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Prelim Hearing-4/1/11 Discussion Thread-All discussion here

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Soundmind said:
Murray was busy removing the IV system and repositioning the PILL bottles near MJ to make it look like an overdose scene. Keep in mind please , Murray's had no intention to admit he gave propofol ( he did not tell the paramedics nor the doctors )and was planning to come back and get rid of the bag full of the liquid drugs he was giving.
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This theory also runs into problems, however.

The IV system had no propofol in it, but the injection, which he left on the floor did. So why hid the IV and not the injection.?

He also left propofol vials on the floor in plain sight of everyone, which kinds of destroys the point in hiding drugs. Why come back and hide everything when he had several minutes to do it before he even called the bodyguards. Why allow the bodyguards to witness any strange behavior on his part.

Repositioning the pills is also a little strange since most the pills near the bed was in Murray's name, especially the Lopz.
 
mthalen said:
Might be, but would you rather see him tried and acquitted of m2, than convicted of IM?
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I am far too emotional right now to even think about Murray getting acquitted for this....if I had my way..Murray would be shot.
 
xthunderx2 said:
there has to be enough evidence here for a murder 2 case....IM...is not enough..
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I agree with you, and I for one don't believe anything Conrad Murray has said about the death of Michael Jackson.
The D.A. by bringing only this minor charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, insures that Conrad Murray never has to reveal the truth about how and why Michael Jackson was murdered.

Even if convicted, two years from now Murray can be sitting on a beach somewhere counting the money he got for killing Michael Jackson.
 
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xthunderx2 said:
there has to be enough evidence here for a murder 2 case....IM...is not enough..
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If you look at some posters where, you can see why it never would had made it to murder 2. If some fans can get fool by the drug addict label and Michael brought this on himself, why would a jury think any differently?
 
CherubimII said:
I agree with you, and I for one don't believe anything Conrad Murray has said about the death of Michael Jackson.
The D.A. by bringing only this weak charge of Involuntary Manslaughter, insures that Conrad Murray never has to reveal the truth about how and why Michael Jackson was killed.


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CherubimII, if Michael was murder purposely, don't you think Murray would had done a better job covering his butt? The man couldn't even clean up the crime scene correctly and the cream story, really?
 
Ramona122003 said:
I still find it odd that the bodyguard maintains that Prince and Paris was upstairs when the family keep saying that only Prince was there, no mention of Paris at all. We also have the chief who maintained until fairly recently that none of the kids went upstairs. I wonder if Kai will be called.

Murray also did a piss poor job cleaning up the crime scene if there was still drugs all over the floor linked to him and he waited so long to call for help. Something still doesn't add up. What was Murray doing the whole time if he left evidences on the floor and the EMTs says that Michael was cool to the touch after Murray supposedly lit the fire place to keep the body warm.
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maybe paris went up there also. im sure we will find out soon but i hope he isnt lying under oath. also the chef didnt go upstairs so she wouldnt know if both were up ther unless she seen them go up. i do remeber the chef saying that her, paris and some others were crying and praying that he would be okay
 
god shakes i learning disablilitty i know what Fucking CPR is :yes: what fake doctor he is :yes:

i'm so angry right know :mat:
 
X_AGNES_X said:
i agreed
i think it's now quite certain that michael was already dead before murry called in other ppl
that's why it's even more ruthless for him to call for the children cuz he KNEW EXACTLY what he was doing.he only cared about covering his own butt,trying to show everyone he was trying "hard" to save him
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true. im not sure if this is true but i read somewhere that he was still attempting to revive mj after the doctors pronounced him dead. is that true????
 
chanel05 said:
maybe paris went up there also. im sure we will find out soon but i hope he isnt lying under oath. also the chef didnt go upstairs so she wouldnt know if both were up ther unless she seen them go up. i do remeber the chef saying that her, paris and some others were crying and praying that he would be okay
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The family also said nothing about Paris being upstairs, but had no problems putting Prince's name in a lawsuit.
 
"But, if he had several minutes in which no one knew Michael was in trouble, why didn't he take it among himself to clear everything up before anyone got there. It doesn't take that long to put on a pair of gloves and picked all the vials up and put them in a safe place. Why call the bodyguard to witness everything if you waited 9 to 22 minutes to call for help. Why even do it when they are trying to do CPR or the BS cream story.From what I can gather, Murray panic so badly that he tried to clean up, but mess up everything. That is the only way to explain half of what happened since he had too much time to get everything together that he didn't seem to use properly."The argument the prosecution are using Murray did not call 911 immediately and wasted precious time trying to save his butt instead of calling 911. I already explanied where that 9 to 20 mintues came from , it's not the delay in asking for "help" it's the delay in calling 911. Amir and Alvarez would not have done anything to help MJ. But MJ arriving at UCLA within 6 minutes of the 911 call could have made a difference, especially when we all know UCLA had a unit to revive the dead .
 
Ingelief said:
for point 2 cpr is not only pomp the heart, you have to give oxydan, and thats more difficult than you thing

i have my cpr and you have to do a chinlift to get oxy in the longs.. also the terms are 30 heart 2 month
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Actually, the new CPR standars de-emphasize the breaths in favor of chest compressions (revised by American Heart Association in 2010): http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/healthcare/New_CPR_guidelines_save_your_breath.html

Either way- it doesn't matter- you can breathe all you want (did he give mouth to mouth?- Was that testified to? You bring up a good point- as those still were the standards in 09, actually)- if you do the chest compressions on a soft surface it's all for naught. I also have my CPR certification (and I am a clinical social worker, NOT a doctor LOL)- and therefore know that the FIRST thing you are taught is to put the victim on a hard surface as otherwise the heart just gets pushed down and is not compressed between the chest bone and the spinal column (which is the whole point).

I hope to see more medical experts during the actual trial- that should leave no doubt about how imcompetent this "Doctor" is.
 
Ramona122003 said:
If you look at some posters where, you can see why it never would had made it to murder 2. If some fans can get fool by the drug addict label and Michael brought this on himself, why would a jury think any differently?
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its to bad that people think that about Michael....that is a label he doesn't deserve..:(
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
No it isn't.
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yes there is a difference. addicted and dependent means something different everywhere outside of this board... anyway you can become dependent on something for everyday functions and not be necessairly addicted to it. mj depended on propofol to sleep not he was addicted to propofol and used it.

this is myy last post about his addiction/dependency subject cause it seems as if people are twisting my words.
 
Ramona122003 said:
CherubimII, if Michael was murder purposely, don't you think Murray would had done a better job covering his butt? The man couldn't even clean up the crime scene correctly and the cream story, really?
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I don't try to make excuses for Murray. I just look at the facts.
The Facts are he supplied and used the weapons of murder
on Michael Jackson, which kind of fits the definition of murderer.
 
Okay from my point of view in the courthouse:

I didn't know that nobody was allowed upstairs besides Michael, the children and Murray... Mohammed was allowed up this time, saw Michael on the bed and he said he knew he was DEAD right there he had his eyes open he was totally gone, Murray very panicedly said did he know CPR... While they were saying this they showed pictures of the room Michael died in, I didn't see them but a lot of the fans who could were crying... Mohammed then realised that Prince was in the door way and he couldn't move, Paris was on the landing outside crying and so he took them down to the nanny, and the nanny put them in the car to follow the ambulance.

We all thanked Mohammed so many times when he came out of the courthouse for being so kind to Michael and the children...

The judge said he wanted to continue but he has a tight schedule so it starts all over again tomorrow morning at 9:30am... And could last for up to two weeks. :(
 
Soundmind said:
"But, if he had several minutes in which no one knew Michael was in trouble, why didn't he take it among himself to clear everything up before anyone got there. It doesn't take that long to put on a pair of gloves and picked all the vials up and put them in a safe place. Why call the bodyguard to witness everything if you waited 9 to 22 minutes to call for help. Why even do it when they are trying to do CPR or the BS cream story.From what I can gather, Murray panic so badly that he tried to clean up, but mess up everything. That is the only way to explain half of what happened since he had too much time to get everything together that he didn't seem to use properly."The argument the prosecution are using Murray did not call 911 immediately and wasted precious time trying to save his butt instead of calling 911. I already explanied where that 9 to 20 mintues came from , it's not the delay in asking for "help" it's the delay in calling 911. Amir and Alvarez would not have done anything to help MJ. But MJ arriving at UCLA within 6 minutes of the 911 call could have made a difference, especially when we all know UCLA had a unit to revive the dead .
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That is not want I meant. Why wait so long to call for help if you trying to clean everything up. If that was not his attempt, why even bother to wast time. I mean, why call 911 so late anyway?

Sorry, but your statement lost me. Could you explain in dumb terms since I appeared to have missed.
 
Soundmind said:
Murray was visiting a clinic to treat insomnia in Houston. So he presented himself as a specialist who could treat MJ's insomnia. But to be realistic , what insomnia specialist would use VERSED of all drugs to treat insomnia? Murray did not blame vesrded usage on MJ, so it was his choice. Tell me now how anyone could say that guy had MJ's best interests at heart? That guy was lying to MJ, lying to everyone.
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i still dont understand why a cardiologist would be intrested in sleep problems. it is enough dealing with cardiovascular issues and it seems he hasnt mastered those, so why take up something else???? muarry just needs to tell the truth and stop wasting the cali taxpayers money
 
Okay from my point of view in the courthouse:

I didn't know that nobody was allowed upstairs besides Michael, the children and Murray... Mohammed was allowed up this time, saw Michael on the bed and he said he knew he was DEAD right there he had his eyes open he was totally gone, Murray very panicedly said did he know CPR... While they were saying this they showed pictures of the room Michael died in, I didn't see them but a lot of the fans who could were crying... Mohammed then realised that Prince was in the door way and he couldn't move, Paris was on the landing outside crying and so he took them down to the nanny, and the nanny put them in the car to follow the ambulance.

We all thanked Mohammed so many times when he came out of the courthouse for being so kind to Michael and the children...

The judge said he wanted to continue but he has a tight schedule so it starts all over again tomorrow morning at 9:30am... And could last for up to two weeks. :sad:
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thanks
 
mc8755 said:
Okay from my point of view in the courthouse:

I didn't know that nobody was allowed upstairs besides Michael, the children and Murray... Mohammed was allowed up this time, saw Michael on the bed and he said he knew he was DEAD right there he had his eyes open he was totally gone, Murray very panicedly said did he know CPR... While they were saying this they showed pictures of the room Michael died in, I didn't see them but a lot of the fans who could were crying... Mohammed then realised that Prince was in the door way and he couldn't move, Paris was on the landing outside crying and so he took them down to the nanny, and the nanny put them in the car to follow the ambulance.

We all thanked Mohammed so many times when he came out of the courthouse for being so kind to Michael and the children...

The judge said he wanted to continue but he has a tight schedule so it starts all over again tomorrow morning at 9:30am... And could last for up to two weeks. :(
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Thank you soo so much mc8755;3173634, you don't know how much your factual insights mean to me/us:better:
 
xthunderx2 said:
If I had my way..Murray would be shot.
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I am seriously surprised nothing has happened to him. I don't condone violence, but in the US it's not that hard to get a gun I assume...

But I think being in prison as the dude that killed MJ will be hell as well, so maybe it's best he lives to stand trial :)
 
Please, if you need to explain something or ask something off topic, can we all utilize our PMs so we can keep this thread with only as much info about the Prelim as possible.

Please.
 
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mc8755 said:
Okay from my point of view in the courthouse:

I didn't know that nobody was allowed upstairs besides Michael, the children and Murray... Mohammed was allowed up this time, saw Michael on the bed and he said he knew he was DEAD right there he had his eyes open he was totally gone, Murray very panicedly said did he know CPR... While they were saying this they showed pictures of the room Michael died in, I didn't see them but a lot of the fans who could were crying... Mohammed then realised that Prince was in the door way and he couldn't move, Paris was on the landing outside crying and so he took them down to the nanny, and the nanny put them in the car to follow the ambulance.

We all thanked Mohammed so many times when he came out of the courthouse for being so kind to Michael and the children...

The judge said he wanted to continue but he has a tight schedule so it starts all over again tomorrow morning at 9:30am... And could last for up to two weeks. :(
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thank you for this....
 
ginvid said:
It should be your last post about it because you were asked to let it drop and stay on topic and you were asked to PM members with personal responses.

Last warning. I am trying to exercise restraint here.


Please, if you need to explain something or ask something off topic, can we all utilize our PMs so we can keep this thread with only as much info about the Prelim as possible.

Please.
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ginvid has asked nicely and with respect. Please show her that same respect and do as she asks. It is by no means too much to ask. Have some consideration for your fellow members in an already hard time.
 
Ingelief said:
strange that kai said in the interview we where downstairs praying crying and holding hands..

now they were both up there

im shocked.. those children saw that.. how can you come over that!
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yea but they could have done that after they went upstairs. im sure what they seen upstairs made them cry and they were still crying after they came down. either way it is very sad to see your dad in that state. :(
 
Murray seemed rather bored through the whole thing...I cannot believe that he would sit there untouched by what he did...he didnt care then and he till doesnt care....I am soo angry.
 
Soundmind said:
Murray was busy removing the IV system and repositioning the PILL bottles near MJ to make it look like an overdose scene. Keep in mind please , Murray's had no intention to admit he gave propofol ( he did not tell the paramedics nor the doctors )and was planning to come back and get rid of the bag full of the liquid drugs he was giving.
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true. im glad he didnt get back to the house because then some of the evidence would be missing. i guess he realized he couldnt make it back to the house and then dipped out.
 
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