Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Soundmind]

I wonder how much this trial has cost so far..I´m talking about money here not Nichael´s reputation..

well, it's very fair to assume the initiators ( Katherine and her broke cubs) are not losing any sleep over the money spent .they won't have to pay anything even if they lose . So far their dark history of sucking MJ's blood and money was not even mentioned ,no one is going after them , it's only MJ who is exposed and dragged through the mud ,eventually he will pay for everything as usual .

 

[Mneme]

^^I always questioned that Muarry was giving Michael prof for all those weeks, and after hearing this testimony, I question it even more.

Well, I have my doubts too.
On the other hand --- if true, in my opinion it would be an important indication for Michael's healthy and robust condition (physically) at the beginning from Murray's "care".

I can't find an answer why should Murray tell about this long period and, honestly, I only have the idea that it is a part of his self-satification (See, I, Conrad Murray the great physician, have dare this what never another physician before had done.)
But this is nonsense.
Murray could never expect a advantage by telling about "60 days Propofol".

Also what could be the Murra's reason and what was or is the aim?

 

[crillon]

well, it's very fair to assume the initiators ( Katherine and her broke cubs) are not losing any sleep over the money spent .they won't have to pay anything even if they lose . So far their dark history of sucking MJ's blood and money was not even mentioned ,no one is going after them , it's only MJ who is exposed and dragged through the mud ,eventually he will pay for everything as usual .

This may have been covered already here, so I apologize if this is a repeat. But, I hear all the time that the Estate is paying Katherine's legal bill for this trial. Is that for real? And, if so, why on earth wouldn't she have to fund it out of whatever allowance she gets monthly?

 

[Tygger]

If there were just 2 of them, I would assume MJ didn't want or know how to write checks, and MJ may not have had his card or cash with him. Don't know whether this is true or not, but KJ testified, MJ didn't write checks.

Bubs, is it at all possible that Michael did not have a personal checking account but had several business checking accounts? He gave his mother gifts of cash from his personal funds most likely and paid doctors the same way which kept his personal spending personal.

I do not believe he donated millions to charity with paper bills and these checks (or even transfers) were signed and/or approved by whoever his financial officer was.

I do not believe with Michael's status of wealth he did not know how to write a check however, he did not need to. Similar to how Katherine would not be aware of a personal checking account if she has one as she will never have to go to an ATM or queue for a banking transaction.

 

[crillon]

Bubs, is it at all possible that Michael did not have a personal checking account but had several business checking accounts? He gave his mother gifts of cash from his personal funds most likely and paid doctors the same way which kept his personal spending personal.

I do not believe he donated millions to charity with paper bills and these checks (or even transfers) were signed and/or approved by whoever his financial officer was.

I do not believe with Michael's status of wealth he did not know how to write a check however, he did not need to. Similar to how Katherine would not be aware of a personal checking account if she has one as she will never have to go to an ATM or queue for a banking transaction.

I recall the interview with MJ's bodyguards (LV period) on ABC when they said Michael didn't even have a credit card or a checkbook, which is the reason they were not paid by him directly. He had to rely on his handlers--like Raymone Bain, Thome--for his bills to be paid.

So, it's reasonable to assume Michael asked Murray to pay Dr. Adams with the promise of reimbursing him.

 

[Tygger]

Crillon, I was speaking more to Bubs’ suggestion that Michael did not want or know how to write a check. I have corrected the post to highlight that. The bodyguard story you are referring to supports the theory of business checking accounts handled by financial officers assigned by Michael.

Ivy, such a lengthy post about one poster; to what do I owe this honor?

I do not agree with you on most topics regarding the trial and I have been a vocal supporter of the plaintiffs since the trial was filed as is my right. Because of this, you accuse me of being more invested in the trial than you who also post daily, not reading court documents, unwilling to listen to the defense’s case, not caring about testimony, being a fan and/or cheerleader of Panish with daily “Panish is so wonderful” posts, and not being objective. Did I miss label?

You are not neutral in your positions, you do not support the plaintiffs, and you characterize that as evaluative? Others in this thread who are also not neutral and do not support the plaintiffs are not accused by you of the things you accused me of simply because they agree with you.

Say what you like about me; it does not and will not make anything you say factual and says much more about you than it will ever say about me.

It is interesting that you feel AEG is defending themselves and support that daily but, do not see the plaintiffs attempting to defend their lost love one. Foolish me; I forgot the objective/majority position in this thread is the plaintiffs are only seeking monies.

If there's interest we might try it but I'm pretty sure we will get attacked if we approach Putnam/ AEG , also as I expect an appeal regardless of the outcome I think parties might be unwilling to talk.

Nothing ventured; nothing gained. Anyone attacking MJJC for approaching Putnam would not be objective, correct?

 

[AliCat]

In reading some of the comments about Michael Jackson not having a checking account, here's an article talking about this very same subject - - -


LONDON - Michael Jackson's nanny testified Friday that a Bahrainian prince wired her $1 million - because the singer didn't have a bank account.
The pop star was once one of the wealthiest entertainers in the world, but in 2005 he was so broke he needed a sheikh to pay his utility bills.
The nanny, Grace Rwaramba, said she was "flabbergasted" when Jackson's benefactor, Sheikh Abdulla bin Hamad Al-Khalifa put $35,000 into her account to cover bills for Neverland Ranch in California.

When he followed up with a transfer of $1 million, "it blew my mind," Rwaramba said.
She was testifying as a defense witness in London High Court, where the sheikh's $7 million breach-of-contract suit against Jackson is being heard.
Al-Khalifa claims he bankrolled the former pop star because he agreed to produce and album, an autobiography and musical for a joint venture.
He charges Jackson reneged on the deal and should pay back the money.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...anny-testifies-article-1.337502#ixzz2crNQym82

Michael Jackson did bank with Bank of America, up to his death. Bank of America had loaned Michael Jackson several hundred million dollars, based on his asset's, which were the Beatles Catalog, Neverland ranch and his own music. It was later sold to Fortress Investments. Bad debt on a financial institution's books is bad for business, it lowers the financial institutions credit rating. So as Grace testified, the money had to be wired into her account.

AEG Live had advanced money to Michael Jackson, including paying off the Prince of Bahrain, which allowed Michael Jackson to have a bank account once again. I saw a bank note from Bank of America, that Michael had withdrawn from to pay for some art work that Michael had purchased shortly before he died. Michael had taken his children to an art show in Beverly Hills. So cute!

 

[Bubs]

Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 21 Aug
.@shellywebstere AEG has said it wants to call Rebbie to the stand, and may re-call Katherine.

May re-call KJ?
I was wondering if AEG doesn't call KJ back on stand how they are going to show KJ's negligent on MJ's death, re proposed verdict form?

15. Was Katherine Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?
Yes / No
Please go on question 16.
16. Please identify the percentage of the total negligence and fault for Michael Jackson's death was due to conduct of Michael Jackson, Katherine Jackson and each defendant you answered yes in question 11. The percentages must add to 100%.
Michael Jackson ____%
Katherine Jackson____%
AEG Live ________%
AEG Live Productions____%
Gongaware _______%
Phillips _________%

So far I don't see AEG have brought the issue KJ negligency or wrongful conduct caused MJ's death to the trial, so if they don't call her, how they are going to show it in trial?

 

[Big Apple2]

Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 21 Aug
.@shellywebstere AEG has said it wants to call Rebbie to the stand, and may re-call Katherine.

I wonder what information Rebbie has, as opposed to Michael's OTHER siblings (not including Randy Jackson who has already testified via video deposition).

Or will she remain in hiding, oops, I mean sick, yeah that's the ticket, she might STILL be sick.

Anywho, I just find it interesting that as the siblings go, the focus has, thus far, been on Randy AND Rebbie.

 

[ivy]

I was wondering if AEG doesn't call KJ back on stand how they are going to show KJ's negligent on MJ's death, re proposed verdict form?

I believe they are no longer including Katherine.

This may have been covered already here, so I apologize if this is a repeat. But, I hear all the time that the Estate is paying Katherine's legal bill for this trial. Is that for real? And, if so, why on earth wouldn't she have to fund it out of whatever allowance she gets monthly?

well it's not certain. The thing is Estate is by court order have been paying Katherine's probate lawyers since 2009. then this happened

Katherine is asking for onetime payment of $205,401 to cover her professional fees occurred in 2011. Katherine is also asking for additional $34,700 per month to pay for her accountant and lawyers as well as to cover the expenses of family house in Gary Indiana and a residence in Las Vegas. Estate is asking the judge to allow this onetime payment and monthly increase.

as there's no legal expense we know for Katherine, and the need for these fees have started in 2011 (this lawsuit is filed september 2010), a lot of people assume that these numbers refer to this trial.

To be fair, Panish's website says "We make it affordable for you to pursue your case by not charging you any fees during the process of obtaining compensation. We understand that our clients are under significant emotional and financial strain in the aftermath of an accident. We do not burden you with more expenses to worry about. Our law firm works on a contingency fee basis, which means that you do not pay anything until we recover compensation for you."

But even though the lawyers aren't charging their own fees, I and I believe majority of the people having hard time to believe for example that Panish and Boyle fronting the hundreds of thousands of dollars of other fees such as deposition fees, expert witness fees. A normal case wouldn't take this long and require this in depth expert witnesses and such. So MJ trial isn't an average case.

Even that's the case and Katherine is not paying anything to her lawyers. If Katherine loses the lawsuit and is in a position where she's required to pay her lawyers and perhaps AEG lawyers, it's apparent that she would ask Estate to pay for it.

 

[Bubs]

I believe they are no longer including Katherine.

But even though the lawyers aren't charging their own fees, I and I believe majority of the people having hard time to believe for example that Panish and Boyle fronting the hundreds of thousands of dollars of other fees such as deposition fees, expert witness fees.

Even that's the case and Katherine is not paying anything to her lawyers. If Katherine loses the lawsuit and is in a position where she's required to pay her lawyers and perhaps AEG lawyers, it's apparent that she would ask Estate to pay for it.

Imo, its a shame KJ is out of verdict form.

Do you know can executors deny Katherine's any/some/none at all payment requests?
MJ's trust says that executors can give money for care, support, maintenance, comfort and well-being of KJ, but can they at any stage say, enough is enough, we are not giving you more money to pay lawyers or anyone else so they can get paid to throw MJ under the bus. I would not think paying lawyers salary or anything related to this trial does not fall under the care, support, maintenance, comfort or well-being of KJ.
In case she loses, AEG will make her to pay their salary, experts and didn't they say one of the documents that they'll sue KJ?
So she thinks that she can dump all those payments to the executors?

 

[passy001]

I believe they are no longer including Katherine.



well it's not certain. The thing is Estate is by court order have been paying Katherine's probate lawyers since 2009. then this happened

Katherine is asking for onetime payment of $205,401 to cover her professional fees occurred in 2011. Katherine is also asking for additional $34,700 per month to pay for her accountant and lawyers as well as to cover the expenses of family house in Gary Indiana and a residence in Las Vegas. Estate is asking the judge to allow this onetime payment and monthly increase.

as there's no legal expense we know for Katherine, and the need for these fees have started in 2011 (this lawsuit is filed september 2010), a lot of people assume that these numbers refer to this trial.

To be fair, Panish's website says "We make it affordable for you to pursue your case by not charging you any fees during the process of obtaining compensation. We understand that our clients are under significant emotional and financial strain in the aftermath of an accident. We do not burden you with more expenses to worry about. Our law firm works on a contingency fee basis, which means that you do not pay anything until we recover compensation for you."

But even though the lawyers aren't charging their own fees, I and I believe majority of the people having hard time to believe for example that Panish and Boyle fronting the hundreds of thousands of dollars of other fees such as deposition fees, expert witness fees. A normal case wouldn't take this long and require this in depth expert witnesses and such. So MJ trial isn't an average case.

Even that's the case and Katherine is not paying anything to her lawyers. If Katherine loses the lawsuit and is in a position where she's required to pay her lawyers and perhaps AEG lawyers, it's apparent that she would ask Estate to pay for it.

This also explains why the kids were dragged into this mess. to make it difficult for the Estate to deny paying the bills. Had KJ gone solo the Estate would have strongly opposed, almost accusing her of wasting the kids inheritance. now with the kids attached to the suit, the Estate can't use that argument.

 

[ivy]

I found this review and it I believe explains why Jacksons lawyers wanted a settlement and want to argue that AEG and Murray's responsibility as one and the same


Kevin was the Calif. attorney for our case in the wrongful death suit we filed against a company there. We live in Boise Idaho. Our daughter was killed in a plane crash at 25 years old. I felt that the company that recommended the pilot along with the pilot should be held accountable. To make a long story shorter, Kevin's recommendation to us was, "if they offer a settlement we should seriously think about accepting it because of how Calif law works." Which he explained to us. He explained that if we went to trial and the jury ruled that this company was at fault in any way at all, there would be a question of what percentage of blame that the jury felt the company was at fault for. They could say yes the company was to blame but because of how California law operates they maybe only feel that this company was just 10% to blame. which. Which would mean that if the settlement were for one million dollars our settlement would be one hundred thousand and then with attorney fees and court costs we would have nothing left. And he told us, "We don't want to go to trial!" Not only would it cost a lot of money but emotionally it would be a horrible thing to go through." The company did offer a settlement and we accepted it. Which turned out to be the "right" choice. The family of the friend of our daughter's that was also killed in this plane crash decided to go to trial. The ruling was that the pilot was 100% to blame and not the company we would have sued. Sadly they didn't win anything because the pilot had absolutely no assets, which we were aware of before we got to this point in our case.
I feel very lucky to have gotten Kevin Boyle for our case because of his expertise. We live in Boise, Idaho and our attorney here, Bob Huntsman felt like he was not experienced enough in aviation law, especially in Calif which was where the crash occurred. So he had done a search on the internet for attorney's that claimed to be experts in this area of the law and came across Clifford Law Offices which is based in Chicago. So we hired Kevin Durkin from that firm which in turn uses Kevin Boyle in Calif. Our attorney, Kevin Durkin told us that they use Kevin Boyle in Calif. was Kevin Boyle, because "he's the best! Calif law requires that we use an attorney from California when a suit is filed in their state. I feel like God was watching out for us because Kevin B. just sort of fell into our lap and he really is the best! We walked away from this horrible nightmare with answers, which was what I was looking for, as well as a settlement. The our daughter's friends family got basically nothing.

 

[ivy]

Do you know can executors deny Katherine's any/some/none at all payment requests?

the trust allows them to determine what is necessary but I don't think Estate will say no that's enough to Katherine. Contrary to the criticism Estate have been highly generous such as Segye Times.

In case she loses, AEG will make her to pay their salary, experts and didn't they say one of the documents that they'll sue KJ?

AEG can ask for legal fees, they might not be awarded those. Nothing is set in stone in trials. They did not say they'll sue Katherine, they said they'll defend themselves to clear their names and that implies a possibility of a defamation lawsuit but I don't think they'll pursue it. If AEG wins, they can simply say look there was no basis for these accusations, our names are cleared. I don't think they would pursue a lawsuit against Katherine and make themselves seem going after an old lady.

 

[Petrarose]

Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 21 Aug
.@shellywebstere AEG has said it wants to call Rebbie to the stand, and may re-call Katherine.

May re-call KJ?
I was wondering if AEG doesn't call KJ back on stand how they are going to show KJ's negligent on MJ's death, re proposed verdict form?

15. Was Katherine Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?
Yes / No
Please go on question 16.
16. Please identify the percentage of the total negligence and fault for Michael Jackson's death was due to conduct of Michael Jackson, Katherine Jackson and each defendant you answered yes in question 11. The percentages must add to 100%.
Michael Jackson ____%
Katherine Jackson____%
AEG Live ________%
AEG Live Productions____%
Gongaware _______%
Phillips _________%

So far I don't see AEG have brought the issue KJ negligency or wrongful conduct caused MJ's death to the trial, so if they don't call her, how they are going to show it in trial?

I would like to see Katherine back on the stand, & hopefully she stays on the full time. Has Rebbie recovered yet? She will be good for AEG, since she will talk about the intervention when LaToya asked if she should take her purse.

Ivy that was a good story you posted there about the plane crash. I see the person is thanking Kevin, but they won because the company went for a settlement. What if the company said NO we are going to court, and then the court did the same thing that happened to the other family. So, you can be happy with Kevin, but it only works if the other side agrees with a settlement. I am sure after the other verdict the company was mad that they gave a settlement.

Panish must have gone in thinking there would be a settlement, which is a bad idea. Maybe he might have told Randy don't worry, AEG will settle because they don't want to harm their image.

I like that California law about the percent, because it can helps decrease the filing of cases by people who like to go after big companies with money. The jury can say AEG is liable about 10%. I wonder if the jury might think the employee is only liable about 40% since the deceased made that choice to use prof?

 

[Member Service]

Please discuss this topic without personal attacks or insults toward one another. Try your best to keep you posts respectful in Tone to each other. Also do not call people you are discussing out of their names in this thread as per the Posting guidelines and policy of MJJC. Its not necessary to be rude when posting your views. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[ivy]

Ivy that was a good story you posted there about the plane crash.

that Boyle review I thought was helpful in many regards.

The pilot and the company were seen as separate - goes against what Jacksons want to argue that Murray's responsibility is AEG's responsibility.

Boyle also referred to "percentage of blame" would be put on the company and how it could be low and why that's a reason to accept a settlement. This should I think also explain why AEG has chosen to go on a route of put the responsibility on someone else.

 

[8701girl]

I just found out today that one of our australian shows has interviwed katerine jackson recently and it will be shown this weekend or next weekend.

 

[twinklEE]

I just found out today that one of our australian shows has interviwed katerine jackson recently and it will be shown this weekend or next weekend.

She probably got a handsome sum to spew more garbage, blame and deny Michael dignity whatsoever. Why is this 85 year old woman still giving interviews? Hasn't she done enough already?!

 

[Petrarose]

I expect it will not clear up anything but we will hear the usual stories about the children and Michael. It seems she is still in grief so why go all over talking about your sons private information, even though the media already knows it. Just say: "I will not discuss my sons' private information in public. That is the least I can do for him as a mother."

Oh I think they will move this to the other thread.

 

[twinklEE]

I expect it will not clear up anything but we will hear the usual stories about the children and Michael. It seems she is still in grief so why go all over talking about your sons private information, even though the media already knows it. Just say: "I will not discuss my sons' private information in public. That is the least I can do for him as a mother."

Oh I think they will move this to the other thread.

She is probably grieving the fact that Michael is not here anymore to give her expensive gifts, harass and exploit. I refuse to believe she is grieving anything else.

 

[Soundmind]

I expect it will not clear up anything but we will hear the usual stories about the children and Michael. It seems she is still in grief so why go all over talking about your sons private information, even though the media already knows it. Just say: "I will not discuss my sons' private information in public. That is the least I can do for him as a mother."

Oh I think they will move this to the other thread.

She's weak when it comes to money , she can't resist $$$$$$$$$$$$ .

 

[Aquarius]

Can AEG ask Katherine how much she has earned from all the interviews & contracts she made after Michael died? Actually I want them to ask her, how much she had financially benefitted as a result of Michael's death?

 

[8701girl]

She probably got a handsome sum to spew more garbage, blame and deny Michael dignity whatsoever. Why is this 85 year old woman still giving interviews? Hasn't she done enough already?!

If i was a mother and my son was a celebrity who passed away i wouldnt do interviews, id rather be left in peace not have cameras in my face all the time. But i guess being infront of cameras is all she knows and is the reason why she wont stop now

 

[Bubs]

Any information who takes the stand today?

Ps, I checked court docs and it seems something is going on about Ratner, so his testimony or deposition might be the soon
08/26/2013 Miscellaneous-Other (COMBINED STATEMENT OF DEFTS DESIGNATION PLTFS COUNTER- DESIGNATIONS AND RELATED OBJECT. FOR DR. NEIL RATNER AND ORDERS )
Filed by Attorney for Defendant/Respondent

 

[ivy]

^^

those are deposition videos. you can see that defendants - AEG- have stated which parts they want to play (designations), plaintiffs - Jackson- have stated which parts they want to play (counter designations) and the judge ruled on those (order).

Van Valin and Ratner videos are ready. They are having an issue with Metzger.

Jacksons do not want AEG to play Metzger deposition.

First Jacksons say Metzger is not a "treating physician" because he retired January 2013. AEG disagrees and says according to the law treating physician is a physician who have treated the patient and it doesn't require the doctor to be still practicing medicine. and Metzger still has an active license.

then Jacksons say they wanted to call Metzger live in their case but they couldn't because he was out of town. AEG says they had no problems in serving Metzger a trial subpoena and it doesn't matter. AEG is entitled to play Metzger's depo and Jacksons can call him live during rebuttal.

 

[jaydom7]

She is probably grieving the fact that Michael is not here anymore to give her expensive gifts, harass and exploit. I refuse to believe she is grieving anything else.

I agree twinklee.. her testimony centered on how MJ provided for her and gave her the necessities of life, yet she was clueless about his health issues and did absolutely nothing to help him get better.. This is all about the money for Katherine. If she missed him and at least cared about him she would've done something years ago to help him. She blames AEG for not doing anything when MJ was sick, losing weight, and had the chills, yet she didn't do anything either when he was suffering with those burns and seeking out doctors/plastic surgeons to relieve the pain.

 

[jaydom7]

so Metzger is suddenly retired? we learned from Debbie that he is the one that set up everything in Germany for the propofol sleep treatments with the doctors. so now he's retired?

 

[Big Apple2]

so Metzger is suddenly retired? we learned from Debbie that he is the one that set up everything in Germany for the propofol sleep treatments with the doctors. so now he's retired?

Is Metzger also the doctor who "helped" the cubs dupe Mother into going to Arizona or was that another doctor? I can't remember.

 

[jaydom7]

Is Metzger also the doctor who "helped" the cubs dupe Mother into going to Arizona or was that another doctor? I can't remember.

same Alan Metzger.. He was also Janet's doctor that prescribed her drugs under her chef's name.. He received a reprimand from the medical board for that. I am assuming Janet was still a patient of his at the time since he was the doctor that went to check on Katherine and told her she needed to leave because the stress was getting to her:mello: