Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Tygger]

Last Tear, I agree there is not much to say about Chase. However, she testified to what she fed Michael and his children and it sounded nutritious to me. No reason for AEG to consider hiring a nutritionist in my view and they could not discuss it with her as she was paid through an advance. I believe Green leaned more towards removing conflict of interest from the doctor than AEG. I am unsure what you meant.

Crillon, Ivy, tsk tsk. I presented medical insurance companies as an example of a third party that does a background check on a doctor that will care for another. Are you aware AEG is not a health care entity? AEG is not restricted in the type of background check they could have performed if so inclined. Panish showed AEG's own written policies would not have restricted them either.

AEG is in a civil trial and the plaintiffs only had to show it was more than likely AEG did not perform a background check on the doctor. The plaintiffs instead proved without a shadow of doubt AEG did not perform any form of background check.

Again, what you and others are using and have used for quite some time is hindsight; that a vetting process would predict the doctor killing his patient. You may not understand or may have decided to stubbornly refuse to grasp the concept that AEG could have stalled and/or ended any employment negotiation with the doctor based on whatever they discovered in a background check provided they actually performed one.

Yes, Panish was amazing on cross as usual. AEG experts make it extremely simple but, I am sure none of those tweets will be posted in this thread. That would lean towards objectivity, eh?

AEG filed this motion the day after Ortega finished testifying - thinking it meant Jacksons rested. But then Panish did not want to rest until sometime last week. and judge is now determining days to hear arguments.

Ivy, no, the plaintiffs’ case did indeed rest officially after Ortega and that is why AEG filed their motion the very next day. It was a formality for Panish to address the jurors that the plaintiffs’ case indeed rested.

Jamba,
It would seem every poster in this thread should not post until after the verdict is rendered. Is this what you are suggesting or you would just prefer my silence? My silence will not commence until a verdict is reached. My posts assist thread balance and objectivity.

 

[bouee]

2 answers to that one IMO.

the bad version would be addiction / doctor shopping version in which he would be trying to make sure he has access to multiple sources/doctors for Propofol lined up so he can get it all the time he wants even one doctor stops giving it to him.

the good version would be safety version in which he wanted to get a second person to monitor himself in addition to Murray , and/or he wanted a anesthesiologist administer it and/or he was planning on replacing Murray.

There is a 3rd possibility : He was not sure Murray would be doing it & was still looking for someone in case Murray wouldn't do it.

Murray was already there, treating his vitiligo : he was ordering benoquin in march , but not full time. So Murray was maybe not initially hired by Michael for propofol.


From Tim Lopez testimony that I quoted earlier, some of the april 6 propofol stayed in Vegas. "Heavy treatement" started very end of april, early may IMO (lidocaine order mid may, quantities of propofol go up on 28th april, benzos ordered april 30th).

The propofol that stayed in Vegas could confirm that Murray was somehow "practicing" in Vegas (he said he watched Adams give it to Michael, which Adams denied)

Also Murray wanted the job, he could have tried hard to convince Michael (having the propofol ready for ex).

EDIT : it's not clear from both Wooley's and Jorrie's testimonies WHEN Murray said he would need an assistant. It's clear it was in may, but not clear if it was right at the beginning of the negociations.
Jorrie wrote "nurse" on the contract, and Murray had it changed to assistant on june 18th, because he said it could/would be another physician, in case he wouldn't be available.

 

[Soundmind]

And this is what the jury will be asking more than likely - he was asking for propofol from another person at the same time Murray was giving it. I don't see the jury over analyzing it like we're doing. We're thinking as fans, but they won't be thinking like that.

The fact that Murray asked AEG for an assistant as late as June proves MJ was not satisfied with him being the sole doctor . He went WITH murray to see Dr.Adams in March and asked him to JOIN Murray , that happened in MARCH. Adams will testify and the jury will get to hear that MJ was asking for a SECOND doctor for safety measures .

Sorry, but the fact that he was asking for Propofol at all is the problem, in my opinion.

Regardless to when he was asking for the Propofol to be used, the problem, as I see it, is that he was asking Nurse Lee at all. I mean, he already had Murray on the dole for his Profolol intake, so why mention it to Nurse Lee at all?

That's the question.

I mean this info was public for the last four years , to act like it is sort of shocking to you is weird really . As Bonnie said , during Murray's trial that was explained as MJ seeking a second doctor for safety measures now all of a sudden the same fans find it disturbing and shocking !! The jury by the way heard from the media MJ was using propofol as a sleep aid, all of them said they heard it before they were chosen as jurors . They judged him before without knowning why would have he resorted to use it as a sleep aid, now they got to hear why , it's up to them to understand or not. But please stop acting like propofol is shocking and the jury now r shocked by it. MJ's death was all over the news the same with murray trial.

I know you hate the Jacksons like I do and you want them to lose, but please spare Michael . maybe I'm wrong for expecting people to be consistent with what they have been sayiong for four years .

 

[Mneme]

I think the stress was just too much for him so he turned to it way earlier and way more than he ever had before. It wasn't just AEG stress either, as I commented before re AllGood, the family, the lawsuits, the financial stresses, Tohme, you name it.

The stress with regard to his comeback was enormous, yes. (I prefer to say "comeback stress" and not "AEG stress")
But still that was the least of it.

 

[LastTear]

@Tygger

Last Tear, I agree there is not much to say about Chase. However, she testified to what she fed Michael and his children and it sounded nutritious to me. No reason for AEG to consider hiring a nutritionist in my view and they could not discuss it with her as she was paid through an advance. I believe Green leaned more towards removing conflict of interest from the doctor than AEG. I am unsure what you meant.

Im sure Kai's food was delicious and I'm sure it was based on a balanced diet, however there is more to nutrition than just a balanced diet, it's a specialist subject. Also don't forget Kai wasn't just feeding Michael, she already had a full time job. But anyway if we still disagree lets just shake on it.

Ivy, no, the plaintiffs’ case did indeed rest officially after Ortega and that is why AEG filed their motion the very next day. It was a formality for Panish to address the jurors that the plaintiffs’ case indeed rested.

Where on earth do you get your information from? Actually, don't answer that. The judge didn't even know they had formally rested.

 

[Bubs]

Young have very impressive credential's:
Young has consulted on HR issues with the U.S. government and large tech companies including Facebook, Microsoft, IBM, LinkedIn, Roche, UC Med Centers, private hospitals, Kaiser, Chevron.
-----
Young: This is little bit of different 3-way agreement. This is AEG acting on behalf, helping MJ getting the doctor he wanted to go on tour
Bina asked who she understood asked for Dr. Murray to be hired. "Michael Jackson," she responded.
Young: My understanding is AEG was to advance funds for other personal staff on behalf of MJ at his request ultimately to be paid back by MJ
"My understanding these choices were being made by MJ. The children chose Kai Chase, but the choices were ultimately MJ's," Young testified.

She is right. If Jackson claims that background & credit check should have been done, then it would have been done to other people MJ wanted but AEG advanced their pay. Kai C could have poison MJ with her cookings, Karen Fake could have suffocated MJ by feeding him too many bagels, Travis could have danced MJ to death, Ortega could have had massage MJ feet until they fell off. Nothing in their background or credit history suggest that those things could have happened or anything in CM's history was going to tell that he was going to kill MJ by not monitoring him while giving propofol.
-------------
Bina: Do you agree or disagree that a credit check was job related for MJ's physician?
Young: I absolutely do not agree.

Finally someone with common sense
It is utter nonsense to do credit check on someone that MJ brought to fold, just like no credit check on TP, KO, KF, KC.
------------
Young is donating the trial testimony money to the American Cancer Society.
Panish said if he keeps her tomorrow there will be more money to ACS. Defense attorney objected. Everyone laughed again.




There's about 3.5 hours of video testimony to be played of Dr. Adams, Dr. Gordon and Mr. Adams. We hope to see you then!

Who is Mr Adams?

 

[Bubs]

Im sure Kai's food was delicious and I'm sure it was based on a balanced diet, however there is more to nutrition than just a balanced diet, it's a specialist subject. Also don't forget Kai wasn't just feeding Michael, she already had a full time job. But anyway if we still disagree lets just shake on it.

Kai herself knew the difference between chef and nutrionist
Chang: Are you trained as nutritionist?
Chase: No, I'm not
Chase said she studied nutrition of foods, but does not have training as nutritionist. (ABC7)

 

[Big Apple2]

But please stop acting like propofol is shocking and the jury now r shocked by it. MJ's death was all over the news the same with murray trial.

I know you hate the Jacksons like I do and you want them to lose, but please spare Michael . maybe I'm wrong for expecting people to be consistent with what they have been sayiong for four years .

Two things:

Please don't tell me how I should be "acting," I'm an adult and am free to express MY OPINION.

Secondly, I don't HATE the Jacksons, but I am very, very disappointed in them.

Oh and for the record, EVERY TIME I hear that a doctor administered Propofol as a sleep aid in someone's bedroom without the proper monitoring equipment, I'm shocked. Maybe it's just me, but it remains a SHOCKING turn of events. But like I said, maybe that's just me!

 

[Big Apple2]

There's about 3.5 hours of video testimony to be played of Dr. Adams, Dr. Gordon and Mr. Adams. We hope to see you then!

Who is Mr Adams?

Thanks Bubs, I LOVE reading your updates.

Mr. Adams - that's a new name? While we're on the subject, who the heck is Dr. Gordon?

 

[Bubs]

Jackson's motion for leave to amend
Jackson motion
Jackson lawyers have filed a motion to amend their complaint to add a claim of negligence.
Jackson lawyers state their original complaint first claim was dismissed by the judge because the judge ruled there was no "duty of care". Jackson lawyers argue that the evidence presented has established a duty of care and allege that AEG performed their contractual duties as producer negligently (paragraph 8 of the contract list AEG's duties)
Evidence to show AEG breached its duty
- Hiring of a physician creating conflict of interest (not proven)
- Norm was to decline the hiring request and require MJ hire his own physician (what norm and according to whom?)
- Insertion of AEG into negotiations creating conflict of interest (Plaintiffs should have sued MJ for that, or themselves as MJ had no money to pay CM himself because plaintiffs were bleending MJ dry while he was in financial distress)
- Murray’s contract terms written by AEG and giving AEG termination power (by MJ's request)
- Demand of $5 Million being a red flag (for who? Why would AEG care how much MJ wanted to pay his own doctor, they were going to get their advance back from MJ)
- Abrupt drop to $150,000 a month should have raised a red flag that the services were illicit (obviously bargaining negotiations are unknown to these people. Fool is not the one who asks, but the one who pays without bargaining)
- Amount of $150,000 should raised a red flag Murray would be providing drugs to Michael (absolutely, it is clear as mud :doh
- Threat of losing $150,000 would create pressure for Murray (all the same, it would create pressure to keep MJ healthy, not kill him)
- AEG’s communications with Murray inferred with patient-doctor relationship (what was the communications again as they haven't shown evidense what was communicated. All we know AEG could have asked tips from CM how to pull a woman)
- Allowed Murray act as MJ’s physician despite red flags (hindsight is speaking)
- Failed to realize the deterioration and halt the production until MJ was assessed by specialists (half of the people says this and other half that. I can see it created confusion and when they finally caught up, it was too late)
- Failed to remove Murray when Michael was deteriorating under his care (Suspicions pointed to Klein's direction)
- False statements to Ortega and others (????)
- Creating pressure for both Michael and Murray with no cancellation insurance to cover the increased production costs (sure, and that was the reason MJ asked CM to give him propofol, and thats why MJ needed propofol during his previous tours :doh
- Resulted in drastic measures taken by Michael and Murray on June 25th (MJ and CM took drastic measures every day since CM started giving propofol to MJ)

AEG’s opposition
AEG is opposing the above motion saying that the negligence claim was dismissed during summary judgment and by law it cannot be revisited. AEG specially points out the part in Jacksons motion where they have said they raised the contract issues before.
AEG also argues that everything Jacksons list is actually the same elements of their negligent hiring claim and is not a general negligence claim. They list where some of the above elements were mentioned during summary judgment and state that law states same facts cannot support negligent hiring and general negligence.
-------------------------
Panish is starting to sound like mad dog Sneddon. Didn't Sneddon added new claims to original lasuits as he went on?
I don't think Jackson's claim is going thru, as they haven't even proved the evidence points they claim on the list.
Do I smell fear of losing case from plaintiffs side if they feel they need to add a new claim nearly end of the trial?

 

[Bubs]

Thanks Bubs, I LOVE reading your updates.

Mr. Adams - that's a new name? While we're on the subject, who the heck is Dr. Gordon?

New names popping out like mushrooms after the rain:bugeyed

- Gordon is a doctor that Michael went to get fillers in his face before TII. Murray called Dr. Gordon for the procedure. After the procedure Gordon did not provide any post care or pain medications because Murray told him he was Michael's personal doctor and he was taking care of Michael's day to day needs.

Still looking for info who is Mr Adams?
First google link brings up mugshot of Jeffrey Lee Adams(that is his full name as listed on Ivy's list of witnesses)
http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/North-Carolina/Wilkes-County-NC/Jeffrey-Lee-Adams.35320514/details/

Must be other Jeffrey Lee Adams Back to searching.

 

[Bubs]

I wonder if this is the man?
http://drjeffadams.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-what-why/

 

[Big Apple2]

- Gordon is a doctor that Michael went to get fillers in his face before TII. Murray called Dr. Gordon for the procedure. After the procedure Gordon did not provide any post care or pain medications because Murray told him he was Michael's personal doctor and he was taking care of Michael's day to day needs.

Thanks Bubs!

I thought Dr. Klein was doing the "face fillers?"

"Murray called Dr. Gordon for THE PROCEDURE," do you mean Dr. Gordon taught Murray how to administer face fillers? Oy vey!

 

[Bubs]

I know you hate the Jacksons like I do and you want them to lose, but please spare Michael . maybe I'm wrong for expecting people to be consistent with what they have been sayiong for four years .

I know this wasn't directed at me but I wanted to comment on the bolded part. How can people obsessively hold on the opinion that they had 4 years ago if there has more and different information come out since then? I personally cannot say I would agree with everything I have said 4 years ago as I now know more than I knew 4 years ago, and have adjusted my beliefs accordingly. It also means that I still can change my opinions if more information comes along.

 

[Bubs]

Thanks Bubs!

I thought Dr. Klein was doing the "face fillers?"

"Murray called Dr. Gordon for THE PROCEDURE," do you mean Dr. Gordon taught Murray how to administer face fillers? Oy vey!

I thought too that klein was doing stuff related to cosmetic procedures?
I think it means that CM called to Gordon for appointment for MJ, not that he did them himself.
I would say it is related and similar than what Dr Sasaki testified:
Sasaki recalled that he was told that Jackson had a low pain tolerance, and that Hoefflin would take care of managing it. The doctor said that was unusual, since he usually saw patients throughout their recovery process. He said sometimes docs want to keep control of their celebrity patients, but noted he was just speculating that’s what was happening with MJ (AP) Dr. Sasaki prepared a summary of all the treatment of MJ on Feb 7, 2013. He wrote Dr. Hoefflin told him MJ had a low threshold to pain. Dr. Hoefflin strongly suggested he managed the pain medications since he knew the patient better. Dr. Sasaki said that with celebrities, when he doesn’t get to see patients frequently, he prefers not to treat them. Q: Did you provide any post operation pain care? A: None Q: Was that unusual? A: It’s highly unusual. Dr. Sasaki said if he doesn’t see the patient regularly he prefers not to give pain medication. He said he never talked to MJ about the pain treatment. Dr. Sasaki: I think when you’re dealing with high profile clients, some doctors prefer to keep it under control. Dr. Sasaki said he did the surgery but didn’t see the patient until 2-3 months later, which is highly unusual. Q: Did you prescribe any medication to MJ? A: No. Dr. Sasaki said normally a patient who undergoes that kind of surgery has pain lasting for 6 weeks. (ABC7)


Sasaki says that he didn't provide post surgery care, just like Gordon, the only difference is that CM was identified as MJ's personal doc during that episode.
I think Gordon's testimony purpose is to hammer home the information that CM was MJ's personal doctor well before AEG came to picture, which was what DR Slavit testified too. When MJ saw him in Jan 2009, MJ told him CM was his doctor.

 

[LastTear]

I wonder if this is the man?
http://drjeffadams.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-what-why/

I found the same man, don't know if it's the correct one.

Do I smell fear of losing case from plaintiffs side if they feel they need to add a new claim nearly end of the trial?

I smell something alright! Lol

- Gordon is a doctor that Michael went to get fillers in his face before TII. Murray called Dr. Gordon for the procedure. After the procedure Gordon did not provide any post care or pain medications because Murray told him he was Michael's personal doctor and he was taking care of Michael's day to day needs.

Parhaps this shows that Murray was trying to distance Michael from Klein? Maybe in Michaels best interests or in Murray's (wanting total control). I wonder if Murray was present or whether Michael managed these fillers without pain relief.

ETA On second thoughts if he were to testify that he didn't give Michael any drugs - what could the purpose of his testimony be?

 

[bouee]

Dr Adams would be David Adams, he was mentionned during Murray's procedure, and we mentionned him several times on this thread.
Off the top of my head :

-anesthesiolgist in Las Vegas
-his card with his phone number (hand written if I recall correctly) was found in MJ's stuff at Carolwood.
-Murray said he watched him giving propofol to MJ - Adams's lawyer said it was not ture
-According to Adams lawyer at the time , there were contacts bewteen Murray & Adams about the "job" (going to London with Michael). Murray & Michael met Adams in LV, Adams didn't give answer straight away, contacted Murray later to accept the job. There was an issue between Murray & Adams about money. We don't know if Murray told Michael that Adams was on board.
-He was very likely the "assistant".
-he was rumored to be the anesthesiolgist at Tadrissi's office (Tadrissi is a dentist in las Vegas, he got a fine by the Nevada medical board for allowing anethesia in his office for a dental procedure)

Adams never testified , so we'll see what he has to say.

 

[bouee]

From TMZ, feb 2011

We've learned Dr. Adams told LAPD investigators that several months before MJ's death ... Dr. Conrad Murray and Michael met with Dr. Adams and said, "We think it would be great to have an anesthesiologist go on the [This Is It] tour."

Turns out Dr. Adams had a history with Michael ... he had put MJ under with Propofol four times in two years for various procedures.

Adams thought about it and texted Murray, "I'd like to be on board. Let's talk about it." But MJ and Murray never contacted him again.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/16/micha...london-tour-investigation-lapd/#ixzz2cbUKqipX
Visit Fishwrapper: http://www.fishwrapper.com

 

[Bubs]

I found the same man, don't know if it's the correct one.

Parhaps this shows that Murray was trying to distance Michael from Klein? Maybe in Michaels best interests or in Murray's (wanting total control). I wonder if Murray was present or whether Michael managed these fillers without pain relief.

ETA On second thoughts if he were to testify that he didn't give Michael any drugs - what could the purpose of his testimony be?

The man you found too says on that link he travelled with MJ in middle east?
"Earlier this year I traveled extensively through some remote regions of the Middle East with a middle-age white man who has his legal name on his US Passport – Michael Jackson. I honestly cannot remember a border crossing, hotel clerk, military check point or airline counter where that name on the passport did not elicit a wry smile and usually some humorous comments. You have to work really hard to find a place on earth where Michael Jackson’s name is not known."

We have to wait untill Ivy wakes up and tells us who is this man

I would think purpose of his testimony is like Dr Slavit. Mj told Slavit in Jan 2009 CM was his personal doctor and I assume Gordon would testify something similar and possibly he gives a date when he saw MJ and the date would be early 2009 or even late 2008. Jackson's have been trying to insinuate that AEG pushed MJ to take CM, thus these testimonies.

 

[LastTear]

Dr Adams would be David Adams, he was mentionned during Murray's procedure, and we mentionned him several times on this thread.
Off the top of my head :

-anesthesiolgist in Las Vegas
-his card with his phone number (hand written if I recall correctly) was found in MJ's stuff at Carolwood.
-Murray said he watched him giving propofol to MJ - Adams's lawyer said it was not ture
-According to Adams lawyer at the time , there were contacts bewteen Murray & Adams about the "job" (going to London with Michael). Murray & Michael met Adams in LV, Adams didn't give answer straight away, contacted Murray later to accept the job. There was an issue between Murray & Adams about money. We don't know if Murray told Michael that Adams was on board.
-He was very likely the "assistant".
-he was rumored to be the anesthesiolgist at Tadrissi's office (Tadrissi is a dentist in las Vegas, he got a fine by the Nevada medical board for allowing anethesia in his office for a dental procedure)

Adams never testified , so we'll see what he has to say.

It's going to be interesting to see what he says about TII and Murray.

We were looking for Jeffery Lee Adams. Any ideas?

 

[bouee]

It's going to be interesting to see what he says about TII and Murray.

We were looking for Jeffery Lee Adams. Any ideas?

Yes, i realised that after I posted.....
No I have no idea who is is. He is on both witness lists.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Googled j l adams - its a toss up between an oil refinery expert witness (perhaps mj owned an oil rig) and a bathroom installer in watford.

 

[Bubs]

Googled j l adams - its a toss up between an oil refinery expert witness (perhaps mj owned an oil rig) and a bathroom installer in watford.

or fitness with Jeffrey Adams

 

[ivy]

I believe that MJ had Murray ORDER the propofol but that he never intended that Murray woiuld be the one administering it b/c he knew he needed an anesthesiologist,which he had always had before.

That's what I think too. Meeting with Dr. Adams was around these dates too. So I do think he was looking for an anesthesiologist and trying to have a 2 person team.

Crillon, Ivy, tsk tsk. I presented medical insurance companies as an example of a third party that does a background check on a doctor that will care for another.

they don't. I was able to find Texas government source about workers compensation doctors. There's no credit check.

Yes, Panish was amazing on cross as usual.

Do you ever think the opposite?

AEG experts make it extremely simple but, I am sure none of those tweets will be posted in this thread. That would lean towards objectivity, eh?

Why can't you post the parts you want? Are you not able to do so? and if you didn't realize my objectivity is the summaries and news updates I do that include both sides. I report everything from both sides. While I'm discussing on this thread as a member, I can post and comment on the parts I like. If you want to bring other parts to this discussion post it themselves rather than acting like Panish's number one fan.

Ivy, no, the plaintiffs’ case did indeed rest officially after Ortega and that is why AEG filed their motion the very next day. It was a formality for Panish to address the jurors that the plaintiffs’ case indeed rested.

Are you serious? The day after Ortega, AEG filed the motion. Judge asked Jacksons if they will rest. Panish said he did not know and need to talk other lawyers. Several days passed. Judge asked him again. Panish said he did not want to rest his case. Judge told him he had to and if he didn't rest, she would do it for him. Panish had to rest his case on the record.

I don't know who do you think you are fooling acting like Panish wanted to rest and did it quickly on his own. We all know what happened.

EDIT : it's not clear from both Wooley's and Jorrie's testimonies WHEN Murray said he would need an assistant. It's clear it was in may, but not clear if it was right at the beginning of the negociations. Jorrie wrote "nurse" on the contract, and Murray had it changed to assistant on june 18th, because he said it could/would be another physician, in case he wouldn't be available.

I think - perhaps - Murray was okay with a second doctor / anesthesiologist but he wanted to secure his job first. He requested the change from nurse to doctor and if his contract was signed, he could have brought an anesthesiologist and say "this is the doctor I want".

She is right. If Jackson claims that background & credit check should have been done, then it would have been done to other people MJ wanted but AEG advanced their pay. Kai C could have poison MJ with her cookings, Karen Fake could have suffocated MJ by feeding him too many bagels, Travis could have danced MJ to death, Ortega could have had massage MJ feet until they fell off. Nothing in their background or credit history suggest that those things could have happened or anything in CM's history was going to tell that he was going to kill MJ by not monitoring him while giving propofol.

I agree. The only way to justify a background check would be to include all personal employees, who have access to Michael one on one and in private settings. You can logically explain that as these people would have access to Michael, you were making sure they won't harm him in anyway by doing a complete background check. On the other hand if previously working with Michael is enough to show they can be trusted, the same should apply to Murray who treated Michael for 3 years.

Who is Mr Adams?

Mr. Adams - that's a new name? While we're on the subject, who the heck is Dr. Gordon?

Dr Adams would be David Adams, he was mentionned during Murray's procedure, and we mentionned him several times on this thread.

Jeffrey Adams - According to Anthony McCartney "Jeffrey Adams apparently introduced Jackson to Conrad Murray". Nothing more is known about him. If the past stories of "a bodyguard introduced Michael to Murray" is true, it would mean he is a Vegas bodyguard.

Dr. David Adams - is the anesthesiologist as Bouee mentioned. He knew Michael as he gave him Propofol at Tadrissi's office for dental procedures. From his deposition in Lloyd's case he was called to a meeting with Michael and Murray. He was told by Michael he wanted Adams to come on tour and help him sleep. Murray did not look happy. A few days later Adams accepted the job but he later found out his price was too high.

and for Gordon

- Gordon is a doctor that Michael went to get fillers in his face before TII. Murray called Dr. Gordon for the procedure. After the procedure Gordon did not provide any post care or pain medications because Murray told him he was Michael's personal doctor and he was taking care of Michael's day to day needs.

 

[ivy]

08/29/2013 at 01:30 pm in department 28 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Oral Argument(ON PLTFS MTN TO AMEND)

09/05/2013 at 10:30 am in department 28 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Oral Argument(ON MTN FOR NON SUIT)

 

[Bubs]

Ivy, what do you think Jackson's chances for motion for amend?

I personally think judge should toss it as I agree with AEG:
AEG’s opposition
"AEG is opposing the above motion saying that the negligence claim was dismissed during summary judgment and by law it cannot be revisited. AEG specially points out the part in Jacksons motion where they have said they raised the contract issues before.
AEG also argues that everything Jacksons list is actually the same elements of their negligent hiring claim and is not a general negligence claim. They list where some of the above elements were mentioned during summary judgment and state that law states same facts cannot support negligent hiring and general negligence."

Also about AEG's motion of nonsuit, I agree with that one too, but what is behind the idea of this bit:
Alternative motion

In the alternative – if the judge does not grant the above main motion and dismiss the whole case due to not meeting the burden of proof- AEG is asking the judge to remove / dismiss Phillips and Gongaware as defendants.

AEG states the negligent hiring claim puts the liability of the employer and not the employees of the employer. AEG states neither Phillips nor Gongaware employed Murray personally. AEG states even if the judge thinks there’s enough evidence to suggest AEG Live might have hired Murray, there’s nothing to suggest negligent hiring by Phillips and Gongaware as individuals.


How would AEG benefit if Gonga and RP are removed as individuals?

 

[ivy]

Ivy, what do you think Jackson's chances for motion for amend?

to me it sounds the same as the negligent hiring claim. That being said I don't have much information in that regard. I would need to go and read definitions of negligence, negligent hiring etc. to be more informed but honesty I don't plan to spend time on that. however it's obvious that Jacksons wanting to add this general negligence if they fail at the hiring portion.

Also about AEG's motion of nonsuit, I agree with that one too, but what is behing the idea of this bit: How would AEG benefit if Gonga and RP are removed as individuals?

as a big picture - I mean if AEG loses and have to pay money - it won't make a difference. The only difference is that if Gongaware and Phillips are on defendants list they can be held responsible and required to pay personally - if their contract with AEG does not provide safety for them ( I think at least Gongaware is protected). So the only benefit would be to Phillips and Gongaware, they would not be personally sued and held liable. As far as AEG goes it won't change anything for them.

 

[bouee]

I think - perhaps - Murray was okay with a second doctor / anesthesiologist but he wanted to secure his job first. He requested the change from nurse to doctor and if his contract was signed, he could have brought an anesthesiologist and say "this is the doctor I want".

Murray probably didn't want to share or be the "assistant" himself, but I think he used the word "assistant" with Wooley some time in may. It was Jorrie who used the word "nurse" in the contract, and he got that changed on june 18th, so he got that changed right after the first draft I think. So 2 doctors might have been the original plan, decided around april 19th.

I don't know what Adams (the dr) will say, but I've been waiting for the explanation of this story for 2 or 3 years now, I hope it will somehow come tonight (today for you).

As well as the issue about money he had with Murray, if it's true he had one.

I remember a quote, supposedly from him, supposedly through his lawyer, that he thought that there was not enough money, and that with that price "all that Murray would buy would be a funeral". That was supposedly something he told Murray, I guess warning him that more equipment & staff was needed. I don't know if there's any truth to that story though, but I'd like to know.

I expect this will be tough to hear, though he's on both witness lists.

 

[bouee]

to me it sounds the same as the negligent hiring claim. That being said I don't have much information in that regard. I would need to go and read definitions of negligence, negligent hiring etc. to be more informed but honesty I don't plan to spend time on that. however it's obvious that Jacksons wanting to add this general negligence if they fail at the hiring portion.





as a big picture - I mean if AEG loses and have to pay money - it won't make a difference. The only difference is that if Gongaware and Phillips are on defendants list they can be held responsible and required to pay personally - if their contract with AEG does not provide safety for them ( I think at least Gongaware is protected). So the only benefit would be to Phillips and Gongaware, they would not be personally sued and held liable. As far as AEG goes it won't change anything for them.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gongaware was removed. There's no clear proof against him. Or maybe I don't rememeber...

 

[Bubs]

to me it sounds the same as the negligent hiring claim. That being said I don't have much information in that regard. I would need to go and read definitions of negligence, negligent hiring etc. to be more informed but honesty I don't plan to spend time on that. however it's obvious that Jacksons wanting to add this general negligence if they fail at the hiring portion.

Thanks Ivy. Thats what I thought as I started to smell desparation from plaintiffs.

Now I would love to know how Randy's tweets about Paris is connceted to this whole mess, as Randy is not know being worried about anyone else other than himself and MJ's money (which according to him should belong to "family").