Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[CaptainEoLove85]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

This trial is completely ridiculous. I can't believe the judge is allowing all this useless information.

 

[AliCat]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I'm sure it didn't help matters, Michael, that Michael was expected to write and record new music for his various siblings, along with doing the Family Reunion, July 3, 2010, at the Dallas Cowboys Football Stadium.

For Michael to stand up to his parents and Concert Promoter, Leonard Rowe, who like Joseph Jackson, like to think that they were a 50 year old man's manager and then telling them that he, Michael, wanted no further business interactions, which would include not recording 5 different albums for his siblings.

I still shake my head at that thought. It wasn't enough on Michael Jackson's plate, of bringing a spectacular Show together by the middle of July, at the 02 Arena, but he was suppose to write a bunch of new song's for his siblings because that was the deal he had going in to this Jackson Family Reunion Concert.

So you see this is pay back time for AEG Live for having the golden child turn down a lucrative business venture for the lazy Jackson cubs. Why didn't they ever record their own albums with their own creativity, because Michael owed them for sharing the same genetic pool!

 

[bouee]

During cross-examination, she sighed at questions and told AEG attorney Marvin Putnam, “I’m 60 years old, sir, and you’re talking about a 30-year span, I’m going to do the best I can. ... How old are you, sir?”

After jurors and observers laughed, Faye asked slyly, “Is that hearsay?” referring to multiple hearsay objections AEG.

“You go girl,” said one fan in the courtroom who gave her the thumbs-up sign.

Later, when an AEG attorney interrupted a line of questioning, Faye said, “Oh my god, are we objecting? Sidebar?”

:doh:

Faye said she did not discuss Jackson’s drug problem with him personally.

“I just avoided that issue like the plague, sir, the molestation and the drug areas,” she told Putnam today.

What a good friend she is. So she never tried anything to actually help Michael, to make sure she would still be with him.

I understand why Debbie did not want her around, it probably had nothing to do with jealousy.

ETA : she has torpedoed her own testimony. A lot of things she's saying will help AEG. In the end, after everyone has testified, she will appear self centered and manipulative to the jury.

 

[Tygger]

Ivy, I agree with you that Faye, like Sankey and Ortega, was an AEG employee who had concerns about the health of the artist and expressed those concerns to another, superior AEG employee. This is where I disagree:

However I'm not sure if this other tour events are really helping Katherine. They are showing other doctors and other promoters are also doing the same thing. Keeping Michael in a "balance", with drugs enough to mask his pain but not make in not function, forcing him to stage and so on. It makes it sound like Michael could have died anytime, under treatment of any doctor on any tour.

Faye explained that in past tours, Gongaware found doctors specifically for issues he was aware Michael had. These doctors were most likely were hired by the promoter at that time and not Michael. Although the defendants repeat infinitely Michael asked for this particular doctor and hired him, the past shows the producer is the superior here and hires the doctor and, Gongaware is clear on what that doctor’s role will be. The trial will prove if they did even the minimal due diligence before the alleged hire of this doctor.

Dutchie, I do not believe we have seen Katherine’s deposition. Katherine said the reason she did not pursue restitution was financial. She did NOT additionally say it was because the doctor did not have money. Katherine did not elaborate past the word financial; she may very well elaborate during her testimony.

I agree with you that Katherine is seeking justice because of her lost in this trial and I support her in this regard.

Regarding restitution, the only Jacksons to be awarded restitution would be Michael’s parents and his children. After Michael’s parents' passing, it would be left to the children to pursue. I would not wish that on those children. I also would not wish them a fruitless effort. If this trial finds the plaintiffs successful, they deserve the damages the jury awards them in actual, not phantom, dollars.

 

[Vici]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Are there any female employe/friend/wife of MJ that Karen haven't dissed? How come all these women in his life were always jealous of her? Lol

Oh well.

 

[Vici]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I also have to say one thing. This judge and court does not seem to act professionelly at all.

The judge apparently have no problem with fans answering questions ("LA Gear") or fans exclaiming their support for witnesses/statements in court ("Yo go girl!"). What can you expect when even the judge takes part in the game 'guess-the-brand-of-MJs-shoes'.

I just remember trial in 2005 where the judge did not allow any outburst or sneaky comments. He was tough but fair.

 

[LastTear]

@Tygger

Dutchie, I do not believe we have seen Katherine’s deposition. Katherine said the reason she did not pursue restitution was financial. She did NOT additionally say it was because the doctor did not have money. Katherine did not elaborate past the word financial; she may very well elaborate during her testimony.

Ok so please explain what you think she meant by financial.

Regarding restitution, the only Jacksons to be awarded restitution would be Michael’s parents and his children. After Michael’s parents' passing, it would be left to the children to pursue. I would not wish that on those children. I also would not wish them a fruitless effort. If this trial finds the plaintiffs successful, they deserve the damages the jury awards them in actual, not phantom, dollars.

No, the children cannot go after Murray when they are older. That ship has passed. And I wouldn't call preventing the person who took your loved one's life from making money on their death a fruitless effort.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The whole thing is a circus and a joke

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

And I wouldn't call preventing the person who took your loved one's life from making money on their death a fruitless effort
---------------

its fruitless when your only goal is to make money yourself!

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I am sorry what did she say about Lisa Marie?

And on twitter,before LMP and her became friends, Karen said exactly the same thing she said about Debbie for LMP " she was jealous of my relationship with Mike,cause we knew each other since longtime,and Lisa didn't like me for that " lol Lisa even called Karen a fat cow or something like that :lol:

I think we can all say now, Karen was the one who was JEALOUS of Lisa and Debbie.

Back to serious things, the judge in this trial is a moron.

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

And I wouldn't call preventing the person who took your loved one's life from making money on their death a fruitless effort
---------------

its fruitless when your only goal is to make money yourself!

Sadly for Mike, everybody around him, Jack$on family, fake friends, business partner, wanted and still want just money from him.

 

[Vici]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

And on twitter,before LMP and her became friends, Karen said exactly the same thing she said about Debbie for LMP " she was jealous of my relationship with Mike,cause we knew each other since longtime,and Lisa didn't like me for that " lol Lisa even called Karen a fat cow or something like that :lol:

I think we can all say now, Karen was the one who was JEALOUS of Lisa and Debbie.

Back to serious things, the judge in this trial is a moron.

Karens post at MJJF

Oct 25 2004, 09:22 AM

I was whispering in his ear...."I wish you were wearing those GOLD
PANTS tonight"!!!!!

Really...that shot was taken in New York while we were working on THEY
DON'T CARE ABOUT US.

We were both going through a divorce...and we just wanted to have some fun!
So we stepped out to the MOTOWN Cafe, where a dear friend of mine, Tracy
who created that restaurant invited us.

I think Lisa called me an "OLD COW" in a tabloid when she saw this....
HER LOSS........we had a good laugh about that!

http://www.mjj.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=18

Lmao. I just cant.

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^^ :lol:

 

[Bubs]

Oct 25 2004, 09:22 AM

Faye said she did not discuss Jackson’s drug problem with him personally.

“I just avoided that issue like the plague, sir, the molestation and the drug areas,” she told Putnam today.

What a good friend she is. So she never tried anything to actually help Michael, to make sure she would still be with him.

She is pathetic. I understand why Debbie did not want her around, it probably had nothing to do with jealousy.

ETA : she has torpedoed her own testimony. A lot of things she's saying will help AEG. In the end, after everyone has testified, she will appear self centered and manipulative to the jury.

She is insane or on something!!!
She says she avoided to talk drug issues with Michael. As a friend and employee, she should have talked to Mike.
Just like she accuses AEG for not caring, she didn't care either. All she care not to upset Michael so she could keep her job.
Doesn't she see herself and how hypocritical she is?

Where the hell she thinks she is, in comedy club?
If she is not crying, she makes jokes, is she bipolar?

 

[Vici]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Karen dished about Debbie and drugs on her FB 2-3 years ago

2010
Karen Faye Kissinger

DR [Debbie Rowe] was obsessed with the idea of "having Michael".
I refused to learn to administer the drugs, because it is NOT my place to do so. He needed qualified HELP. It is my opinion, it was more important to keep "the money train" going, than to do the right thing and let Michael heal properly. DR administering the drugs, was a way she could get his attention, and stay close to him? Is obsession sinister? Is wanting to be in Michael's company, sinister? Why do you think she offered to give him children? To be connected to him forever.

To keep the money train going... as a friend shouldnt she have at least tried to talk with MJ about it? Was she afraid she was gonna lose her job and be cut out of money or what? I mean she said she has during her 30 years NEVER talked with MJ about his "drug use". I find it odd. She saw a problem according to her but never touched the subject because she wanted their friendship to be a platform of safety and peace.

There are sooooo many FB posts Karen have made over the years. Im not gonna post them here because it got actually nothing to do with the trial but oh boy she really trashtalks Debbie. Interesting because since last year she has talked good about Debbie and telling her twitter friends they were friends and used to go home to each other, swimming in her pool etc-

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

makes me wonder how the family are asking for all this money from all the tours they claim mj would have done if they are making him out to be a D.A who could have died at any minute on all his other tours. as usual their claims are full of contridictions depending on what the agenda is

 

[Diplomate]

“I just avoided that issue like the plague, sir, the molestation and the drug areas,” she told Putnam today.

Just with that, AEG is happy.

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

makes me wonder how the family are asking for all this money from all the tours they claim mj would have done if they are making him out to be a D.A who could have died at any minute on all his other tours. as usual their claims are full of contridictions depending on what the agenda is

Yes, it's completely stupid, and Granny's lawyers don't seem to see their stupidity. But hey, the Jack$on$ got the same kind of lawyers for Murray, morons go with morons.

 

[Bubs]

To keep the money train going... as a friend shouldnt she have at least tried to talk with MJ about it? Was she afraid she was gonna lose her job and be cut out of money or what? I mean she said she has during her 30 years NEVER talked with MJ about his "drug use". I find it odd. She saw a problem according to her but never touched the subject because she wanted their friendship to be a platform of safety and peace.

She testified 2 days ago:
Faye also recalled an odd incident before Jackson performed at Madison Square Garden in fall, 2001.When she went to his hotel room to make up his face before a show, Faye testified that a doctor stopped her and said: “I just gave Michael a shot, he’s going to be asleep for the next five or six hours.” “I said that can’t be, he’s set to perform,” Kaye said she responded.She eventually got into Jackson’s room, woke him up and fed MJ bagels to keep him awake and ready to perform, that makeup artist testified.(NYPost)

I'm astonished by her stupidity and how she conradicts herself all the time!
Same issues, different times, but she did what everybody else did to Michael, kept money train going.

She is looney living in the class house:angry:

 

[Annita]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Edit.......

 

[Virre]

She testified 2 days ago:
Faye also recalled an odd incident before Jackson performed at Madison Square Garden in fall, 2001.When she went to his hotel room to make up his face before a show, Faye testified that a doctor stopped her and said: “I just gave Michael a shot, he’s going to be asleep for the next five or six hours.” “I said that can’t be, he’s set to perform,” Kaye said she responded.She eventually got into Jackson’s room, woke him up and fed MJ bagels to keep him awake and ready to perform, that makeup artist testified.(NYPost)

I'm astonished by her stupidity and how she conradicts herself all the time!
Same issues, different times, but she did what everybody else did to Michael, kept money train going.

She is looney living in the class house:angry:

She did also say that "she think it was Frank Cascio who helped her with Michael) at the hotel room. She has actually never mentioned Frank before, but apparently she did in court now.

 

[Tygger]

@Tygger
Ok so please explain what you think she meant by financial.

Last Tear, I am waiting to see if Katherine will elaborate during her testimony.

No, the children cannot go after Murray when they are older. That ship has passed.

I am correct in what I said. If the family sought restitution and was successful, yes, Michael’s children would be left to be diligent and pursue the doctor whenever they believed he made income after Michael' parents' passing. I have said many times that is much harder to do than some believe and it is not necessarily fruitful.

Fans can also prevent any future monetary success of the doctor as well.

And I wouldn't call preventing the person who took your loved one's life from making money on their death a fruitless effort.

Last Tear, Elusive Moonwalker, and Moonwalker77, is that not what the plaintiffs are attempting with this civil trial? They believe the defendants negligently hired the doctor who took their loved one's life. If successful, the plaintiffs can be awarded the TII monies AEG made from Michael’s death and more.

 

[legacylegacy7]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

In court has anybody mentioned Michael's reasons for wanting to do these shows?


* He wanted to bring back the message of love and healing in his songs.

* He wanted his children to see him perform. They were finaly old enough to understand and he was still young enough to do it.

* He wanted to thank his fans for sticking by him and waiting for him to return. The title "This is it" meant all of those things. The event the world has been waiting for and the message of love that the world needs.

* Also,he wanted the money to help others. MJ never told anybody that he needed the money, but he did tell peolple that the money would help others.

 

[ivy]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

May 11 Update

Michael Bush Deposition

Michael Bush is one of the witnesses that is late added by Jacksons. AEG wants to depose Michael Bush before he testifies. IT's not clear if Jacksons actually plan to call him to stand.

Conrad Murray police interview

Jacksons and AEG is arguing over Murray's interview with the police on June 27 2009. (This is the interview that was shown during the criminal trial).

AEG wants to use the interview to show that Murray said Michael asked him to be on his team, and Murray believed that he was the employee of Michael Jackson. AEG says this will show Murray's state of mind. AEG says Murray's state of mind can show that AEG and Murray never entered into a contract and it rebuts that Murray had conflict of interest or divided loyalties.

AEG points out that Jackson experts use other parts of the interview (that Murray gave Michael propofol for 6 weeks, Murray talked with AEG people at the hospital and how Detective Martinez learned 3 bags of Propofol from Murray and so on) but oppose AEG using this part of the interview. AEG calls it unfair.


AEG states statements that show state of mind, emotion, physical sensation, intent, plan, motive is admissible when they are used to show the person's state of mind and and explore or prove act of conduct of that person.

Jacksons respond to this calling Murray's interview inadmissible hearsay. Jacksons also argue that Murray's belief that he was MJ's employee is irrelevant and whether Murray was employed or independent contractor of Michael or AEG needs to be determined on the basis of several objective factors. Jacksons also ask Murray's statement about employment to be excluded because it can mislead the jury. Overall Jacksons argue that it's the jury that should determine whether Murray was hired by AEG or Michael.

AEG responds pointing out Jacksons arguing Murray's state of mind being irrelevant is outrageous. AEG argues that Murray's statements aren't hearsay because they won't be offered as truth , they will be just offered as evidence.

AEG states that they don't plan to use the statements to argue or prove that Murray was Michael's employee. They say that the statement shows that Murray did not consider himself to be contractually bound to AEG Live. Similarly AEG argues Murray's subjective belief as who he was actually working for is relevant to determine whether in fact Murray could have felt the pressure claimed by Jacksons. AEG argues Murray could not have felt pressure from a conflict he did not know existed. AEG states Murray's statement shows Murray did not believe he was in the service of AEG Live at the time he treated Michael, is admissible to show his state of mind.

(Note: These last set of documents also again reference that "Murray was at most an independent contractor is the law of the case")

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Thanks ivy. No wonder jacksons want to stop this evidence. its v important imo. see how bent the judge is again this time

 

[Aquarius]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I also have to say one thing. This judge and court does not seem to act professionelly at all.

The judge apparently have no problem with fans answering questions ("LA Gear") or fans exclaiming their support for witnesses/statements in court ("Yo go girl!"). What can you expect when even the judge takes part in the game 'guess-the-brand-of-MJs-shoes'.

I just remember trial in 2005 where the judge did not allow any outburst or sneaky comments. He was tough but fair.

Vici, that was the same problem during OJ trial. I read Judge Ito lost control of the court. Maybe Judge Ito & Judge Palezuelos have the same m.o.

KF is disrespectful to the court and to the subject on trial. She's an adult & should realize that this trial is a serious matter. This trial is about a company that is being accused of hiring & not supervising a doctor who cause the death of a person. I think to her this is her second moment of glory in her life & wants to live it to the max while forgetting the decorum she has to exhibit in court.

 

[bouee]

Faye explained that in past tours, Gongaware found doctors specifically for issues he was aware Michael had. These doctors were most likely were hired by the promoter at that time and not Michael. Although the defendants repeat infinitely Michael asked for this particular doctor and hired him, the past shows the producer is the superior here and hires the doctor and, Gongaware is clear on what that doctor’s role will be. The trial will prove if they did even the minimal due diligence before the alleged hire of this doctor.

I don't see how a doctor can even have a conflict of interest. A ndoctor's job is to take care of someone"s health, period. If the Jacksons win this, it will be a precedent in the sow business and above all in sport (doping).

She is insane or on something!!!
She says she avoided to talk drug issues with Michael. As a friend and employee, she should have talked to Mike.
Just like she accuses AEG for not caring, she didn't care either. All she care not to upset Michael so she could keep her job.
Doesn't she see herself and how hypocritical she is?

Where the hell she thinks she is, in comedy club?
If she is not crying, she makes jokes, is she bipolar?

As HUMAN BEING she should have talked to him. Agreed , she is totally hypocrital.
EDIT : if she thought that he was dying, if it was such an emergency anyone around him could have called 911 or contacted another doctor, their own GP for example. Was she relying on Murray too ? She doesn't say that she suspected him.

------

I'll go and see if there is more info about what she said yesterday. I don't understand why it seems she didn't talk about all the moments Michael was NOT on drugs. It sounds like she betrayed him with that testimony.

 

[morinen]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

She loved him, and when the whole world turned against him, she wanted to support him and show loyalty instead of causing another conflict. Maybe part of it was fear of losing her position - which was legit, as she probably would have lost it, knowing how Michael avoided the problem and tended to distance himself from people who confronted him. But I also understand the other part of it where she wanted to stay by his side. He needed loyalty. It's not an easy black and white decision. Yes, in the long run it seems to be a coward choice to enable him. But let's face it, if she had said something, it probably wouldn't have changed anything other than her being employed.

It's easy to say now "they should have said/done something", but those who have dealt with a real addicted person in real life - especially with an addicted person that is more powerful than you - know that helping him is nearly an impossible task. Often it's a choice between providing unconditional support or being kicked out with your "truth". And everyone who was in Michael's circle and saw his problems had to make this choice. Karen, Debbie, Michael's family, his employees, his managers - everyone.

Karen may have a lot of issues, but the most important thing I see about her is that she truly loves Michael. She loved him all those years, she still does, and probably will love him till the end of her life. And although he never returned her feelings or gave her what she needed, she still supported him all his life. For that, I'm willing to forgive her many things.

I'm astonished by her stupidity and how she conradicts herself all the time!
Same issues, different times, but she did what everybody else did to Michael, kept money train going.

She is looney living in the class house:angry:

Are you talking about 2001 and 2009? I think the situations were different in her eyes. In 2001 Michael was just sleepy, and in 2009 he was loosing weight, cold, repeating himself, paranoid and had serious signs of complex physical and psychological problems.

 

[jamba]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

May 11 Update

Michael Bush Deposition

Michael Bush is one of the witnesses that is late added by Jacksons. AEG wants to depose Michael Bush before he testifies. IT's not clear if Jacksons actually plan to call him to stand.

Conrad Murray police interview

Jacksons and AEG is arguing over Murray's interview with the police on June 27 2009. (This is the interview that was shown during the criminal trial).

AEG wants to use the interview to show that Murray said Michael asked him to be on his team, and Murray believed that he was the employee of Michael Jackson. AEG says this will show Murray's state of mind. AEG says Murray's state of mind can show that AEG and Murray never entered into a contract and it rebuts that Murray had conflict of interest or divided loyalties.

AEG points out that Jackson experts use other parts of the interview (that Murray gave Michael propofol for 6 weeks, Murray talked with AEG people at the hospital and how Detective Martinez learned 3 bags of Propofol from Murray and so on) but oppose AEG using this part of the interview. AEG calls it unfair.


AEG states statements that show state of mind, emotion, physical sensation, intent, plan, motive is admissible when they are used to show the person's state of mind and and explore or prove act of conduct of that person.

Jacksons respond to this calling Murray's interview inadmissible hearsay. Jacksons also argue that Murray's belief that he was MJ's employee is irrelevant and whether Murray was employed or independent contractor of Michael or AEG needs to be determined on the basis of several objective factors. Jacksons also ask Murray's statement about employment to be excluded because it can mislead the jury. Overall Jacksons argue that it's the jury that should determine whether Murray was hired by AEG or Michael.

AEG responds pointing out Jacksons arguing Murray's state of mind being irrelevant is outrageous. AEG argues that Murray's statements aren't hearsay because they won't be offered as truth , they will be just offered as evidence.

AEG states that they don't plan to use the statements to argue or prove that Murray was Michael's employee. They say that the statement shows that Murray did not consider himself to be contractually bound to AEG Live. Similarly AEG argues Murray's subjective belief as who he was actually working for is relevant to determine whether in fact Murray could have felt the pressure claimed by Jacksons. AEG argues Murray could not have felt pressure from a conflict he did not know existed. AEG states Murray's statement shows Murray did not believe he was in the service of AEG Live at the time he treated Michael, is admissible to show his state of mind.

(Note: These last set of documents also again reference that "Murray was at most an independent contractor is the law of the case")

inadmissible hearsay--why isn't a police interview admissible??--CM even had a lawyer present.

How come KF can say that Bush told her he could see MJ's heartbeat and yet that was NOT inadmissible hearsay??

 

[jamba]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Jacksons also ask Murray's statement about employment to be excluded because it can mislead the jury. Overall Jacksons argue that it's the jury that should determine whether Murray was hired by AEG or Michael.

Certainly would not want to mislead the jury with evidence, now would we? Yes, the jury should decided on the basis of what Jackson lawyers want them to hear. This is incredible BS.