Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The visits to Klein were for cosmetic procedures. They were too irregular to create an addiction to demerol. There was no painkiller whatsoever in Michael's house.

Actually Michael's bodyguard Faheem Muhammed stated in the Murray trial "there were times we would go almost every day." It was also stated in the trial that Klein's medical records showed that these visits included demerol injections. And while there weren't any painkillers found in the house they found a lot of sedatives, again as shown at the trial.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

As i said theres no evidence of any addiction to demoral. that was shown during murrays trial with none in his system or house and irregular visits with amounts given that would not cause any addiction. ontop of the fact that withdrawl occurs after eight hours.hence my original question. yet both murray and the family are running with it. birds of a feather along with those that keep pushing this claim to fit their agenda. it seems that the facts do not matter when it comes to pushing an agenda against michael
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

As i said theres no evidence of any addiction to demoral that was shown during murrays trial hence my original question. yet both murray and the family are running with it. birds of a feather along with those that keep pushing this claim to fit their agenda

Multiple visits to Klein and medical records that show the vistits were for demerol injections. Michael had a problem with demerol in my opinion. That's what the song Morphine was about.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Actually Michael's bodyguard Faheem Muhammed stated in the Murray trial "there were times we would go almost every day." It was also stated in the trial that Klein's medical records showed that these visits included demerol injections. And while there weren't any painkillers found in the house they found a lot of sedatives, again as shown at the trial.

demerol and what you call sedatives are 2 different things- opiates/benzos. As for the pills, he took less than prescribed, some of the prescriptions were 6 months old. That must be a soft addiction. The other sedatives were injectable, given by Murray.

yes Klein gave him demerol, he shouldn't have. he did not give enough to cause problems. The "addiction specialist" in CM's trial (Waldman I think) did not confirm any addiction, in spite of trying very hard.
 
StellaJackson;3819557 said:
Actually Michael's bodyguard Faheem Muhammed stated in the Murray trial "there were times we would go almost every day." It was also stated in the trial that Klein's medical records showed that these visits included demerol injections. And while there weren't any painkillers found in the house they found a lot of sedatives, again as shown at the trial.

I agree Yes there were sedatives in the home and the pills left in the bottles from date of subscription, show they were not being abused. May I ask what you think MJ would be taking sedatives for ? I also want to point out the Restylane treatments MJ was receiving were several needle injections in very sensitive areas .. That I feel warrant the use of pain killers during the procedures.

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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Faheem M's testimony:
FM states that MJ once said to him, "You must think I'm crazy for going to Dr. Klein's office so much." FM states that he didn't see MJ one way or the other, and MJ states that he was going to Klein's office because his doctors told him that he had to go to a doctor for a skin disease.

Morphine could be about Demerol (came out 97), but do you think that Michael would have survived as Demerol addict since 97 to 2009? Also what I find curious as to what kind of demerol addict he is, if he can take a breaks from his addiction for months and months, and then go back using it?
 
bouee;3819312 said:
Just a few thoughts :


- "Wohlgelernter also said he was troubled by a section of Murray’s contract that said the doctor was to “Perform the Services reasonably requested by the Producer,” which was AEG. That meant Murray was “responsible and accountable to a third party, namely AEG Live,” Wohlgelernter said, not his patient, leading to a conflict of interest. (LATimes)" If true, that could be a problem for AEG. It's probably a standard contract, and AEG probably doesn't usually sign contract with doctors. There is the word "reasonably", and personnally, given the nature of a doctor's job, I can't see what a conflict of interest would be : a doctor puts his patient first, in any circumstances. But it's a base to argue AEG pressured Murray. If AEG's lawyer only answer is that the contract was not signed by AEG, it sounds a little weak to me.
.


This is from Kathy Jorry-testimony in Murray-trial

June 23 conversation: CM had some revisions he wanted. He asked the term to be changed from September 2009 to March 2010. Start date was changed to May 1. Contract said "services requested by the producer" CM asked it to be changed to "artist".


I think it was changed in requested by artist
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Once again the EVIDENCE from the trial showed no addiction based on what was in mjs house or system. as already said but ill re state as some like to ignore the facts because of their agenda to call mj an addict. the sleeping meds that had been prescribed by metzger and murray had been under used based on the intake recommended on the bottles. so no evidence at all that mj was addicted to either demoral or the benzos based on the facts shown during the trial and the info that is available now.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

There's simply no evidence that he was addicted to anything at that time. But the Jacksons will claim that he was anyway - why leave the lack of evidence stand in the way of all those billions they are anticipating!
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Who is up today or next witness?

Never mind, found it:
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 18h
Court ended just before 4p. Back again Wednesday with Dr. Christopher Rogers from the Coroner's office and possibly one of the Dancers!

Why Rogers is back to stand?



the sleeping meds that had been prescribed by metzger and murray had been under used based on the intake recommended on the bottles. so no evidence at all that mj was addicted to either demoral or the benzos based on the facts shown during the trial and the info that is available now.

I don't know any drug addict that take under recommended amount of pills , usually they take more.:scratch:
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

This is from Kathy Jorry-testimony in Murray-trial

June 23 conversation: CM had some revisions he wanted. He asked the term to be changed from September 2009 to March 2010. Start date was changed to May 1. Contract said "services requested by the producer" CM asked it to be changed to "artist".


I think it was changed in requested by artist

Yes, you'right, I think it was, now that you mention it, I remember, thanks

Next witness : Dr Christopher (coroner), he had not finished his testimony, so he's coming back today.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Maybe im missing something but what exactly was mj addicted to when the murray was been hired and the time upto june. cause theres no evidence of any. these witnesses are ridiculous its like they are scripted

Right that is another of my big problems with the trial. Both sides make an opening statement about Michael being this addict, and before they first bring in evidence to show that he is an addict & a "current" addiction exists, they bring in witnesses giving opinions on how to deal with an addict. This is only happening because both sides are using the drug angle. If both sides were not, the opposing attorney would put in an objection for "relevancy & no foundation has been laid." Then, the judge would sustain the objection, and the lawyer would then have to make that foundation, i.e., bringing in evidence that showed Michael was a drug addict & substance abuser & needed treatment in 09. Only then could they enter the evidence from Dr. W about Muarry not being able to treat a DA & SA. However, I notice they did the right thing when they laid the foundation of Michael being dead & by whose hands & how, because they feel that is crucial to their case.

This trial is a dirty case with 2 unethical groups of people using a premise/theory to win a case, regardless of the fact of whether the premise/theory is accurate or not. It is a shame & disgrace.

It is getting tiring that theory that Michael went to Klien simply to get demerol. If he was an addict & could get someone to buy prof., why wouldn't he get someone to give him a stash of demerol rather than getting up, dressing himself, going to Klien where everyone is watching him, & get his fix? What kind of foolish addict is that. Why does he only go to klien as though Klien has the best demerol ever? I saw TII over 16 times in the cinema & you could see how his face changed and filled out in some of the scenes. Klien knew his art.

About the sedatives found in his home: Anyone who saw the trial live, or read the whole court thread knows about the timeline that Muarry gave stating what he gave Michael. He claimed he gave him those drugs to sleep & according to him when Michael would not sleep, he gave him that does of prof.

Further as was stated a million times the pills in the home were underutilized, so what raving addict would let that happen.
 
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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

This comment probably doesn't belong here but reading this thread is killing me. I just can't believe the Jackson's will not let Michael rest in peace with his dignity :(

I read about the Vegas show and am once again stunned by his brilliance. Then I come in here and see this smear campaign against Michael going on and the charge is led by his family.

Please somebody explain to me where the honor and justice for Michael is in this lawsuit! I really want to feel better about all of this so my mind is open to any logic there might be in this lawsuit. Because from where I sit, Michael's life is only the target for more public humiliation. Even in death I just want this dear man protected from ridicule and harm:cry:

IMHO this is when we should be celebrating Michael and uplifting his memory. After all he went through I think he has earned it.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^There is no honor or justice in this case. This is about money & both sides will use any means possible to win. That is because the case is not based on facts or truth. If it did, then all they had to do was bring in facts to prove it. Rather they stooped to alleged behaviors/disorders which are not proven to place doubt in the jurors minds, because they have no truth or facts to help them win this case.

Also, they left in all the witnesses they were going to use when they had ALL the allegations. The judge left them with 1 & they still have the same witness list, so all this extra foolish details will be there to cause doubt and confusion in the jurors minds.

They have Rogers stating the health of the body, & then still put on foolish Dr. W to talk about the drug addicted & substance abuse needs of Michael. The one person who could give facts to help Michael, is Rogers and Anderson & they ignore the testimonies. We are still talking about the family side here. The loving family, so wait until we get to AEG's turn to put on their case. If the loving family can do this ^ what will AEG do!!!
 
Petrarose;3819259 said:
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by somewhereinthedark
no one is pointing out that Rogers said that there were NO DRUGS-street or otherwise- in Michael's body EXCEPT what the MURDERER, Conrad Murray INJECTED into him. (...) The media seems to WANT Michael to be an "addict" and conveniently IGNORES what Rogers testified to.
We have pointed it out before after Rogers gave the same evidence in the Muarry trial. Notice that after Rogers said this that the next witness, dr W, who testified on Tuesday said according to this report: "LOS ANGELES (AP) — Michael Jackson's doctor was not qualified to treat the singer for insomnia or drug addiction and botched resuscitation efforts, an expert cardiologist testifying for the singer's mother told a jury Tuesday.

So which drug addiction are they talking about here^^? The one from the dangerous tour that came from the Pepsi burn (according to opening statements)? Then you have the various reports in the document thread all repeating this doctor's statement and talking about Michal's long term drug addiction.

It seems the so called "evidence" for the addiction is what Murray's expert, Dr. Waldman, admitted to Walgren:

Waldman (Asked by Walgren whether he knew CM was MJ’s personal physician during the last 3 months he is testyfing about): ... I really don’t pay much attention to the public arena with respect to this specific event or trial. I didn’t pay attention...
Walgren: But you previously said that you did considere what was out in the public arena in making a determination as to whether MJ was an opiate addict, correct?
Waldman: I’m referring to past history and behaviours from the 1980s, from the 1990s, that’s really what I am referring to, not April or 2009.
Walgren: Ok, when it supports your opinions you brought in outside sources, when it did not suppor your opinions you did not.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^Oh yeah I remember that dialog between the 2 during the trial, and that^^ is supposed to be their proof in a court of law? Well now we know why so many cases get to court.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

As i said theres no evidence of any addiction to demoral. that was shown during murrays trial with none in his system or house and irregular visits with amounts given that would not cause any addiction. ontop of the fact that withdrawl occurs after eight hours.hence my original question. yet both murray and the family are running with it.
Yes, Murray's expert on addiction could not explain why sometimes there were even 6 days between one visit to Klein and another, when he admitted that withdrawal happened 8 or 10 hours after, or in any case in a day. He suggested those med. records were not accurate, he did not trust them... but did not provide any proof to support his belief.

So I don't understand what kind of evidence will be given know. I'm afraid both sides will go on with the d.a. talk, just because "it was in the public arena in the 80s and 90s" as Waldman said in CM trial.

yes Klein gave him demerol, he shouldn't have. he did not give enough to cause problems. The "addiction specialist" in CM's trial (Waldman I think) did not confirm any addiction, in spite of trying very hard.

Yeah, so hard, that some of his diagrams were wrongly added and had to be deleted in the trial by prosecutor Walgren, hahah.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Re todays testimony. So we had another that worked on TII that was alarmed and sent an email to Kenny.

Btw, this is Alif Sankey. Guys if you have the This is It DVD with extra material you can see her talking there in the segment called 'Memories of Michael'.

This is what she says of Michael in the DVD... "He was passionate, passionate... he loved, loved his children and they loved him, boy they loved him".

MJAlif-1.jpg
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

This latest story from the dancer on her testimony today is just so sad. :( They just totally ignored her request for help. SMH.:no:

How can people continue to defend AEG?? I don't get it.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I don't think anyone is defending AEG I just don't support the jackson's and feel they let Murray off the hook because AEG are the ones with deep pockets.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Once again the EVIDENCE from the trial showed no addiction based on what was in mjs house or system. as already said but ill re state as some like to ignore the facts because of their agenda to call mj an addict. the sleeping meds that had been prescribed by metzger and murray had been under used based on the intake recommended on the bottles. so no evidence at all that mj was addicted to either demoral or the benzos based on the facts shown during the trial and the info that is available now.


I wanted to stay on the sidelines of this discussion, but I want to intervene now. I see too many words like "addict", "addicts", "abuse" and even "junkies" passing through this forums and I do think that we as a community has some blind spots when it comes to this topic. As a matter of fact at some point it even became forbidden to discuss this topic. Which is unfortunate, for it is an important topic and one that has been a) neglected by the fanebase, b) the complexity of this issue has been ignored by the fanbase (as a matter of fact the arguments used are ridden with stereotypes and prejudices about dependecies and addictions) and c) the complexity of addiction or dependency in general, has been completly rended impossible for the perfect picture *we* would like to have of Michael Jackson. (And yes, we should hold a mirror to ourselves here.)

For one, when you speak of "addicts" we seem to think on people hanging in the corner of the streets, while this is in fact - as many people know who deal with people with dependencies - a small percentage of all people who are depended on (prescription) drugs. There are also, what we consider, to use this layman's term, "functional addicts"; people who can function fine with drugs - even years and decades (and yes, even with Morphine) - without summizing to it. They are an artist in hiding it (no pun intended), even to their loved ones. Their use will increase however when the external pressures increase.

Secondly, dependency on drugs is partly based, as research has shown, on specific personality traits and also an inclination of dependency. Now we can all argue that MJ was not *on* drugs in 2009. But the fact is, that he was depended on drugs, quite heavily, in 1993 and as some court footage shows, in 2004/2005 re. copyrights. This personality trait doesn't dissapear overnight. As a matter of fact external pressure, as research also has shown, increases the use of drugs. This could explain the weight loss, the lack of sleep and missing rehearsals - these are text book signs of relapses.

Now I know that some of you will say, that he underused his prescribed tablets. What you forget to mention however is that the sedavites were more and less likely used through IV. Now I can tell you, that this makes benzo's a) more powerful (which makes the tables useless) and b) harder to find in the body due to the way liquid forms (which are btw more addictive and heightens dependency than tablets) distribute itself throughout the body. Therefore the underuse of tablets can actually point to an increase of IV use and therefore, indirectlty, higher dependency. (Some "junkies", which I don't consider Michael to be, but I do consider him someone with a drug dependency that was in some cases destructive, actually rather have IV drips instead of tablets.) If you can't fall asleep after many lorazepam and dormicum drips, this indicates mostly an high tolerance. This tolerance does not come overnight, in the same way that the heighten insomnia doesn't come from thin air - these go hand in hand.

Last but not least: what really bugs me about these discussions is that addiction is seen here as a personal fault. It is not. It is a serios disease and the one who suffers from it should be treated as such. His doctors should have helped him with the core of his problem and not the side-effect of his problem (insomnia). I feel that the tendency in these discussions tends to be: "well if Michael was an addict, he has himself to blame." (we also call that "blaming the victim".) Wrong. If you approach dependency as a disorder, his doctors, all of his doctors are too blame. They should have done better research. A person on dependency will, in its very nature, withhold information. Seeking a "new high" through Propofol is actually a natural development in dependency behaviour. Michael is not to blame, even here, CM is. One, for he didn't do (enough) background checks and two for misuse, ignorance and neglect in the use of propofol. In short, and I may be flamed for this, *even if* Michael was dependend on drugs and his history, insomnia, his search for a "high" and escape, the witness accounts that drip in from all sides, all seem to indicate this, he was and never be will responsible for his own death. His death is caused by propofol intoxication, but this by itself does not make Michael *not* depended. There is a huge "gray zone" here, that we neglect throughout our discussions. And I think that this is, because *we* don't want to see Michael depended on drugs. And it is unfortunate that we can't have a mature debate on this matter.

And this brings me to the core of this whole trail. If dependency is a disease and AEG was aware of his dependency, as any good employer, the welfare of their client should be utmost and first. By not doing so, AEG actually shows gross neglect. In this case I truly understand the positions of the *****ns - even though they are being fried by the fanbase. It is their brother and their son, and the people around Michael should have acted. As some tried to do, as emails show.

Ps: before you flame me, I just want to make clear that is my attempt here to open a discussion on dependency, and the many prejudices surrounding dependency, and also holding up a mirror to our *neglect* on this issue in our fanbase. (Why is this topic so sensitive?) Even if Michael was depended, and there are many signs pointing to that direction - and it is very hard to proof physiologically due to the distribution of the drugs after IV use, as is stated in the previous court case - he is and was never responsible for his death. It doesn't make him less human, only more human.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I wanted to stay on the sidelines of this discussion, but I want to intervene now. I see too many words like "addict", "addicts", "abuse" and even "junkies" passing through this forums and I do think that we as a community has some blind spots when it comes to this topic. As a matter of fact at some point it even became forbidden to discuss this topic. Which is unfortunate, for it is an important topic and one that has been a) neglected by the fanebase, b) the complexity of this issue has been ignored by the fanbase (as a matter of fact the arguments used are ridden with stereotypes and prejudices about dependecies and addictions) and c) the complexity of addiction or dependency in general, has been completly rended impossible for the perfect picture *we* would like to have of Michael Jackson. (And yes, we should hold a mirror to ourselves here.)

For one, when you speak of "addicts" we seem to think on people hanging in the corner of the streets, while this is in fact - as many people know who deal with people with dependencies - a small percentage of all people who are depended on (prescription) drugs. There are also, what we consider, to use this layman's term, "functional addicts"; people who can function fine with drugs - even years and decades (and yes, even with Morphine) - without summizing to it. They are an artist in hiding it (no pun intended), even to their loved ones. Their use will increase however when the external pressures increase.

Secondly, dependency on drugs is partly based, as research has shown, on specific personality traits and also an inclination of dependency. Now we can all argue that MJ was not *on* drugs in 2009. But the fact is, that he was depended on drugs, quite heavily, in 1993 and as some court footage shows, in 2004/2005 re. copyrights. This personality trait doesn't dissapear overnight. As a matter of fact external pressure, as research also has shown, increases the use of drugs. This could explain the weight loss, the lack of sleep and missing rehearsals - these are text book signs of relapses.

Now I know that some of you will say, that he underused his prescribed tablets. What you forget to mention however is that the sedavites were more and less likely used through IV. Now I can tell you, that this makes benzo's a) more powerful (which makes the tables useless) and b) harder to find in the body due to the way liquid forms (which are btw more addictive and heightens dependency than tablets) distribute itself throughout the body. Therefore the underuse of tablets can actually point to an increase of IV use and therefore, indirectlty, higher dependency. (Some "junkies", which I don't consider Michael to be, but I do consider him someone with a drug dependency that was in some cases destructive, actually rather have IV drips instead of tablets.) If you can't fall asleep after many lorazepam and dormicum drips, this indicates mostly an high tolerance. This tolerance does not come overnight, in the same way that the heighten insomnia doesn't come from thin air - these go hand in hand.

Last but not least: what really bugs me about these discussions is that addiction is seen here as a personal fault. It is not. It is a serios disease and the one who suffers from it should be treated as such. His doctors should have helped him with the core of his problem and not the side-effect of his problem (insomnia). I feel that the tendency in these discussions tends to be: "well if Michael was an addict, he has himself to blame." (we also call that "blaming the victim".) Wrong. If you approach dependency as a disorder, his doctors, all of his doctors are too blame. They should have done better research. A person on dependency will, in its very nature, withhold information. Seeking a "new high" through Propofol is actually a natural development in dependency behaviour. Michael is not to blame, even here, CM is. One, for he didn't do (enough) background checks and two for misuse, ignorance and neglect in the use of propofol. In short, and I may be flamed for this, *even if* Michael was dependend on drugs and his history, insomnia, his search for a "high" and escape, the witness accounts that drip in from all sides, all seem to indicate this, he was and never be will responsible for his own death. His death is caused by propofol intoxication, but this by itself does not make Michael *not* depended. There is a huge "gray zone" here, that we neglect throughout our discussions. And I think that this is, because *we* don't want to see Michael depended on drugs. And it is unfortunate that we can't have a mature debate on this matter.

And this brings me to the core of this whole trail. If dependency is a disease and AEG was aware of his dependency, as any good employer, the welfare of their client should be utmost and first. By not doing so, AEG actually shows gross neglect. In this case I truly understand the positions of the *****ns - even though they are being fried by the fanbase. It is their brother and their son, and the people around Michael should have acted. As some tried to do, as emails show.

Ps: before you flame me, I just want to make clear that is my attempt here to open a discussion on dependency, and the many prejudices surrounding dependency, and also holding up a mirror to our *neglect* on this issue in our fanbase. (Why is this topic so sensitive?) Even if Michael was depended, and there are many signs pointing to that direction - and it is very hard to proof physiologically due to the distribution of the drugs after IV use, as is stated in the previous court case - he is and was never responsible for his death. It doesn't make him less human, only more human.

Well said!! No flames from me. Only a thank you for your well thought out and informative post. Just because someone has a dependency on prescription drugs does NOT make them a bad person. Far from it.

My Aunt, who is a wonderful, full of life religious woman, is now battling a pain medication dependency due to a very painful bout of shingles she got. ANYONE of us could find ourselves in a situation one day where we too, may become dependent on them for some reason. Doesn't make any of us a bad person because of it.

Personally, I'm sick of seeing the word junkie when they describe some drug issues. It's a huge insult.
 
Since we know Michael had difficulty sleeping way before the Pepsi accident it’s more likely that Michael was sick from murray giving him Propofol nonstop for over six weeks. All of the weight loss, missed rehearsals and other symptoms can be explained by what murray was administering nightly. I wouldn’t love Michael any less if he was drug dependent I just don’t understand why it’s so important to some to make him fit into that box.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Multiple visits to Klein and medical records that show the vistits were for demerol injections. Michael had a problem with demerol in my opinion. That's what the song Morphine was about.

I don't think it's correct to say the visits were for demerol injections. He was getting botox injections - including areas around his eyes, his scalp and his groin - and demerol injections. It's possible that demerol injections were legitimately pain and not for "addiction".

As Toxicologist pointed out Demerol leaves the system in 12-16 hours and as Walgren showed during criminal trial MJ was going to Klein at 3-4 day intervals. If he was addicted to demerol, he should have been making more frequent visits IMO.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

From today's witness (I don't understand why they spent so much time looking at her past work in smooth criminal, rather than getting to facts), it seems she said Michal was dying & no one was doing something. OK now that Michael is dead we have this woman claiming Michael was dying. She tells Kenny he should be in the hospital and now she is blaming someone for not doing anything. She did not say exactly who she is blaming, I notice. Now rather than tell Kenny Michael needed to go to the hospital, as though Kenny was in charge of Michael, why didn't she tell Michael, who she was close to that he should go to the hospital? Why didn't she offer to take him? Why does she think some other person has to make him go to the hospital? What is the point of putting that action on someone else?

Does anyone know exactly how many rehearsals Michael missed?

Then she talks about the hole in his shoes. Now anyone who knows about Michael knows, according to his brother, that he wears his shoes right down to his soles. In fact, his brother said that Michael would wear the same old shoes. Once in the J5 days, Michael went to the record store in disguise, and his older brother came to the store saw him and said "Michael." Michael turned around surprised and said how do you know it is me. His brother responded that he knew him by his shoes. So I do not know what is the point of the hole in the shoes evidence, unless that had something to do with negligent hiring, Michael's death, or Michael not being in good shape.

Then she makes reference to his body not being ready. Really, you mean someone who did not tour or perform for years, went to their first rehearsals after that break & was not in shape? Oh no!! I think we better call the "in shape" police here. Of course he would not be in shape. He needed to practice, train, shape up, eat some good food, and stay away from Muarry.

And this is all that happened in one whole day in court. What a waste of money for the government. Her testimony could have been done in 30 mins, based on its value to the case.

Then, you have some family fans giving Katherine support as she entered. Good for them. Hopefully she says thank you after the trial, because after all the fans went to the Muarry trial and gave support, there was no official thank you from that dear mother.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

It is interesting that a doctor is commenting about the contract though. Here are some of Dr. W statements which he claims are red flags:

Interesting indeed. And that's a red flag to me.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Interesting indeed. And that's a red flag to me.

Ha too funny^^. I needed that.

Karen Faye is up tomorrow. We should look at that very carefully & see how she is cross-examined by AEG & if her story remains the same.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

It made me sad what the producer said. She seems to have cared for Michael. I thought the story about Paris and her candy was cute and her having pictures of Michael with her. It should be interesting with Karen tomorrow.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I feel very sorry for Kenny. I respect him because he really tried to help Michael. And I started crying when I heard that the dancer said Kenny collapsed after hearing that Michael had died.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Is it too late for the Jacksons to sue Murray for his criminal malpractice? I just heard that Travis Alexander's family is suing Jodi Arias for wrongful death. They know she has no money but the want her to quit making profits from her notoriety. She's been selling her story, interviews, and art work. Reporters were saying that the Son of Sam law has not been working, it is constantly overturned.
 
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