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Preliminary Hearing 10/1/11. Day Five. Discussion Thread

Petrarose said:
Well, during the trial they will get the Dr. from Ireland and others who will show Michael did not push in propofol. Then, they will show that Michael could not self-inject. This case needs to go trial for cross examination and expert witnesses testimony, because the defense is becoming totally out of their minds.
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They have no other choice than to try to paint Murray as a great, wonderful doctor as a victim, being bullied by his manipulative, demanding famous patient
 
elusive moonwalker said:
thequote is confusing. whos dr J or do they mean murray. its not hearsay i dont think cause murray claims mj told him. all the pros will do is get thesedrs on the stand to say its B.S i never let mj do it or never gave him diprivan but of course i doubt murray will give any names
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That is right Elusive. Murray can claim this, but once we get cross examination and the prosecution at the beginning will lay a foundation showing what was in the autopsy, that Michael could not self-inject, and present expert testimony. The good thing is that the prosecution knows the defense's strategy so they will lay a good foundation to shatter it from the beginning. Actually, I am positive about the outcome of this case in favor of Michael. We simply have to make sure that the testimony is available to the masses.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
thequote is confusing. whos dr J or do they mean murray. its not hearsay i dont think cause murray claims mj told him. all the pros will do is get thesedrs on the stand to say its B.S i never let mj do it or never gave him diprivan but of course i doubt murray will give any names
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I think that was a typo from Trials and Tribulations. It's supposed to be Murray. It wouldn't be hearsay, would it, cos that was from the interview of the detective with Murray. So that is Murray's account to the detectives.

It's ridiculous and pure fiction by Murray trying to make out that he had to stop Michael from self-administering the propofol many times before.
 
about flumenzil (sp) witness said u cant test for it so thats why it didnt show up in mj
 
CNN In Session

The 20th witness is Orlando Martinez of the L.A.P.D. Martinez was one of the lead investigators of this case.

Martinez testifies that he began trying to contact Murray on 6/25, but was unable to. Martinez was contacted by Murray's attorney on 6/26.

Martinez and Murray's attorney, Michael Pena, made arraignments for Murray to meet Martinez on 6/27 at a hotel in Marina Del Rey.

During their meeting Murray told Martinez that for a little over 2 months he had treated Jackson and assisted him with sleeping nightly.

Murray said he would inject Jackson with 50 milligrams of Propofol...and then a drip infusion to keep him under .

Martinez testifies that Murray told him that 50 milligrams was the most he would give Jackson.

Martinez says Dr. Murray expressed a concern about Jackson developing a dependency on Propofol.

Murray felt MJ developed a dependency on Propofol, so with MJ's permission he decided to wean him off Propofol and use some other agents.

Martinez: Murray said he lowered the amount of propofol that he usually gave MJ, and he introduced midazolam & lorazepam, to help MJ sleep.

Martinez says that Murray told him he began prescribing Jackson with medication at around 2 a.m. on June 25th to help MJ sleep.
 
Martinez: Murray said he lowered the amount of propofol that he usually gave MJ, and he introduced midazolam & lorazepam, to help MJ sleep
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we know thats crap from the previous witness. murray bought all that loraz etc months b4.she was using it months b4
 
going by murray he gives diprivan at 11am an amount that would only put u to sleep for 5 -10 mins then goes to the toliet and comes back and finds mj. well that makes it 11.10 am max not 12pm. maybe he gave it at 11 goes to the toilet and comes back an thats about the time he starts talking on the phone til 12pm when he actually notices something is wrong
 
bluetopez said:
Defense can't say MJ killed himself then at the same time asking other witness if they were ever upstairs and touched anything in the room! That don't make sense and how they gonna expect a jury to buy in to that!?
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Good. It seems to me they are running with 2 main ideas: Michael killed himself or one of the people in the house killed him. They want to see which one will work best with the testimonies.

Murry was missing until the 27, and it seemed he talked to his lawyer and decided they will muddy the waters so that it can be alluded that Michael killed himself. Remember he came out with the Michael begging for the drug at that time. You see this 220 lb man was afraid of the 138lb Michael, so he had to do what Michael wanted him to do.
 
its so wrong in every aspect.

wel lovely people i have to go to bed its 2.17 am here..

hope to see you tomorrow and hope my posts helped some and not hurt some

xx
 
elusive moonwalker said:
going by murray he gives diprivan at 11am an amount that would only put u to sleep for 5 -10 mins then goes to the toliet and comes back and finds mj. well that makes it 11.10 am max not 12pm. maybe he gave it at 11 goes to the toilet and comes back an thats about the time he starts talking on the phone til 12pm when he actually notices something is wrong
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yep compared to the phone calls Murray's timeline is 1 hour off.

so either he's mixed up the times (says it was 11 when it was actually 12) or he was out of the room for 1 hour (indeed gave the propofol around 11 left the room and didn't return till around 12).
 
u know if mj was awake all this time non stop bar 12 mins according to murray u think mj would be fine with murray sat making all these phonecals from 9am approx? if mj couldnt sleep it was beacuse he was never off the phone
 
elusive moonwalker said:
u know if mj was awake all this time non stop bar 12 mins according to murray u think mj would be fine with murray sat making all these phonecals from 9am approx? if mj couldnt sleep it was beacuse he was never off the phone
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or MJ was actually sound sleep all along and that's why Murray easily spent so much time on the phone.

hmm interesting.
 
Petrarose said:
Good. It seems to me they are running with 2 main ideas: Michael killed himself or one of the people in the house killed him. They want to see which one will work best with the testimonies.
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HA! Yea def! But, All it looks like is that they don't even believe their own client! Which they don't really have to cause their just doing there jobs! But, they def don't believe he is innocent!-_- LMAO!
 
ivy said:
CNN In Session

The 20th witness is Orlando Martinez of the L.A.P.D. Martinez was one of the lead investigators of this case.

Martinez testifies that he began trying to contact Murray on 6/25, but was unable to. Martinez was contacted by Murray's attorney on 6/26.

Martinez and Murray's attorney, Michael Pena, made arraignments for Murray to meet Martinez on 6/27 at a hotel in Marina Del Rey.

During their meeting Murray told Martinez that for a little over 2 months he had treated Jackson and assisted him with sleeping nightly.

Murray said he would inject Jackson with 50 milligrams of Propofol...and then a drip infusion to keep him under .

Martinez testifies that Murray told him that 50 milligrams was the most he would give Jackson.

Martinez says Dr. Murray expressed a concern about Jackson developing a dependency on Propofol.

Murray felt MJ developed a dependency on Propofol, so with MJ's permission he decided to wMean him off Propofol and use some other agents.

Martinez: Murray said he lowered the amount of propofol that he usually gave MJ, and he introduced midazolam & lorazepam, to help MJ sleep.

Martinez says that Murray told him he began prescribing Jackson with medication at around 2 a.m. on June 25th to help MJ sleep.
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Among other things he is going to have a big problem with the bolded because I heard the experts say that all you have to do is stop giving the person the propofol. You do not lower doses to "wean" anyone off. Further, how does he justify then giving him something with causes dependency. Murray is not knowledgeable about medicine.

Can someone check to see if there is another Murray who is a doctor. maybe we have the wrong Dr. Murray.
 
Wait a second...


Dr. Murray on how he would help MJ sleep BEFORE the last 3 days...remember he was telling this to the police WHILE his LAWYER was present....

" He would assist Mr. Jackson with 50 milligrams of propofol. An injection to get him to sleep and with an IV drip to keep him under. Initial infusion followed by a drip? objection sustained."

:scratch:


Dr. Murray on how he gave Propofol on June 25th:

"It was simply an injecton to put Mr. J asleep, and then a slow drip to keep him asleep."

:scratch:
"Placing the IV for hydration" Yeah...I bet. :rolleyes:

And WHAT??!!!

"Did he explain why he didn’t move MJ to the floor?

He said he could not move him to the floor by himself."

Where was that punch line drum sound again.....Sheesh!!! And he still was giving Propofol all ALONE...but knew he would not even be able to get his patient to the floor in an emergency. Well, that's why a BACKBOARD was invented you DUMBA**!!!!!! If you know you're too weak to lift your patient...then you SHOULD HAVE HAD A BACKBOARD there in case there was an emergency. A**HOLE!!! :rant: :angry: :banghead: I mean, we all KNOW it's an effing lie that he was not able to get MJ to the floor himself (I mean, hello...I am 5'8" and I'm not the strongest person in the world, but even I would be able to at least DRAG a person of that size to the floor. I mean, COME ON!!!! If you can't lift...DRAG....sheesh!!! What a JOKE!!!!!!!) And like I said...Murray is not doing himself a favor there either because HE was the doctor in there who decided to administer Propofol ALONE....so it would be HIS responsibility to make sure he has everything there for an emergency...and that would include a backboard.

Here.....450 dollars....don't think that would have cost too much for MJ....You could have neatly put everything you need in an emergency in THAT, instead of scattering them all on night tables...and you woudl have had a BACKBOARD.....

853609.jpg


Murray deserves a kick in the private parts...SERIOUSLY!!! SSSHHHHEEEEESSSSSSHHHHHHHHH!!!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 
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Autumn II said:
Whoa! Never heard THAT before!
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It looks like (as far as I can understand from the draft at Trials and Tribulations) as Michael couldn't sleep he says that he will have to cancel the next day (June 25th) rehearsal and that AEG et al. wouldn't like it if he cancels it. Murray in his statement to the detective kinda uses it as the point Michael pressuring him into giving propofol (kinda like "I wasn't giving him propofol but he pressured me into it by complaining about his concert rehearsals").
 
ivy said:
or MJ was actually sound sleep all along and that's why Murray easily spent so much time on the phone.

hmm interesting.
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This seems more possible, so if Murry is saying Michael could not sleep and was begging for P, that could be a lie. An awake Michael would say politely, "With L.O.V.E. can you get off the phone and help me sleep?"
 
ivy said:
It looks like (as far as I can understand from the draft at Trials and Tribulations) as Michael couldn't sleep he says that he will have to cancel the next day (June 25th) rehearsal and that AEG et al. wouldn't like it if he cancels it. Murray in his statement to the detective kinda uses it as the point Michael pressuring him into giving propofol (kinda like "I wasn't giving him propofol but he pressured me into it by complaining about his concert rehearsals").
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Maybe. But the testimony also says SHOWS! So if Michael really said that, there goes Murray's salary out the window! Uh. oh.

"MJ says he has to cancel the rehearsal / shows"
 
Petrarose said:
Good. It seems to me they are running with 2 main ideas: Michael killed himself or one of the people in the house killed him. They want to see which one will work best with the testimonies.
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And we know who that was.
 
Here goes the defense's theory about MJ drinking Propofol....surely Murray would have seen Mj pour the Propofol into a bottle if he was there BEFORE MJ. Also...if he was alone in MJ's room for 10 minutes...gives him enough time to put Propofol in the bottle HIMSELF without MJ knowing....so...eat that FLANAGAN!! -_- (Not saying there was Propofol in any bottles...just saying the defense won't really be able to use even THAT as a defense...HA! :evil:)

"On that day June 25th, did he respond to the Carolwood residence? yes he did. He arrived around 12:50 am.

Who arrived first? according to Dr. M. ? Dr. M.

What did he do upon arrival.
he went to the room where he always treated Mr. J and waited. And that is the room the paramedics testified they found the decedent? Correct."
 
summer said:
Flanagan: "Maybe Mr. Jackson was drinking the Propofol....?" ---------->

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:hysterical:

mjbunny said:
I'm a few pages behind, but I remembered this pic the other day when Kai Chase mentioned that the food she'd left the night of the 24th hadn't been touched. Perhaps Michael had dinner while at Staples instead?

xmwt1yo4h4ju.jpg
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I was thinking the exact same thing. Who knows for sure, of course.

A chest compression with one hand on the back and the other on the chest. Now I've heard absolutely everything. Then he couldn't get Michael to the floor. The excuses just keep rollin' in.

I'm half the size of Murray, and I KNOW I could have gotten Michael to the floor if I had to!
 
Autumn II said:
"MJ says he has to cancel the rehearsal / shows"
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I know that's what Murray says, and he seems to be a pathological liar. But still, who knows ... reading that made me sad. He should have fired Murray and canceled whatever needed to be canceled.
 
The problem for Murray is he has already been caught in so many lies how can you believe a word he says? And something else caught my eye he noticed Michael was not breathing because his chest was not moving up and down. So Michael gave himself propofol and laid back down in the same position he was in you walked out of the room for two minutes? Right
 
summer said:
Here goes the defense's theory about MJ drinking Propofol....surely Murray would have seen Mj pour the Propofol into a bottle if he was there BEFORE MJ. Also...if he was alone in MJ's room for 10 minutes...gives him enough time to put Propofol in the bottle HIMSELF without MJ knowing....so...eat that FLANAGAN!! -_- (Not saying there was Propofol in any bottles...just saying the defense won't really be able to use even THAT as a defense...HA! :evil:)

"On that day June 25th, did he respond to the Carolwood residence? yes he did. He arrived around 12:50 am.

Who arrived first? according to Dr. M. ? Dr. M.

What did he do upon arrival.
he went to the room where he always treated Mr. J and waited. And that is the room the paramedics testified they found the decedent? Correct."
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So Dr. is saying he went to the room first and waited. Now what did he do there before his patient came into the room? He had time to set everything up.
 
Autumn II;3185939 said:
Maybe. But the testimony also says SHOWS! So if Michael really said that, there goes Murray's salary out the window! Uh. oh.

"MJ says he has to cancel the rehearsal / shows"
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It doesn't seem like the whole tour though.

There's this remark in the cross examination

"And that MJ said. It’s 3 days out from my tour. I have to get some sleep."

It seems like every rehearsal MJ missed will delay the tour start by 3 days (or put them behind schedule) and some concerts have to be cancelled.
 
Milka said:
I know that's what Murray says, and he seems to be a pathological liar. But still, who knows ... reading that made me sad. He should have fired Murray and canceled whatever needed to be canceled.
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Yes, Murray lies. But, maybe Michael DID fire him? That night? Murray is known to have anger-management problems (spousal abuse arrest, right?) How would we know that Michael did NOT fire him? We wouldn't. .

Do you see what I'm saying? I don't believe anything Murray says necessarily, but what if Michael felt it was just too much? With those massive sleep problems, maybe he felt the fifty shows were just not do-able at that point?

I'm just going by the testimony here. The witness said, "rehearsal," but also apparently said "SHOWS." Plural. So what if Michael told Murray that, and that he wouldn't be needed anymore? What then?
 
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