Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[KOPV]

I am a nutritionist, I help bodybuilders get ready for competitions. Dr oz had a buddy of mine on his show and said himself with nutrition questions it is better to ask someone that spends there life's around nutrition like bodybuilders than a Dr like him...

I've had to sit and debate with several drs about nutrition and learned first hand they don't know what they didn't study.. It's not there expertise!

Food for thought

 

[passy001]

Why ? She's a cook, she didn't pretend to deal with nutrition ?

Oh, then i must be confusing her with someone else. even so, i thought she was quite expensive for the stuff she was doing. overcharging MJ for basic meals.

 

[LastTear]

^^^^ I agree on the HR testimony.

 

[Annita]

elke hassell ‏@ElkeHassell 18h

@mccartneyAP Now what about the content from Dileo's Laptop that caused all the Drama, any news on when that will be produced?
Retweetet von Anthony McCartney

5:49 PM - 20 Aug 13 · Details
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 17h

.@ElkeHassell It was handed over to attorneys a few weeks back, but no word on whether its contents have any useful info to the case

 

[passy001]

we seem to get stuck on a topic and repeat it. It was background checks just a few days earlier, today's topic is nutrition. Interestingly not many commented on the HR testimony. so I guess it means we do all the possible discussion before the testimony happens. ehehehe

isn't that lovely?. me think it brings some fresh air to a very tense thread.

seriously, this should tell you how much we want a break from this thing. every day when i log on here, I 'm always hoping the judge will scream to both sides "stop it. go home."

 

[passy001]

elke hassell ‏@ElkeHassell 18h

@mccartneyAP Now what about the content from Dileo's Laptop that caused all the Drama, any news on when that will be produced?
Retweetet von Anthony McCartney

5:49 PM - 20 Aug 13 · Details
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 17h

.@ElkeHassell It was handed over to attorneys a few weeks back, but no word on whether its contents have any useful info to the case

we can safely assume the laptop was not that useful after all.

 

[Bubs]

So laptop wasn't smoking after all at least what was found from it didn't provide any help for plaintiffs but we will have to wait if anything from it help defense.

 

[ivy]

Dileo's laptop was a fishing expedition. They assumed there were emails that weren't given to them during discovery and deleted.

 

[ivy]

Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 3m
Gordon's deposition will continue playing after the lunch break. He's a Las Vegas plastic surgeon who performed a couple procedures on MJ.
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Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 3m
So far, the jury has heard from security guard Jeffrey Adams, who introduced Jackson and Conrad Murray, and Dr. Stephen Gordon.
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Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 4m
May have a story later today from the Jackson trial, so will have limited updates until later this afternoon.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 28m
We're on the lunch break in Jackson vs AEG Live.
Jury is watching video depositions all day today.
No Jackson family members here today.

 

[serendipity]

I thought that Karen Faye email she sent to Frank where she's blaming MJ was found on Frank's laptop. That sure wasn't a smoking gun for the plaintiffs. More like they shot themselves in the foot with that gun LOL

 

[Petrarose]

we seem to get stuck on a topic and repeat it. It was background checks just a few days earlier, today's topic is nutrition. Interestingly not many commented on the HR testimony. so I guess it means we do all the possible discussion before the testimony happens. ehehehe

Haa^^ oh my goodness, I was going to post something like that and ask you guys if you were finished with the credit check merry-go-round. I noticed you guys made a detour into whether Panish rested the case, and then landed in nutrition vs dietitian land. I always know when people are waiting for new evidence, the merry-go-round comes back again.

 

[marebear]

I hope no one gets mad at me for asking this but I have been thinking about this lately. Michael used propofol for sleeping before and he had people watching him and the equipment needed. Why did he let Murray give him propofol like that? It just seems there was more precaution taken when he did it years ago. I just wish he didn't trust Murray. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

 

[Petrarose]

Well Adams helped AEG is showing who introduced Michael to Muarry and that there was a pre-existing doctor-client relationship. At least he treated the children initially. However, we have Michael listing Muarry as his doctor to 2 other doctors in 09.

Adams only saw Joe and Randy while in Vegas. Was that the time Randy tried to jump the gate? He never saw the other Jacksons. I am trying to remember which other Jacksons said they did an intervention in Vegas.
-J. Adams was also asked about which Jackson relatives he saw visit MJ while he lived in Las Vegas. He only saw Randy and Joe Jackson.


I find it interesting that after Michael died Adams went to work for Muarry. Maybe since he went to work for him right away, he did not realize Muarry was implicated, but afterwards when he found out, I wonder what he felt about the situation. He said:
-“I told him that he had taken care of my father for me and that I would be by his side in this situation until it was completed,” Adams said.

-He said he arrived in Southern California the next day and lived with Murray until his conviction, providing security and traveling with him to Philadelphia, Las Vegas, Houston, San Diego, Boston and Miami. He said Murray would see patients in Las Vegas and Houston.

I guess the documentary paid for the travel and Adams fees. At least Muarry was able to work to pay the child support.

 

[Aquarius]

I hope no one gets mad at me for asking this but I have been thinking about this lately. Michael used propofol for sleeping before and he had people watching him and the equipment needed. Why did he let Murray give him propofol like that? It just seems there was more precaution taken when he did it years ago. I just wish he didn't trust Murray. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

We can only wonder. Maybe his need for sleep was greater than reasoning. Maybe Conrad promise he won't take his eyes away from him. Who knows what things were inside his head. But for sure, Michael trusted that snake completely.

 

[Petrarose]

I hope no one gets mad at me for asking this but I have been thinking about this lately. Michael used propofol for sleeping before and he had people watching him and the equipment needed. Why did he let Murray give him propofol like that? It just seems there was more precaution taken when he did it years ago. I just wish he didn't trust Murray. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

^Sometimes I think that at the back of his mind was the idea that soon he would get a replacement or someone to help.

Something else that I wondered about: Michael had to sign the contract before AEG did. It was Muarry, then Michael, then AEG. So after Muarry signed it, was he supposed to give it to Michael to sign? When he went to the house that night wouldn't he take it to Michel and give him to sign? Why was it found in Muarry's car then without Micheal's signature. If it was me and I knew that in a few days we will be in London, before I put Michael to sleep, I would handle all the paperwork, like Michael signing my contract.

Could it be that after Muarry signed it he was supposed to send it back to AEG and then AEG would send it to Michael? Then, Michael send it back to AEG and AEG sign it? Maybe that was the protocol.

 

[Aquarius]

So, Gordon gave Michael the Demerol or not? Wonder why Michael went with Conrad & why the doc say Michael acted as if it was the first time he was there?

 

[Aquarius]

^Sometimes I think that at the back of his mind was the idea that soon he would get a replacement or someone to help.

Something else that I wondered about: Michael had to sign the contract before AEG did. It was Muarry, then Michael, then AEG. So after Muarry signed it, was he supposed to give it to Michael to sign? When he went to the house that night wouldn't he take it to Michel and give him to sign? Why was it found in Muarry's car then without Micheal's signature. If it was me and I knew that in a few days we will be in London, before I put Michael to sleep, I would handle all the paperwork, like Michael signing my contract.

Could it be that after Muarry signed it he was supposed to send it back to AEG and then AEG would send it to Michael? Then, Michael send it back to AEG and AEG sign it? Maybe that was the protocol.

Probably Conrad intended to give the contract to Michael in the morning when he was more refreshed.

 

[Petrarose]

^^Yeah but Michael comes in happy and excited because he did an over the top full dress rehearsal. What are you waiting for the morning for? Ok if he wanted to do it in the morning, wouldn't he take it to the house and then present it in the morning? So if it was in the house, when Muarry was dashing around gathering bottles and making a mess, he remembered it and took it with him to the hospital in the ambulance? Then, he later got his car and put it in there?

 

[8701girl]

Probably Conrad intended to give the contract to Michael in the morning when he was more refreshed.

You really think this man who hid bottles and ran off after mj died was gonna give the contract to michael in the morning ..yeh right! conrat is too much of a douchebag to do that

 

[ivy]

tweets about testimony is slow so I'll do the summary tomorrow.

apparently there's a 3 day break - "The jury returns on Tuesday at 10 a.m. PDT "

just this for the time being

"In July 2003, Jackson returned for another procedure. This time he asked Gordon to cut a “foreign body” out of his abdomen. Gordon removed scar tissue, but said he didn’t find anything inorganic in Jackson’s abdomen. MJ had a wound, but it had healed. The doctor said as Jackson was leaving, he asked for a shot of Demerol “for the road.” Gordon said he was surprised by the request.Gordon said he wasn’t going to give it to Jackson, but asked him how much he wanted. 300mg the singer replied.Gordon said that a high dose and he refused to give it to Jackson. The singer didn’t argue, but did say he could handle it.“I got the impression that he had favors like this done for him before,” Gordon said of Jackson’s request for Demerol."

I forgot the timeline. did he have the implant in july 2003? and if he did, does it mean that he got him to remove the opiate blocker implant and asked for opiates?

edited to add

I checked the summary thread

02 Jul 03 -- patient returned for another implant, sober for almost 9 months, good with 12 step program

Patient can follow up with local physician at this point. Dr. Farshchian said he thought it was enough, the treatment was done.

it seems like these implants last 2-3 months. So he got it removed earlier. I wonder if they dissolve on their own.

second edit

yes they do dissolve. "The Naltrexone implant will entirely dissolve and disappear in approximately two months."


-------------------------

so I assume this is why Jackson expert Shimelman thinks MJ did not have clean periods? I believe he mentioned taking Demerol when he had the implant.

 

[ivy]

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 1m
The first time Dr. Adams gave met Jackson, he said he noticed the singer had a large tongue. He was worried that could be a problem. Sure enough, Jackson’s tongue blocked his airway during each of the four procedures, Dr. Adams said. He was able to quickly remedy it.Moving Michael Jackson’s chin would open up his airway and restore his breathing, Dr. Adams said.

This hit me like a ton of bricks.. could it be why / how Michael died? Dr. Shafer had said it was a respiratory arrest and a simple chin lift would have saved Michael's life and that Michael died during the Propofol infusion and that's why Propofol kept going to his body but he wasn't able to process it - hence high levels found his body.

"Dr. Shafer says yes and probably MJ had an obstructed airway and even a simple chin lift might have been required to save MJ."

 

[Tygger]

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 1m
The first time Dr. Adams gave met Jackson, he said he noticed the singer had a large tongue. He was worried that could be a problem. Sure enough, Jackson’s tongue blocked his airway during each of the four procedures, Dr. Adams said. He was able to quickly remedy it.Moving Michael Jackson’s chin would open up his airway and restore his breathing, Dr. Adams said.

This hit me like a ton of bricks.. could it be why / how Michael died? Dr. Shafer had said it was a respiratory arrest and a simple chin lift would have saved Michael's life and that Michael died during the Propofol infusion and that's why Propofol kept going to his body but he wasn't able to process it - hence high levels found his body.

"Dr. Shafer says yes and probably MJ had an obstructed airway and even a simple chin lift might have been required to save MJ."

We may not agree on many topics however, we do agree on this.

 

[qbee]

Something else that I wondered about: Michael had to sign the contract before AEG did. It was Muarry, then Michael, then AEG. So after Muarry signed it, was he supposed to give it to Michael to sign? When he went to the house that night wouldn't he take it to Michel and give him to sign? Why was it found in Muarry's car then without Micheal's signature. If it was me and I knew that in a few days we will be in London, before I put Michael to sleep, I would handle all the paperwork, like Michael signing my contract.

Could it be that after Murray signed it he was supposed to send it back to AEG and then AEG would send it to Michael? Then, Michael send it back to AEG and AEG sign it? Maybe that was the protocol

Probably Conrad intended to give the contract to Michael in the morning when he was more refreshed.

You really think this man who hid bottles and ran off after mj died was gonna give the contract to michael in the morning ..yeh right! conrat is too much of a douchebag to do that

It would be to his great advantage to have MJ sign the contract Asap so why wouldn't he, if Michael would have lived. The fact he hid bottles after his death and is a douchebag has nothing to do with that. Plus Murray had to tie up some loose ends first concerning the insurance etc. before the contract could be excepted. (which I believe it was stated he was doing that morning on the phone or internet, while MJ lay abandoned and unattended.)

I don't remember if it was stated that any instructions were sent to Murray as far as how the contract should be signed. Maybe similar to what Petrarose suggested, he was suppose to turn it back to AEG first and then they would sign it together with MJ and attorneys present. Being Branca was now on board, I'm sure he would be present for any MJ signatures on contracts. That seems the most logical way to do it. But all we can do is speculate.

 

[Bubs]

^^Yeah but Michael comes in happy and excited because he did an over the top full dress rehearsal. What are you waiting for the morning for? Ok if he wanted to do it in the morning, wouldn't he take it to the house and then present it in the morning? So if it was in the house, when Muarry was dashing around gathering bottles and making a mess, he remembered it and took it with him to the hospital in the ambulance? Then, he later got his car and put it in there?

I think he wanted to give it to AEG people first because they have done so many modifications to contract that he wasn't sure in case AEG wanted to add something to it. Or if AEG people wanted MJ's rep to read it before MJ sign it?

 

[LastTear]

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 1m
The first time Dr. Adams gave met Jackson, he said he noticed the singer had a large tongue. He was worried that could be a problem. Sure enough, Jackson’s tongue blocked his airway during each of the four procedures, Dr. Adams said. He was able to quickly remedy it.Moving Michael Jackson’s chin would open up his airway and restore his breathing, Dr. Adams said.

This hit me like a ton of bricks.. could it be why / how Michael died? Dr. Shafer had said it was a respiratory arrest and a simple chin lift would have saved Michael's life and that Michael died during the Propofol infusion and that's why Propofol kept going to his body but he wasn't able to process it - hence high levels found his body.

"Dr. Shafer says yes and probably MJ had an obstructed airway and even a simple chin lift might have been required to save MJ."

My blood just ran cold. It fits with what Dr Shafer testified to.

I always thought that anybody undergoing any general anaesthetic were intubated.

 

[Bubs]

That Jeffrey Adams testimony was creepy! He was CM's bodyguard in that infamous document and all the time before CM was sent to jail. Mark my words, when CM comes out, those 2 will cook up some stories of MJ and sell them to tabloids.

He said he wasn't working for MJ but was working for him?
Q: At a point, didn't you work for MJ?
A: I didn't officially work for MJ, I orchestrated his staff. I didn't actually officially work 4 him

If he wasn't working for MJ, what business he has to be in the house?

"Adams said MJ wanted resume of Murray, if he could be trusted. "I said he's been my doctor, he's my friend, he definitely can be trusted."

uke:
------------
Murray presented himself and Jackson’s doctor and “spokesperson to some extent,” Gordon said. Gordon found the visit odd.

Spokesperson? Is he sure it was CM, as introducing CM as spokesperson is odd. Is he sure it wasn't Tohme?
----------
Adams finally told them he had to leave, and they asked him to hold on. Jackson and Murray came back into the room after a few more mins.
Murray looked upset by that point. Jackson asked Adams to accompany him on the “This Is It” tour, which took Dr. Adams by surprise.

I have a feeling that MJ told CM he want Adams to administer the propofol, thus CM looking upset as he wanted that money all for himself. CM was supposed to call back to Adams, he never did.

I'd like to know what CM told MJ about Adams?
Btw, I fully expecting another phonecall from jail to the tabloids. This months rent is due and CM needs to sing again.

 

[Bubs]

KJ testified that she filed this lawsuit to find out what happen to her son, here it is:
"The first time Dr. Adams gave met Jackson, he said he noticed the singer had a large tongue. He was worried that could be a problem. Sure enough, Jackson’s tongue blocked his airway during each of the four procedures, Dr. Adams said. He was able to quickly remedy it.Moving Michael Jackson’s chin would open up his airway and restore his breathing, Dr. Adams said."


How come CM didn't notice it when Adams noticed after first time, makes me want tp puke uke:

 

[laeticia.fr]

The first time Dr. Adams gave met Jackson, he said he noticed the singer had a large tongue. He was worried that could be a problem. Sure enough, Jackson’s tongue blocked his airway during each of the four procedures, Dr. Adams said. He was able to quickly remedy it.Moving Michael Jackson’s chin would open up his airway and restore his breathing, Dr. Adams said.

Oh …………… this is really impressive……, the fact that an authentic anesthesiologist was able to observe, at the first view, something that would cause complications : a large tongue, -- where a cardiologist saw nothing wrong -- ; and also able to handle so easily when needed : a chin lift, -- what the cardiologist was unable --.

It is not surprising that Michael had had no accident before and that he had never thought it would be dangerous. Simply because it was always authentic anesthesiologists who had anesthetized him.

If Dr. Adams had accepted the offer, or rather, if Murray had not prevent him from working for Michael, if it was he who had anesthetized Michael this June 2009, Michael would have been still there among us for sure. :mellow:

 

[crillon]

KJ testified that she filed this lawsuit to find out what happen to her son, here it is:
"The first time Dr. Adams gave met Jackson, he said he noticed the singer had a large tongue. He was worried that could be a problem. Sure enough, Jackson’s tongue blocked his airway during each of the four procedures, Dr. Adams said. He was able to quickly remedy it.Moving Michael Jackson’s chin would open up his airway and restore his breathing, Dr. Adams said."


How come CM didn't notice it when Adams noticed after first time, makes me want tp puke uke:

I thought when Dr. Shafer testified about "lifting the chin" it wasn't correlated at all with having a large tongue obstructing a passageway, but rather a standard procedure used whenever there is a breathing issue under sedation. So, even if Murray didn't know about the tongue complicating breathing, he SHOULD have known about the chin lift. And, had he known that AND had he been in the room with Michael observing him, Michael would likely be alive today.

 

[LastTear]

I believe it is standard procedure, my step daughter was given too much morphine after wisdom tooth operation and the intensive care nurse kept doing chin lifts on her every time she stopped breathing, I don't know if her tongue was in the way or if it simply opens up the airways so more air get get through. We need a medical professional on here.

I don't know, I think I'm more confused today than I was yesterday. Michael died of acute propofol intoxication, right? I think I only every hear part of the cause and then my brain just shuts the rest out.