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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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soulmum said:
I believe Joe Vogel said 'all artists'.
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Yes he did when he is talking about the overall abuse: should remind that the struggle for fair and humane treatment -- for black artists and all artists -- against corporate abuse continues

He is right about that part the abuse continues, but not only for artists but for ANY worker who has a NASTY manager. We could find abuses in all industries, including hospitals, it is just that the nature of the abuse may vary, but abuse is abuse.
 
soulmum said:
I believe Joe Vogel said 'all artists'.
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I'd love to be in the "struggle" like Alicia Keys, Beyonce, and/or Rhianna. LOL!

ETA: Shoot, I'll take a bit of that Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, and/or Madonna struggle also. Doesn't matter where it comes from, I'm down with it.
 
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Petrarose said:
He is right about that part the abuse continues, but not only for artists but for ANY worker who has a NASTY manager. We could find abuses in all industries, including hospitals, it is just that the nature of the abuse may vary, but abuse is abuse.
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True dat!

But I "guess" Mr. Vogel is only interested in the struggles suffered by the 1percenters.
 
Big Apple2 said:
Nah, I don't think Ms. Faye knew about the emails.

In my opinion, those emails ONLY came to light when they were handed over to Mother's side. If I recall, Mr. Panish even admitted that THEIR evidence came from the discovery they received from AEG. Which leads me to believe that's all Mother's side has, and that's a bunch of emails from the OTHER side, and NOTHING more.

I don't know about anybody else, but I expected Mother's side to have a lot more than that. It's like they brought this case with NO evidence, hoping for some sort of settlement at the start and when that didn't happen, they started checking those emails looking for something to base their case on.
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Yeah I was thinking that before, that they brought the case with no evidence and was waiting for something from AEG. However, now that I see they only have the e-mails, I am wondering if they are that stupid to take a case with initially no evidence or no hint that the other side has something we can use and we could get it. It is a big gamble to file a case with nothing to back you up. Unless the scare would cause a settlement? We know they did try 2 times, and leaked the emails to blackmail AEG to settle.
 
When you have to use race to make a point that has nothing to do with race your point becomes pointless
 
Petrarose said:
Yeah I was thinking that before, that they brought the case with no evidence and was waiting for something from AEG. However, now that I see they only have the e-mails, I am wondering if they are that stupid to take a case with initially no evidence or no hint that the other side has something we can use and we could get it. It is a big gamble to file a case with nothing to back you up. Unless the scare would cause a settlement? We know they did try 2 times, and leaked the emails to blackmail AEG to settle.
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In my opinion, you summed it up very neatly.

Especially with them going forward with their SECOND request for a settlement. I must admit, that shocked me.

When this case started, I was "thinking" that Mr. Panish was going to pull out a receipt and/or a cancelled check from the bank wherein they had advanced Murray some cash to hold him down, until the contract was fully executed.

I have to laugh now, but when they started using words like "Smoking Gun," I figured it would have something to do with AEG fronting Murray some money. Now THAT, in my opinion, "could" have been a Smoking Gun - sort of.
 
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Big Apple2 said:
True dat!

But I "guess" Mr. Vogel is only interested in the struggles suffered by the 1percenters.
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Hey I feel I am abused. I get paid by billing Medicaid. Didn't the government go and reduce the rate I could charge per hour because they claim the US have no money. I feel abused, that I worked hard in school, got appropriate degrees so that I could have the lifestyle I want, and then the government waste the money on you know what, and they don't fix the budget by lowering their salaries, but they take it from people like me who have to bill. They know people like me work on their own and have no union. I feel just as angry as any artist would feel when the record company take more out of their record sales, or if they have to pay production costs, etc. Hey I rather the government send out e-mails about people like me rather than interfering with my money. End of Rant!!
 
santabarbara4mj said:
I agree with you. Although he was not contractually obligated to rehearse, at a certain point (when dancers knew their steps) he would typically participate in rehearsals. Michael's famous "that's why we rehearse" line in TII says it all. He was an artist and a perfectionist and Paul G, KO et al all knew him well enough to know his habits over many years and many tours. That he was not showing up when they expected him to was a departure from his normal procedure, so of course, they were worried. It's reasonable.
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I only watched TII once, but it's in my head that Kenny was the one to say 'that's why we have rehearsals' - am I wrong?
 
LastTear said:
I only watched TII once, but it's in my head that Kenny was the one to say 'that's why we have rehearsals' - am I wrong?
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Michael said it about 2 times. Maybe Kenny said it too, but I can't remember. Oh Michel was so adorable in TII--brings back good memories.
 
Petrarose said:
Michael said it about 2 times. Maybe Kenny said it too, but I can't remember. Oh Michel was so adorable in TII--brings back good memories.
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Does it? I just find it sad, I cried all the way through, hence why I only watched it once. But I totally agree Michael is always adorable.
 
LastTear said:
Does it? I just find it sad, I cried all the way through, hence why I only watched it once. But I totally agree Michael is always adorable.
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Ahhhh you cried. You know that is something strange I find about myself. I am able to cast out outside impressions & ideas surrounding something and just look at it for what it is. So, when I look at TII, I dismiss the death, and all negative distractions and simply look at Michael getting ready for a show, and I enjoyed it. The only time I got sad was at the end when he arches his back and throws head backward--that part really tells me it is the end.
 
qbee said:
I certainly do not support Randy Phillips actions nor can I make excuses for them. His emails are despicable whether they were exaggerated or not. Please don't defend that or his actions of laying any hands on Michael :( No matter what that was not necessary, appropriate or right. The fact he described it as a slap is very concerning regardless. There is no cause to defend RP just because you may have issues with the Jackson's. (What he did on that day is not even relevant to this case anyway) But These emails as well as his actions are now the cause of portraying AEG as well as Michael in a very bad light and make it near impossible to know the truth of what actually happened. All because he had to be an asshole when emailing about MJ and the events that unfolded that day. Even with further testimony MJ is still going to be portrayed as drunk and incoherent that day. Does the world or we really need to know all that. (for why?)

I don't support the Jackson family either and their attorney's for bringing in these emails and prior testimony allowing MJ to be falsely portrayed as a washed up blubbering,incoherent, incapable drunk, drug addict who was also slapped spanked or whatever by RP. These things have nothing to do with the claim they have against AEG. They make it appear like MJ was always in this condition to try and prove what ? I don't know? These are isolated incidents, but that is all you will see brought in from Jackson's attorney's because showing Michael in any good or capable light won't help the Jacksons win their case I guess. I don't want to see them profit for throwing MJ under the bus as they are doing.

I still don't see any evidence to prove the claim that AEG was responsible for hiring Dr. Murray, who is the one responsible for killing him. But I'm not supporting or defending any wrong actions by AEG either just because I have issues with the Jackson family as well. It makes me cringe when I see it. I don't think AEG was wrong in all they did either, but some things they said and did are clearly over the line and can't be defended.

Regardless because of this trial.
Our precious Michael is being mercilessly dragged through the mud thrown under the bus by Both Jackson's and AEG. I don't give a damn who wins this Trial because Michael isn't winning anything either way. There is no justice for him here. Even if we believe AEG is not responsible for his death or hiring Murray - Please at least defend Michael, No matter what, he didn't deserve to be treated disrespectful or spoke about in the manner he was. Don't forget He was having a difficult time, He couldn't sleep and was in physical and emotional pain, but regardless he was still trying his best to bring his dream to us. pls Don't throw him under the bus too :cry:
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To be fair, Michael's dead now so technically it's really the Jacksons vs. AEG. This case is too much of a trainwreck. I just wanna know what kind of case AEG will present after Panish is finished. I don't think neither side can prove what went on when Murray was hired possibly due to hearsay. I doubt there's not even that much of circumstantial evidence.
 
ivy said:
yeah Trayvon Martin murder trial will dominate the media but I believe every reporter reporting this trial is LA based and entertainment reporters. I would imagine the same 4 - AP, CNN, ABC7 and Latimes - will continue to report it.
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I kinda doubt it for some reason. Yeah it'll get media coverage but not the type one can expect from a supposed racial case. In fact the entire Martin thing has been a three-ring circus that I rather not get involved with regardless if Zimmerman is guilty or not.
 
Panish and Phillips should take their "act" on the road. Maybe Vegas!

They BOTH have the ability to make the gallery and/or jury laugh.

I at first thought that Mr. Panish was the one with all of the jokes, but it appears that Mr. Phillips has them laughing as well.
 
LastTear said:
I only watched TII once, but it's in my head that Kenny was the one to say 'that's why we have rehearsals' - am I wrong?
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Yes, it was Michael who said that and he said it twice. Once during TWYMMF--in fact, that clip was shown during the criminal trial.
 
Anthony McCartney @mccartneyAP
“I don’t want to help you with your case,” Phillips said of reviewing Panish’s annotated copies of the emails. That brought some laughter.

Phillips is truly a hostile witness
 
^^^^ Of course he is. So the emails he was handed had Panish's notes on them?
 
I was reading the news thread with Phillips testimony, and he used this expression in an e mail "'calling this game in the 7th inning" .
I can't find it on google, what does it mean ? I saw it's related to sports, but I don't understand the meaning.
Thanks
 
bouee said:
I was reading the news thread with Phillips testimony, and he used this expression in an e mail "'calling this game in the 7th inning" .
I can't find it on google, what does it mean ? I saw it's related to sports, but I don't understand the meaning.
Thanks
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It's a baseball terminology I believe.

There's normally 9 innings (more if it is tied) and there's a ritual that fans stand and stretch at the 7th inning. Some think it originated because players would get tired by the 7th inning and stretch so that they can continue to play the remaining two innings. anyway 7th inning stretch seems to be somewhat irrelevant.

call the game either means to stop / postpone a game or predicting the outcome

I don't know what exactly he means there but he might trying to mean we are almost at the end (9th inning) let's not give up now (at the 7th inning).
 
I am sorry but all I see is Michael being humiliated and disrespected. He is not here to see or feel it but I do. If Michael was really anxious and worried like that on the day of the press conference I wish I could have given him a big hug. The media, the tabloids the public and all the evil people who went after Michael should be ashamed of themselves. Michael was broken down so much that he was scared about performing when it's like home for him. That's their doing. They could never leave him alone. I don't know what is the truth if he was drunk or what really happened since Michael can't say what happened either. It just really makes me sad and angry all the bull**** that Michael went through. The way people talked to or about him, used him, abused him and such. I cherish anything positive or something nice being said or done for Michael right now. This negativity is too much.
 
Big Apple2 said:
Okay, Mr.Vogel needs to knock it off. Enough with the RACE BAITING!

Michael Jackson was a billionare who is loved by MILLIONS of people around the world. He broke color barriers like no other, in my opinion. He did things that some artist can only dream of, namely purchasing the ATV catalog. A BLACK man who owns the Beatles and Elvis' music.

You got Jay-Z and Beyonce living like royalty. Owning their own labels and part owners of sport franchises. Just had that talentless Nikki Manji on American Idol collecting a 12 MILLLION DOLLAR paycheck. Rappers going to jail and coming home to BIGGER music deals. This CLEARLY is no longer the days of Little Richard.

I usually support Mr. Vogel, but I'm not down with the race baiting.

Oh and for the record, I consider Mr. Gongaware calling Michael, Mickey, not disrespectful, but just a nickname. Nothing more, nothing less!
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Standing ovation.

Don't insinuate racism that lightly, just because you want to write an interesting piece, mr. Vogel.
 
marebear said:
I am sorry but all I see is Michael being humiliated and disrespected. He is not here to see or feel it but I do. If Michael was really anxious and worried like that on the day of the press conference I wish I could have given him a big hug. The media, the tabloids the public and all the evil people who went after Michael should be ashamed of themselves. Michael was broken down so much that he was scared about performing when it's like home for him. That's their doing. They could never leave him alone. I don't know what is the truth if he was drunk or what really happened since Michael can't say what happened either. It just really makes me sad and angry all the bull**** that Michael went through. The way people talked to or about him, used him, abused him and such. I cherish anything positive or something nice being said or done for Michael right now. This negativity is too much.
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So send the big Thank You for that to Katherine Jackson and her cubs.
"
 
elapentela said:
So send the big Thank You for that to Katherine Jackson and her cubs.
"
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Exactly^^.

Phillips seems to be into sports terminology and behavior; People with his type of personality usually are--using statements like "its time to play ball! go get them! etc., in their business dealings.

He seems to be an interesting match for Panish though. Now I can see why he was able to hold this job--he is ruthless.

I don't get why the judge talked to Randy about arguing when she did not do that with Karen. Then, why didn't AEG put in an objection for "already asked and answered" if both Randy and Bina claim that Panish was repeating questions and some of them were argumentative. Anyway the judge claimed she did not find the questions argumentative, so I guess she would have over rulled anyway. Hopefully Randy comes in quiet tomorrow and behaves himself.

I wonder why Panish gave him a copy with comments, if it was a mistake or he did it deliberately?
 
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Petrarose said:
Ahhhh you cried. You know that is something strange I find about myself. I am able to cast out outside impressions & ideas surrounding something and just look at it for what it is. So, when I look at TII, I dismiss the death, and all negative distractions and simply look at Michael getting ready for a show, and I enjoyed it. The only time I got sad was at the end when he arches his back and throws head backward--that part really tells me it is the end.
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I didn't break down until the very end of TII when Michael sang Man In The Mirror and put he's hands out to take a final bow. That's the moment I totally lost it.
 
Big Apple2 said:
In my opinion, those emails ONLY came to light when they were handed over to Mother's side. If I recall, Mr. Panish even admitted that THEIR evidence came from the discovery they received from AEG. Which leads me to believe that's all Mother's side has, and that's a bunch of emails from the OTHER side, and NOTHING more.
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I believe the Jacksons learned about some of those emails during Conrad's trial. I think if the prosecution had the authority to show them to Panish that might have led to sue AEG & that might be the reason the Jacksons needed all the emails to build their case.
 
Petrarose said:
Qbee sorry but I don't like Randy either, but I see what he did as typical behavior in that type of crisis situation. You need loudness, wetness, & a shake up.
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Petrarose said:
world.
Qbee sorry but I don't like Randy either, but I see what he did as typical behavior in that type of crisis situation. You need loudness, wetness, & a shake up.
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It's not that I totally disagree with what you're saying. but because of his dramatic asenine emails its hard to judge what really went down in that room that day. His own wording saying I screamed at him and slapped him is concerning. It doesn't equate to I smacked or patted him on the butt. Now that could have very well been the case but what I'm trying to say is his disrespectful (drama queen) emails about MJ's condition and his screaming and slapping references etc brought considerable shade on MJ and AEG as well. It also causes finding the truth very difficult. Michael should have been treated better even under those circumstances and talked about with more respect in the emails. I do realise RP was freaking and concerned about MJS reputation as well as their own if he didn't attend the Press conference. but I Just can't defend how it all went down and how he addressed others so disrespectful about MJ and the events that went down in his emails at that time. It probably wasn't as dramatic as he made it seem based on how MJ appeared at the 02. but now because he was a AH in those emails we have this very negative picture of MJ being publicised. Its just more negative ammunition that can be used against MJ by the media and his enemies etc. I guess I'm just angry at him for writing them and the Jackson's that it was even brought out in this trial.
 
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