Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Big Apple2]

I think BET are the ones who assembled the artists for the event. But the point is AEG are a corporation whose goal is to make money. The Jacksons are family suing them in connection with a family member's death and his alleged mistreatment. So I don't see the comparison. The family should care about working with people they claim are so horrible. So in that respect it's ironic that they don't.

I agree with you 100%, i.e. it's BET who puts the artist rooster together, not AEG.

Aside from that, yesterday I was thinking the MAYBE the brothers are working with AEG because they do NOT agree with this lawsuit. I mean, this will not be the first time the brothers took a different path. Case in point, they all weren't on the same page when it came to Randy Jackson's little letter to the Estate of Michael Jackson. I realize that Jermaine and Tito were, at first, involved, but they soom abandoned ship, to the grave disappointment of Randy, I'm sure.

I don't know, but it does appear that Jackie AND Marlon very been pretty neutral when it comes to certain things. The only hold out, in my opinion, amognst the brothers would be Jermaine, but he wants to be a superstar SO BADLY, that I think he would be willing to work with AEG (or anybody else) in order to achieve his UN-attainable goal.

 

[gerryevans]

If i wanted an idea of what was happening at a particular time and had a choice of reading the unguarded emails sent at that time to trusted business colleagues, or reading very carefully-worded testimony given after hours and hours of coaching from attorneys and with the prospect of saying the 'wrong thing' implying there were any problems with mj pre 25 june, costing a company $billions, i personally would go with the emails to get a better impression of what was really going down, but that's just me.

I agree totally. We get a better impression of their feelings with the emails. But MJ was also that force, too. AEG might have called him names and thought he was creepy, but they were working with an artist who'd been in the business 40 years. Who was a pro on stage and off and knew how to get what he wanted. Both sides engaged to benefit off each other. Which is the goal in any business partnership. MJ even got the Bahrain folks off his back because AEG paid off that lawsuit. He wanted his personal physician. He got his personal physician. He wanted to give the audience a show they'd never seen before. He was getting that accomplished too.

Both sides may have made unflattering and nasty private comments (which those emails were and would have remained private if not for the suit). We don't know what MJ was saying. And some of what we do know he was saying is a contradiction, like he went to bed doing 10 shows, and woke up to do 50, giving the "impression" he never intended to do more than 10. When there is a signed contract that it was always planned for him to do at least 31. So both sides had a public face.

But one face I have no doubt AEG saw, was the one where Michael stood his ground. That ground may have been shaky for him at times, and understandably so considering what he had gone through and had at stake, and Randy Phillips is indeed disingenuous, but MJ was that very smart, sophisticated artist Randy described, much more so than how he is generally being depicted in this trial.

 

[Big Apple2]

If Keya Morgan testifies then it will be very damning for Randy Phillips.

Who the heck is "Keya Morgan?" For me, that's a new name in the mix.

Another question: Are either Leonard Rowe or Brian Oxman on any of the respective witness list.

I'm asking because they have BOTH called Michael a "raging drug addict" in television interviews. And as I recall, 2-seconds after MJ died, Oxman was screaming into the television camera that "WE knew this was going to happen."

I'm not sure who he was talking about when he used the word "WE," but it did become his tag line for a few days after Michael's death. Anyway, I was just wondering.

 

[Big Apple2]

MJ even got the Bahrain folks off his back because AEG paid off that lawsuit.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty neat, the way THE FORCE got AEG to take care of that judgement.

In my opinion, there are NOT many, if any, artist who can pull that off.

Not many "5-year olds" could have pulled that off. LOL!

 

[8701girl]

yesterday I was thinking the MAYBE the brothers are working with AEG because they do NOT agree with this lawsuit.

But heres the thing isnt the majority of the siblings saying that aeg are to blame for michael's death? if so them working with aeg just makes them look ridiclous imo

 

[8701girl]

I thought the O2 video showed that Michael didn't use a golf cart.....?

yeh im sure i saw mj in a golf cart and i think ( not 100% sure) tohme was sitting next to him. Im sure i saw that footage on the this is it dvd on the bouns freatures part

 

[myosotis]

yeh im sure i saw mj in a golf cart and i think ( not 100% sure) tohme was sitting next to him. Im sure i saw that footage on the this is it dvd on the bouns freatures part

Ah thank you. I haven't watched the DVD....Only the cinema version. Couldn't bear to watch it at home, so it's in a cupboard waiting for better days....

 

[ivy]

Who the heck is "Keya Morgan?" For me, that's a new name in the mix.

Keya Morgan is a memorabilia dealer that Michael used to buy Marilyn Monroe stuff. Keya on twitter say he was friends with Michael - not everyone believes it (at least not as close as he wants to potray it). He's Pro-Jackson and supporting them in this trial as he's also close with other Jackson family members.

He tweeted on May 4 that he saw Phillips and Tohme at Polo Lounge and it seems like he talked to Jackson lawyers and said Phillips said negative stuff about Katherine Jackson and Michael.

May 4 tweet

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 4 May
WOW! Randy Phillips of AEG and Dr. Tohme Tohme are seated right next to me at beverly hills hotel.

His tweets in the last 3 days

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 11 Jun
Ha!! Randy Phillips admitted in court he met Tohme at Beverly Hills hotel, but can't remember what spoke about. I was there & heard them

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 11 Jun
The only reason Randy Phillips admitted he met with Dr. Tohme is because I busted them & tweeted about. Plus I have proof : ))

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 18h
So many people ask, so yes I heard Randy Phillips talking to Tohme. All about the trial. I met Tohme with MJ years before.

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 15h
I just found out that my tweet about Phillips & Tohme was used in court today in the Jackson case & plus a lot more.

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 14h
God does everything for a reason! I know Tohme & Phillips siting next to me talking about #MJ was planed by the big boss above.

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 14h
The stuff Randy Phillips & Tohme Tohme said in front of me about Michael Jackson & Katherine Jackson made me sick. I could not eat my lunch.

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 14h
You are going to hear a LOT more details soon. I will not tweet details until after I testify, but I have nothing to hide

why ?

Phillips was asked if he called Katherine "B", he said no. If Keya Morgan is allowed to testify (he's a late witness and there will probably be hearsay objections), he could be used to impeach Phillips - meaning question his credibility and demonstrate he might be lying.

As to the who hired Murray negligently or not, it's totally irrelevant .

I thought the O2 video showed that Michael didn't use a golf cart.....?

Phillips on the front seat, Michael with Tohme, Alvarez walking beside Michael and Lester is behind the cart.

 

[8701girl]

Ah thank you. I haven't watched the DVD....Only the cinema version. Couldn't bear to watch it at home, so it's in a cupboard waiting for better days.... :sad:

Yw

i watched the dvd a few weeks ago and i remembered seeing that footage when i saw your post.

hillips on the front seat, Michael with Tohme, Alvarez walking beside Michael and Lester is behind the cart

Lester"? u mean mark lester?

 

[ivy]

yes Mark Lester is walking behind the cart, you can see him at the above picture. Phillips also testified that he was there and he was.

 

[8701girl]

yes Mark Lester is walking behind the cart, you can see him at the above picture. Phillips also testified that he was there and he was.

Ahh yes now i see that lying lil toad rad lester


i didnt see the pic before cuz it didnt show but now it does

 

[Big Apple2]

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 14h
The stuff Randy Phillips & Tohme Tohme said in front of me about Michael Jackson & Katherine Jackson made me sick. I could not eat my lunch.

Oh now, that's interesting!

Dr. Tohme-Tohme, the man Jermaine Jacksun brought into Michael's life, had something nasty to say about Ms. Katherine. WOW, little by little more will be revealed about the MYSTERY MAN named Doctor Tohme-Tohme. Jermaine might have to go into hiding if that happens.

Saying "stuff" about Mother? What could that be, I wonder. I mean, Randy Phillips was at that meeting in Beverly Hills with Joe Jackson, Leonard Rowe, AND Ms. Katherine, could it be about that, I wonder. Or was Mr. Phillips repeating things that Michael "MAY" have said about his mother, with Mr. Phillips adding his OWN commentary. I don't know, could be, but I guess we shall see.

One thing is for sure, I HOPE the content of the Beverly Hills meeting is revealed during this trial. I would honestly like to know HOW MUCH PRESSURE Michael's parents were putting on him on that particular day in order for MJ to agree to perform in a reunion concert with his brothers and sisters.

 

[Petrarose]

So that is why Panish asked Phillips if he called Katherine the B word and he said no.

Big Apple this happened in May, so I wonder why Panish did not bring this up on direct on the first few days. Phillips is going to deny everything that guy said. Then the guy claims that he thinks the big boss, I guess he means God, planned this. In these tweets at one point he makes it seem that he was in the place and overheard them, then in the next he makes it seem as though they said these things in front of him, like he was sitting across from them at the table.

Now let me see, it is very likely that if you are being sued you are going to call the people on the opposite side some nasty names. Given Randy's personality I would think that he would do that anyway, but most people would do something like that. I wonder why Philips would go to a public place to voice his opinions. Didn't he learn yet that he should be careful about what he writes and says in an open forum, since he already knew that e-mails were in the case? Is Phillips that stupid? Let's see if Panish brings up more tweets.

 

[gerryevans]

Keya Morgan is a memorabilia dealer that Michael used to buy Marilyn Monroe stuff. Keya on twitter say he was friends with Michael - not everyone believes it (at least not as close as he wants to potray it). He's Pro-Jackson and supporting them in this trial as he's also close with other Jackson family members.

He tweeted on May 4 that he saw Phillips and Tohme at Polo Lounge and it seems like he talked to Jackson lawyers and said Phillips said negative stuff about Katherine Jackson and Michael.

The thing is this isn't a defamation lawsuit. It's a wrongfuil death suit with negligent hiring as the base for it. Unless, Keya can speak to it, I agree he is totally irrelevant.

 

[Big Apple2]

@Petrose:

Classic case of "He Said-She Said," in my opinion.

Cross-examination will be like TRUTH serum for Mr. Morgan.

First he says that he was friends with Michael. Hopefully he can prove that, because after Michael died EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOMMA claimed to be bossom buddies with him. LOL!

Secondly, he's Pro-Jacksons. Which means everything he says will be questioned as to truth or emblished.

Thirdly, he "claims" to be friends with some Jackson family members. That alone "could" hurt his credibility, in my opinion.

And the biggest question I have is what in the world could Tohme-Tohme have to say that would be bad about Ms. Katherine? I mean, did he know her or is he just repeating what he heard OTHERS say about her? Mr. Phillips saying something about her is one thing, since they were all in that Beverly Hills meeting together, but Thome-Thome wasn't there. I don't remember seeing him there. So what the heck does he know from anything?

Where's Jermaine, maybe he knows.

 

[virginia_woolf]

Exactly. Those alleged comments about Katherine are as relevant as comments about Presley filing for divorce. I don't get how the judge is allowing the attorneys to waste so much time.

 

[Petrarose]

The thing is this isn't a defamation lawsuit. It's a wrongfuil death suit with negligent hiring as the base for it. Unless, Keya can speak to it, I agree he is totally irrelevant.

I agree^^. That is why lately the impact of negative e-mails has lost it's sting for me. Right now I do not care if Randy, Treel, Freak, etc., has nasty personalities, because I was never fans of theirs and did not know they existed. My focus now is give me some information about hiring. By now the jury knows that these men bad mouth most people they deal with.

Virginia this judge is allowing everything, even the kitchen sink. There is an overkill of who is a "nasty boy" sort of like that song where they sing "nasty girls." She kept all the evidence after she tossed out most of the claims. Does this makes sense? Why would you keep one allegation, and then allow the parties to bring in information they were going to use if ALL allegations were still in place? It is this that made the trial so long. It seems the judge wanted to bring in as much trash about all parties in this case including witnesses and Michael. Then, re-cross is when you bring in some good piece of questioning to punch out or attack what the witness said, so you can score some point for your case. So what exactly did the tweet information do for Panish case? Did it help show that Randy is a horrible person--well didn't we already learn that from his tone and words in a million e-mails. As I said before, this is too much overkill of an issue that has nothing to do with negligent hiring.

 

[soulmum]

^ I guess it means that if they can prove Phillips lied on the stand the jury could discount everything he had to say! ie:- was Murray hired by AEG. Could make a difference in many ways in my humble opinion.

 

[serendipity]

Serendipity, if that is the way you feel, that is the way you feel. However, AEG is the promoter and producer as they were with Michael for TII. They are allowed to approve of the artist listing as it is their money at risk. BET is not allowed to have artists on the bill AEG did not approve of.

But why would AEG not approve? If money are coming their way that's what they are supposed to do. They aren't the ones accusing the Jacksons of hurting/mistreating a loved one. It ain't like this is the first time this family's business associations make you go WTF? We're going round in circles here, so we should just agree to disagree.

If i wanted an idea of what was happening at a particular time and had a choice of reading the unguarded emails sent at that time to trusted business colleagues, or reading very carefully-worded testimony given after hours and hours of coaching from attorneys and with the prospect of saying the 'wrong thing' implying there were any problems with mj pre 25 june, costing a company $billions, i personally would go with the emails to get a better impression of what was really going down, but that's just me.

I don't see it as black and white as this. For example I saw MJ at the press conference with my own eyes and he just doesn't appear to be drunk. And that shows me that this part of Randy's email is either greatly exaggerated or untrue. I figured even before he testified that things were very hectic that day and he was very likely freaking out and is quite possible to misrepresent things in such a moment. Gongaware also said he didn't think MJ was drunk. So it just shows me not everything in those emails is the holy Bible and the truth is probably somewhere in between. We just have to use our own minds to try and piece all the pieces together.

I agree with you 100%, i.e. it's BET who puts the artist rooster together, not AEG.

Aside from that, yesterday I was thinking the MAYBE the brothers are working with AEG because they do NOT agree with this lawsuit. I mean, this will not be the first time the brothers took a different path. Case in point, they all weren't on the same page when it came to Randy Jackson's little letter to the Estate of Michael Jackson. I realize that Jermaine and Tito were, at first, involved, but they soom abandoned ship, to the grave disappointment of Randy, I'm sure.

I don't know, but it does appear that Jackie AND Marlon very been pretty neutral when it comes to certain things. The only hold out, in my opinion, amognst the brothers would be Jermaine, but he wants to be a superstar SO BADLY, that I think he would be willing to work with AEG (or anybody else) in order to achieve his UN-attainable goal.

I actually thought about this too. It is possible that, with the exception of Jermaine, the other siblings may not care for this lawsuit. I guess we'll see when they get on that witness stand.

Oh now, that's interesting!

Dr. Tohme-Tohme, the man Jermaine Jacksun brought into Michael's life, had something nasty to say about Ms. Katherine. WOW, little by little more will be revealed about the MYSTERY MAN named Doctor Tohme-Tohme. Jermaine might have to go into hiding if that happens.

Saying "stuff" about Mother? What could that be, I wonder. I mean, Randy Phillips was at that meeting in Beverly Hills with Joe Jackson, Leonard Rowe, AND Ms. Katherine, could it be about that, I wonder. Or was Mr. Phillips repeating things that Michael "MAY" have said about his mother, with Mr. Phillips adding his OWN commentary. I don't know, could be, but I guess we shall see.

One thing is for sure, I HOPE the content of the Beverly Hills meeting is revealed during this trial. I would honestly like to know HOW MUCH PRESSURE Michael's parents were putting on him on that particular day in order for MJ to agree to perform in a reunion concert with his brothers and sisters.

I've been thinking about this meeting with Mother, Joe and Leonard Rowe and how Panish curiously didn't bring it up with Phillips (or at all so far). I wonder why? :innocent: Ivy, can you tell me if the defense is only allowed to address on cross things that were asked on direct? Meaning they can't bring up this meeting now if Panish didn't bring it up on direct? If so, that would mean we'll be likely hearing from Phillips again when the defense starts presenting their case.

Also about this Keya person - was that the same meeting where Putnam was also present? And was this Keya character sitting with them or just overheard things?

 

[ivy]

^ I guess it means that if they can prove Phillips lied on the stand the jury could discount everything he had to say! ie:- was Murray hired by AEG. Could make a difference in many ways in my humble opinion.

that's the thing with impeachment. lawyers try to show that the person has lied to make the juror question their credibility so the only purpose of putting Keya Morgan on the stand - if the judge allows it- would be to show that Phillips is lying. However what the jury think will depend on if they believe Keya or not.

Also let me remind you about jury instructions quoting Judge Pastor

- Pastor says they can find the witness testimony truthful or not – in full or in partial.
- Pastor says people can forget or make mistakes and 2 people can witness the same thing but remember it differently.

Telling witnesses that they can find a witness testimony truthful or not in full or in partial is a standard jury instructions. So for example even though the jurors might be convinced that Phillips lied about calling Katherine names, it doesn't automatically mean they would think he lied about everything else. They can choose believe / not believe parts of testimony.

 

[Big Apple2]

I've been thinking about this meeting with Mother, Joe and Leonard Rowe and how Panish curiously didn't brought it up with Phillips (or at all so far). I wonder why?

If that meeting had been about Michael's well-being and/or any health issues, Mr. Panish would have brought it up on day one.

I have always believed that meeting was so that Joe Jackson and Leonard Rowe would be allowed to be part of those O2 dates, or the AllGood Entertainment project, OR BOTH, but it had nothing to do with Michael's well-being, that's for sure.

Oh and the only reason Mother was there (which I found odd at the time) was so she could SUPPORT the actions of her husband and his friend, in my opinion. We all know by now that if you throw Ms. Katherine into the mix, Michael MIGHT listen.

 

[AliCat]

At least it has been clarified that Michael Jackson could not have performed the "This Is It," Shows without settling his lawsuit with the Prince of Bahrain. So it was settled for $3 million. The Prince of Bahrain was suing Michael for around $8 million.

Michael received an advance for $5 million, $3 million to settle the lawsuit and then Michael Jackson used $2 million for living expenses.

Randy Phillips did testify that Michael Jackson and Thome Thome were not on speaking terms over the Julienne's Auctions. Michael really was upset that Thome Thome did pay the $2 million to the auction house without Michael's consent. It also shows how determined Michael was about tightening his financial belt and paying off his rather large debt. How sad that Michael was reduced to tears over not being able to buy a home after all the money he had made in his life. I am also glad that Randy Phillips admitted his patience was short. The detail over the armband was critical for Michael, as that was a part of his performance!

 

[Big Apple2]

How sad that Michael was reduced to tears over not being able to buy a home after all the money he had made in his life.

Yes, I was thinking about that as well.

Not only could he not afford to buy a home, at that time, but he had that beautiful property called Neverland, which he vowed never to live in again. That too is very sad, in my opinion.

Another thing I was thinking about after Mr. Phillips recent testimony, is that with the Jackson family being so large and extensive, Michael chose to live with friends instead of family, during his times of turmoil. He stayed with that family in New Jersey, which must have been cramped for he and his 3-children, instead of going to his Mother's crib in Encino.

 

[serendipity]

^ I guess it means that if they can prove Phillips lied on the stand the jury could discount everything he had to say! ie:- was Murray hired by AEG. Could make a difference in many ways in my humble opinion.

I don't know, but unless this person taped the conversation (which would be illegal, no?) it's going to be a "he said, she said" type of thing. And when it's shown that he is a family friend, it's going to be a one big waste of time IMO.

 

[Big Apple2]

I don't know, but unless this person taped the conversation (which would be illegal, no?) it's going to be a "he said, she said" type of thing. And when it's shown that he is a family friend, it's going to be a one big waste of time IMO.

Totally agree!

It would also be interesting to see what his emails say BEFORE & AFTER the tweets that have been posted thus far.

Just like the so-called "Smoking Gun" emails, once you see the whole thing and not just selected parts, you can possibly get a better picture of Mr. Morgan's tweeting history.

Also, and this is just ME, but I'm not sure how a jury is going to respond to a person who ADMITS in open court that he was sitting at one table, basically eavesdropping on 2 diners at another table.

Aside from all of that, I'd like to know what Tohme-Tohme said about Mother. Not necessarily for the case, I'm just being nosy. LOL!

 

[Bonnie Blue]

I agree totally. We get a better impression of their feelings with the emails. But MJ was also that force, too. AEG might have called him names and thought he was creepy, but they were working with an artist who'd been in the business 40 years. Who was a pro on stage and off and knew how to get what he wanted. Both sides engaged to benefit off each other. Which is the goal in any business partnership. MJ even got the Bahrain folks off his back because AEG paid off that lawsuit.

I'm not sure why you would use this lawsuit as an example of mj being a force, for me it proves the exact opposite - mj's position of weakness in 08. Aeg didn't pay off the lawsuit - they just advanced mj the $3m to pay it as mj didn't seem to have the cash to do it himself. The bahrain sheik sued mj in autumn 08, before any mj/aeg deal and took mj to court. The sheik seemed to have a pretty poor case and no written executed contract with mj and just before mj was due to give evidence, Tohme apparently negotiated a last minute settlement. The money due to the sheik in settlement, $3m, was actually part of the mj/aeg deal which was signed months later. So mj couldn't pay this lawsuit without signing up to the tii tour with aeg - it doesn't suggest to me that mj was entering into this deal with aeg from any position of strength at all.

Together with the fact that mj's personal manager seemed to have been paid by an aeg advance which for me at least causes a conflict of interest and that mj's entire living expenses were paid by these aeg advances, and the fact that just before the tii begins mj doesn't seem to have any manager, business manager, lawyer or anyone solely looking out for his interests, no i certainly don't see this as a particularly equal partnership at all, or one with mj being in the driving seat. And i'm sure from what can be deduced about phillips' character from these emails, that he wouldn't by shy to bring up this financial vulnerability in his dealings with mj.

 

[Big Apple2]

Keya Morgan ?@KeyaMorgan 14h
The stuff Randy Phillips & Tohme Tohme said in front of me about Michael Jackson & Katherine Jackson made me sick. I could not eat my lunch.

Kind of interesting the way Mr. Morgan says: "The stuff Randy Phillips & Tohme Tohme said IN FRONT OF ME."

I don't know, but to me, it reads like they were ALL TOGETHER AT ONE TABLE, instead of the parties in question being at 2 different tables. No biggie, just seemed a little strange to me.

 

[StellaJackson]

and totally irrelevant to the main issue of if Murray was hired negligently by AEG

Well no not really because it is about showing that the people involved, as in Phillips etc, had little respect for Mj, which supports the theory that they negligently allowed Murray to do whatever was necessary to get Michael to perform and hired him in the first place to do so. They have painted AEG in a very bad light so far which ultimately helps their case. So it is very relevant.


I'm surprised they showed Billie Jean from TII to try and prove Mj was healthy when it is not a factual representation of that particular rehearsal ie dubbed vocals drom the demo.

 

[StellaJackson]

I thought the O2 video showed that Michael didn't use a golf cart.....?

He did use a golf cart. There is video of it in one of the extras on the DVD. He walked past the first one and got into one in front.

 

[Big Apple2]

Well no not really because it is about showing that the people involved, as in Phillips etc, had little respect for Mj, which supports the theory that they negligently allowed Murray to do whatever was necessary to get Michael to perform and hired him in the first place to do so. They have painted AEG in a very bad light so far which ultimately helps their case. So it is very relevant.

Sorry, but in my opinion, your theory is a bit flawed.

I mean they negligently allowed Murray to do WHATEVER was necessary to get Michael to perform, according to you. Even to the point of allowing Murray to shot Michael full of Propofol, in direct violation as to what propofol is supposed to be used for. So in essence they put their star in danger in order for him to perform.

Sorry but that makes no sense, in my opinion.

Thus far, TO ME, it appears that folks were trying to figure out what was going on and got a little push back when the murderer Murray told them to mind their own business, and The Artist said "I know you're worried, but I'm fine." Kind of hard to push through when a 50-year old man tells you "he's fine."

All just my opinion, nothing more.