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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Bubs said:
I think its their tactic for this trial as they are accused hiring and training CM?
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If they're trying to say that murray didn't have anything to do with mj's death as a tactic, it suggests to me that their claims that they didn't hire and train murray are far weaker than i thought, but that's just me.

I go back to their proposed verdict form as it is an indication what way they are going to proceed with this trial
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Well i've had a good look at it and can't find murray's name anywhere on it.

About bolded part. Do you think AEG pays to CM to not to say anything? Isn't that kind of conspiracy stuff now that you wrote earlier?
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I haven't gone over to the dark side, lol. I was just speculating, murray and his lawyer just seem to be enjoying their little moment of power with suggesting that murray's testimony cd prove dynamite for one side of the other. I mean he could come up with claims of being heavily supervised and pressured by phillips in those meetings at carolwood, or cd say that phillips never told him to do anything re mj. Both sides would be keen to know what his testimony might be, if he testifies at all, so yeah, i can imagine there might be implied 'favours' from either side really to encourage murray not to sink their case (not payment, just maybe aeg suggesting the self-injection theory). I read somewhere that the jackson lawyers wanted to see the prison logs to see if aeg lawyers were visiting murray in prison, and the jackson lawyer being all het up about murray's lawyer sitting with aeg or something - it suggests the jackson side fear there might be some type of collusion. This is just me speculating though.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Sounds like Faye and Panish are having a gay ole time, I have lost my sense of humour atm.

So no further cross of Sankey?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

perhaps media did not report the cross as what she said on direct was more interesting
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^^^ Oh ok. That's a shame we don't get to hear the other side, hard to form an opinion without the whole picture.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

so that's it?...that's the end of her testimony?...
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Anthony McCartney @mccartneyAP
.@Ivy_4MJ She conceded she never had a lengthy conversation with Jackson, but felt very close to him and could tell he'd changed over time.

Anthony McCartney @mccartneyAP
Yes. They questioned how close she really was to Jackson. RT @Ivy_4MJ: @mccartneyAP Did AEG cross examine Alif Sankey yesterday?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

bouee said:
Michael tried to avoid medication for 3 months with Nurse Lee, what does that tell you ? He specifically asked for propofol, not benzos, or not a vague medicine that would help him sleep, he specifically asked for propofol, why ? Was he aware that Murray was using strong addictive benzos instead of / with propofol ? I don't know, but it raises questions.
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It is not so difficult to find the answer to the question 'why'. It's quite simple. That's because of side effects of benzodiazepines - drowsiness in particular - with which no one can performe. No surprise if Michael chose other methods such as herbal tea or propofol. These two are extremly different, but in terms of short-term side effects, they were in the same category, at least to Michael. Both meet the needs of Michael. Unfortunately, the first was not working for him.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^That's all they asked her on cross? If so, their lawyer ain't very good IMO. They could've done so much more on cross, like establishing that the "episode" happened just once and that they did reacted to it, etc. I'm sure they will mention it later with other witnesses, but it's still a missed opportunity to hammer it to the jury.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Today's testimony seems as though it was a big party in court with every one having a good time, although Karen cried throughout. It seems Rowe wanted her to inject Michael and she did not. An executive in AEG got a doctor to treat Michael during the dangerous tour. I guess Karen is implying he got a dr to treat Micahel with drugs and Michael got addicted? This is the first time I learn she was there to hydrate him. I thought she was only his "hairdresser" according to Michael. Then she acts as though she knows him so well, then claims they did not have long conversations. I don't know....

During the trial she washed his hair, they prayed, listened to classical music, & the 3 stooges. Now I remember the judge told TMez to ask his client not to drink so much water, because Michael was asking to go to the bathroom a lot. Now Karen states Michael lost weight because he did not eat or drink because he did not want to have to go to the bathroom because a guard would take him & he was shy. It seems more likely to me that the stress of the trial, being in the public view & being labeled a pedo--all that shame & stress, made it difficult for him to have an appetite, eat, & sleep. Oh well let's see what AEG has to say about the executive who brought in that dr.

Another point, that letter from the hospital when Michael was being discharged after the burn, it reads as though everything was OK; he was healing very rapidly; he did not have to stay long; & he was referred to out patient. Now from Panish statement and some from Karen it appears this burn was a big pain. Now are they talking about the 80s, or in the 90's when his scalp was reopened & it was very painful & he needed drugs for pain. I cannot understand this disconnect between the letter and what they claim about the burn in court.

Latecia I remember that when we saw what Muarry was giving Michael in 09 some wondered if Muarry was not trying to make Michael addicted to the benzos, so that Michael would really need him. No one knows for sure, but they couldn't understand why these strong drugs were being used by Muarry to make Michael sleep.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Petrarose said:
Then she acts as though she knows him so well, then claims they did not have long conversations. I don't know....D
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This is from the Sankey-testomony, Ivys post 877
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Karen claims the Dangerous tour doctor tried to choke her. Sorry, but I find this hard to believe........
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Annita said:
This is from the Sankey-testomony, Ivys post 877
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Oh thank you. You know I also think Karen did not have long conversations with Michael either, because he claimed his "hairdresser does not know anything about him.

Serendipity^^It would be interesting if the dangerous tour dr will be on the witness stand then we can hear the full story.

Amazing how these female witnesses were such heroes like Joan of Arc, trying to save Michael & no one listened.
 
It seems to me that these women are embellishing their concern as well as their relationship to Michael so they appear more important than they really were. Kenny Ortega said in his e-mail that as far as he could see there was no one taking charge of MJ. He said he had four bodyguards outside his door and no one was even bringing him a hot cup of tea while he was sick and shivering. Where were Karen and Sankey since they claim to be MJ’s wellness police?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Petrarose said:
Today's testimony seems as though it was a big party in court with every one having a good time, although Karen cried throughout. It seems Rowe wanted her to inject Michael and she did not. An executive in AEG got a doctor to treat Michael during the dangerous tour. I guess Karen is implying he got a dr to treat Micahel with drugs and Michael got addicted? This is the first time I learn she was there to hydrate him. I thought she was only his "hairdresser" according to Michael. Then she acts as though she knows him so well, then claims they did not have long conversations. I don't know....

During the trial she washed his hair, they prayed, listened to classical music, & the 3 stooges. Now I remember the judge told TMez to ask his client not to drink so much water, because Michael was asking to go to the bathroom a lot. Now Karen states Michael lost weight because he did not eat or drink because he did not want to have to go to the bathroom because a guard would take him & he was shy. It seems more likely to me that the stress of the trial, being in the public view & being labeled a pedo--all that shame & stress, made it difficult for him to have an appetite, eat, & sleep. Oh well let's see what AEG has to say about the executive who brought in that dr.

Another point, that letter from the hospital when Michael was being discharged after the burn, it reads as though everything was OK; he was healing very rapidly; he did not have to stay long; & he was referred to out patient. Now from Panish statement and some from Karen it appears this burn was a big pain. Now are they talking about the 80s, or in the 90's when his scalp was reopened & it was very painful & he needed drugs for pain. I cannot understand this disconnect between the letter and what they claim about the burn in court.

Latecia I remember that when we saw what Muarry was giving Michael in 09 some wondered if Muarry was not trying to make Michael addicted to the benzos, so that Michael would really need him. No one knows for sure, but they couldn't understand why these strong drugs were being used by Muarry to make Michael sleep.
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About going to the bathroom a lot during the trial, I am wondering if MJ had a prostate problem at that time, as he apparently had in 09 (he was taking Flomax) and maybe that affected his going to the bathroom--that he had trouble actually making it happen so to speak due to the prostate issues. Murray said he took forever to pee. I read a post by someone who knew more about prostate issues than I do. They apparently are very serious and the person thought a lot of MJ's physical issues may have been related to the undertreated prostate issues. Just a thought that he asked to go to the bathroom during the trial but when he got there, nada.

Re the burn, I though it was the reconstruction efforts that were to make the bald spot smaller, make the hair grow back, deal with the scarring, these were the painful procedures. Like the balloon under the scalp, that then got cut away and rather horrible procedures like that. These procedures to 'fix the prblem' were so painful that he started with the p.k.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Well, it seems we will never know if "Dr. Forecast" was brought per Michael's request or if it was Paul's decision.

"A makeup artist testified Friday that before a concert in Bangkok, Michael Jackson was having a hard time walking, seemed to be in a daze and stumbled over a potted tree in his dressing room before finally being led on stage to perform."

If he was dazed how did he get to perform? I don't know about the effects of those medications but it doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe someone can explain it.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Petrarose said:
Today's testimony seems as though it was a big party in court with every one having a good time, although Karen cried throughout. It seems Rowe wanted her to inject Michael and she did not. An executive in AEG got a doctor to treat Michael during the dangerous tour. I guess Karen is implying he got a dr to treat Micahel with drugs and Michael got addicted? This is the first time I learn she was there to hydrate him. I thought she was only his "hairdresser" according to Michael. Then she acts as though she knows him so well, then claims they did not have long conversations. I don't know....

During the trial she washed his hair, they prayed, listened to classical music, & the 3 stooges. Now I remember the judge told TMez to ask his client not to drink so much water, because Michael was asking to go to the bathroom a lot. Now Karen states Michael lost weight because he did not eat or drink because he did not want to have to go to the bathroom because a guard would take him & he was shy. It seems more likely to me that the stress of the trial, being in the public view & being labeled a pedo--all that shame & stress, made it difficult for him to have an appetite, eat, & sleep. Oh well let's see what AEG has to say about the executive who brought in that dr.

Another point, that letter from the hospital when Michael was being discharged after the burn, it reads as though everything was OK; he was healing very rapidly; he did not have to stay long; & he was referred to out patient. Now from Panish statement and some from Karen it appears this burn was a big pain. Now are they talking about the 80s, or in the 90's when his scalp was reopened & it was very painful & he needed drugs for pain. I cannot understand this disconnect between the letter and what they claim about the burn in court.
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It was The dancer that stated she didn't have long discussions with MJ not KF ..

Michael burn was healing well but still very painful and that one letter was only part of the files I saved when that place was trying to auction them off. There were other documents. There were gruesome pics of the burn stated to be palm sized and pics the of first reconstructive surgery performed where they had to sliced open his head remove middle tissue stretch the skin and sew it back together so the bald patch was smaller. He went through a lot of gruesome pain. They did other reconstructive procedures after that as well. So that part was right and showed MJ needed pain meds.

SO Michael needed pain meds for PAIN .. but KF didn't want to administer them. So MJ aquired a Dr to do that .. I don't know why it has to be so sinister, like it was wrong for him to take pain meds for a valid reasons (that she already stated). Also If MJ wasn't able to perform he would have told the Dr. I cant see a DR would force MJ to go on stage stumbling and groggy. Last time KF told that story I think she said it was one of the producers of the show that choked her for some reason.. ( I believe she was let go , fired for a time over what ever happened) I'll have to find it. Also if Michael was so groggy and stumbling around like she said how was he able to perform the whole concert without stumbling around.

She wrote in her blog about another altercation she supposedly had with one of MJs doctors at the 30th Anniversary concert .. according to her she went into MJs dressing room all alone rescued him from the Dr.. she kicked the DR out of his room and spent a couple hours trying to sober MJ up (walking him up and down ) and giving him coffee to try and wake him up from whatever meds he was given so he could perform. Frank's book stated the DR door was locked and he had to get a Key to open it to wake up Michael, because they were knocking at the the door and MJ didn't answer because he was still out from some medications he took. But Frank didn't mention anything about an altercation with any Dr. and didn't even mention karen being there at that time. Did Karen mention that event in court??? Seems pretty significant. But maybe not, because AEG wasn't part of that Event, it happened under the watch of Jackson family friend, David Gest who produced that show?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Jamba yes I read about the prostate issue too, he had the meds in his house. However the thing was he was going to the bathroom, so how all of a sudden Karen said he did not want to go because he had to go with a security and he was shy. The fact remains he was asking to go a lot & was not letting shyness get in his way of going, so how does shyness now become his reason for not eating & drinking.

I also agree with you about the reconstruction period, but that is not clear in the evidence. We hear about the Pepsi burn as though this is the 80's, so that the jury think he had these issues since the 80's which of course ties into Panish opening statement about Michael being an addict since the Pepsi burn. This trial so far is a shame. You almost feel like going in there & shouting out the correct information while the person is giving their testimony.

I also notice the tendency of Panish to show a lot of videos, which waste a lot of time, & turn the proceedings into a sort of carnival atmosphere. Now I know why AEG was objecting that the family had too many videos/slides. All these antics have no bearing on the negligent hiring claim, but the judge did not agree with AEG & allowed all these exhibits. Slides about smooth, photos of Karen with Michael, videos, and on and on. Now look at the contributions of the last 2 witnesses, & I ask why couldn't these 2 women give evidence on one day for about 30 min? All the other points of their testimony was useless & padding.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Petrarose said:
Jamba yes I read about the prostate issue too, he had the meds in his house. However the thing was he was going to the bathroom, so how all of a sudden Karen said he did not want to go because he had to go with a security and he was shy. The fact remains he was asking to go a lot & was not letting shyness get in his way of going, so how does shyness now become his reason for not eating & drinking.

I also agree with you about the reconstruction period, but that is not clear in the evidence. We hear about the Pepsi burn as though this is the 80's, so that the jury think he had these issues since the 80's which of course ties into Panish opening statement about Michael being an addict since the Pepsi burn. This trial so far is a shame. You almost feel like going in there & shouting out the correct information while the person is giving their testimony.

I also notice the tendency of Panish to show a lot of videos, which waste a lot of time, & turn the proceedings into a sort of carnival atmosphere. Now I know why AEG was objecting that the family had too many videos/slides. All these antics have no bearing on the negligent hiring claim, but the judge did not agree with AEG & allowed all these exhibits. Slides about smooth, photos of Karen with Michael, videos, and on and on. Now look at the contributions of the last 2 witnesses, & I ask why couldn't these 2 women give evidence on one day for about 30 min? All the other points of their testimony was useless & padding.
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Absolutely agree re 'useless padding'--also reading the dedication to KJ on Thriller--this is not taking the charges and the $40 billion that is on the table seriously. This is a serious case of how MJ died and was AEG responsible and I don't see how KF's testimony shed much light if any on that.

The only thing valuable I got was her statement that he needed 2 days to come down from the adrenelin of a performance, which the AEG schedule did not give him. They should focus on stuff like that--the schedule--and not the 'useless padding.' No wonder the trial is supposed to go on so long. The judge is a disaster.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Aquarius said:
Well, it seems we will never know if "Dr. Forecast" was brought per Michael's request or if it was Paul's decision.

"A makeup artist testified Friday that before a concert in Bangkok, Michael Jackson was having a hard time walking, seemed to be in a daze and stumbled over a potted tree in his dressing room before finally being led on stage to perform."

If he was dazed how did he get to perform? I don't know about the effects of those medications but it doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe someone can explain it.
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He did not perform. The show was cancelled.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Michael always talked about how he could not sleep after a show because of the adrenalin, but I never heard him say it took 2 days to come down. Have you ever heard him mention that or has his former managers ever said so.

The thing with Karen's testimony is that you need another witness to corroborate what she said. Hopefully Kenny and other AEG staff will shed some light when AEG side put on the case. I always see Kenny as more trustworthy in his statements anyway.

They should have cancelled the show as soon as the allegations hit, because how could any human perform under such circumstances. I guess Michael wanted to push on & not disappoint his fans.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

ivy said:
Please do not post links to other fan sites - especially the ones that are anti-mjjc
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which sites are anti-mjjc?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

mazing how these female witnesses were such heroes like Joan of Arc, trying to save Michael & no one listened.
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I know right cant wait to hear what lisa marie has to say :rolleyes:
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

8701girl said:
I know right cant wait to hear what lisa marie has to say :rolleyes:
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Lisa is in England. I know her name is on the list, but will she really fly back to do this. The last time I saw her she was drinking in a pub.

I think I have been spoiled by the way Walgren/Chernoff & team/Pastor handled that trial. Everything was structured from point A to B. Witnesses were called in a systematic way to prove specific points in the case. There were no extraneous exhibits & foolishness. The case began with showing a crime was done, then they show evidence to back that up. Then they progressed from there will clear evidence connecting all the dots to show a man died & this man caused it, & why/how.

However, this case is a sloppy mess. Now I know why Panish firm boast settlement, because they do not know how to try a case properly. They will have the jury's minds all over the place with all these other useless information, & it may not be good when it is time to make that verdict. The jury will have to say, ok lets get back to what the allegations are again. Then they will have to throw away all the useless information in their heads & refocus themselves, and if they have people on the team who are not good at refocusing there will be a problem.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Petrarose said:
Lisa is in England. I know her name is on the list, but will she really fly back to do this. The last time I saw her she was drinking in a pub.

I think I have been spoiled by the way Walgren/Chernoff & team/Pastor handled that trial. Everything was structured from point A to B. Witnesses were called in a systematic way to prove specific points in the case. There were no extraneous exhibits & foolishness. The case began with showing a crime was done, then they show evidence to back that up. Then they progressed from there will clear evidence connecting all the dots to show a man died & this man caused it, & why/how.

However, this case is a sloppy mess. Now I know why Panish firm boast settlement, because they do not know how to try a case properly. They will have the jury's minds all over the place with all these other useless information, & it may not be good when it is time to make that verdict. The jury will have to say, ok lets get back to what the allegations are again. Then they will have to throw away all the useless information in their heads & refocus themselves, and if they have people on the team who are not good at refocusing there will be a problem.
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Well if she has been subpoenaed too think i think she has no choice she has to go
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

8701girl said:
Well if she has been subpoenaed too think i think she has no choice she has to go
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Yeah but remember they have a lot of people on the list that they simple threw in there. Look at all the Jackson nieces/nephews that are on that list. I don't think they will be called. They even have Spike. Are the Jackson members going to say my uncle was a very nice man? I guess they will use them to show Michel's character. I don't know....
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Petrarose said:
Yeah but remember they have a lot of people on the list that they simple threw in there. Look at all the Jackson nieces/nephews that are on that list. I don't think they will be called. They even have Spike. Are the Jackson members going to say my uncle was a very nice man? I guess they will use them to show Michel's character. I don't know....
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yeh i dont think spike will be called as he wasnt around mj in the last days and as for the family members....i dont trust them at all anymore so god knows what they will say
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 11m
She said MJ's skin was very dry, his eyes were dry, he was losing weight, and he kept repeating himself.

This sounds to me like dehydration--the dryness. Also being dehydrated will lead to disorientation as the electrolytes are off balance.

Do you think the women were more aware of the urgency? It seems the men were just ok, let's keep going, but the women were all saying he's going to die if he doesn't get help, so let's do something now.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

*big sigh*







I'll pretend I believe 1000% in you Karen.....
angfw5.gif
What I feel is that these people who were around Michael felt something was going on and that something was not right.... BUT no one really did anything for Michael. Everyone knew and even then all these people move on. Everyone was soooooooooooo close to Michael.... Why did not they something? A serious talk with him or anything.... WHY? That I never can understand! It's just sad.... :(


Does anyone have any idea when it is expected the end of this trial crap? I can not take anymore.
 
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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Havent Karen mentioned before that she was abruptly fired from the HIstory tour when she slapped MJs then manager? I dont remember the details on why she slapped this person. Something about she telling this person off and he didnt liked it or whatever.
 
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