Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Petrarose, thanks--your point that AEG and Michael needed each other is what I think, too. I believe it was a good partnership and they would have gone forward with more projects post-TII--Murray put an end to all that.

After reading through the testimony today from AEG's finance expert, I'm thinking we're going into the four-month mark and we're no closer to understanding who hired Murray. Finances are being painfully dissected but what about a contract? And, this guy's characterization of Michael as a has-been is really difficult to bear. Although, I never expected AEG to roll over and not defend themselves--$40 billion is an obscene amount of money.

We all know who is responsible for this trial and TBH that's who I blame for throwing Michael under the bus.
 
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@Jamba I have never heard this before.

The neighbors objected to having MJ in the neighborhood, since they thought he was a ped---, and wrote a letter that upset him.


LastTear, re the neighbors in Vegas writing a letter re MJ living in their neighborhood, here is one reference:

"Michael Jackson's decision to live near a Las Vegas elementary school has upset some parents.

The former King of Pop, who moved back to Las Vegas late last year with his three children, is living on Palomino Lane, down the street from Wasden Elementary School.

A concerned mother sent several e-mails last week, saying, "Of all the residences he could have purchased ... why one across from an elementary school? I understand he was never convicted of anything ... and can live wherever he wants. ..."

I'm told Wasden's principal has a view of Jackson's home from her office.

He may not be staying long. According to the buzz in the real estate community, he's in escrow involving another property."

http://www.reviewjournal.com/norm-clarke/michael-jackson-living-near-school

There are other people who talked about this incident (the quote above is from a newspaper in Vegas) and how MJ was in tears about it. He was never convicted but the neighbors were acting like he should not be there. I will try and find another reference, but it happened. So sad.

It makes me mad the way the public presume hes guilty when there was no evidence whatsoever to say he did that :angry: mj is innocent1
 
what do you think?
1)you have an aging man who has not performed in 10 years.
2)you have a aging man who has a history of renegading on contractual agreements.
3) you have a aging man whose popularity was at all time low, inviting negative press almost on a daily basis.
4) you have a aging man whose record sales were shrinking.




as an independent investor, I would be very nervous to bet on someone like that.


Hold up what do u mean by "inviting negative press" it wasnt mjs fault that the media kept on harrasing him and making his life a living hell at times
 

@Jamba I have never heard this before.

The neighbors objected to having MJ in the neighborhood, since they thought he was a ped---, and wrote a letter that upset him.


LastTear, re the neighbors in Vegas writing a letter re MJ living in their neighborhood, here is one reference:

"Michael Jackson's decision to live near a Las Vegas elementary school has upset some parents.

The former King of Pop, who moved back to Las Vegas late last year with his three children, is living on Palomino Lane, down the street from Wasden Elementary School.

A concerned mother sent several e-mails last week, saying, "Of all the residences he could have purchased ... why one across from an elementary school? I understand he was never convicted of anything ... and can live wherever he wants. ..."

I'm told Wasden's principal has a view of Jackson's home from her office.

He may not be staying long. According to the buzz in the real estate community, he's in escrow involving another property."

http://www.reviewjournal.com/norm-clarke/michael-jackson-living-near-school

There are other people who talked about this incident (the quote above is from a newspaper in Vegas) and how MJ was in tears about it. He was never convicted but the neighbors were acting like he should not be there. I will try and find another reference, but it happened. So sad.

Very sad and so unfair--Michael was fully exonerated, but some people didn't believe the verdict and Michael had to suffer through that for the rest of his life.

I hate that all of this is being dug up again and Michael's kids may see it. Wish PP&B were still behind veils and in the arms of their father.
 
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MJ may not have been ready at first, but when he nearly lost Neverland I think he felt he had no choice but to go back to work.

About him supposedly being fooled about his profit, I'm not sure about that. The 30 million figure appears in an updated budget as I understand, done on June 24 - which seems taking into account the increased production cost, which was initially about $7 million and then went up to $35 million. So that would mean MJ's profits decreased. So that was not the initial profit presented to MJ for people to say he was fooled.

I'm sure he was aware that his profit would be getting smaller with the production costs going up.

And finally about Gongaware saying "we should throw the gross figure at MJ" - he strikes me as someone who talks outta his @ss in his private emails, just like his "let's remind Murray" comment. We don't know if they did anything like that and like it was mentioned already, I'm sure MJ and his lawyers knew the difference between net and gross.

Oh and btw, MJ's profits estimation did not include merchandise, future ppv and theatrical release, DVD sales and worldwide tv broadcast sales, so he was going to make a lot more than that.
 
Yes I remember that and most likely that is true - I don't believe Michael was under undue pressure to rehearse.

@Jamba I have never heard this before.
I think it was normal to want him to rehearse, I don't have any problem with that. And Michael was going to rehearsals.
The reaction from AEG when he started to miss rehearsals was undue pressure to me. From the beginning they assumed he was lazy or had psychological issues, when it was not the problem. Then when things kept getting worse, they ignored the problem and kept pressuring him and Murray.
For ex Randy Phillips showing up unnannounced at Carolwood, Gongaware's reaction (remind him..) when he heard that Michael had a sick day, the intervention meeting- mid june- with the broken vase that followed an email by Kenny saying Michael was not well, getting Murray to do his schedule, etc.. leading to the june 20th meeting. These things are undue pressure for me, and illegal according to their contract.

-------
Frankly I don't get all this talk about AEG acting almost like saints, who took risks with Michael and feeling the need to defend or "explain" everything they do or say.
Randy Phillips wrote that "Thriller 25" was Sony's best selling album in 08. He was there to make money, he saw an opportunity to make money with Michael. I don't see anything wrong with that.

They put all the risk on Michael- read the AEG-Michael contract. Again, Michael agreed to it- or Tohme did. I don't see anything wrong with that either, on AEG's part.
The fact that they did not include rehearsals in their contract, left part of the insurance to Tohme and let the cost fly without signature is their responsability as much as Michael's / Tohme's.

They knew very well who they were dealing with, it was their problem to anticipate and not put AEG at risk. That's what corporations do, they try to anticipate everything to avoid risks.

Gongaware had worked with Michael before, he was a tour manager of History. Phillips was told about insurance, he knew that Michael needed to be "controlled" for his spendings.

And stop saying they "advanced" 35 millions, they had the ticket sales money at the time. They advanced part of the ticket sales. They did not start production before they knew how the sales were going, which is a wise thing to do.

Their only problem would have been cancellation, having to refund those ticket sales, and Randy Phillips saw that could happen in june. It was a problem because AEG had not managed the situation correctly (no insurance / let the cost fly when they knew it was important to control those aspects). That's what led them to all those wrong reactions when things started to turn bad, and they used that to pressure Michael and Murray. They are in part responsible for that situation.
 
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this is what i understand from tweets re mj earnings from tti shows:

ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts
AEG's projection of what MJ would take home was a little over $20 million, according to the budget Strong showed.
Net Income, amount of money AEG Live projected MJ would take home had he performed all 50 shows at the O2 arena: little over $22 million
Alternative budget had projection of a little over $30 million, Strong showed.
Strong said the range AEG Live was projecting MJ would take home for performing all 50 concerts at O2 arena was between $22 and $30 million.

there was also a figure mentioned re merchandising:

ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts
Strong: And the merchandise projection AEG had was between $8 and $10 million, right?
Erk: Yes, that's what was in the budget

on top of the london shows, aeg had also projected earnings from a future world tour:

ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts
Panish asked Erk if he saw multiple AEG documents detailing plans for worldwide tour. ...
AEG projection is $132 million in the low end, $150 million in high end for less shows, less months, Erk said.

the mail from gongaware where he said it would be better to talk about gross vs net to mj was not about the london shows. it was about the world tour:

ABC7 Court News @ABC7Courts
Panish showed an email from Gongaware about MJ first draft of worldwide tour projection. It lists "net to Mikey $132 million."

Email: It's a big number, but this is not a number MJ will want to hear. He thinks he is so much bigger than that.
Email cont'd: If we use show income, it's over a quarter of a billion dollars. His net share works out to be 50% after local
Email cont'd: venue and advertising costs, which is quite good. His gross will approach $ half a billion.
Email cont'd: Maybe gross is a better number to throw around, if we need to use numbers with Mikey listening.

thus, from the projected world tour mj would have made a net of $132 million.
from the london shows mj would have made between $22 and $30 million.
merchandise would have generated between $8 and $10 million.
 
And stop saying they "advanced" 35 millions, they had the ticket sales money at the time. They advanced part of the ticket sales. They did not start production before they knew how the sales were going, which is a wise thing to do.

How about AEG "spent" $35 million on production costs that were Michael's responsibility? Here's that breakdown from the trial testimony:

[h=5]MJ was given $5 million in advance: $3 million was to pay settlement of a lawsuit, $100,000/month for Carolwood house lease. Trell said MJ was already in the house at Carolwood when they entered into the agreement. AEG was to assist MJ to get $15 million in credit line, or would advance the money, so MJ could buy a house in Las Vegas, Trell testified. (ABC7)[/h][h=5]Panish asked if AEG Live sent a letter to MJ's Estate after he died trying to recoup money. Trell said he didn't recall. Panish showed an AEG Live letter written to MJ's Estate with costs incurred for the tour. It was signed by AEG's CFO. "This report was sent to the Estate as an accounting and an effort to recoup the money based on the agreement," Trell said. The report indicated around $30 million had been spent on the production of the tour. (AP)[/h]
 
How about AEG "spent" $35 million on production costs that were Michael's responsibility? Here's that breakdown from the trial testimony:

[h=5]MJ was given $5 million in advance: $3 million was to pay settlement of a lawsuit, $100,000/month for Carolwood house lease. Trell said MJ was already in the house at Carolwood when they entered into the agreement. AEG was to assist MJ to get $15 million in credit line, or would advance the money, so MJ could buy a house in Las Vegas, Trell testified. (ABC7)[/h][h=5]Panish asked if AEG Live sent a letter to MJ's Estate after he died trying to recoup money. Trell said he didn't recall. Panish showed an AEG Live letter written to MJ's Estate with costs incurred for the tour. It was signed by AEG's CFO. "This report was sent to the Estate as an accounting and an effort to recoup the money based on the agreement," Trell said. The report indicated around $30 million had been spent on the production of the tour. (AP)[/h]

Did you read the part of my post that you quoted ? WHEN did they spend those 35 millions ?
Would they have done it if Michael had only sold 10 tickets ? Of course not.
 
I agree with Bouee, Bonnie Blue and Soundmind. The below in particular stood out to me and needs to be re-quoted. It speaks to AEG not performing a background check on the doctor they allegedly hired which lead to negligent hiring.

bouee;3877410 said:
EDIT : my opinion as to why they don't seem to want to dwell too much on Murray's negligence & incompetence , is because THAT was foreseeable. Not propofol.

AEG was never going to pull the plug on TII; the best they would do is what they did: postpone. The only way they could be number one is to get number one; enter Michael. To cancel TII would mean complete embarrassment and failure in their quest to be number one over LiveNation. Every male AEG employee who testified it was preferable and satisfactory to be number two was unbelievable.

AEG allowed the production budget to go beyond the original, agreed upon amount of approximately $7.5M to approximately $30M+ without ONE written approval signature from Michael or someone representing Michael. Why? AEG held no risk. Even after the star passed, AEG recouped the pre-production costs from his estate. The only loss I can see is returning ticket purchases but, they more than made up for that with the TII movie/DVD sales. I oftentimes believe the only reason AEG wanted Michael at rehearsal was to get the footage needed for the behind-the-scenes which later became the TII movie. Good thing Michael showed up for some rehearsals.

Tohme worked for Michael AND AEG. Not one AEG employee would classify Tohme as an employee or independent contractor so, whatever title one feels works here should be acceptable.

The defense is making a mistake with this witness and this path they are on. They are portraying Michael as extremely unsavory and too huge a risk to deal with. They are making the cross easy for Panish. It is not logical for AEG to partner with the person that they are portraying Michael to be.

I expect the defense to say Michael could not do 260 shows however; he now may not have done 50 shows? If Michael would not be able to complete 50 shows as per Briggs, why did AEG commit Michael to 19 shows over the contracted 31 shows? If Michael’s Q scores were so low and no scores existed past 2006, why did AEG court Michael after 2006? Lastly, Briggs suggests Michael had a history of cancelling shows and drug usage. I thought Michael’s drug usage was a secret.

I hope Panish will ask Briggs about the disparity between the estate’s estimate of $100M from the TII tour and AEG’s projection of maybe $22-$30M. Was the estate mistakenly using the gross figures for TII ($94-$107M)? I wonder if the tallies for all of the top tours were adjusted for inflation when compared to Michael’s. I am so glad Panish asked about how much this expert is receiving for this testimony. I felt he may be the highest paid witness on both sides as he and his team were paid for quite a number of hours. I hope AEG finds this to be money well spent; it may cost them big.
 
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Did you read the part of my post that you quoted ? WHEN did they spend those 35 millions ?
Would they have done it if Michael had only sold 10 tickets ? Of course not.

Maybe AEG should have waited for the insurance policies to be approved, too. Regardless of the ticket sales, it was still a risk, especially when you consider how it all played out. AEG had to refund the money for those tickets and request a refund from the Estate to cover the production costs. If the Estate couldn't write that check, AEG would have been out that money.
 
Maybe AEG should have waited for the insurance policies to be approved, too. Regardless of the ticket sales, it was still a risk, especially when you consider how it all played out. AEG had to refund the money for those tickets and request a refund from the Estate to cover the production costs. If the Estate couldn't write that check, AEG would have been out that money.

yes, and that was easy to anticipate. Randy Phillips was told about it, but they chose to leave it to Michael's manager. They should have done it themselves, to make sure to have one before the spending began, back in january when they signed the contract with Michael. That's their mistake as well as Tohme's, who should not have accepted that.
 
^^^Apologies Crillon because, I see you are directing that to Bouee. There was no risk. If the estate could not pay, Michael's assets would most likely be sold to cover the debt.
 
^^^Apologies Crillon because, I see you are directing that to Bouee. There was no risk. If the estate could not pay, Michael's assets would most likely be sold to cover the debt.

Exactly, they were relying on Michael's assets, I don't believe they would make such a mistake, but that's just my opinion..... That would have been covered, until the spendings got out of hand, with no signature... so was Michael kept up to date with the spendings ?
 
so was Michael kept up to date with the spendings ?

Unfortunately, I do not know or have an answer for that. I believe Michael must have noticed the production was getting bigger but, I cannot speak to him knowing the millions that were being spent and seeing his debt growing.
 
^^^Apologies Crillon because, I see you are directing that to Bouee. There was no risk. If the estate could not pay, Michael's assets would most likely be sold to cover the debt.

No problem, Tygger.
AEG had no crystal ball on Michael's assets and debts, who would be the Executor (imagine if it had been Joe or Randy:bugeyed), how many lawsuits would be filed, etc. Insurance covers it, so you don't have uncontrolled variables and without it they had exposure.
 
No problem, Tygger.
AEG had no crystal ball on Michael's assets and debts, who would be the Executor (imagine if it had been Joe or Randy:bugeyed), how many lawsuits would be filed, etc. Insurance covers it, so you don't have uncontrolled variables and without it they had exposure.
AEG made that decision to go without sickness insurance and let the costs go up. They have accountants who kept the budgets up to date every time a dollar was spent. If they had anticipated and managed things correctly, they would have been in a different situation when problems began in june, and might have reacted differently then.
They are concert promoters, it's their job. Someone wrote to Phillips "insurance is key"... then why leave it to Tohme ?
 
AEG made that decision to go without sickness insurance and let the costs go up. They have accountants who kept the budgets up to date every time a dollar was spent. If they had anticipated and managed things correctly, they would have been in a different situation when problems began in june, and might have reacted differently then.
They are concert promoters, it's their job. Someone wrote to Phillips "insurance is key"... then why leave it to Tohme ?

I agree and I don't understand why they did that--carelessness?
 
Exactly, they were relying on Michael's assets, I don't believe they would make such a mistake, but that's just my opinion..... That would have been covered, until the spendings got out of hand, with no signature... so was Michael kept up to date with the spendings ?

Idk about the spending, I would think Michael would know enough to have some idea, but really it's down to Michaels people beng on top of AEG's people. I was under the impression that much of the increased production spending was down to Michael and his artistic vision, I may be wrong though.
 
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 10h
Rebbie Jackson was to testify on Wednesday but is sick. Other witnesses expected this week: Debbie Rowe and Randy Jackson via video depo.
__________

AEG Live lawyer Marvin Putnam said Rowe, the King of Pop's ex-wife and the birth mother of his oldest son and daughter, "probably" will be called to testify but not until other witnesses including Michael's oldest sibling Rebbie Jackson take the stand.
Jurors also are expected to hear videotaped deposition testimony from Michael's youngest brother Randy Jackson, he said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-testify-week-article-1.1412338#ixzz2aVxXJ2kJ
 
Annita;3878061 said:
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 10h
Rebbie Jackson was to testify on Wednesday but is sick. Other witnesses expected this week: Debbie Rowe and Randy Jackson via video depo.
__________

AEG Live lawyer Marvin Putnam said Rowe, the King of Pop's ex-wife and the birth mother of his oldest son and daughter, "probably" will be called to testify but not until other witnesses including Michael's oldest sibling Rebbie Jackson take the stand.
Jurors also are expected to hear videotaped deposition testimony from Michael's youngest brother Randy Jackson, he said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-testify-week-article-1.1412338#ixzz2aVxXJ2kJ

So Rebbie is going to the the stand but Randy isn't, not good, should be the other way.
This is what Debbie is going to be talking:
Putnam says Michael became really good in hiding his addiction. He says even Michael was abusing painkillers in private, Propofol was even more private. Putnam says Jackson attorney said Propofol was something that happened after Murray came into the picture but that’s not true. Putnam says the jury will see that sometime in the 1990s with the help of the doctors Michael started to use Propofol to help him sleep. He says this was a big secret. So big secret that before this lawsuit no one knew, not even Michael’s regular doctors. His family didn’t know. Karen Faye didn’t know. People that worked with him for year, 20 years did not know. His mother did not know. His children did not know. His security guards did not know. His staff did not know. AEG did not know.

Putnam says Debbie Rowe knew about it. He says before she married to Michael, she was Klein’s nurse. Putnam says they don’t know why or how but early 90s Michael started to use Propofol in connection with surgical procedures. Putnam says Rowe will testify that she saw several doctors get Michael to sleep with Propofol in hotel rooms while on tour. She remembers Michael being given Propofol in Munich, London and Paris. Rowe said she knew it was dangerous and she would always insist on being on his side and made sure there were two anesthesiologist there to make sure Michael woke up.
 
What did Donny Osmond say that was bad about Michael Jackson in his autobio? I read that book years ago and do not remember him stating anything bad. Donny has always been decent about Michael.

AliCat;3876095 said:
Dr. Scott David Saunders — Profile Summary
Dr. Scott David Saunders practices Family Practice in Solvang, CA

Dr. Saunders graduated from University Of California, Los Angeles, Ucla School Of Medicine, Los Angeles California with an MD 21 years ago. He had his residency training of Family Medicine at Northridge Hospital Medicine Center.
http://simplee.com/doctors/scott-david-saunders

Dr. Scott Saunders said he treated Jackson from 1998 through 2003, his first contact coming when the singer asked if he made house calls. Saunders said he visited Jackson at Neverland Ranch and treated him for an upper respiratory infection.

Lupus --- The most common infections are in the respiratory tract (colds, sore throats, sinusitis, bronchitis, and pneumonia), the urinary tract (bladder or kidney infections), and the skin (boils, cellulitis, and infected cuts).

http://www.lupus.org/webmodules/webarticlesnet/templates/new_empty.aspx?articleid=600&zoneid=76

Dr. Scott David Saunders practices Family Practice in Solvang, CA and because of the close proximity to "Neverland," Michael Jackson liked that Dr. Scott Saunders could treat Michel and his children and best of all, Dr. Scott Saunders could make house calls. It sounds like Michael went to see this particular doctor because of his lupus condition, in which the most common infections are in the respiratory tract.

Michael Jackson stipulated to Dr. Scott Saunders that he did not want demerol to be adminitered for whatever reason. That's a good sign!

Michael's illustrations, his name dropping, shows how serious he was about why he didn't want demerol at all administered, even alluding to his unhappy childhood and referencing Donny Osmond. Donny Osmond wrote his autobiography, back in 1999 and he does talk about his unhappy childhood, that he lives vicariously through his own children's childhood, although Donny Osmond writes some unflattering information about Michael Jackson in his book. Donny Osmond also wrote about his Elvis Presley connection, which also included the Osmond's wearing white jumpsuit's that Elvis made famous. Because the same designer for Elvis also designed for the Osmond's, Bill Belew. Elvis loved to call Donny's mother, Olive Osmond and talk to her about the Mormon religion.

Elvis made notes in his copy of the Book of Mormon and referenced his daughter would enjoy what the Book of Mormon had to say. Elvis would sit up in the balcony when the Osmond's performed at the Hilton Hotel. Donny Osmond, when he married, had his wedding reception, in between Show's, up on the 30th floor of the Hilton Hotel, the Elvis Presley suite. One had to take a special elevator to get to that particular floor and suite. As soon as the elevator door's opened you walked into the suite or the Elvis Presley suite. Elvis did do residencies at the Hilton, two Show's a night. He also toured the country. The Mormon's believe Elvis was going to get baptized the same week he died, as Elvis was studying with some member's of the Mormon Church. Elvis's copy of the Book of Mormon is in the Salt Lake Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint's. The religion has become pretty popular, as Mitt Romney, a devout Mormon, ran against President Obama this past fall, on the Republican ticket!
 
After the crisis of 19th when it's clear something is badly wrong with mj, phillips is just intent on doing a financial coming to jesus routine on mj to get him focussed. He couldn't care less about any red flags or warning signs about mj's health and physical wellbeing, his response was just to sideline the one senior guy, ortega, who was adamant that mj needed help, and to pile on the pressure onto mj, and i suspect also onto murray to get mj ready to perform. Agree entirely with bouee and soundmind - this is not how a reasonable company acts.

I've been wondering for longer time the direction of discussing is going on in these boards. Now CM's unethical behaviour has been diminished to minumun as it was AEG who pressurizing CM to give propofol to Mike? You made it sound like CM wouldn't have done what he did unless AEG pressurized him, and that is so wrong.
Also I noticed that you mentioned that pressure on MJ made him to take propofol, not true either.
How about other unethical doctors that were giving propfol before CM, who was pressurizing them? AEG wasn't there.
How about CM was giving totally dangerous anesthesia to MJ even before MJ brought him to AEG's attention? Who was pressurizing him then?
Who was pressuring Mike to ask propofol when he went to get his teeth cleaned? Who was pressurizing Mike's previous tour doctors? Who was pressurizing Mike to ask propofol for botox procedure?
Thats right, the phantom 5 years old person, that is part of this trial but noone seems to listen what he said or what he did.








If anything this reflects rather poorly on the staff (Tohme Tohme, Raymon Baine) that were on MJ payroll. it shows their utter incompetence. and that's precisely been MJ problem for the past 10 years of his life. he was surrounded by the wrong staff that were simply not fit to look after his interests. had MJ hired even half the staff Madonna and Jay-Z currently have MJ would have never ever gone into financial problems or felt the need to tour again.

It's not AEG fault if they somewhat managed to trick MJ. it's rather his then employees'. they should take the blame. Raymond Baine and Tohme Tohme were paid to look after MJ interests but somehow they negotiated poor deals in MJ's behalf. These two idiots are currently suing the Estate for a combined sum of $95m. you wonder what have they ever done for MJ to even deserve that kind of money?
and
I think you should take your anger to those idiots who were representing MJ. AEG should not be blamed for outsmarting MJ in contract negotiations. That's just business. his employees should take the blame including all these so-called entertainment lawyers.


If I could, I would have thanked your post 10 times. I have said it all along that if contract was unfavourable to Mj and he got the short end of the stick with his contract with AEG, I cannot blame AEG, they took what was offered to them in gold platter.
AEG wasn't being charity company, nor wasn't looking after MJ's benefit, they were there to make the best deal for themselves and MJ's people were there to make sure MJ got the best deal. It is not AEG's fault that MJ's people were incompitent for what they were supposed to do.

It's a business, they chose to present it in it's best light. If they deceived Michael by saying the gross figure is the net figure then yes I would agree.

Michael would have, must have known to have his people look it all over and give him the bottom line. I cannot believe that given his history in this business that he would just sit there and accept everything on face value, maybe he did, maybe he learnt nothing from all those years in this business.

Somehow I just don't see Michael believing everything what he was presented. He has been in the business long enough that he had knowledge how people would screw you over in a heartbeat if you let them.
I remembered when Paul McCartney asked rise for his royalty thingy, and MJ said no, he was negotiating deals when he was 17, everytime he negotiated record deal, it was bigger than previous one. So I think he knew the value of money, how things worked, and most importantly he had right people working with him. He knew how to make money and get ball rolling, but I was wondering if last 10 year of his life had shattered his self-confidence and self-belief so he might have let others run his deals (Tohme).
 
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What did Donny Osmond say that was bad about Michael Jackson in his autobio? I read that book years ago and do not remember him stating anything bad. Donny has always been decent about Michael.

I've read his book as well and don't remember him saying anything bad about Michael either.
 
I don't want to offend but I must say that it is getting a bit amusing in this thread. Every day or 2 days, we repeat the same things: Ivy explains the same things about a million times; gives the same examples about a million times to people who ask her the same questions or provide the same arguments over and over. We have the same people asking the same rhetorical questions everyday, and then, Bubs answers these questions. Then these same people then ask the same questions the next day. Ever so often Cherubim will pop in and say something about multinational corporations. Then I say the same thing over and over, because I see some people making the same statement over and over. Hopefully, some time soon we will get some witnesses who can give us some different testimony so that we will all stop repeating ourselves. I say all this with L.O.V.E.

I agree all of what you wrote, but I wanted to comment the last bit. Thanks for seriously hearthy laughs :giggle:
You post came right in time before my head was going to start spinning. I promise, I won't reply any of the J family against MJ fan posts :D

We need to see/hear Randy on the stand, his stories will keep us on track weeks to come.
 
Grace is sick and/or M.I.A.

Now Ms. Rebbie is sick.

Is it just me or are SOME folks running scared.

Reminds me how SOME folks were running from their deposition appointments.
 
Grace is sick and/or M.I.A.

Now Ms. Rebbie is sick.

Is it just me or are SOME folks running scared.

Reminds me how SOME folks were running from their deposition appointments.

Thats true, it took nearly a year to get Mr Big shot Randy and Jermaine to sit their depositions.
There seems to be a pattern going on.
 
This is an old post relating about starting of the whole thing. It offers a little bit information and have highlighted few interesting points.

Deep pockets behind Michael Jackson

Others have tried to revive the onetime pop star's performing career. Tom Barrack is convinced he's the 'caretaker' to do it.

Tom Barrack, a Westside financier who made billions buying and selling distressed properties, flew to Las Vegas in March 2008 to check out a troubled asset. But his target was not a struggling hotel chair or failed bank.

It was Michael Jackson. The world's bestselling male pop artist was hunkered down with his three children in a dumpy housing compound in an older section of town. At 49, he was awash in nearly $400 million of debt and so frail that he greeted visitors in a wheelchair. The rich international friends who offered Jackson refuge after his 2005 acquittal on molestation charges had fallen away. His Santa Barbara ranch, Neverland, was about to be sold at public auction.

In Jackson, Barrack saw the sort of undervalued asset his private equity firm, Colony Capital, had succeeded with in the past. He wrote a check to save the ranch and placed a call to a friend, the conservative business magnate Philip Anschutz, whose holdings include the concert production firm AEG Live.

Fifteen months later, Jackson is living in a Bel-Air mansion and rehearsing for a series of 50 sold-out shows in London's O2 Arena. The intervention of two billionaires with more experience in the board room than the recording studio seems on course to accomplish what a parade of others over the last dozen years could not: getting Jackson back on stage.

His backers envision the shows at AEG's O2 as an audition for a career rebirth that could ultimately encompass a three-year world tour, a new album, movies, a Graceland-like museum, musical revues in Las Vegas and Macau, and even a "Thriller" casino. Such a rebound could wipe out Jackson's massive debt.

"You are talking about a guy who could make $500 million a year if he puts his mind to it," Barrack said recently. "There are very few individual artists who are multibillion-dollar businesses. And he is one."

Others have tried to resurrect Jackson's career, but previous attempts have failed, associates say, because of managerial chaos, backbiting within his inner circle and the singer's legendary flakiness.

Even as Jackson's deep-pocketed benefactors assemble an all-star team -- "High School Musical's" Kenny Ortega is directing the London concerts -- there are hints of discord. Last week, two different men identified themselves as the singer's manager and a month before, a respected accountant who had been handling Jackson's books was abruptly fired in a phone call from an assistant.

But his backers downplay the problems. "He is very focused. He is not going to let anybody down. Not himself. Not his fans. Not his family," said Frank DiLeo, his current manager and a friend of three decades.

Jackson needs a comeback to reverse the damage done by years of excessive spending and little work. He has not toured since 1997 or released a new album since 2001, but has continued to live like a megastar.

THE MICHAEL JACKSON 'PARADOX'

To finance his opulent lifestyle, he borrowed heavily against his three main assets -- his ranch, his music catalog and a second catalog that includes the music of the Beatles that he co-owns with Sony Corp. By the time of his 2005 criminal trial, he was nearly $300 million in debt and, according to testimony, spending $30 million more annually than he was taking in.

Compounding his money difficulties are a revolving door of litigious advisors and hangers on. Jackson has run through 11 managers since 1990, according to DiLeo.

At least 19 people -- financial advisors, managers, lawyers, a pornography producer and even a Bahraini sheik -- have taken Jackson to court for allegedly failing to pay bills or backing out of deals. He settled many of the suits. Currently, he is facing civil claims by a former publicist, a concert promoter and the writer-director of his "Thriller" video, John Landis.

John Branca, an entertainment lawyer who represented Jackson for more than 20 years, blamed the singer's financial straits partly on his past habit of surrounding himself with "yes men." Branca advised Jackson to buy half of the Beatles catalog in 1985 for $47.5 million. The catalog is now estimated to be worth billions and the purchase is considered his smartest business decision.

"The paradox is that Michael is one of the brightest and most talented people I've ever known. At the same time, he has made some of the worst choices in advisors in the history of music," said Branca, who represents Santana, Nickelback and Aerosmith, among others. He said he finally split with the singer because Jackson invited into his inner circle "people who really didn't have his best interests at heart."



The singer's financial predicament reached a crisis point in March 2008 when he defaulted on a $24.5-million loan and Neverland went into foreclosure. Jackson's brother Jermaine enlisted the help of Dr. Tohme Tohme, an orthopedic surgeon-turned-businessman who had previously worked with Colony Capital.

Tohme reached out to Barrack, who said he was initially reluctant to get involved because Jackson had already sought advice from fellow billionaire Ron Burkle, an old friend.

"I said, 'My God, if Ron can't figure it out, I can't figure it out,' " Barrack said.

But he was drawn to the deal. He owns a ranch five miles from Neverland, and his sons were among local children Jackson invited over for field days at the ranch. The financier retains close ties to the developer who built Neverland and is friendly with Wesley Edens, the chairman of the property's debt-holder, Fortress Investment Group.

With the auction of Jackson's home and possessions just days away, Barrack made the singer a proposition.

"I sat down with him and said, 'Look . . . we can buy the note and restructure your financial empire,' " Barrack said. But, he told him, "what you need is a new caretaker. A new podium. A new engine."

Tohme, who acted as Jackson's manager until recently, recalled the urgency of the situation. "If he didn't move fast, he would have lost the ranch," Tohme said. "That would have been humiliating for Michael."

Jackson and Barrack reached an agreement within seven days. Colony paid $22.5 million and Neverland averted foreclosure.

FROM NEVERLAND TO LONDON

Jackson has not spoken publicly since a March news conference and his representatives declined to make him available for an interview.

Barrack said his position outside the music industry seemed to endear him to Jackson. "He looks at me like 'the suit.' I have credibility because I don't live in that world. I'm not interested in hanging around him. I'm not interested in girls. I'm not interested in boys. I'm not interested in drugs," Barrack said.

After buying Neverland, Barrack called his friend Anschutz. Barrack said the prospect of helping Jackson, given his recent criminal case, gave Anschutz, a devout Christian, pause. (Anschutz declined to be interviewed.)

Barrack had spent significant time with Jackson and praised him as "a genius" and devoted father. Ultimately, Anschutz agreed to put Jackson in touch with Randy Phillips, the CEO of his concert subsidiary.


As the head of AEG Live, Phillips oversees a division that grossed more than $1 billion last year and has negotiated such lucrative bookings as Celine Dion's four-year, $400-million run in Las Vegas and Prince's 21 sold-out dates at the O2 Arena in 2007.

Phillips had his eye on Jackson for some time. In 2007, Phillips approached the singer with a deal for a comeback, but Jackson, who was working with different advisors, turned him down. "He wasn't ready," Phillips recalled.

This time, however, Jackson was receptive. He needed the money, and he has a second, more personal reason: His children -- sons Prince Michael, 7, and Michael Joseph Jackson Jr., 12, and daughter Paris Michael Katherine, 11 -- have never seen him perform live.

"They are old enough to appreciate and understand what I do and I am still young enough to do it," Phillips quoted Jackson as saying.

Jackson stands to earn $50 million for the O2 shows, "This Is It" -- $1 million per performance not including revenue from merchandise sales and broadcast rights. Jackson is considering options including pay-per-view and a feature film. But the real money would kick in after his final curtain call in London.

A PROPOSED TOUR

AEG has proposed a three-year tour starting in Europe, then traveling to Asia and finally returning to the United States. Although Jackson has only committed to the O2 engagement thus far, Phillips estimates ticket sales for the global concerts would exceed $450 million.

"One would hope he would end up netting around 50% of that," Phillips said.

Barrack, the man who set Jackson's comeback in motion, has seen his net worth drop with the financial crisis of the last year. Forbes estimated his wealth at $2.3 billion around the time he met Jackson, but he is now merely a multimillionaire. He said that the economic downturn makes Jackson even more attractive as an investment because his value has been overlooked: In times like this, he said, "finding little pieces of information that others don't have" is more important than ever.

His company isn't exposed to any risk by working with Jackson. All the money Colony has put up is backed by the value of Neverland and related assets, he said. If Jackson regains firm financial footing, Barrack's company could be a partner in future deals. "When he looks back and says, 'Who took the risk? Who was there?' I mean, he gets it. So that's my hope," Barrack said.

(My note, wasn't he deposited and he mentioned something about future deals?)

It all depends on what happens July 13 when the lights go down in the O2 Arena. Doubts about Jackson's reliability are widespread because of his long concert hiatus. Those concerns were heightened earlier this month when the show's opening night was pushed back five days. Phillips and Ortega, the director, blamed production problems and said Jackson was ready to perform.

Fans demonstrated their faith in Jackson months ago when they snapped up 750,000 tickets for shows through March 2010 in less than four hours. "We could have done 200 shows if he were willing to live in London for two years," Phillips said.

Amid the high stakes, Phillips has taken a hands-on approach more reminiscent of his early days as a talent manager for acts including Guns N' Roses and Lionel Richie than as the company's chief executive.

A REPUTATION, A DO-OR-DIE MOMENT

In addition to the more than $20 million AEG is paying to produce the shows, the company is putting its reputation on the line for a performer with a track record of missed performances and canceled dates. In a video news conference earlier this month, Phillips acknowledged that the company has only been able to insure 23 of the 50 "This Is It" performances."In this business, if you don't take risks, you don't achieve greatness," Phillips said.

Phillips said he speaks with Jackson regularly and has closely monitored rehearsals in a Burbank soundstage. In response to questions about his physical condition, especially in light of his previous addiction to prescription painkillers, Phillips said that Jackson passed a rigorous medical examination. Associates also say he adheres to a strict vegetarian diet and works out with a personal trainer.

But the problems that have bedeviled Jackson in the past -- infighting, disorganization and questionable advisors -- persist.

In an interview last week, Tohme identified himself as the singer's "manager, spokesman, everything" and spoke about the benefits of dealing with business titans Barrack and Anschutz rather than their "sleazy" predecessors. "Michael Jackson is an institution. He needs to be run like an institution," Tohme said.

The next day, however, longtime Jackson associate DiLeo claimed he was Jackson's manager and said Tohme had been fired a month and a half earlier. Tohme denied being fired but declined further comment.

In April, Jackson fired the accounting firm, Cannon & Co., that had worked for him for a year, according to an accountant who worked on his finances. Jeff Cannon of Cannon & Co. said he received a phone call from an assistant of Jackson who said the singer no longer required his services.

Then there is Arfaq Hussain. A British man who met Jackson in the late 1990s, Hussain designed clothing for the performer -- including an air-conditioned jacket, a pair of self-adjusting, rhodium-plated shoes and the "Crystal Miracle," a jacket covered with 275,000 rock crystals -- and tried to launch a business selling $75,000 bottles of perfume by trading on Jackson's name.

In 2002, Hussain was jailed for four months in Britain for charges related to business fraud. Hussain and Jackson recently became reacquainted and the singer hired him as an assistant, DiLeo said.

The woman who was Jackson's public face during his criminal trial, former manager and spokeswoman Raymone Bain, is pressing a federal breach of contract suit against the singer. Bain claims that Jackson cheated her out of her 10% cut of several business deals, including the AEG concerts. Bain is to ask a judge in Washington, D.C., next month to seize the portion she alleges is hers, citing Jackson's history of evading creditors.

In his corner office high above Century City, Barrack is sanguine about reports of disharmony.

"You have the same thousand parasites that start to float back in and take advantage of the situation and that has happened a little at the edges," he said. But, he added, he had confidence in AEG's ability to keep Jackson focused.

The concerts, Phillips acknowledged, are a do-or-die moment for Jackson.

"If it doesn't happen, it would be a major problem for him career-wise in a way that it hasn't been in the past," he said.
 
Briggs said Mr. Erk specified album unit sales for five of MJ's albums. "It also showed a significant decline," Briggs said.
MJ's albums sale:
1982 -- Thriller -- 65 million
1987 -- Bad -- 45 million
1991 -- Dangerous -- 32 million
1995 -- HIStory -- 20 million (the best selling double album of all time?)
2001 -- Invincible -- 13 million (Sony dispute)

Well I hope plaitiffs lawyer is like hawk over that statement.
I wonder if other big artists maintained the same numbers of sold albums than their biggest seller?
 
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