Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Big Apple2]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I think it was fear of not touring with Michael that prevented her from seeking help.

Oh for sure, homegirl was protecting her paycheck. She probably was SO happy to be back in Michael's good graces. She wasn't going to rain on that parade.

She likes to point her finger and this one and that one, but she is no better, in my opinion.

She's all up in Randy Jackson's hip pocket now, but why didn't she reach out to him when she saw how things were going (how things were going in HER opinion, of course).

On a side note: I remember when Michael first died, and her Facebook page was on fire. She was spreading Michael's business in ever direction, and a lot of it was not nice. She was thrilled at all of the attention some in the fan community were showering on her, which only made her stories get more vivid and more "colorful," in my opinion. (And when I say "colorful," I mean NOT totally truthful.)

 

[Bubs]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I do too, I really wasn't in the mood yesterday to read how jokey they were being and getting the fans shouting out, it's not a f*cking pantomime! Sorry, I'm really not dealing with it all very well atm.

Interactive trial. Audience can participate too:doh:

 

[Bubs]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

IMO, AEG is going for the manipulative drug addict story, hiding stuff to most people, even hiding stuff from his 45 doctors. They refuse to stipulate that Murray killed Michael.
Katherine"s side would benefit from taking the victim's side IMO. We'll see what they do.

Katherine's side is trying to paint a picture that Michael was like this, but on drugs:

 

[ivy]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Up to this point Jacksons are doing a good job of showing that there was a problem , several people warned AEG and (according to them) not enough was done. The last 2 witnesses were effective in this.

However I'm not sure if this other tour events are really helping Katherine. They are showing other doctors and other promoters are also doing the same thing. Keeping Michael in a "balance", with drugs enough to mask his pain but not make in not function, forcing him to stage and so on. It makes it sound like Michael could have died anytime, under treatment of any doctor on any tour.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

However I'm not sure if this other tour events are really helping Katherine. They are showing other doctors and other promoters are also doing the same thing. Keeping Michael in a "balance", with drugs enough to mask his pain but not make in not function, forcing him to stage and so on. It makes it sound like Michael could have died anytime, under treatment of any doctor on any tour.

Yep, that's exactly what I was saying earlier.

In my opinion, it also "may" give credence to those who have shown sympathy to Murray.

It's a very tight rope they're walking.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Katherine's side is trying to paint a picture that Michael was like this, but on drugs:

IMO, this is exactly how Katherine views Michael. A child. No wait, HER child.
Which is why I can understand she is fighting, she wants justice for her baby.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

She wants 40 billion for her other kids. and if in the process mj is called a raving druggie with every parasite going crawling out from under their rocks to sell stories then its a price worth paying to make sure the rest of the family have money when shes dead. if she wanted justice she would have made sure that man that actually killed him. think his name is murray will pay for the rest of his life. but i guess seeing as he has no money she isnt intrested in stopping him from cashing in and trashing her beloved son in the process

bottom line if murray had money this lawsuit and the desecration of whats left of mjs reputation wouldnt be happening.but the family as a whole is more important so once again mj is sacrificed and thrown under a bus

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

She wants 40 billion for her other kids. and if in the process mj is called a raving druggie with every parasite going crawling out from under their rocks to sell stories then its a price worth paying to make sure the rest of the family have money when shes dead. if she wanted justice she would have made sure than man that actually killed him. think his name is murray will pay for the rest of his life. but i guess seeing as he has no money shes she isnt intrested in stopping him from cashing in and trashing her beloved son in the process

If AEG company was not a rich company and Murray was a billionaire, the Jack$on$ would sue Murray not AEG. That's mean a lot, THEY JUST WANT MONEY AND THEY WILL DO ANYTHING FOR MONEY.

They don't care about Mike or justice, THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT MONEY.

Katherine said it, " it's because of financial reasons,Murray doesn't have money "

 

[Bubs]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

IMO, this is exactly how Katherine views Michael. A child. No wait, HER child.
Which is why I can understand she is fighting, she wants justice for her baby.

Do you think this is about justice, because I don't. This about $ 40 billion so she can feed other cubs, never mind Michael.
If it was about justice, CM name would have been on the top of the lawsuit and they would have taken him to the cleaners by taking restitution. There are tons of people in Michael's life that by their own way participated on Michael's death, but CM is the guilty of killing him and he should have been punished more severly.

Her child? Michael was 50 years old man and capable making his own decisions.
Since Michael was old enough, the whole family has seen him as money making machine, not sibling or son, so Katherine viewing him as baby is a bit reach. She was the one who told to boys when they were ready to go on the road that their "job" is like any other job and they have to do best their can, as per her own words.

They are not any better than Karen F on stand accusing everyone else not doing enough for Michael.


Btw, she saw Michael a week and half before he died, and as per KF testimony Michael was so thin already. Why didn't she tell her "child": son, you have to postpone or cancel this concert and go to hospital for health check or at least something? She did nothing like anyone else, but those other people have to pay for something that she too is guilty of.
By this lawsuit she is saying that everyone else should have looked after her "baby" more than herself did?

She also said when Joe told to go to live with Michael for a while that she didn't want to invade his privacy. Note, Joe also said that Michae looked frail.
I know the real reason behind Joe's suggestion, but if she doesn't want to invade her own son's privacy, why she is expecting someone else to take control of Michael life and put him in to hospital? She was his mother and she was the only one in the family that Michael allowed to come to see him. Why didn't she talk to him?



Sorry for long rant but I'm absolutely devasted and heart broken of all what has been happening and said recently

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

IMO, this is exactly how Katherine views Michael. A child. No wait, HER child.
Which is why I can understand she is fighting, she wants justice for her baby.

Yeah, but Mother ALSO had an opportunity to help "HER child." I mean, she said that she had complete access to Michael. She could come and go as she pleased. She didn't need to make an appointment, could just show up unannounced.

Ms. Faye just testified that Michael was very thin. Did Mother not see how thin "HER child" was, or was she too busy trying to figure out a way for her husband, his pal, and the remaining J-5 members to all be a part of those O2 dates and/or the AllGood Entertainment Family Reunion Concert?

Because as we all know, it's never about Michael Jackson the person, it's always about the family as a whole.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Yeah, but Mother ALSO had an opportunity to help "HER child." I mean, she said that she had complete access to Michael. She could come and go as she pleased. She didn't need to make an appointment, could just show up unannounced.

Ms. Faye just testified that Michael was very thin. Did Mother not see how thin "HER child" was, or was she too busy trying to figure out a way for her husband, his pal, and the remaining J-5 members to all be a part of those O2 dates and/or the AllGood Entertainment Family Reunion Concert?

Because as we all know, it's never about Michael Jackson the person, it's always about the family as a whole.

Do you think this is about justice, because I don't. This about $ 40 billion so she can feed other cubs, never mind Michael.
If it was about justice, CM name would have been on the top of the lawsuit and they would have taken him to the cleaners by taking restitution. There are tons of people in Michael's life that by their own way participated on Michael's death, but CM is the guilty of killing him and he should have been punished more severly.

Her child? Michael was 50 years old man and capable making his own decisions.
Since Michael was old enough, the whole family has seen him as money making machine, not sibling or son, so Katherine viewing him as baby is a bit reach. She was the one who told to boys when they were ready to go on the road that their "job" is like any other job and they have to do best their can, as per her own words.

They are not any better than Karen F on stand accusing everyone else not doing enough for Michael.


Btw, she saw Michael a week and half before he died, and as per KF testimony Michael was so thin already. Why didn't she tell her "child": son, you have to postpone or cancel this concert and go to hospital for health check or at least something? She did nothing like anyone else, but those other people have to pay for something that she too is guilty of.
By this lawsuit she is saying that everyone else should have looked after her "baby" more than herself did?

She also said when Joe told to go to live with Michael for a while that she didn't want to invade his privacy. Note, Joe also said that Michae looked frail.
I know the real reason behind Joe's suggestion, but if she doesn't want to invade her own son's privacy, why she is expecting someone else to take control of Michael life and put him in to hospital? She was his mother and she was the only one in the family that Michael allowed to come to see him. Why didn't she talk to him?



Sorry for long rant but I'm absolutely devasted and heart broken of all what has been happening and said recently

I get what you guys are saying, but I believe Katherine didn't have as much influence as you may think.
Sure, maybe she should have told Michael to not do the shows, but would he have listened really?

Katherine as a mother, only knew what Michael wanted her to know and apart from advising him as much as she could, what else could she do? She is an elderly woman, and the yes-men around Michael were too many.

Anyway, maybe my view is naive, but I truly believe that Katherine is fighting because it's a mother's right to do so. I'm not saying I agree with her, or with this lawsuit, but this is my view on this.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I get what you guys are saying, but I believe Katherine didn't have as much influence as you may think.
Sure, maybe she should have told Michael to not do the shows, but would he have listened really?

Katherine as a mother, only knew what Michael wanted her to know and apart from advising him as much as she could, what else could she do? She is an elderly woman, and the yes-men around Michael were too many.

Anyway, maybe my view is naive, but I truly believe that Katherine is fighting because it's a mother's right to do so. I'm not saying I agree with her, or with this lawsuit, but this is my view on this.

It's cool, you're just expressing your personal opinion. Although I don't agree, you're still entitled to your opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

If Mother, whom he put on a pedestal could not tell Michael what to do, what makes you think an executive at AEG (or anywhere else for that matter) could make Michael Jackson do anything he didn't want to do.

Case in point, when they had that meeting, Michael told them all "I know you're worried, but I'm fine." Ortega made a suggestion about the possibility of Michael seeing a specialist. Now Ortega could make suggestions until he was blue in the face, that doesn't mean Michael would have taken heed to said suggestions. You know what I mean.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

It's cool, you're just expressing your personal opinion. Although I don't agree, you're still entitled to your opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

If Mother, whom he put on a pedestal could not tell him what to do, what makes you think an executive at AEG (or anywhere else for that matter) could make Michael Jackson do anything he didn't want to do.

Case in point, when they had that meeting, Michael told them all "I know you're worried, but I'm fine." Ortega made a suggestion about the possibility of Michael seeing a specialist. Now Ortega could make suggestions until he was blue in the face, that doesn't mean Michael would have taken heed to said suggestions. You know what I mean.

I understand what you are saying, but I think there was so much Katherine didn't know.
Same with us, there were many things WE didn't know while at times we knew more than Katherine.
We only learned of so many things AFTER Michael died, we had no clue about the propofol used to help him sleep for example. I am sure Katherine didn't know this either. So what could she have done, really.

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Let's speak the truth here, only 2 people knew what Mike and Murray were doing the night in his bedroom, and it's Mike and Murray. Murray killed Mike. The end.

I'm not a fan of AEG, but they are not responsable for what Mike was doing at night in his house. Sadly Mike knew the risks and he still asked for Propofol. Murray just saw his very good salary so he did the worst.

This trial is just to know if AEG hired Murray and knew about Propofol, and no they didn't know. We all knew about pain killers Mike used sometimes for MEDICAL REASONS, so of course AEG knew about his rehab in 93, but did they know about Propofol? No. Nobody knew except 2 people, Mike and Murray.

 

[Bubs]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^ Dutchie
If you see you child sick and weak, what do you do?
Do you take care of it or do you expect someone else to take care of it?

When you see your child sick or something wrong, your instics will kick in and you do what is nessessary to help you child.


I would loved to agree with you but unfortunately as someone said it, if CM had money, Katherine would have sued him, not AEG. That to me is not fighting for justice, you cannot change the guilty part for someone who has more money.

We only learned of so many things AFTER Michael died, we had no clue about the propofol used to help him sleep for example. I am sure Katherine didn't know this either. So what could she have done, really.

She knew about propofol as per her deposition.

 

[Dutchie]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^ Dutchie
If you see you child sick and weak, what do you do?
Do you take care of it or do you expect someone else to take care of it?

When you see your child sick or something wrong, your instics will kick in and you do what is nessessary to help you child.


I would loved to agree with you but unfortunately as someone said it, if CM had money, Katherine would have sued him, not AEG. That to me is not fighting for justice, you cannot change the guilty part for someone who has more money.




She knew about propofol as per her deposition.

Sorry, I didn't know it was in her deposition.

I'll butt out of this discussion, I thought I could deal with it but I can't. I don't have the strength to keep up to date with the statements and to properly explain my views on this. Sorry and thanks for replying.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Sadly Mike knew the risks and he still asked for Propofol.

Yes, I often think of Nurse Lee's testimony from Murray's trial, wherein she discussed her concerns about the use of Propofol in a home setting and for using it to combat sleeping issues. She didn't like it and she said as much. Only problem, I guess, is that Michael trusted Murray more then he trusted Nurse Lee.

If she makes it to the witness stand, her testimony will be very interesting, to say the least.

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Yes, I often think of Nurse Lee's testimony from Murray's trial, wherein she discussed her concerns about the use of Propofol in a home setting and for using it to combat sleeping issues. She didn't like it and she said as much. Only problem, I guess, is that Michael trusted Murray more then he trusted Nurse Lee.

If she makes it to the witness stand, her testimony will be very interesting, to say the least.

It will be interesting but she already spoke during the trial of the killer. The Jack$on$ knew about the pain killers,like everybody, but Propofol at night? No, they didn't know. They are lying just to win their millions.

Today it's Karen Fake cross examination, gonna be very interesting, only 2 questions AEG's lawyers need to ask her : Who hired you? ----> MJ, who paid your salary?----> AEG.

That's exactly like for Murray, who hired Murray? ----> MJ, who paid his salary?----> AEG.

Just with that we have the answer jury need to know, who hired Murray? And it's MJ,like we all know.

 

[LastTear]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I know propoful was mentioned in her deposition but is it 100% positive she knew about it before Michael died?

 

[gerryevans]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I'm just struck by the inhumanity of Conrad Murray as I catch up on the testimonies. Michael had started talking gibberish to Sankey, etc. and was deteriorating before Murray's eyes, and he still pumped him with propofol and drugs. I think a part of him hated MJ, and he had the same jealousy of him that so many had. He undoubtedly loved having MJ depended on him, and wanted the cash, but I believe he was enjoying seeing the great Michael Jackson physically and mentally declining before him.

Just being a decent human being, not even a doctor, you'd think he'd have sincerely tried to help him. But instead he just continued with his "treatment". He truly should rot in hell in life and death.


ETA: And never ever should be allowed to practice anywhere EVER again.

 

[goldiee]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I don't understand what was the laughing about in court?

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I'm just struck by the inhumanity of Conrad Murray as I catch up on the testimonies. Michael had started talking gibberish to Sankey, etc. and was deteriorating before Murray's eyes, and he still pumped him with propofol and drugs. I think a part of him hated MJ, and he had the same jealousy of him that so many had. He undoubtedly loved having MJ depended on him, and wanted the cash, but I believe he was enjoying seeing the great Michael Jackson physically and mentally declining before him.

Just being a decent human being, not even a doctor, you'd think he'd have sincerely tried to help him. But instead he just continued with his "treatment". He truly should rot in hell in life and death.


ETA: And never ever should be allowed to practice anywhere EVER again.

Co-sign.

Sometimes I wonder if Michael was going to bring Conrad Murray with him at all. Murray some how felt that "vibe" also, and was purposely making sure that Michael would be dependent upon him - and no one else.

I mean, we all know about the contract not being fully signed by all parties, but there's also the fact that Murray still hadn't secured the necessary documentation to practice medicine in London. I don't know how long it takes to secure those types of papers, but in my opinion, that should all have been done in advance. I'm not sure, but I don't even think Murray's lodgings had been secured yet. Bottom line, there was a lot of things yet to do, before Murray made it across the water.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

As mj said to her. My drs told me its fine aslong as im monitered. which is true. mj wasnt to know what murray was gonna do if he did it would have never had happened. mj wanted to sleep i cant blame him for that and because of the shows and other things didnt work i guess he felt he had no choice and trusted his dr. it was a vicious circle. i guess IF he had used it before and everything was ok then why wouldnt it be this time. of course not knowing what a quack he was

Yes, I often think of Nurse Lee's testimony from Murray's trial, wherein she discussed her concerns about the use of Propofol in a home setting and for using it to combat sleeping issues. She didn't like it and she said as much. Only problem, I guess, is that Michael trusted Murray more then he trusted Nurse Lee.

If she makes it to the witness stand, her testimony will be very interesting, to say the least.

 

[qbee]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The testimonies so far of what Michael was going through don't portray AEG as being concerned or sympathetic enough over his health issues. I can see why many around him were concerned. But even so he Michael wasn't dying. This may play on the jurors sympathy but it still doesn't show AEG hired Murray or was responsible for his actions on June 25th. AEG didn't cause his health or mental issues or his inability to rehearse as scheduled. But they certainly could have been more sympathetic and mindful of his needs. They had no way of knowing what was going on behind closed doors that was contributing to Michael's state of mind. It wasn't till the last week and the ONE Day when MJ showed noticeable health issues that everyone became concerned.

Michael wanted the tour to go on according to Kenny Ortega and was afraid it would be cancelled so it wasn't AEG was pushing him to do the tour. But I'm sure they were pushing him to do the work it takes to get the show ready. Michael declined very quickly that last week, so I don't think anyone realised the seriousness of his state until then. Thats is when the nurse said MJ called being hot and cold. That is also when the Dancer and karen voiced their concerns. I don't think that state of mind was ongoing. That is also when AEG and kenny paid a visit to MJ and Murray. From emails and and conversations made public. I think they really felt Murray was the one that would help Michael regain his strength and mindset before the tour began. Michael showed great improvement after that visit. I believe if Michael continued to show further decline they would have done more. but they were not afforded that option. Murray killed him.

IMO This trial is not serving any justice for Michael. In much of the testimony he is being portrayed and a mindless addict and pushover who had no control over anything... and that is by the people supposedly there to bring him justice. I can't support either side here - Michael will not receive any justice in this case. He is being drug through the mud and it will continue to the end... When someone other than Michael comes out a winner. Yay ...

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^^ That's the thing, AEG was not the nanny for Mike, they were the company who signed a very good contract with Mike, but what Mike did in private, was the problem of Mike,and Murray sadly.

Did Karen Faye started her cross examination ?

 

[Bubs]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Yes, I often think of Nurse Lee's testimony from Murray's trial, wherein she discussed her concerns about the use of Propofol in a home setting and for using it to combat sleeping issues. She didn't like it and she said as much. Only problem, I guess, is that Michael trusted Murray more then he trusted Nurse Lee.

If she makes it to the witness stand, her testimony will be very interesting, to say the least.

Nurse Lee testified that MJ said:
as long as doctor is looking after me I'll be fine (or something similar) while they talked about propofol,
and Karen said:
"Michael always believed that a doctor had his best interest at heart,"

I think in his eyes, no doctor can do wrong:-(

The testimonies so far of what Michael was going through don't portray AEG as being concerned or sympathetic enough over his health issues. I can see why many around him were concerned. But even so he Michael wasn't dying. This may play on the jurors sympathy but it still doesn't show AEG hired Murray or was responsible for his actions on June 25th. AEG didn't cause his health or mental issues or his inability to rehearse as scheduled. But they certainly could have been more sympathetic and mindful of his needs. They had no way of knowing what was going on behind closed doors that was contributing to Michael's state of mind. It wasn't till the last week and the ONE Day when MJ showed noticeable health issues that everyone became concerned.

So far we have heard only one side and it is mostly what they didn't do, and it is plaintiffs job to paint defendands in worst possible light as possible.
Once we get to the other side testimonies, we'll get a bigger picture what was done and what wasn't. So far, the picture that I have of the trial is like Michael being a dancing and singing skeleton, and big bad AEG were shouting at him to sind louder and dance better

 

[LastTear]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Alan Duke ?@AlanDukeCNN1m
AEG lawyer actually objected to another AEG lawyer's questioning of Karen Faye in Jackson v AEG trial.

 

[Paris78]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Karen Faye@wingheart3h

Another difficult day. Thank you for all the love and support. Michael's fans are forever on his side and the
side of Truth...LET'S DANCE ?

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

She already finished her cross examination ?

 

[LastTear]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts1m
It was Kenny Ortega who came to her, hugged her and told her MJ had died. She said she became weak in the knees

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts1m
Faye said she prepared MJ's body for the family to see him after he died.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts48s
She was asked to work on the "This is It" film touching up MJ in the footage. She refused. She thought that would be a lii and couldn't