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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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marc_vivien said:
* AEG could have made it simple and just said they assumed MJ was being properly cared for by the doctor MJ handpicked.* But AEG has gotten a little too cute, painting a picture that the jury may not be buying.Short story .

TMZ
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Oh. I agree with TMZ. Another weird thing...
 
bouee said:
no, not yet.
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Because I was going through some old interviews and there is one Dileo gave a couple of weeks after Mj died where he said that it was Michael who wanted him back. He also, without being asked, states that AEG did not hire Murray. He also says that Michael rehearsed 10 or 11 songs on the last night which is completely untrue. Mind you, I remember Phillips saying in an interview that he did a full dress rehearsal on the last night. Again, not true.

And another point. The shows weren't truly sold out. There were hundreds of tickets available on viagogo on the day Michael died. They were only sold out in the sense that viagogo had purchased them as a reseller.
 
gerryevans said:
Used it to show if he was going to have to pay it anyway, he knew how to structure a deal where he could get some breathing room. How many other artists could get a promoter to settle a lawsuit, even as an advance. MJ was in a financial bind at this time in general but even at a time of weakness, he was able to get things he wanted. This partnership would have been victorious in ways beyond finances if he had pulled it off that would have meant more than the tangible reward of dollars, which would have made it an equitable partnership in the end for him.
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The Sheik's lawsuit prevented MJ from signing with anyone. He literally could notmake any deals with anyone until he paid off the Sheik. Going to Bahrain was such a disaster. He had made a public annoiuncement of forming the 2 Seas record company with the sheik. When he backed out, the sheik went after him for everything he spent on MJ, hosting him, getting a studio set up, backing out of the deal re recording, etc. The lawsuit was filed in London and was settled just before it went to court. AEG had to solve that barrier or MJ could not have done the tour with them.
 
jamba said:
The Sheik's lawsuit prevented MJ from signing with anyone. He literally could notmake any deals with anyone until he paid off the Sheik. Going to Bahrain was such a disaster. He had made a public annoiuncement of forming the 2 Seas record company with the sheik. When he backed out, the sheik went after him for everything he spent on MJ, hosting him, getting a studio set up, backing out of the deal re recording, etc. The lawsuit was filed in London and was settled just before it went to court. AEG had to solve that barrier or MJ could not have done the tour with them.
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Much thanks for the recap. I still think it shows MJ was astute. MJ had decided getting back on stage was the best recourse for him and he got a promoter to pay a settlement to enable him to do so. AEG certainly did not expect the overwhelming response they got before the concert was announced.
That MJ made that Bahrain settlement as part of the deal before the announcement shows to me he always knew how to do some business finagling, even when he was at a disadvantage.
 
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Sp Phillips has finished testifying (for now, I'm sure he'll be called back when AEG presents their case). I wonder who's gonna be next on Monday?
 
ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts

As promised, response from Jackson's attorney Kevin Boyle regarding MJ's brothers: Response from Kevin Boyle. Also long:

"Mrs Jackson fully supports her children performing wherever they wish to perform, even though many of the world's venues are owned by AEG. Mrs. Jackson is involved in lawsuit where evidence shows that AEG made a mistake in hiring, supervising an unfit doctor for her son. There is no reason the Jackson family needs to ban AEG venues because of AEG's prior mistake, and so the family has not done so. Despite that Jacksons have acted civilly toward AEG in this litigation, AEG has chosen to attack Mrs. Jackson for bringing this suit. AEG has threatened in open Court to bring out "ugly stuff" about Michael. It is unfortunate that AEG cannot act civilly toward Mrs. Jackson and Michael, as other corporations across the country who commit negligence act toward their victims. There is no reason for AEG to go after victims of AEG's mistake. The Jacksons are willing to continue to take high road, even if AEG isn't"
 
Sorry guys, I haven't read the previous pages, been on a bit of a hiatus the past few weeks. Does anyone know what picture it was they used in the court that showed Michael in this way? Was it the one from the costume fitting? Or was it one where he was actually on stage during the rehearsals? Or do we even know at all?
 
This is the June 19 picture they are showing

BMv5TnrCEAAjWH-.jpg
 
Oh, so it is the costume fitting picture. I remember before the movie premiered in theaters that was one of the many pictures of Michael that had surfaced. I can't seem to recall how many people on here worried for him. I think there were a more than a couple.
 
To me he looked like you could see his bones in the front there. Looking at the date gets me emotional. He would be gone a week later.
 
ivy said:
This is the June 19 picture they are showing

BMv5TnrCEAAjWH-.jpg
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Those shoulder pads were supposed to be part of the opening outfit but he couldn't have worn them cos he had to be inside light man. The shoulder pads wouldn't have fit inside.

I like Zaldy and I think he made great outfits for Cirque but I just don't think he was suitable for Michael himself. Making him new shoes was a big no no and think when it came to it Michael would have worn mostly Bush and Thomkins outfits.

Was that picture definately taken June 19th? It would be interesting to know what time of day it was taken because June 19th was when Michael was in a state at rehearsal. He looks fine there apart from his weight. Not the rambling mess that he was supposed to be in that evening.

Edited to say that according to Faye's testimony it was after the costume fitting that he was shivering etc.
 
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StellaJackson said:
Was that picture definately taken June 19th? It would be interesting to know what time of day it was taken because June 19th was when Michael was in a state at rehearsal. He looks fine there apart from his weight. Not the rambling mess that he was supposed to be in that evening.

Edited to say that according to Faye's testimony it was after the costume fitting that he was shivering etc.
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Yeah this was earlier in the day June 19. After costume fitting and when he came to rehearsal he wasn't feeling well and was sent home. Karen said he was okay during the costume fitting.
 
Michael didn't want Zaldy, if I remember hearing correctly. He wanted only Michael Bush but something happened between Bush & AEG and they ended up bringing Zaldy in to design the outfits and basically kept MB around as an consultant. I remember hearing just a month or two ago that Michael really didn't like anything Zaldy was making for him and that was one of the flare up's between Michael himself & AEG, but Michael was such a nice, warm hearted man that he didn't just flat out tell Zaldy his clothes sucked.


Whatever the case may be, I know one thing, thanks to this trial, I'll never be able to watch TII the same again. Michael doesn't look incoherent and "high" like the families lawyer's are painting him out to be there, but he definitely looks a little unhealthy in terms of weight. Michael was always a thin guy, but idk, something about that photo just doesn't sit right with me. However, I do not see the sickly man that the families lawyers are claiming is in the pictures. But apparently the jury did.


That explains it better, Ivy. I just don't know what to think. :(


BTW, thanks for all the work you're doing during this case. I really appreciate reading all the updates you and Qbee are putting up.
 
ivy said:
This is the June 19 picture they are showing

BMv5TnrCEAAjWH-.jpg
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I remember when I first saw this photo and went "EEK! I didn't know a 5'9 could look that way and be 130 lbs." :unsure: If one judge the picture from how he was looking that thin, you'd suggest he was under 110 lbs. :blink:
 
WhoIsIt89 said:
Michael didn't want Zaldy, if I remember hearing correctly. He wanted only Michael Bush but something happened between Bush & AEG and they ended up bringing Zaldy in to design the outfits and basically kept MB around as an consultant. I remember hearing just a month or two ago that Michael really didn't like anything Zaldy was making for him and that was one of the flare up's between Michael himself & AEG, but Michael was such a nice, warm hearted man that he didn't just flat out tell Zaldy his clothes sucked.


Whatever the case may be, I know one thing, thanks to this trial, I'll never be able to watch TII the same again. Michael doesn't look incoherent and "high" like the families lawyer's are painting him out to be there, but he definitely looks a little unhealthy in terms of weight. Michael was always a thin guy, but idk, something about that photo just doesn't sit right with me. However, I do not see the sickly man that the families lawyers are claiming is in the pictures. But apparently the jury did.


That explains it better, Ivy. I just don't know what to think. :(


BTW, thanks for all the work you're doing during this case. I really appreciate reading all the updates you and Qbee are putting up.
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I don't think he looked sickly either but he seemed to have dropped off a lot of weight. :blink: But then again, wasn't he like 110 lbs during the Thriller era? :unsure: He was reportedly 130 lbs at the time of his death...
 
bouee said:
Production cost were 95% for Michael, 5% for AEG, if the concerts happened. If not, production costs were 100% on Michael.

So, if the concerts had happened, AEG would have paid 5% of Murray's salary.
I think Trell said later it was a mistake, Murray should have been 100% on Michael..Another mistake..

Re supervision : it can't be about medical actions, the judge already said that. So it can't be about the choice of medication and how it was given. I THINK supervision could be giving orders to Murray or putting him in a situation that would complicate his job : AEG was supposed to pay for his salary, and Murray was made "responsible for Michael's attendance to rehearsals" , according to an e mail by Timm Wooley. That's how I understand supervision so far.
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I see your point--but did Tim Wooley give that directive to Murray? At the end of the day, Murray had the Hippocratic Oath to honor above all else. So, even if AEG was trying to influence him in a more nefarious way than just making sure he was well enough to attend rehearsals--Murray still had an obligation to "do no harm" to his patient.

ivy said:
As promised, response from Jackson's attorney Kevin Boyle regarding MJ's brothers: Response from Kevin Boyle.
"Mrs Jackson fully supports her children performing wherever they wish to perform, even though many of the world's venues are owned by AEG. Mrs. Jackson is involved in lawsuit where evidence shows that AEG made a mistake in hiring, supervising an unfit doctor for her son. There is no reason the Jackson family needs to ban AEG venues because of AEG's prior mistake, and so the family has not done so. Despite that Jacksons have acted civilly toward AEG in this litigation, AEG has chosen to attack Mrs. Jackson for bringing this suit. AEG has threatened in open Court to bring out "ugly stuff" about Michael. It is unfortunate that AEG cannot act civilly toward Mrs. Jackson and Michael, as other corporations across the country who commit negligence act toward their victims. There is no reason for AEG to go after victims of AEG's mistake. The Jacksons are willing to continue to take high road, even if AEG isn't"
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What an appalling statement by Kevin Boyle. Even though there's a trial going on, you'd think KJ's lawyers would take the high road and not sling mud at AEG at the same time they're justifying family members doing business with them. Strikes me as a tad hypocritical.
 
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I am a little confused. How can you compare a performance done in 2001 or earlier to a rehearsal in 2009? Michael would hold back in rehearsals and give it his all in a performance. The constant talk about 360 spins. I don't think Michael would be doing them the whole concert. I have no dancing experience. He didn't do the moonwalk in Billie Jean in the footage but I knew he could do it.
 
marebear said:
I am a little confused. How can you compare a performance done in 2001 or earlier to a rehearsal in 2009? Michael would hold back in rehearsals and give it his all in a performance. The constant talk about 360 spins. I don't think Michael would be doing them the whole concert. I have no dancing experience. He didn't do the moonwalk in Billie Jean in the footage but I knew he could do it.
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I agree. This was a rehearsal and not a full-out performance. Besides, what does this have to do with the central question of the trial--who hired Murray?
 
according to CNN video they compared TII Billie Jean to 30th anniversary Billie Jean. In 30th anniversary show Michael is doing fast multiple 360 spins at one point. I checked 92 Dangerous Rehearsal video, he's not doing fast multiple spins on that rehearsal either.

92 Rehearsal


TII


30th anniversary

 
Fire marshal cuts public, media seats for Jackson trial


By Jeff Gottlieb
June 14, 2013, 6:25 p.m.
The Los Angeles fire marshal has ordered the number of people in the courtroom where the Michael Jackson wrongful-death suit is being tried be reduced immediately, cutting the number of seats for the media by nearly two-thirds and leaving only one spot available for the public.

That does not mean the news media or the public will be shut out of the trial, which finished its 30th day Friday. Since the early days of the proceedings, a closed-circuit feed has been shown in another courtroom that seats 63 people.

The new rule means that media will alternate days in the courtroom. The Times, for instance, will have a seat on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, but will have to watch the proceedings in the overflow room other days. Other media, including CNN, KTLA-TV (Channel 5), the Associated Press, the New York Post and Agence France Press, are also part of the rotation.

PHOTOS: Jackson-AEG wrongful death case

The number of spectator seats in the courtroom is being reduced from45 to 34.

Before the trial started, Judge Yvette Palazuelos ruled that no cameras would be allowed in the courtroom. CNN's request to broadcast the proceedings was denied.

Mary Hearn, a spokeswoman for the court, said the plaintiffs and defendants each get 12 seats, which can be filled with members of the legal team and guests. Another seven are reserved for the media and the rest for court staff. If the parties to the suit bring fewer people, their seats will be taken by media or the public. There is a daily lottery for the public.

Hearn said that 15 to 20 reporters have been in the courtroom most days.

A small group of Jackson fans have been attending the trial. Michael Jackson's mother, Katherine Jackson, has been in the audience most days, along with her nephew. Janet Jackson attended for half a day.

But if Michael Jackson's children or one of the celebrities on the witness list, such as Prince or Diana Ross, testify, the number of people wanting a look at the trial would probably grow
 
ivy said:
according to CNN video they compared TII Billie Jean to 30th anniversary Billie Jean. In 30th anniversary show Michael is doing fast multiple 360 spins at one point. I checked 92 Dangerous Rehearsal video, he's not doing fast multiple spins on that rehearsal either.

92 Rehearsal


TII


30th anniversary

[video=youtube_share;OU5pKS-roVk]http://youtu.be/OU5pKS-


Looked like shit in that picture they showed. Red flags all day. Common sense win this case. Like the Jackson or not AEG is liable to some degree. IMO
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Mechi said:
Nope not a babysitting company... that babysitter would just get payed.

AEG did buy themselves into Michaels life and he got completely financially dependent on them... completely.
Probably in Gongawares or Philips email vocabulary that would be: "We own his butt!"
What a nice atmosphere to work in.

It's true it certainly doesn't make Michael a five year old who needs babysitting but well it also didn't make him really a completely healthy and happy adult still caring for his three beloved kids! As we know, he is dead.

The question still is who had or had not might a part in it aside from Murray who undoubtfully killed him!
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I don't understand this type of thinking^^ Can you tell me how many workers are not Financially Dependent on their bosses? If I don't get paid I can't live, basically. I am "completely" dependent on One Source of Income for food, shelter, clothing, and all the extras. Michael's is not "completely" dependent on AEG, because he gets part of his money from non-AEG sources, like royalties. Even if you dismiss the non-AEG money, he, just like me, is dependent on who gives him that money. It could be fans buying his music, whatever, but it all hinges on the fact that his money comes from another.

Here Michel was a partner, and he was able to get a huge advance, which based on the type of show TII was going to be, he would have been able to pay back. Even though, I am dependent on who pays me in order to live, they still do not "own my butt," to use your pun. Neither was Michael's "butt owned by AEG."

The part about "not making him happy, healthy, and he is dead," I do not know what you are connecting it to, but Michel's advance had nothing to do with trying to make him happy and healthy. The advance was for buying or paying for good/services. His happiness had to come from other sources and his health is within the body. Certainly the advance had nothing to do with his death.
 
^^

This issue was discussed in court filings. People are kinda financially dependent on their work, to the banks that give them mortgage etc.. for example most people don't have the money to buy a let's say $200,000 house, they go to a bank and get a loan, and then they get a job and with their salaries they pay for the house and the food and so on...

However people also have a choice.. they can leave their jobs, find a new one, sell their houses and go live in an apartment and even go bankrupt..

the same applies to Michael. Yes he might had debts, yes he might have needed TII income to pay his debts but he wasn't (for the lack of a better word) slave to that. He had choices - like every other person. For example he could have cancelled TII and go on tour with Live nation or do movies or he could have sold Sony/ATV catalog, pay all of his debts and could have lived with the royalties he received from his own catalog Mijac or even go bankrupt.

This is why the judge did not agree with the "financially dependent" argument , she believed Michael Jackson - the greatest entertainer - had status and experience and choices.

Furthermore financial relationship does not require a duty of care. For example a bank might give you money for your mortgage / to buy a house but they have no duty to make sure that the house is safe.
 
Michael used to lose weight during rehearsals and concerts but I think Murray gave Ephedrine together with propofol for the bloodpressure.
Some people use ephedrine as a diet pill.
Murray probably didn´t know how much he gave of it.
It might be true that Michael managed to sleep without propofol-and ephedrine- for at least one night in the end and it´s possible that he increased something in weight the last days because he could eat more when ephedrine didn´t make him lose appetite
 
:thinking:






It is a fact, Michael was always thin. (Look for Thriller era for example.....) -_- So if he lost 2 or 4 pounds would make a big difference in his body. (Or not? :fear:) Simple. He was not skeletal. :nono: I do not know why people discuss so much about it... YET. :unsure:
 
What was the photo supposed to prove today? Is it that they saw him thin and did nothing? How many times was Randy supposed to see Michael with only his undershirt on? Sometimes I think Panish uses exhibits for the shock effect, because what does this photo have to do with negligent hiring. Maybe he is trying to say AEG missed the red flags and hired muarry who did this to Michael. However, Panish must know that the coroner was on the stand saying the weight did not kill him, that he was not underweight, and that there were no signs that he was malnourished.
 
^^^^Exactly. I don't get it either--what is that photo suppose to prove? Michael was thin--common for him when performing--and the autopsy says he was "healthy" (or words to that effect) for a 50 year old man. Michael did not die of malnutrition or being underweight. When he showed signs of having the "flu" (which were the likely side effects of taking propofol for 6 weeks) that's when KO et al got involved and expressed concern to Murray (at the 6/20? Carrolwood mtg) and they were reassured that all was just fine. MJ then shows up at rehearsals and does great. If I were a juror, I'd be thinking--AEG responded appropriately at the appropriate time and MJ recovered from whatever was ailing him. No one at AEG could reasonably predict, based on what they knew, what would happen on 6/25.
 
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