Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[jaydom7]

just sad! Murray would've never noticed MJ not breathing because he wasn't even monitoring him:mat:

 

[crillon]

just sad! Murray would've never noticed MJ not breathing because he wasn't even monitoring him:mat:

That's the key point. Whether or not Murray knew about the chin lift doesn't matter. When he reached Michael--after yakking on the phone with his baby mama for at least 45 minutes-- it was too late to do anything to help MJ.

Every time I think back to the criminal trial and Dr. Shafer's testimony and the recklessness of Murray's behavior, it makes me so incredibly sad and angry. It's another reason why I can't get too worked up over this civil trial, which is all about the money.

 

[#MJforever57]

That Jeffrey Adams testimony was creepy! He was CM's bodyguard in that infamous document and all the time before CM was sent to jail. Mark my words, when CM comes out, those 2 will cook up some stories of MJ and sell them to tabloids.

He said he wasn't working for MJ but was working for him?
Q: At a point, didn't you work for MJ?
A: I didn't officially work for MJ, I orchestrated his staff. I didn't actually officially work 4 him

If he wasn't working for MJ, what business he has to be in the house?

"Adams said MJ wanted resume of Murray, if he could be trusted. "I said he's been my doctor, he's my friend, he definitely can be trusted."

uke:
------------
Murray presented himself and Jackson’s doctor and “spokesperson to some extent,” Gordon said. Gordon found the visit odd.

Spokesperson? Is he sure it was CM, as introducing CM as spokesperson is odd. Is he sure it wasn't Tohme?
----------
Adams finally told them he had to leave, and they asked him to hold on. Jackson and Murray came back into the room after a few more mins.
Murray looked upset by that point. Jackson asked Adams to accompany him on the “This Is It” tour, which took Dr. Adams by surprise.

I have a feeling that MJ told CM he want Adams to administer the propofol, thus CM looking upset as he wanted that money all for himself. CM was supposed to call back to Adams, he never did.

I'd like to know what CM told MJ about Adams?
Btw, I fully expecting another phonecall from jail to the tabloids. This months rent is due and CM needs to sing again.

I agree with your whole post.

You are right Michael wanted Adams because he gave Michael propofol before.

Murray didn't want to share this job with Dr. Adams he want this to be his and his alone.


Why did Murray need a bodyguard?

 

[#MJforever57]

^Sometimes I think that at the back of his mind was the idea that soon he would get a replacement or someone to help.

Something else that I wondered about: Michael had to sign the contract before AEG did. It was Muarry, then Michael, then AEG. So after Muarry signed it, was he supposed to give it to Michael to sign? When he went to the house that night wouldn't he take it to Michel and give him to sign? Why was it found in Muarry's car then without Micheal's signature. If it was me and I knew that in a few days we will be in London, before I put Michael to sleep, I would handle all the paperwork, like Michael signing my contract.

Could it be that after Muarry signed it he was supposed to send it back to AEG and then AEG would send it to Michael? Then, Michael send it back to AEG and AEG sign it? Maybe that was the protocol.

I beleve that too that Michael did want another person to be there.

I find it odd that Murray sign this contract and fax it back to AEG on June 24 that didn't make any sense. Murray should have gave it to the next person because faxing it back to AEG he was missing two signature Michael and AEG so that contract was invaild imo.

I think it should have been Murray sign not fax it back but then give it to AEG then Michael.
I believe Murray want him money right away imo.

 

[#MJforever57]

That's the key point. Whether or not Murray knew about the chin lift doesn't matter. When he reached Michael--after yakking on the phone with his baby mama for at least 45 minutes-- it was too late to do anything to help MJ.

Every time I think back to the criminal trial and Dr. Shafer's testimony and the recklessness of Murray's behavior, it makes me so incredibly sad and angry. It's another reason why I can't get too worked up over this civil trial, which is all about the money.

And you are right this trial is all about the money.

 

[glennkill]

I believe it is standard procedure, my step daughter was given too much morphine after wisdom tooth operation and the intensive care nurse kept doing chin lifts on her every time she stopped breathing, I don't know if her tongue was in the way or if it simply opens up the airways so more air get get through. We need a medical professional on here.

When you sleep very deep your tongue falls back, because the muscles are relaxed, and obturates the larynx; with a simple chin lift you can lift up the tongue and the patient can breathe by himself again.

 

[ivy]

I don't know, I think I'm more confused today than I was yesterday. Michael died of acute propofol intoxication, right? I think I only every hear part of the cause and then my brain just shuts the rest out.

I went back to Dr. Shafer's testimony


examples of what can go wrong.

First example is when blood pressure drops. Dr. Shafer says this is very common and they see it everyday. Propofol lowers blood pressure especially if the patient is dehydrates. Doctor gives ephedrine through the IV line. Generally blood pressure comes to normal levels.

Second example is carbon dioxide. The monitor shows that carbon dioxide stopped. It means the patient is not exhaling and the airway is obstructed. Doctor immediately does chin lift and jaw thrust. Dr. Shafer this is also done very routinely. Shafer says the most common reason is because the tongue is blocking the airway and by doing a chin lift and jaw thrust you can move the tongue.

Third example is apnea. This is when the patient doesn't even try to breath. In this instance you need to take over for the patient and force air into the lungs. Doctor removes the nasal cannula, places the mask on the patient's mouth and nose and squeeze the bag to push oxygen into the lungs.

Fourth example is aspiration (not shown on video). This is when the patient vomits and/or stomach contents come to the mouth. Patient is turned sideways and before the next breath you need to suction everything.

Fifth example is cardiac arrest. Heart stops beathing and the patient stops breathing.

and this

Walgren asks Dr. Shafer assume that CM had left only for 2 minutes and CM had the equipment if MJ could have been saved? Dr. Shafer says yes and probably MJ had an obstructed airway and even a simple chin lift might have been required to save MJ. Shafer says that CM says he didn't use the ambu bag. Shafer says mouth to mouth is less effective and gives used air.

and

Shafer says that Propofol acts in the brain and it's the brain makes you fall asleep or stop breathing.

there's also the Q&A we did with him but I won't copy it here.

This is what understood from Dr. Shafer: He believed Murray put Michael on an IV drip. Michael stopped breathing for whatever reason ( more about it later). There was a 10 minute window to restart his breathing. As he doesn't breath the oxygen levels drop. 10 minutes later the heart stops and Michael died. The IV was still running and Propofol continued to flow to his body. As Michael was dead, Propofol wasn't metabolized and therefore his body had high levels of Propofol. The death was determined to be due to Propofol.

Propofol affects the brain so it basically like it shuts down the brain. The five things that can go wrong lists 2 main reasons for breathing stopping. Either an airway blockage - the tongue, or that the brain is just so under the effect of Propofol that it doesn't remember to breath. I don't think we know for certain what made Michael stop breathing, whether it's the tongue blocking the airway or just stop breathing.

Some people experience sleep apnea. When they go to sleep, their throat muscles and tongue relax, the tongue falls back and blocks the airway. As the brain is active during regular normal sleep, brain realizes that the oxygen levels are dropping and it sends a "breathe" alert to the throat, moving the muscles, and basically making the person gasp so that the tongue moves and they start breathing.

so you can see even if it was just a tongue blocking the airway, the reason why Michael's brain did not realize the low oxygen levels and restart the breathing was due to Propofol. Propofol shut down the brain. (this is also the reason why Dr. Shafer said Michael did not feel anything and it was a painless death). So whether the breathing stopped on its own or the body not being able to handle tongue blockage or any other reason is due to Propofol's effect on the brain. So the cause of death is Propofol intoxication.

This also shows again that Michael's life could have been saved if only Murray properly monitored him. As similar to what Dr. Shafer said, Dr. Adams said that 4 times Michael's tongue blocked his airway and he was able to open it with a chin lift. Dr.Fournier experienced Michael stop breathing for no apparent reason but he was able to breath for him 2-3 times and get him through the surgery. So if only Murray properly monitored Michael.

 

[MIST]

I suppose I can say that technical I understand what probably happened but I never can understand Murrays behavior.
I never understand why Michael had to die, Murray had all reasons to keep him alive .
It wasn´t fair to Michael what happened and this trial should never have happened.

 

[Tygger]

AEG’s defense is purposefully muddled and I truly hope the jurors can see pass the confusion.

Adams’ testimony humanized the doctor that killed Michael by showcasing a man who would put his life in danger for the doctor without pay.

Gordon’s testimony was an addition to the “Michael, the secretive addict, seeks morphine by asking his doctors for it in 2003” defense. However, on Michael's last visit in 2007, he administered NO pain medication to Michael.

Dr. Adams’ testimony showcased the difference between an authentic anesthesiologist administering anesthesia for valid dental procedures and the negligent cardiologist who did not as his criminal trial further proved. Michael asked for Dr. Adams to join him on tour yet the killer doctor hindered Dr. Adams. Dr. Adams presents a portrait of the killer that is opposite Adams’ humanizing testimony. How will this be manipulated to fault Michael that Dr. Adams did not join him on the TII tour when Michael requested him as well?

 

[jaydom7]

Adams being an anesthesiologist and knowing how dangerous propofol can be should've reported Murray to the medical board knowing he was going to be attempting this by himself for a non-medical reason.

 

[ivy]

Adams being an anesthesiologist and knowing how dangerous propofol can be should've reported Murray to the medical board knowing he was going to be attempting this by himself for a non-medical reason.

did Adams know that? What Adams knew was that they were looking for a second person and his request was too high. Even in his own testimony he says he did not totally realize he would be giving anesthesia.

 

[Mneme]

If Dr. Adams had accepted the offer, or rather, if Murray had not prevent him from working for Michael, if it was he who had anesthetized Michael this June 2009, Michael would have been still there among us for sure.

Sorry, laeticia, but unfortunately i cant't see that.

Gordon, Adams spoke about 2002/03/07 and it looks like Michael got ONE Propofol threatement each time. (so I understand it)
On the other hand since the beginning of may (2009) Michael was receiving P. 6 nights a week constantly 'til to 06.25.
There is no body and no hearth who can cope with that because it is toooo much.

Then, he testified, Jackson said, “I would like for you to help me get my rest.” That didn’t make sense to Adams. When Jackson told him that after all the action in his show he sometimes needed an IV, Adams told him that was Murray’s purview.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...ws-Only-(no-discussion)?p=3892245#post3892245

to Adams Michael said "sometimes" he neededed "an IV". Then, in the beginning of may, Michael needed it every night?
Why?
Really: we should look at the events in end of april and first half from may! There is pretty much more than 'AEG pressure'!

And the same is: What was in 2002/3? Why needed Michael P. and Demerol in this time?
Do you remember at his Merchandising-story with sony and Wiesner and how it was stolen his HIStory-Logo? et cetera... et cetera...

 

[jamba]

@Tygger
if the ONLY PROOF is a conviction, why are you so convinced in this case before us that one side has the Truth. You said your posts bring "objectivity and balance" to this thread. Objectivity and balance also means considering the all the evidence, not blindly taking a position No matter what.

 

[Joyce]

(think of Smooth Criminal---Annie are you OK?)--As a teenager I took a CPR class as many others have done. It's true that you do ask, Annie (or name of person) are OK? If you establish that the person needs CPR, you immediately tilt the head back which opens the airway if it is obstructed. Also, tilting the head to the side in case of aspiration. I know most of you know about CPR, but I just wanted to reiterate how simple a task it is to do and it's one of the very first things you do. One CPR class...and you know this. Murray didn't know basic CPR!!

 

[Petrarose]

I don't know but this information about Michael large tongue had me thinking of other things as well. Wink, Wink

Can anyone figure out why Muarry wrote a check to pay Micahel's doctor's bill? Michael had an advance from AEG. Did Muarry want to give the impression that he was very useful, indispensable to Michael.

 

[crillon]

I don't know but this information about Michael large tongue had me thinking of other things as well. Wink, Wink

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to go there...hehe

 

[Aquarius]

@ Petra. And I guess you can't say what those thoughts were. You are a bad girl.

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 5m
Sure enough, Jackson’s tongue blocked his airway during each of the four procedures, Dr. Adams said. He was able to quickly remedy it.

Even when Schafer gave his explanations about the tongue blocking the airway, to me, Adam's testimony sounds worst. That makes me ask If that happened during each procedure with Adams, did it also happened with Conrad too? Did he lift his chin? Did Adams made that up?

I can't believe it never happened with Conrad if that happened with Adams on each procedure.

 

[Petrarose]

^^I always questioned that Muarry was giving Michael prof for all those weeks, and after hearing this testimony, I question it even more. If what Adams is saying is true, then at several points during Muarry's watch, Michel would have stopped breathing. Did Michael's brain send a message for Michael to breath all the other times, and then Michael breathed, until finally on the 25 prof stopped the brain from sending messages?

 

[GreenEyes]

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 5m
Sure enough, Jackson’s tongue blocked his airway during each of the four procedures, Dr. Adams said. He was able to quickly remedy it.

Even when Schafer gave his explanations about the tongue blocking the airway, to me, Adam's testimony sounds worst. That makes me ask If that happened during each procedure with Adams, did it also happened with Conrad too? Did he lift his chin? Did Adams made that up?

I can't believe it never happened with Conrad if that happened with Adams on each procedure.

Actually, Dr. Shafer reported back during the Murray criminal trial that it was most likely that Michael chocked to death on his own tongue. And now hearing this Dr. today makes it seem very likely a possibility. This makes me so sick and angry!!:angry: This was reported back in 2011. Maybe it did happen with Murray before and he was able to intercept, but unfortunately for Michael, Murray was too busy on the phone that one time and out of the room not watching him.

-----------------------------------------

Expert: 'A simple chin lift' could've saved Michael Jackson


By Alan Duke, CNN

updated 8:35 PM EDT, Wed October 19, 2011


Los Angeles (CNN) -- Michael Jackson "most likely" died because his tongue blocked the back of his throat, but he could have been saved if Dr. Conrad Murray had used "a simple chin lift" when he realized the pop icon had stopped breathing, an anesthesiologist testified Wednesday.

A cardiologist previously testified in Murray's involuntary manslaughter trial that he thought Jackson died of respiratory arrest, but Dr. Steven Shafer expanded on the theory, saying, "The most likely thing that happened was airway obstruction."

"Michael Jackson was trying to breathe, but the tongue had fallen in the back of the throat," Shafer said. "Either a simple chin lift, just that alone, or an oral airway to move the tongue out of the way might well have been all that was required to save his life."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/19/justice/california-conrad-murray-trial

 

[8701girl]

It would be to his great advantage to have MJ sign the contract Asap so why wouldn't he, if Michael would have lived. The fact he hid bottles after his death and is a douchebag has nothing to do with that. Plus Murray had to tie up some loose ends first concerning the insurance etc. before the contract could be excepted. (which I believe it was stated he was doing that morning on the phone or internet, while MJ lay abandoned and unattended.)

I don't remember if it was stated that any instructions were sent to Murray as far as how the contract should be signed. Maybe similar to what Petrarose suggested, he was suppose to turn it back to AEG first and then they would sign it together with MJ and attorneys present. Being Branca was now on board, I'm sure he would be present for any MJ signatures on contracts. That seems the most logical way to do it. But all we can do is speculate.

It just seems to me for some reason conrat was hiding the contract for soem reason i dont know cuz when it comes to conrat hes too fishy

 

[ivy]

Can anyone figure out why Muarry wrote a check to pay Micahel's doctor's bill? Michael had an advance from AEG. Did Muarry want to give the impression that he was very useful, indispensable to Michael.

I think Murray paid the bill in 2007.

their relationship seems to be quite interesting


------------------------------------------------

Hi, Tygger

sorry to butt in

there is no conviction.

there's a simple solution to this one. just refer to it as "allegations of attempted rape". As for convictions: there are two or three brothers with not paying child support and Randy with domestic violence and bankruptcy fraud.

You said your posts bring "objectivity and balance" to this thread. Objectivity and balance means considering the evidence, not blindly taking a position NO MATTER WHAT.

To be fair, Tygger is bringing some balance. Some opinions are more common on this thread then others. Tygger is not the only one but does bring a balance.

Objectivity on the other hand , no. I agree that objectivity is willing to listen to the evidence and be flexible to change opinions as the evidence presented. Tygger does refuse to even read the actual documents posted and believes everything Panish says.

I believe no one here is free of bias (and yeah that includes me too if it's not clear) but people have different levels of willingness to consider evidence and listen to the opposite side.

if the ONLY PROOF is conviction, why are you so convinced in this case before us that one side has the Truth

that's the biggest double standard among MJ fans - and it's to this case, we all have it. I wrote this on another thread 2 days ago. We as MJ fans at 2005 said innocent until proven guilty, today repeat the not guilty verdict and ask people / public to read about the case to learn the facts. You would expect "innocent until proven guilty" principle apply to everyone but no it only applies to Michael and Jacksons in some instances. Other people that we think did something wrong, can be judged and executed by us. We don't need lawsuits or verdicts.

In this thread we have all kinds of opinions such as Tygger's strong opinion that Katherine should win and get the full damages amount, other people thinking AEG should win and some people that don't care either way or able to accept whatever verdict.

That being said , I have a question for Tygger. What if the verdict says AEG is not liable? Is that a verdict that you can accept that a jury found AEG not liable ?

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

Actually, Dr. Shafer reported back during the Murray criminal trial that it was most likely that Michael chocked to death on his own tongue. And now hearing this Dr. today makes it seem very likely a possibility. This makes me so sick and angry!!:angry: Maybe it did happen with Murray before and he was able to intercept, but unfortunately for Michael, Murray was too busy on the phone that one time and out of the room not watching him.

I agree. I don't care what anybody says about how Michael died. I think he could have been saved if somebody had been paying attention.

 

[Tygger]

Jamba, An accusation is not a conviction! Let me add for Ivy that an allegation of attempted rape and convictions non-payment of child support, domestic violence, and bankruptcy fraud are not equivalent to a rape conviction either.

This is a discussion thread for the current civil trial which means each poster can express their views in support of the side they prefer. Jamba, please do not suggest my views are blind only because I do not share the views of the majority here. As for Maldonado’s book, I have read it (you assume incorrectly that I did not) and thoroughly enjoyed it; many of her accounts were rather humorous to me.

Objectivity on the other hand , no. I agree that objectivity is willing to listen to the evidence and be flexible to change opinions as the evidence presented. Tygger does refuse to even read the actual documents posted and believes everything Panish says.

I believe no one here is free of bias (and yeah that includes me too if it's not clear) but people have different levels of willingness to consider evidence and listen to the opposite side.

Ivy, It is crystal clear you have supported the defense while I have supported the plaintiffs. I have read every court transcript, tweet, article, and your summaries (!) and I am objective enough to state when AEG has been supported by witnesses; particularly Rowe. I simply have not found AEG's defense to be very strong.

Yes, I do find Panish to be quite believable oftentimes. I do not know how believable Putnam is for you but, I do know you have been very supportive of AEG defending themselves in your posts.

That being said, I have a question for Tygger. What if the verdict says AEG is not liable? Is that a verdict that you can accept that a jury found AEG not liable?

Ivy, maybe you did not read my past posts or the responses to them. I have no issue if that is the case however, I already asked a similar question in this thread. I stated if AEG is found not liable, it will be because Panish’s team failed to show it was more than likely that AEG negligently hired the doctor specifically through the testimonies of the adverse witnesses for the plaintiffs. For me, those adverse witnesses were the core of this case and their testimonies will assist the jury in deciding AEG’s fate.

I personally do not believe AEG will be found not liable as Panish’s team did a great job showing no background check was performed. I believe Panish gave a strong case that hiring occurred based on the relationship between the doctor/MJ/AEG where no relationship existed between Michael/AEG and other paid through advances.

I am very interested in how the judge will decide the amendment (on Michael's birthday no less) and if she will remove Phillips/Gongaware as defendants. I have not decided how I felt about those two issues as of yet.

May I ask again: is there a chance that MJJC will be able to do a Q&A with both Panish and Putnam when the trial is over? That would be truly amazing.

 

[Bubs]

"Dr. Adams said MJ told him he wanted to build a children's hospital. He talked about his family, kids, everything."

He talked about that children's hospital in that CM's infamous recording too. This is a man who has massive money problems, but still was planning building children's hospital.
-----------
"We talked about Steven Spielberg, Bono, the tour. He didn't have good things to say about those people either."

I understand Spielberg, but what he had against Bono?

 

[Bubs]

I don't know but this information about Michael large tongue had me thinking of other things as well. Wink, Wink

Can anyone figure out why Muarry wrote a check to pay Micahel's doctor's bill? Michael had an advance from AEG. Did Muarry want to give the impression that he was very useful, indispensable to Michael.

Naughty Petrarose:cheeky:

Was MJ there only with CM? If there were just 2 of them, I would assume MJ didn't want or know how to write checks, and MJ may not have had his card or cash with him.
Don't know whether this is true or not, but KJ testified, MJ didn't write checks.

 

[#MJforever57]

Actually, Dr. Shafer reported back during the Murray criminal trial that it was most likely that Michael chocked to death on his own tongue. And now hearing this Dr. today makes it seem very likely a possibility. This makes me so sick and angry!!:angry: This was reported back in 2011. Maybe it did happen with Murray before and he was able to intercept, but unfortunately for Michael, Murray was too busy on the phone that one time and out of the room not watching him.

-----------------------------------------



http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/19/justice/california-conrad-murray-trial

I agree. I don't care what anybody says about how Michael died. I think he could have been saved if somebody had been paying attention.

I agree with both of you.

 

[#MJforever57]

Naughty Petrarose:cheeky:

Was MJ there only with CM? If there were just 2 of them, I would assume MJ didn't want or know how to write checks, and MJ may not have had his card or cash with him.
Don't know whether this is true or not, but KJ testified, MJ didn't write checks.

I remember a interview that Michael did he was in New York with Rev Al Sharpton and Michael said i just wrote a check it was for a large amount of money but don't know if Michael wrote the check or his ppls did. I think the person ask Michael or their heard that he was have money problem so that is why Michael said that to prove them wrong.

 

[jaydom7]

just sad... Murray had no business giving anesthesia in a house knowing the risks and then decides he won't even watch him

 

[MIST]

I wonder how much this trial has cost so far..I´m talking about money here not Nichael´s reputation..

 

[ivy]

Ivy, It is crystal clear you have supported the defense while I have supported the plaintiffs. I have read every court transcript, tweet, article, and your summaries (!) and I am objective enough to state when AEG has been supported by witnesses; particularly Rowe. I simply have not found AEG's defense to be very strong.

This is where you are wrong. I don't support the defense. I don't care if AEG loses and ordered to pay $1.5 billion, or $40 billion or everything they own to their underwear. I equally do not care if Jacksons loses. I also see important differences between us. You openly wanted Katherine to win and to get everything she wants. I have never advocated or wanted either side to win because as I said I don't care. So I don't see us as equal in that regard. I do think you are a lot more invested in this than I am.

What you see as "supporting" but what I see as evaluating is I read the documents in every case and I make my personal opinions based on the information presented to me. I don't feel the need to always agree with MJ Estate or Jacksons for that matter. For example when Ola Ray sued Michael and later Michael Estate and fans were angry with her, I wrote on MJJC and LSA that she deserved to be paid because the court documents I read showed me that she wasn't paid royalties since 1996. The fair evaluation would be she getting the money owed to her, not blindly be a cheerleader for Estate. Similarly - and as mentioned before- for almost a year or so I have been saying Lloyds have a stronger claim than Estate. To this date I haven't seen anything from Estate to convince me otherwise. And as you can see I don't feel the need to defend Michael Jackson Estate and if I believe they have a weak claim I have no problems to say so. As I said before , I'll evaluate the information. I won't blindly support Estate or Jacksons.

As for this trial if you go back to the older thread you will see that for over a year I have maintained "Murray hired by AEG" is truly a 50-50. I repeated that multiple times in this thread too. However personally I'm not convinced that the requirements for negligent hiring claim - mainly known or should have known part- had been proven. furthermore I don't think what happened is totally AEG's responsibility and no it got nothing to with what Putnam or others say. To just briefly mention them (I'll explain them in detail if asked)

- Michael had sleep problems - not tied to tours or specifically TII
- Michael had used Propofol before - not tied to tours or specifically TII
- Michael had control and choice over who he wanted as his doctor
- Nothing to show that AEG - or even other people including Michael's family- was aware of Propofol
- not convinced that a debt could make anyone reasonably foresee malpractice

I feel that some people are unwilling to listen to anything and everything the defense says and they look to other people willing as supporting the defense. Like you see yourself objective enough to determine when either party has a strong or weak argument, I think of my above opinions to be objective determinations - not supporting one side over the other.

I do not know how believable Putnam is for you

to be very clear and extremely blunt - I don't give a rat's ass about Putnam or any other AEG lawyers. Have you ever seen me comment about them and act like a cheerleader or fan of them? I don't. and it's kinda tied to the fact that I don't care if either party wins or loses so I don't need to champion for anyone in a "go team" mode. You come to this thread everyday with "panish was so wonderful" posts. I only care about testimony.

I do know you have been very supportive of AEG defending themselves in your posts.

Of course I'll be supportive of AEG or anyone else defending themselves. Everyone - regardless of our personal opinions about them - deserve their day in court, deserve a fair trial and a verdict determined by a jury of their peers. So obviously I'll support not AEG's but everyone's constitutional right of defending themselves. Also how a person defends themselves is their choice and their freedom. I'm annoyed as much as anyone here with the drug addict angle (and did not personally want this trial to happen in the first place due to it) but my or your annoyance with AEG's defense doesn't change the fact that AEG as a basic human right is entitled to defend themselves any way they please and see necessary. That's in my book being realistic.

May I ask again: is there a chance that MJJC will be able to do a Q&A with both Panish and Putnam when the trial is over? That would be truly amazing.

If there's interest we might try it but I'm pretty sure we will get attacked if we approach Putnam/ AEG , also as I expect an appeal regardless of the outcome I think parties might be unwilling to talk.