOL in it....just like Alberto had said!!! We all said it doesn't make sense....but apparently there indeed was a saline bag hanging with a Propofol bottle IN THE BAG...and it was apparently open. The saline bag was cut open...so why the bottle would be in the bag...only Murray will know. However, what's interesting is that the saline drip that was hanging when they found MJ, was half to 3/4 full. Which means it had probably not been hanging that long. If it was a 1000 ml bag, then that's 250-500 ml....and with MJ's size you don't give a drip with something like 30-50ml per hour...it's in the hundreds...about 150ml/h at least. So that would mean Murray would have needed to change the bag around 3 hours prior or less. Which leads me to think that the other saline bag was the one that had been hanging previously...and when it was empty, Murray just cut it open to put the Propofol bottle in it? No idea why. Beats me.

Now this is another thing that's interesting....Why does Murray have 100ml bottles of Propofol there AT ALL??? That's 1000mg of Propofol!! You CAN NOT use the bottle the next day once it's opened, so why not order multiple 20ml bottles...why 100ml bottles when there is absolutely no way you'd need them. Unless you were intending to sedate someone for hours overnight with Propofol....then it would make sense. Which is exactly my point. That I do not believe Murray gave only 25 mg. And he knows it too.
Click to expand...

WOW nice post :)
 
Was it possible for Jackson to reach the syringes from the bed?
Click to expand...
that wasnt in the blog an frankly after the blue feet BS tmz pulled im inclined to think that question wasnt asked as its a major thing that other outlets would report about

the judge did allow the questions shesaid she didnt know about the fingerprinting. tmz are lieing to make it sound more juicy

nevermind it was said

justice_4mj
Defense asked questions if whether a 5"9" man could
have reached a the nightstand to the propofol bottle and inject himself.

MJJCommunity
The defence even insinuated that Michael
reached across grabbed the 100mg bottle of propofol grabbed an needle and injected himself

i guess the defence are now looking at contridicting the bolus impossible to inject story seeing as there was no dip in the bag and tubing
 
Last edited:
yeah but i mean they prob would take everything to fingerprints right? every bottle seryns etc.. so the whole michael gave it to himself can be quickly resoflt by the fingerprints right? so why not let someone testyfie to that?
 
Even if he could reach the needle and the propofol he could not give himself that much propfol without passing out. And there was no Propofol in the bag
 
Is the blog already updated with the last part of testimony?

It ends a bit weird, with:
You were on the 25th, and you found quite a few things. Can I have the photographs?
 
ivy said:
Murray Lawyer Begins to Paint Defense Strategy

The defense for Dr. Conrad Murray laid the groundwork for their strategy -- that Michael Jackson delivered the fatal shot of Propofol -- during cross-examination of an investigator from L.A. County Coroner's Office.

Murray's lawyer, J. Michael Flanagan, asked Elissa Fleak two questions that alluded to their theory: 1) Was the IV bag fingerprinted? and 2) Was it possible for Jackson to reach the syringes from the bed?

As TMZ first reported, the defense will argue that Jackson became frustrated when he couldn't sleep that day and gave himself the shot of Propofol that eventually killed him.

edited to add: apparently Judge didn't allow these questions and Fleak didn't answer the questions.
Click to expand...


But they also need to look at what kind of syringes...if MJ woudl have needed to add Propofol two times to get to the amount....there you have it. What I mean is....if there were only 10ml syringes....and the overdose was way beyond 100mg....then it would have been absolutely impossible...unless they try to make someone believe, MJ injected 100mg of Propofol withot passing out and then was still able to get MOREPropofol into the syringe and injected himself the second time (and let's not forget...all this in lss than two minutes...while just having woken up from a sedation...) and only then he went unconsciouss and stopped breathing....Also, I am still waiting for someone to explain to me HOW Michael can inject a massive overdose all by himself....when according to Murray only 25 mg of Propofol was needed to get him unconsciouss when HE was the one injecting Propofol...HOW woudl that even make SENSE or be POSSIBLE??? So as long as Murray sticks to his 25 mg...the "MJ gave himself the overdose" theory won't work....So...which is it Murray? YOu gonna change your story now and admit you gave more and then try to explain how you could leave MJ alone....or you gonna stick to the 25mg and then try to tell us MJ would not be knowcked out by the time he hit 25mg when HE was injecting it?? Which one is it gonna be? Huh? Think long and hard....because either way you are in trouble. :evil:
 
mthalen said:
Centimeter, or inch?
Kindas trange for an American to use centimeters?


edit: reread the autopsy report...
Indeed, only 13.5 cm.

Well, I guess the defense will argue MJ was extremely flexible then :(
Click to expand...

Not in the medical field. You go to an Emergency Room in the and they will re-calculate everything you say into kilograms, celcius etc. People doing intake are usually very happy when Europeans volunteer the info in those measurements anyway.
 
Last edited:
this is prob a stupid question but remember its after midnight here lol but i read on here that the clamp can be used to stop and start an infusion of dip through the iv. so the clamp is in the same place as the injection era for the bolus injection. so why is it pretty much impossible to do a bolus on yourself but not an iv overdose?
Click to expand...

Let just say that there was not even a vial of propofol connected to the long tubing before the clamp , so this question has nothing to do with this case FINALLY


because the distance between the vial and the IV catheter which is injected into the skin is obvioulsy longer than 13.5 cm.
 
Justthefacts said:
Even if he could reach the needle and the propofol he could not give himself that much propfol without passing out. And there was no Propofol in the bag
Click to expand...
If 200mg is only 20ml, how long would it take to inject, does anyone know?
Could you just slam it all down in 1 push?
 
So all of those prescriptions were prescribed by Murray only huh?
 
Listening to UStream and reading 500 things at the same time - has it been posted already that according to UStream they found the bags with everything that Murray was trying to hide in a closet in the room?

(which must be the "cream" he wanted to get out of there)
 
bowen9999 said:
That doesn't mean it wasn't attached earlier. Murray sent at least 15 minutes alone with MJ after the phone call was interrupted... plenty of time to reattach a different bag.
Click to expand...

i presume they tested the bag for traces of dip and there was none as it was all in the bottle and there was no long tubing found with dip in it
 
mthalen said:
If 200mg is only 20ml, how long would it take to inject, does anyone know?
Could you just slam it all down in 1 push?
Click to expand...

Ah, just read in the autopsy report that there were 10cc syringes, so the maximum in 1 go would be 100mg/10ml. The nurse said 60mg would be what she would've used first.

So if anyone would've been able to inject 100mg in 1 go, it would surely be enough to knock someone out, right?


bye ingelief :)
 
elusive moonwalker said:
i presume they tested the bag for traces of dip and there was none as it was all in the bottle and there was no long tubing found with dip in it
Click to expand...
I believe the bottle was empty. Erin has reported that the Propofol was being opened & put directly into the IV bag (hence why the bag was cut open) so that he (Murray) wouldn't have to keep watching him to top it up! If this is true, it's just unbelieveable!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top