Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[LastTear]

Yes, it's the place :

NYC = bagels.
London = cold shower(s) (it's supposed to rain all the time in London)
If he had been in Paris it would have been a ham butter sandwich (made with a baguette), a pizza in Rome, sushis in Tokyo...

This made me :hysterical:

 

[bouee]

Simple.

According to the contract Michael did not need to rehearse. If he wanted he might not attend a single rehearsal and if he took the stage at London and did a good show it would be okay. There would be no breach.

However the show had a lot of creative elements and even basics such as the dancers and the musicians. So if Michael did not go to the rehearsals and the dancers / musicians weren't ready for the show because they could not practice with Michael and if the shows sucked , then Michael would be at breach of contract because he did not deliver a first class show.

so that's why Kenny was worried. He worried without Michael rehearsing the shows will not be ready and/or it will not be good. Phillips knowing these fears said no to any more advances because he thought the shows might not be good and there would be losses and breach of contract.

For a comparative example : think back to school years and taking an exam

There's no requirement for you to study. If you can get a good grade without any studying it's all good. However in most instances if you don't study you wouldn't get a good grade and you could even fail the class.

so logic wise it's like that. It's not like your teacher forces you to study for the exam, you study for it to get a good grade.

in this instance they did not require Michael to rehearse but they expected a good show for it to be successful and that needs preparation.

I think there are 2 explanations :

1- the one you gave (quoted)

2-Phillips thought/feared that Michael would not do the shows in London /shows would not have happened:

Anticpatory = something that happens/has happened earlier than expected OR something that will happen, and has not happened yet

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...ummary/page2?p=3841553&viewfull=1#post3841553

Michael Kane was MJ's business manager. On 6/20, he responded to Phillips saying "And I thought it couldn't get worse." Kane asked Phillips in an email on June 20: "Would a financial coming to Jesus speech help or add to his pressure?" It was response to Phillips' email "This is why it's impossible to advance any money. He may unfortunately be in anticipitory breach at this point". "He (Kane) asked for a million dollars to pay for Mr. Jackson's bills," Phillips testified. Panish: You anticipated MJ would breach the contract by not showing up to rehearsal. Phillips: Yes . None of our agreements have artist need to rehearse, Phillips said, but the artists want to perfect their show, he said. Phillips said if MJ's lack of appearance caused production to not complete, show not open in London, MJ could be in breach of his contract. (ABC7)

"Required is a little too strong, I was concerned that if he didn't go to rehearsal Kenny could not finish the production," Phillips said. “I felt Michael had that obligation, yes," Phillips said about MJ needing to be at rehearsals. If MJ said he didn't need to go to rehearsals, he could've been in breach of this contract, Phillips said.

 

[bouee]

This made me :hysterical:

I had to think twice about Paris. I nearly wrote "a hot Moulin Rouge dancer". And, I don't know what happened, I went for the ham sandwich....I REALLY don't know what happened.

 

[LastTear]

Re the rehearsals, that makes sense. Although Michael was not required by contract to rehearse, his lack of input could effect the production, ie maybe somethings he needed to sign off on or if he wasn't happy with something at the last minute. So, does it say anything in his contract about Michael being liable if the show didn't open? I imagine it would.

And also it is this unwritten confidence thing, they were advancing Michael money so therefore they would feel he was committed if he showed an interest.

Trial by email - I can't remember who said that on here but it was brilliant!

 

[wendijane]

I agree with those of you saying about the awkwardness with RP. actions here .How exactly do you run your ship AEG????

.... If my boss patted/smacked any of my co-workers or me on the bum ,
that is harrasment of the lowest kind in any setting, any situation .

Unprofessional. Isn't it Phillips ? .

 

[Big Apple2]

F.Y.I.

Today starts the Jury Selection in the Travyon Martin Murder Trial, which means things are about to change, in my opinion. I wonder how many reporters, (and there aren't that many to begin with), will be pulled off of this case in order to cover the Martin Trial.

In America they have already started their story line: i.e. America Takes Sides. The media is gonna turn it into a "Black & White" thing and it's gonna be huge, again, just in my opinion.

Okay back to the topic at hand:

By reading the last day or so's worth of testimony, in my opinion Randy Phillips is a wise-guy, who's quick on his feet when it comes to answering his questions. Which the jury MIGHT find amusing. I also find him to be a bit of a blowhard.

 

[ivy]

He mentionned Michael was drunk in the mails, and he also said that later to Karen, according to her.

when you look to media report of the testimonies Phillips is saying he repated what Tohme told him.

Yes, i noticed that when I sorted the emails for the e mail thread. I included the insurance correspondance last week, and I noticed it became more pressing near the end.

I would like to know if it's standard practice not to be insured for illness less than 3 weeks before the shows. I would assume you want insurance coverage ASAP, for everything possible, before spending money.

as you pointed out cancellation insurance is very common. and yeah you would want to have full coverage but that's not always possible.

As far as I can see the media stories out about Michael's health - he had cancer etc. - made insurance companies worry and they wanted to do a detailed second medical and in person watching the show before they insure it.

I have friends that work in insurance, they do a risk calculation and they only offer coverage according to that risk figures. So media stories of sickness might have made them acting careful.

And not being insured + letting the costs go over the limits doesn't make sense. It would be good to know what assets Micheal used to guarantee the costs + advances, and what AEG knew about that.

We are talking about a multi billion dollar company. Sure a $34 Million loss would not be nice but it wouldn't bankrupt them. I would think AEG was more concerned about their reputation if the concerts did not happen than the $34 Million they might have lost.

Michael used the assets of Michael Jackson Company LLC which according to reports have some intellectual rights , royalty income.

I think there are 2 explanations :

1- the one you gave (quoted)

2-Phillips thought/feared that Michael would not do the shows in London /shows would not have happened:

Anticpatory = something that happens/has happened earlier than expected OR something that will happen, and has not happened yet

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...ummary/page2?p=3841553&viewfull=1#post3841553

This sentence supports my theory

Phillips said if MJ's lack of appearance caused production to not complete, show not open in London, MJ could be in breach of his contract. (ABC7)

also look to this

hillips replied, “This is why it is impossible to advance any $$$. He may, unfortunately be in anticipitory (sic) breach at this point.”

“And I thought it couldn’t get worse,” Kane wrote back.

“It could,” the CEO replied. “Kenny Ortega could quit.” (LATimes)

I think it is what was happening.

Ortega was hired as creative director. His job is to put the show together and once that is done his work is done. He's not there for the tour or concerts (as testified by Karen before).

So they had these dancers, musician, all these effects etc. that would be in the show. Obviously he wanted to put together a good job and he got worried more and more as Michael did not show up to rehearsals. He felt they wouldn't be ready. That's why he sent those emails about rehearsals. (you can also see this at TII, where MJ would stand, the cue, how Michael wants the music, how is he going to see the video on the background and so on, all of those needed practice). Gongaware said he wasn't worried because he knew when the moment came Michael would perform.

So then comes Phillips's email to Kane, perhaps by this time he talked to Ortega and he knew Ortega worried that the show would not be ready by opening date so he called it anticipatory breach. This comment about "Ortega can quit" also shows this to me. Ortega if he felt like he couldn't work with Michael and could not get the show ready, could have quit.

anticipatory breach said on June 20, is also showing that he doesn't think not attending rehearsals is a breach. He is saying he's anticipating a breach in the future - which means the concerts not being ready / not happening / not being good.

 

[Petrarose]

Bouee those artists sound like the "ideal" situation to me, but there are incidents of more stern behavior in the real world.
Qbee sorry but I don't like Randy either, but I see what he did as typical behavior in that type of crisis situation. You need loudness, wetness, & a shake up.

Are they intending to finish up with the witness today?

 

[ivy]

The most detailed explanation of the slap came from CNN

Phillips began worrying about Jackson backing out of the concert tour just a month after he signed the contract with AEG Live to promote and produce it and more than a week before the announcement.

"I was worried that we would have a mess, his career would be over," Phillips testified. "There were a lot of things I was worried about."

But instead of pulling the plug then, before millions of dollars were spent, AEG LIve chose to force Jackson ahead.

"Once we go on sale, which we have the right to do, he is locked," Gongaware wrote to Phillips.

Jackson, his children and manager Tohme Tohme boarded a private jet for the London announcement, but he was not ready when Phillips went to his hotel suite to escort him to the O2 Arena.

"MJ is locked in his room drunk and despondent. Tohme and I are trying to sober him up and get him to the press conference with his hair/makeup artist," Phillips told parent-company AEG CEO Tim Leiweke in an e-mail.

Phillips testified it was "a very tense situation" and "frankly, I created the tension in that room. Because I was so nerve-racked, OK, the time slipping away, and his career slipping away."

AEG was hosting thousands of Jackson fans and hundreds of journalists for the anticipated announcement, which would be seen live around the world.

"I screamed at him so loud the walls were shaking," Phillips wrote to Leiweke. "Tohme and I have dressed him, and they are finishing his hair, and then we are rushing to the O2. This is the scariest thing I have ever seen. He's an emotionally paralyzed mess, filled with self-loathing and doubt now that it is show time. He is scared to death. Right now I just want to get through this press conference."

Phillips e-mailed a man who was waited outside the hotel with a convoy of vehicles that he put Jackson in a cold shower and "just slapped him and screamed at him."

In court, Phillips downplayed his words as "an exaggeration."

"I slapped him on the butt," he testified, comparing it to what a football coach would do to a player.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel Panish did not let him explain and I expect Putnam will ask him about it and let him explain. There are media reports that Phillips want to explain the 2 hours and Panish is only forcing him to a yes - no answers.

The emails were sent in that moment which I would believe to be tense & nerve racking. There could be exaggeration , anger, panic and confusion in such highly emotionally charged moments.


edited to add: Also look to this from Michael's perspective. There were rumors that he will be doing a come back tour, if he backed out of it, if the shows wasn't good, his touring career would have been pretty much over and it would almost be impossible to try and do another come back attempt. Probably there was a lot of pressure on everybody - including Phillips and Ortega.

 

[Big Apple2]

The thing is if Michael was too out of it to remember it, I'm not sure a slap and a cold shower would have been enough to get him to come back to his senses.

Man, I wonder where Karen Faye was. I mean, she could have applied her BAGEL THERAPY, like she did in New York, and Michael would have been able to take the stage WITHOUT the slap and/or the cold shower.

 

[Petrarose]

Ivy I agree. Panish never let's people go into depth to explain if he feels it will help the other side, that is, why we are going to get all Randy's cross. I am getting a better sense of the situation in the room, but the transcripts will put it all in context and I will see if I change my feelings about it.

Yes, I agree the emails were sent in highly panicy circumstances.

 

[bouee]

Bouee those artists sound like the "ideal" situation to me, but there are incidents of more stern behavior in the real world.

They are real world examples that I personally witnessed. One of them drunk or under the influence of something 20/24, with a reputation of being violent at times (I personnally never saw him violent). He would "escape" the hotel at times to give money to the homeless, and not remenber it afterwards. You would have to follow him and walk him back, so he wouldn't get lost.
I never saw anyone treating him badly, you don't need to slap people around to get them to do what they have to do.
Anyway, I said didn't see all the artists of the world & I was not in their rooms. i was just saying that what you describe may be true, only that I never saw that. This kind of things were anticipated.

 

[Big Apple2]

But instead of pulling the plug then, before millions of dollars were spent, AEG LIve chose to force Jackson ahead.

Phillips testified it was "a very tense situation" and "frankly, I created the tension in that room. Because I was so nerve-racked, OK, the time slipping away, and his career slipping away."

AEG was hosting thousands of Jackson fans and hundreds of journalists for the anticipated announcement, which would be seen live around the world.

OMG! The media would have had a field day IF Michael didn't show for that press conference.

I remember here in America, the cable news channels were on stand-by, just waiting for MJ to appear so they could go LIVE to that press conference. And the minute he hit the ground, it was like BOOM, all eyes were on that press conference AND him.

I also remember some silly little female reporter at the scene, giving a blow-by-blow as to the number of folks who had showed up at that point, i.e. Not Many (at that point). She was going on and on and on about the size of the crowd. Of course as time went on, the crowd got bigger and bigger and I never saw that silly little reporters face again. Bottomline, the press was just waiting for "SOMETHING" to go wrong so they could report just how bad the press conference was. Vultures that they are!

P.S. I'm not surprised Michael wanted a little "taste" the night before. Shoot, I probably would have done the same!

 

[bouee]

T
Phillips testified it was "a very tense situation" and "frankly, I created the tension in that room. Because I was so nerve-racked, OK, the time slipping away, and his career slipping away."

Good that he acknowledges that. He seems to me to be the kind of person who would create tension even when he is calm. So "nerve racked", that must have been something.

 

[bouee]

Man, I wonder where Karen Faye was. I mean, she could have applied her BAGEL THERAPY, like she did in New York, and Michael would have been able to take the stage WITHOUT the slap and/or the cold shower.

PLEASE, Big Apple, focus and try to follow what people say in this thread ! Petrarose already explained the NYC bagels are not the same as the London bagels. Bagel therapy was unfortunately impossible in London, so Karen would have been useless.
She would have ended up being slapped on the butt by Phillips.
:wink:

 

[Petrarose]

They are real world examples that I personally witnessed. One of them drunk or under the influence of something 20/24, with a reputation of being violent at times (I personnally never saw him violent). He would "escape" the hotel at times to give money to the homeless, and not remenber it afterwards. You would have to follow him and walk him back, so he wouldn't get lost.
I never saw anyone treating him badly, you don't need to slap people around to get them to do what they have to do.
Anyway, I said didn't see all the artists of the world & I was not in their rooms. i was just saying that what you describe may be true, only that I never saw that. This kind of things were anticipated.

I understand.

Any more news from anywhere about what will happen today.

Big Apple you know you are so right. Many people take some drinks and have a good time on the weekend. Gee I start on Friday. Sometimes after I finish working I go to a bar in my neighborhood and have a drink and do paperwork. It is very relaxing indeed.

Bouee why do you think Randy would create tension even when he is calm. I thought that funny. Actually, when I saw him on the stand during the Muarry trial, I liked him. He appeared very low-key, kept squeaking his chair, he smiled, he was pleasant--people have very different sides to them. If I did not know about the e-mails, I would continue thinking that Randy was this cool guy. He presented very well. This makes me think that if he presents well with this jury that may tone down the e-mails. I wish I could see how he appears on the stand; unfortunately you can't get that from a transcript.

 

[bouee]

anticipatory breach said on June 20, is also showing that he doesn't think not attending rehearsals is a breach. He is saying he's anticipating a breach in the future - which means the concerts not being ready / not happening / not being good.

yes, to me it meant that Phillips at that point was anticipating the show cancellation/ being postponed.

re the insurance, things , when I tried to gather the info we have so far ( emails) , it goes like this

- It starts on january 7th, so before Michael signs the contract:
Email from Bob Taylor insurance broker to Trell on 1/7/09: prior to speaking w/ carriers we ask the artist to attend medical with a doctor... A full medical with both blood/urine tests. The doctor also wants to review the medical records over the last 5 years to ensure full disclosure. Insurers require further medical examination to be carried out by their nominated doctor. They may restrict illness cover or death from illness cover until this examination has taken place. (ABC7)

- February "passes" his exam with doctor slavit, but broker wants more medical records/ exams, asks for medical exams every 21 days, PG says he can't put anything in writing.

- End of april, wooley acknowledges there will be no insurance until Michael takes exams in London.

- then this in may : "Email from 5/28/09: Trell to Taylor:"We really need to get that medical done" (ABC7)"

- june :
Email from 6/23/09: Trell to Taylor : "Any update on the availability of Term insurance?" (life insurance) (ABC7)

Email on 6/23/09 from Timm Wooley to Bob Taylor (insurance broker): Kenny Ortega has responsibility only for the show content and structure Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray are responsible for MJ rehearsal and attendance schedule. Looks like there might have been an issue in KO either not being demanding enough.

Email from 6/24/09: Taylor to Trell : Insurers have refused to move on this. Huge amount of speculation in the media regarding artist's health. They feel if they're to consider providing illness to cover this particular artist, they must have very through medical report (ABC7)

Panish showed email from Gongaware to the insurance broker on June 24, 2009:
"Dr. Murray can comment on the availability of the records." (ABC7)

On June 25, 2009, at 5:54 a.m., London time, (that would be 24th june around 10pm LA time) Taylor sent an email to Dr. Conrad Murray, who had been brought onto the tour to tend to Jackson. The email, introduced as evidence in the case, read:

“The insurers have specifically requested information on the following:

Press reports on the artist at various times using a wheelchair, and whether any of these occasions were as a result of a medical issue.
Press reports that the artist had, or has, suffered a back injury.
Press reports that the artist is suffering, or has previously suffered from lupus.
Press reports that the artist is suffering, or has previously suffered from cancer.
Press reports that the artist was hospitalized in 2005.
Dates and brief details of any cosmetic procedures, and specific details of any complications.
Press reports that the artist has suffered from lung infection/emphysema and chronic gastrointestinal bleeding.
Press reports that the artist has minimal diet (is possibly anorexic).”

Murray's answer (from Murray trial)
SM states that the iPhone reflects that Murray responded to Bob Taylor in the UK on 6/25/09 at 11:17 am, and the body states "Dear Bob, I am in receipt of your email. I spoke with Mr. Jackson and requested release of his medical records in order for you to procure a cancellation policy for his show, however the request was denied. I therefore request that AEG consult with kindly with Mr. Jackson for its relevance because he is under the impression that he is already secured in the US. As far as the statements published by the press, let me say they're all fallacious to the best of my knowledge. Sincerely, Conrad Murray"

25th June 09

Email from 6/25/09: Gongaware to Taylor : "If we don't get sickness coverage, we are dropping this policy" (ABC7)
Email from 6/25/09: Taylor to Gongaware : The consultation in London is critical. The doctor is holding the afternoon of the 6th July open at Harley St. But keep in mind the visit could take 2 hours plus (ABC7)

Makes it sound like lack of insurance suddenly becomes a problem at the end of may.

 

[Big Apple2]

PLEASE, Big Apple, focus and try to follow what people say in this thread ! Petrarose already explained the NYC bagels are not the same as the London bagels. Bagel therapy was unfortunately impossible in London, so Karen would have been useless.
She would have ended up being slapped on the butt by Phillips.
:wink:

Well I was just thinking that she didn't want to travel with the "patches," because she felt uncomfortable, or she might get in trouble. But there would have been no problems if she carried NY Bagels as an aid to what ails ya.

Oh and if Randy Phillips had slapped her on the butt, she would have said "he hit me because he's jealous of my relationship with Michael, just like EVERYBODY else is." LOL!

 

[bouee]

Bouee why do you think Randy would create tension even when he is calm. I thought that funny. Actually, when I saw him on the stand during the Muarry trial, I liked him. He appeared very low-key, kept squeaking his chair, he smiled, he was pleasant--people have very different sides to them. If I did not know about the e-mails, I would continue thinking that Randy was this cool guy. He presented very well. This makes me think that if he presents well with this jury that may tone down the e-mails. I wish I could see how he appears on the stand; unfortunately you can't get that from a transcript.

yes, we all have rdifferent perceptions. I didn't have a particular impression of him during the CM trial, only that he was very much "controlling" himself, which can be normal when you're on the stand, it's not an easy situation.

but now.. from everything that has been said about him, even from the beginning of the trial, he sounds like a bully to me, disrespectful and making quick and abrupt decisions. That's why I said to me he would create tensions even hen he's calm IMO. You would never know when the vocano is going to go into erepution..
Definitely NOT my kind of person, anyway !

 

[santabarbara4mj]

Re the rehearsals, that makes sense. Although Michael was not required by contract to rehearse, his lack of input could effect the production, ie maybe somethings he needed to sign off on or if he wasn't happy with something at the last minute. So, does it say anything in his contract about Michael being liable if the show didn't open? I imagine it would.

And also it is this unwritten confidence thing, they were advancing Michael money so therefore they would feel he was committed if he showed an interest.

Trial by email - I can't remember who said that on here but it was brilliant!

I agree with you. Although he was not contractually obligated to rehearse, at a certain point (when dancers knew their steps) he would typically participate in rehearsals. Michael's famous "that's why we rehearse" line in TII says it all. He was an artist and a perfectionist and Paul G, KO et al all knew him well enough to know his habits over many years and many tours. That he was not showing up when they expected him to was a departure from his normal procedure, so of course, they were worried. It's reasonable.

 

[StellaJackson]

From Joe Voel via twitter:

Particularly given the historical treatment of African American artists and entertainers, emails emerging in the AEG-Jackson trial should be alarming and revealing even to those who don't count themselves fans of the King of Pop. AEG executive Randy Phillips wrote the following in email about Michael Jackson on the day of his London press conference in 2009:

"We still have to get his nose on properly."
"He is a self-loathing emotionally paralyzed mess."
"I screamed at him so loud the walls were shaking."
"I just slapped him."

This follows testimony and emails from AEG executive Paul Gongaware in which he referred to the artist condescendingly as "Mikey" and lazy, while attempting to manipulate the show calendar for the expressed purpose of deceiving Jackson about the number of shows and days of rest.

Paul Gongaware was also the man who wrote, by way of warning, to concert director Kenny Ortega: "We want to remind [Dr. Conrad Murray] that it is AEG, not MJ, who is paying his salary. We want to remind him what is expected of him." What was expected of Dr. Murray (now a convicted felon), of course, was to do whatever was necessary, right or wrong, legal or illegal, to ensure Jackson was on the stage making AEG money. Jackson's physical and mental health were irrelevant.

Regardless of the trial outcome, AEG's terrible, unethical, exploitive treatment of one of the great artist-entertainers of the 20th century, should remind that the struggle for fair and humane treatment -- for black artists and all artists -- against corporate abuse continues.

 

[bouee]

Well I was just thinking that she didn't want to travel with the "patches," because she felt uncomfortable, or she might get in trouble. But there would have been no problems if she carried NY Bagels as an aid to what ails ya.
!

Do NYC bagels come in patches ???

Ok,I need to go now, see you later

 

[ivy]

F.Y.I.

Today starts the Jury Selection in the Travyon Martin Murder Trial, which means things are about to change, in my opinion. I wonder how many reporters, (and there aren't that many to begin with), will be pulled off of this case in order to cover the Martin Trial.

In America they have already started their story line: i.e. America Takes Sides. The media is gonna turn it into a "Black & White" thing and it's gonna be huge, again, just in my opinion.

yeah Trayvon Martin murder trial will dominate the media but I believe every reporter reporting this trial is LA based and entertainment reporters. I would imagine the same 4 - AP, CNN, ABC7 and Latimes - will continue to report it.

 

[Petrarose]

Well I was just thinking that she didn't want to travel with the "patches," because she felt uncomfortable, or she might get in trouble. But there would have been no problems if she carried NY Bagels as an aid to what ails ya.

Oh and if Randy Phillips had slapped her on the butt, she would have said "he hit me because he's jealous of my relationship with Michael, just like EVERYBODY else is." LOL!

O that is a good one. You know I could picture her saying that on the stand, that because she was close to Michael because he wanted to see her at all times, Randy hit her because he was jealous of the relationship.

bouee it is interesting that you did not have any particular impression of him on the stand--that was something I looked at for all the witnesses. I had to do jury duty, and we were told to listen to their words and watch their demeanor. I mean the lawyer who questioned us did not come right out and say it, but he asked us questions so that WE would say that is what we will do. Then he would repeat back what we said. You know lawyers are tricky. That is why now when I listen to a witness I watch them carefully to to see how they appear when they say something. I think that is why lawyers dread when their client takes the stand and he blows up. It does not give a good impression to the jury. you can bet Randy will be creating an interesting impression on the stand.

 

[Big Apple2]

From Joe Voel via twitter:

Particularly given the historical treatment of African American artists and entertainers

Okay, Mr.Vogel needs to knock it off. Enough with the RACE BAITING!

Michael Jackson was a billionare who is loved by MILLIONS of people around the world. He broke color barriers like no other, in my opinion. He did things that some artist can only dream of, namely purchasing the ATV catalog. A BLACK man who owns the Beatles and Elvis' music.

You got Jay-Z and Beyonce living like royalty. Owning their own labels and part owners of sport franchises. Just had that talentless Nikki Manji on American Idol collecting a 12 MILLLION DOLLAR paycheck. Rappers going to jail and coming home to BIGGER music deals. This CLEARLY is no longer the days of Little Richard.

I usually support Mr. Vogel, but I'm not down with the race baiting.

Oh and for the record, I consider Mr. Gongaware calling Michael, Mickey, not disrespectful, but just a nickname. Nothing more, nothing less!

 

[Petrarose]

Okay, Mr.Vogel needs to knock it off. Enough with the RACE BAITING!

Michael Jackson was a billionare who is loved by MILLIONS of people around the world. He broke color barriers like no other, in my opinion. He did things that some artist can only dream of, namely purchasing the ATV catalog. A BLACK man who owns the Beatles and Elvis' music.

You got Jay-Z and Beyonce living like royalty. Owning their own labels and part owners of sport franchises. Just had that talentless Nikki Manji on American Idol collecting a 12 MILLLION DOLLAR paycheck. Rappers going to jail and coming home to BIGGER music deals. This CLEARLY is no longer the days of Little Richard.

I usually support Mr. Vogel, but I'm not down with the race baiting.

You know I was thinking the same thing about the race, but I did not say anything. I am not with him on the color coded thing, and I already said why a long, long, time ago. I don't think Mikey is bad; I think it is endearing within its context. I don't think Randy acted the way he did towards Michael because he was Black, but because they had no respect for him due to the name calling by the press & the way the press portrayed Michael. I also notice that in life, people treat those they think are taking drugs with disdain, and they also treat men who they see as "soft" with disdain. I can see Randy responding to all these and acting towards Michael in that way. Notice Muarry's lead lawyer and his wife, Putnam, Treet, Freak, Randy all use those media driven words when they talked about Michael. God knows what Panish and others said about Michael too before they started working for Katherine.

 

[Big Apple2]

God knows what Panish and others said about Michael too before they started working for Katherine.

Thank you for bringing that up, because the very same thing has crossed my mind on many occassions. Mr. Panish works in a large law firm, and I'm POSITIVE that they have all had an opinion of Michael over the years. It's only Human Nature, in my opinion.

We know that "SOME" folks have formed an opinion of Michael by reading what the media has to say about him over the years. I'm sure there are folks on that jury who have ALREADY formed an opinion of Michael by what they read over the years and/or from stories they heard from their friends and family.

 

[Petrarose]

Thank you for bringing that up, because the very same thing has crossed my mind on many occassions. Mr. Panish works in a large law firm, and I'm POSITIVE that they have all had an opinion of Michael over the years. It's only Human Nature, in my opinion.

We know that "SOME" folks have formed an opinion of Michael by reading what the media has to say about him over the years. I'm sure there are folks on that jury who have ALREADY formed an opinion of Michael by what they read over the years and/or from stories they heard from their friends and family.

Yeah some of the jury did say what they thought of Michael or his music and the allegations. I would think that all people who have read or heard about Michael would have such opinions of him, except for those who met him intimately. People read the news or listen to tv, so their only knowledge of Michael is what they read or hear, so obviously they will base that on their evaluation of him. The thing was the AEG staff were caught due to the e-mails.

I am wondering if someone like Karen went to Randy and told him that there were some e-mails where Michael was talked about negatively, or that she heard XYZ say something. I find it strange that the whole defense case is based on e-mails. How did they know that the e-mails had all this bad stuff. Panish was really going after AEG to send correspondence & he was waiting for it to build his case. They are also going after Frank's e-mails too. I am really thinking that Karen had something to do with this initially. she is their closest ally within the AEG framework. Jermaine talked about her glowingly in his book--the beautiful Karen. I wonder if she is still painting Allred's face.

 

[soulmum]

I believe Joe Vogel said 'all artists'.

 

[Big Apple2]

I am wondering if someone like Karen went to Randy and told him that there were some e-mails where Michael was talked about negatively, or that she heard XYZ say something. I find it strange that the whole defense case is based on e-mails. How did they know that the e-mails had all this bad stuff.

Nah, I don't think Ms. Faye knew about the emails.

In my opinion, those emails ONLY came to light when they were handed over to Mother's side. If I recall, Mr. Panish even admitted that THEIR evidence came from the discovery they received from AEG. Which leads me to believe that's all Mother's side has, and that's a bunch of emails from the OTHER side, and NOTHING more.

I don't know about anybody else, but I expected Mother's side to have a lot more than that. It's like they brought this case with NO evidence, hoping for some sort of settlement at the start and when that didn't happen, they started checking those emails looking for something to base their case on.