Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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This was already shown in court. I mean both E-Mails.

You'right, I even put it myself in the e mail thread.. at the time. I had forgotten about the date and to whom it was sent. I'm going through Panish's webiste to sort out the mails, and came across this again... and had forgotten it was from june 20th, before the meeting and sent to Phillips.
 
bouee;3857216 said:
She did say that, but I don't remember if she says who told her that. Maybe you should have a look at Ivy's summary of her transcript, since her transcript was bought. It's in this section of the forum.

Its not really clear WHO told her because both Ortega and Randy Phillips are mentioned. But yesterday she denied that Randy Phillips told her not to listen to MJ. She also denied this time that Randy Phillips and Paul Congaware told her to get Mj to the stage, but 7 weeks ago she told she was instructed to get MJ on stage.

This is what Karen said when she first testified 7 weeks ago (ehh cant believe its already gone 7 weeks)

"Karen mentions that once Michael was late for rehearsal and Ortega and Phillips went to Michael’s house to talk to him. After that meeting Karen says she was instructed to not to listen to Michael and listen and take directions from Phillips. Karen says she was told to get Michael on stage and put the ear piece in his ear even though he did not want that. Karen testifies she felt torn about whom to listen to.

Karen says Michael was again late for a rehearsal around June 16-18 and Ortega and Phillips again went to talk to Michael. Karen says she thinks Michael and Murray was at this meeting. Karen says she talked to Ortega after this meeting but the some of questioning ends due to hearsay. She says she was told not to listen to what Michael was telling her and show Michael tough love."


Testimony from yesterday June 28

Putnam: Did Paul Gongaware ever personally instruct you to never listen to MJ?
Faye: No

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1h
Putnam: Did Randy Phillips ever personally instruct you to never listen no MJ?
Faye: No

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1h
Putnam: Did Paul Gongaware ever pressure you to get MJ on stage?
Faye: No

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1h
Putnam: Did Randy Phillips ever pressure you to get MJ on stage?
Faye: No
 
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Vici;3857230 said:
Its not really clear WHO told her because both Ortega and Randy Phillips are mentioned. But yesterday she denied that Randy Phillips told her not to listen to MJ. She also denied this time that Randy Phillips and Paul Congaware told her to get Mj to the stage, but 7 weeks ago she told she was instructed to get MJ on stage.

This is what Karen said when she first testified 7 weeks ago (ehh cant believe its already gone 7 weeks)

"Karen mentions that once Michael was late for rehearsal and Ortega and Phillips went to Michael’s house to talk to him. After that meeting Karen says she was instructed to not to listen to Michael and listen and take directions from Phillips. Karen says she was told to get Michael on stage and put the ear piece in his ear even though he did not want that. Karen testifies she felt torn about whom to listen to.

Karen says Michael was again late for a rehearsal around June 16-18 and Ortega and Phillips again went to talk to Michael. Karen says she thinks Michael and Murray was at this meeting. Karen says she talked to Ortega after this meeting but the some of questioning ends due to hearsay. She says she was told not to listen to what Michael was telling her and show Michael tough love."


Testimony from yesterday June 28

Putnam: Did Paul Gongaware ever personally instruct you to never listen to MJ?
Faye: No

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1h
Putnam: Did Randy Phillips ever personally instruct you to never listen no MJ?
Faye: No

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1h
Putnam: Did Paul Gongaware ever pressure you to get MJ on stage?
Faye: No

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1h
Putnam: Did Randy Phillips ever pressure you to get MJ on stage?
Faye: No

DiLeo or Ortega ?
 

Sent June 22, she wasn't aware of the meeting on June 20th yet when she wrote this.
Notice she puts all the blame on MJ and she says he is playing the victim telling his fans he was fragile and unable to do 50 concerts (Not true) He uses people who are trying to help him and turns them against each other and that he uses his caretakers to finance his life and then moves on when he can't deliver .. She has seen so many invest in him and then he can't deliver She has seen him self destruct like this many times. She didn't want Kenny Philips and Dileo to be held as villans or foot the blame financially . anyway you get the picture.. read on.

There is also the email on the link from a fan that Karen sent along with her email. Sandy Stadler tweeted she wasn't very happy when she just saw the email Karen sent to Dileo along with her concerns about MJ.

Also MJ never told the fans he was fragile and unable to do the 50 shows as karen stated in her email
The fans said that NOT Michael. He just said he went to bed with 10 woke up to 50 - nothing more which it just about what happened. She says he is delivering this message to the public himself. BS he mentioned in once to few fans. .. Yes she showed some concern over his health but She so belittled and trashed MJ though that whole email. I can't stand her I don't trust anything she says. She constantly contradicts herself .. and has hurt and viciously attacked anyone and everyone who was ever near MJ .. She holds herself high and mighty above everyone, because She is the only one who cared. The truthful one ... &*^&$#@#(*_
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Can someone type this up please ?
 
There are still some witnesses left to testify and may speak to "foreseeability." We shall see.

the only relevant probably would be Dr. Finkelstein.

In your scenarios, the risk unfortunately starts with the first sentence for both sides. Faye, albeit with quite a bit of histrionics, testified she was aware of how doctors in the past proved to be problematic.

and now you changed the scenario, what Faye knew or thought doesn't really matter unless AEG people were also aware of it.


Jacksons lawyers mentioned Finkelstein told Gongaware, and Finkelstein has not testified yet.
AEG mentionned Debbie on history tour, Gongaware was there at the same time. So she (and maybe Ratner) could also say that Gongaware knew, or paid the doctor as he was in charge of the tour. Gongaware said that there was no doctor on History tour.

given that Debbie is AEG's witness and AEG's defense is "no one knew", I would not expect Debbie to say Gongaware knew.


bolded : so propofol is not relevant.

particular risk , that's what AEG is aiming for.

Not only I have given the definitions and a lot of examples of the cases where negligent hiring claims was lost. It might not make sense to you personally but their argument makes sense legally.

You will see in all the examples negligent hiring requires the employer reasonably able to see the possibility of the exact or similar (which is explained as particular on jury instructions) harm. As given the most common example if an employee beats up a customer and he had a history of violence, that's foreseeable behavior.

Michael died of Propofol /anesthesia overdose . Now it's a nuance , yes , but it's also as I said very valid defense. It's no different than the examples I posted before, it's no different than saying (and winning) a reasonable person cannot foresee that someone who resisted arrest in the past will beat a customer in the future.

Sure a jury might look to this as "overdose is overdose and the drug of choice doesn't matter" but AEG can still argue "a 1993 pain killer addiction cannot make anyone reasonably foresee an anesthesia overdose 16 years later".

and it's not just the trial. Regardless of who wins I'm sure the decision would appealed to the highest court.


You talk about foreseeabilty : it was (maybe) not foreseeable at the time of hiring , unless we hear that PG knew about past drug issues. But it was foreseeable seeing Michael's health was declining at exactly the same time Murray was treating him, to the point he was not able to rehearse properly or could not rehearse at all on the 19th. He was better on 23rd & 24th, but still had some weird symptoms. (which I think is probably the reason Phillips was at the house on 24th : Michael only did 2 songs and was better, but not really well either)

you say "it was foreseeable seeing Michael's health was declining at exactly the same time Murray was treating him" but ignore that no one was able to foresee and tie it to Murray. They talked about nutrition, psychologist / therapist etc not Murray. Even the people at the house who saw Murray spending the night and who saw oxygen tanks was able to tie it back to Murray. So if no one was able to see it then how can you say it's reasonable to foresee it? Are you adding hindsight to your decision? Yes now we know Murray was giving Michael propofol for 6 weeks in an absolutely wrong way but they did not know it.

It doesn't matter to me what AEG or others thought what it was (psychological, demerol issue, etc..). It was the doctor's role to diagnose the problem, not AEG's.

Murray? and he said to them Michael was fine. So if the doctor is telling them "everything is fine, you aren't a doctor I am" how would they be able to foresee it?

The doctor kept telling them Michael was fine and could do the shows, according to them. THAT is the problem they could see, the foreseeable risk.

and Michael did the shows and he was improved the next 2 days. So as far as they were concerned what doctor told them was true. So what would they foresee exactly?

If Murray said "he's fine" but Michael came the next day and could not perform, I would agree they could see "uhmm no there's something wrong here". But when Murray says "he's fine, that was just an episode, just flu" and then Michael comes back he's improved, gives best rehearsals, he's happy and smiling (according to Karen), I would think "everything is good, he's fine now".

Building the defense around propofol and secrecy (vs demerol that was visible ? ) will be only to trash Michael. They will talk about Michael's responsability as an adult, minimise Murray's rols as much as possible, hoping the jury will forget that AEG has some responsability too.
To me it's a weak defense, it means they can't adress the real issues, what the Jacksons are saying.

I believe that's not the only defense but I expect them to defend all the points meaning : he wasn't hired, Michael hired him, we could not foresee, little damages.

The problem is why did they do that when they had a full time doctor ? Because they knew the doctor couldn't do it, he was working at night (or highly incompetent, any doctor could have done that).

or the doctor was not a nutrition expert. If you read back Murray's police interview he says he took care of Michael's general health and got a specialist when needed. Nutritionist is a specialist. Such action "refer to a specialist" is the basis of US health system.
 
Oh and if Ms. Faye was comfortable enough to rip off the fans with Randy Jackson, I'm surprised she was not comfortable enough to approach him about her concerns regarding MJ.

As a matter of fact, since she wants the entire world to believe she and MJ were so tight, I'm surprised she didn't approach MJ directly.

Then again, she was probably trying to protect her OWN paycheck and didn't want MJ to give her the big boot.
 
given that Debbie is AEG's witness and AEG's defense is "no one knew", I would not expect Debbie to say Gongaware knew.

I wouldn't put it past her. As I see her, she'll say what she has to say, regardless of who called her. She was also Sneddon's witness.



particular risk , that's what AEG is aiming for.

Not only I have given the definitions and a lot of examples of the cases where negligent hiring claims was lost. It might not make sense to you personally but their argument makes sense legally.

You will see in all the examples negligent hiring requires the employer reasonably able to see the possibility of the exact or similar (which is explained as particular on jury instructions) harm. As given the most common example if an employee beats up a customer and he had a history of violence, that's foreseeable behavior.

Michael died of Propofol /anesthesia overdose . Now it's a nuance , yes , but it's also as I said very valid defense. It's no different than the examples I posted before, it's no different than saying (and winning) a reasonable person cannot foresee that someone who resisted arrest in the past will beat a customer in the future.

Sure a jury might look to this as "overdose is overdose and the drug of choice doesn't matter" but AEG can still argue "a 1993 pain killer addiction cannot make anyone reasonably foresee an anesthesia overdose 16 years later".

and it's not just the trial. Regardless of who wins I'm sure the decision would appealed to the highest court. .

I understand your example and thanks for explaining. It does make sense to me, but I still don't see it the way you do.

I still think it is a weak defense, because they are not adressing what the Jacksons say, they are taking it further to distract attention.

Murray was negligent, it was NOT an overdose, it was the way he gave propofol. So basically, a negligent doctor is a bad and incompetent doctor.

I'm sure whoever loses the case will appeal the decision.




you say "it was foreseeable seeing Michael's health was declining at exactly the same time Murray was treating him" but ignore that no one was able to foresee and tie it to Murray. They talked about nutrition, psychologist / therapist etc not Murray. Even the people at the house who saw Murray spending the night and who saw oxygen tanks was able to tie it back to Murray. So if no one was able to see it then how can you say it's reasonable to foresee it? Are you adding hindsight to your decision? Yes now we know Murray was giving Michael propofol for 6 weeks in an absolutely wrong way but they did not know it.



Murray? and he said to them Michael was fine. So if the doctor is telling them "everything is fine, you aren't a doctor I am" how would they be able to foresee it?

I would be worried, and I would wonder why the doctor is saying everything's fine when others see Michael kept losing weight in spite of raising the issue with Murray since early june. I would wonder why the doctor says everything's fine when you have 3 persons saying that Michael was physically deteriorating.
One of them being Kenny Ortega, who had known and worked with Michael for over 20 years, and says he had witnessed the same thing ending in Michael's collapse & the HBO show being canceled..

So after 3 meetings with Murray, and still hearing that "Michael was fine" when others said he was not, yes, I would definitely wonder about the doctor.
To me it's really common sense, especially in Phillips's case, more than PG. As I said earlier, I believe 90% of the people on the planet would have worried and wondered about the doctor.
Phillips had other things on his mind, that pushed him to make the wrong decision.

AEG- Phillips and Gongaware - knew about Murray, and talked about Michael's health with Murray. Karen, Kai and others did not. They did not have Murray's version.


and Michael did the shows and he was improved the next 2 days. So as far as they were concerned what doctor told them was true. So what would they foresee exactly?

If Murray said "he's fine" but Michael came the next day and could not perform, I would agree they could see "uhmm no there's something wrong here". But when Murray says "he's fine, that was just an episode, just flu" and then Michael comes back he's improved, gives best rehearsals, he's happy and smiling (according to Karen), I would think "everything is good, he's fine now".

Karen & Sankey and maybe others saiid Michael was better, but not well.
What do you think Phillips was doing at Carolwood on 24th ? Congratulating Murray ?



or the doctor was not a nutrition expert. If you read back Murray's police interview he says he took care of Michael's general health and got a specialist when needed. Nutritionist is a specialist. Such action "refer to a specialist" is the basis of US health system.
We are going in circles with this. David Loeffler (sp?) was not a nutritionnist, he was Phillips friend, hired to make sure Michael would eat. Murray said he would things that he never did.
 
Is this true randy Philips fired chef chase and replaced his friend as Michael's chef?
 
@Bouee
I wouldn't put it past her. As I see her, she'll say what she has to say, regardless of who called her. She was also Sneddon's witness.

I think anything is possible with Debbie.

Murray was negligent, it was NOT an overdose, it was the way he gave propofol. So basically, a negligent doctor is a bad and incompetent doctor.

I think overdose is the correct term to use. The propofol was administered too quickly (all in one go) therefore too much of it went into his body, so causing an overdose.

I would be worried, and I would wonder why the doctor is saying everything's fine when others see Michael kept losing weight in spite of raising the issue with Murray since early june. I would wonder why the doctor says everything's fine when you have 3 persons saying that Michael was physically deteriorating.
One of them being Kenny Ortega, who had known and worked with Michael for over 20 years, and says he had witnessed the same thing ending in Michael's collapse & the HBO show being canceled..

So after 3 meetings with Murray, and still hearing that "Michael was fine" when others said he was not, yes, I would definitely wonder about the doctor.
To me it's really common sense, especially in Phillips's case, more than PG. As I said earlier, I believe 90% of the people on the planet would have worried and wondered about the doctor.
Phillips had other things on his mind, that pushed him to make the wrong decision.

AEG- Phillips and Gongaware - knew about Murray, and talked about Michael's health with Murray. Karen, Kai and others did not. They did not have Murray's version.

Of course people would worry, and that is why there were those meetings, and for some of it an explanation was given. Maybe they did wonder about the doctor and maybe that was another reason for the meetings. But on that on they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I don't know *sigh* sometimes maybe I credit Michael with too much.
 
Are randy Philips fired chef chase and replace his friend as Michael's chef?

No, Randy did not fire Kai Chase. His friend was not a chef either, so I don't think Randy's friend was going to Carolwood to fire Kai Chase either. And she was Michael's employee, I don't know how he could have fired her.
 
TJ Jackson brought up why the Trail is so personal for him, it reminded him of how his mother died, at the hands of her boyfriend. A lawsuit was filed against the boyfriend and the boyfriend was brought to Justice.

Even though Justice has been served, in that Conrad Murray was convicted of killing Michael Jackson, this trial really hasn't changed that Verdict.

I still don't even understand what Prince Jackson was trying to say about Conrad Murray and Randy Phillips having some kind of verbal disagreement and that there was some kind of physical interaction. Even though the body language says that Randy Phillips was angry with Conrad Murray and it was near the time of Michael's death, both lawyer's that represent Randy Phillips and Conrad Murray have denied the meeting. It does get confusing.

Did the kid's have strict bed times when Michael Jackson was alive? I thought they did because of their schooling at home. I don't think this interaction that Prince Jackson is talking about, was late at night. He was 12 and I just don't see him being up late!

The only reason Prince's statement about Randy holding Conrad by the elbow was only to imply that Randy had authority over Conrad, I think.

Another thing that surprises me about Prince's testimony is that he saw Randy and another man, whom he didn't know, in the house. I wonder if either side tried to find out who that person was.
 
Murray was negligent, it was NOT an overdose, it was the way he gave propofol. So basically, a negligent doctor is a bad and incompetent doctor.

and what did you have to show you he was a negligent doctor? Licensed in 4 states, multiple clinics, 2 warnings for not returning a phone call and not updating records. What tells you that he was an incompetent doctor?


So after 3 meetings with Murray, and still hearing that "Michael was fine" when others said he was not, yes, I would definitely wonder about the doctor.

okay you were worried, you might have even though "he could not handle this, he would never be able to do the concerts", you might even thought "this is going to be a disaster" or "he would collapse the first night on stage". but would you think "the doctor will overdose him at night in his home" or even more simply would you think "the doctor will harm or kill him" ?

that's the part of what would a reasonable person would conclude or foresee. For example one the case examples I posted was a man who sexually assaulted a co worker. he had a record of indecent exposure at a city park 6 years ago- which means he showed his penis at the park. That was a nonviolent act. A detective and the court agreed that it would be a stretch to predict "a man who showed his penis 6 years ago would violently and sexually assault a woman in the future".
 
The only reason Prince's statement about Randy holding Conrad by the elbow was only to imply that Randy had authority over Conrad, I think.

Another thing that surprises me about Prince's testimony is that he saw Randy and another man, whom he didn't know, in the house. I wonder if either side tried to find out who that person was.

It must be so easy to find out, random people didn't just wander in and out of the house, there must be records or eye witness security.

I agree with you on the elbow holding in this instance because it was backed up by Prince saying it appeared aggressive. But standing close and elbow holding doesn't by itself have to mean anything untoward, someone could be telling a cheeky joke or a secret. (as I said, not in this instance though) because of how Prince described it.
 
Whats their role in this? The alternate jurors doesnt have any power power decision when it comes to deciding the outcome right? They just fill out one spot of the regular jurors if they for some reason cant fulfill their jury commitment? is that true?

True. The alternate jurors are there to replace a regular juror in case of illness or another emergency. Their duties are exactly the same as a regular juror--they take the oath, listen to testimony daily--but they do not take part in verdict voting. But, because they can replace a regular juror at any time, the rules about approaching/influencing them are the same.

I bet this was some over zealous fan who couldn't tell a regular juror from an alternate-not that it even matters. Doing that can land someone in big trouble or even get that alternate dismissed.
 
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It must be so easy to find out, random people didn't just wander in and out of the house, there must be records or eye witness security.

I agree with you on the elbow holding in this instance because it was backed up by Prince saying it appeared aggressive. But standing close and elbow holding doesn't by itself have to mean anything untoward, someone could be telling a cheeky joke or a secret. (as I said, not in this instance though) because of how Prince described it.

Of course. Someone, aside from Prince, has to know who was at the house at that time, and my question is, why Panish or Putnam haven't presented Prince with pics & names of people who were at their home? I don't think that's hard since I don't think Michael'd entertained people every day.

I also remember there was one exec. from AEG that was going to one of the meetings at Carolwood and probably that was the first time Prince saw him. My problem is that the attorneys leave clouds in certain testimonies but on the other hand, it can also be the reporters that don't pass all the info.
 
Yes she viciously attacked many on her facebook. and that She was the only onewho tells the truth and cared about Michael. ba bla bla. she also said in a comment on her blog that Kenny was responsible for the bridge accident in munich and made it seem sinister. She gossipped about many thing about MJ too. She is not the person she portrays herself to be.

YES! ITA. I followed her tweets right after Michael died and she was so hateful toward Kenny Ortega to the point of inciting vitriol towards him (especially from the TINI group of fans). She deleted most of those tweets after coming under fire from fans, but at one point she wished Kenny dead.

I think she has a lot of people fooled, but following what she's said and looking at her actions reveals who she truly is--a phony. IMO
 
qbee;3857235 said:
Can someone type this up please ?

From: winghaert5
Subject: warning
Date: June 22, 2009 9:54:47 AM PDT
To: TOOKIE

Hi Tookie,

I just want you to have this information to be one step a head. Michael is showing and telling his fans of his fragile state and his inability to do 50 shows. It seems like he is setting himself up to be the victim. I see his pattern once again emerging with his care takers. He uses them to finance his life… and then moves on when he can not deliver on his promises. I am not saying his original intent isn’t to fulfill his obligations, but I am merely speculating that he becomes paralyze with fear. This is why I thought therapy for him is the most important element to his being able to succeed.
When he asked me to do this in May and met with him; I saw a slender, but strong and coherent Michael Jackson. All this hurts me all the way around. I see so many people invest in his success, and believe in him, then I have to watch him self destruct. I have seen with my own eyes…him detoriate physically in a month. I have seen him do this several times in my relationship with him.
I watch him turn people against each other who are working so hard to help him. I want nothing more than to see him and his art continue thrive and live on, not only for history and himself but for his children sake.
He hurts himself most of all.
I love and care Michael like a brother, a family member, and I pray that you are correct, when you say you have it under control and figured out. I trust you. I also care about you. I don’t think you, Kenny, or Randy deserve becoming the villains, or the financial victims. I think EVERYONE deserves to have amazing success. We need to all be on the same page at all times. You do not want him to collapse in front of several hundred thousand people. He has created many witnesses so far.
Michael is painfull thin…his bones are protruding. I am one person that has physical contact with him every day. Michael’s OCD is getting worse. He repeats his actions and rambling words constantly, rarely coherent with the present conversation. I see Travis struggling and winded, just “going through the motions” at rehearsal doing MJ’s part. We are having Michael on a cherry picker out over the audience, climbing very high steep steps…and so far, he can not even walk down the ramp without assistance. Kenny has asked the female dancer to assist him as they leave the stage…

This is between you and me alone. I am leaving this in your hands as you have instructed me to do.
I am getting many emails from fans similar to this one…he is delivering this message to the public himself.
He also brought in several fans at Culver City Studios, and they saw the bones protruding down his back, when he tried on some clothing they gave him.
 
Of course. Someone, aside from Prince, has to know who was at the house at that time, and my question is, why Panish or Putnam haven't presented Prince with pics & names of people who were at their home? I don't think that's hard since I don't think Michael'd entertained people every day.

I also remember there was one exec. from AEG that was going to one of the meetings at Carolwood and probably that was the first time Prince saw him. My problem is that the attorneys leave clouds in certain testimonies but on the other hand, it can also be the reporters that don't pass all the info.

Apparently AEG are going to show that that meeting never happened, so I guess we wait and see. But yeah, I can't think it would be that difficult.

*******

I was surprised the two T's weren't questioned more, ie the last time they saw Michael prior to the anniversary dinner. And TJ mentioned Michael offering him money for his wedding but no one asked if Michael went, I think it was TJ who was really upset with Michael for not going, Tito said that in an interview once.
 
mjchris;3857168 said:
wasnt it dileo that told the kids in the hospital that michael is dead? prince says it was murray.

and what is the difference between, when u are dead... you eyes are half open, and you look straight, and the eyes are open and rolled up in the back of the head?

Frank DiLeo said in an interview with Meredith Viera on NBC's Today Show:

We had to tell the children. I didn’t go in alone. I went in with a doctor and a social worker. The nanny was in there and Dr. Murray – Michael’s personal physician. It was, as you would think,” a visibly emotional Dileo continued. “I can’t even begin to tell you the emotion that flowed out of those children. (Source:http://www.accesshollywood.com/michael-jacksons-manager-i-had-to-tell-the-children_article_19755)

So, it's possible that Prince's version is also correct because Murray was already in the room and could have told them before DiLeo walked in. Frank may have thought he was the first to tell the kids after the ER docs officially pronounced MJ dead, but we now know that Murray (and the EMI guys) knew Michael was already dead at the house.
 
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1m
Faye said on June 18 Michael was almost catatonic, stoic, appeared scared to die.

How Conrad didn't see what he was doing to Michael? Even if Michael insisted on getting propofol, he could have said no & walk away. And he will be out soon.
 
The only reason Prince's statement about Randy holding Conrad by the elbow was only to imply that Randy had authority over Conrad, I think.

Another thing that surprises me about Prince's testimony is that he saw Randy and another man, whom he didn't know, in the house. I wonder if either side tried to find out who that person was.


You still wonder what the implication is. Is Prince Jackson saying Randy Phillips gets too aggressive in his temperament? This has been established. That when Michael Jackson, his father, got off the phone, Michael was reduced to tears by how aggressive Randy could be and this establishes why so much Propofol was administered?
Conrad Murray, with his expertise in medicine, should have taken that into consideration with his patient, Michael Jackson, since Michael was his only patient at the time.

Even though you feel your employer is treating you unfair, it is the individual's demeanor that determines how they handle the stress. I honestly thought Michael Jackson made up his mind he was going to do the Shows by his attitude at the final rehearsals. What the trial has shown me is how much of Michael Jackson's money supported the Jackson clan, the money stretches to a lot of Jackson relatives. That's why I feel Katherine Jackson needed to make AEG Live pay her a lot of money because when she dies, Prince, Paris and Blanket will have to step up to the plate and continue spreading Michael Jackson's wealth, if she doesn't get any money from this lawsuit!
 
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Read more: http://www.allaccess.com/top40-mainstream/industry-snap/q/id/2571#ixzz2Xcm6dO5V
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David Loeffler is being mentioned as someone who had something to do with Michael Jackson's nutritional needs, like Kai Chase!
 
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 1m
Faye said on June 18 Michael was almost catatonic, stoic, appeared scared to die.

How Conrad didn't see what he was doing to Michael? Even if Michael insisted on getting propofol, he could have said no & walk away. And he will be out soon.

I agree--he could have walked away, but the money was too seductive and he was willing to violate his Hippocratic Oath to get it. Murray had a range of choices when faced with Michael's likely request of propofol to help him sleep. For starters, he could have recommended an anesthesiologist (like Ratner who did admister propofol to MJ, but did it safely) to work with him (he might have gotten less money, but would still be "personal physician"); he could have recommended a sleep specialist; and he could have just said, NO.

Only Murray knew how dangerous it was to do what he was doing outside of a hospital setting--no way Michael knew that because Ratner administered propofol successfully for him. Michael probably thought any doctor could do it--they were the professionals and knew what they could and could not do.

It always comes back to Murray's choices and behavior--had he done the right thing, Michael would still be alive.
 
I have ot say this last interaction between Prince and Panish about "mean depositon" seems realy rehearsed.
 
I actually think that AEG stalling on advancing money to Murray is playing to their advantage. it shows that they were resisting Murray as much as possible. it is true that AEG did not like Murray and the fact that he was expensive did not help.

What stalling? Aeg were in contract negotiations with murray, he only received the last draft of the contract on the 24th. Jorrie (sp?) never mentioned any stalling tactics. And how is it true that aeg didn't like murray - days before 25 june phillips was singing his praises, he's fantastic, he's ethical, he's unbiased, he's impressing me more and more etc.

you say "it was foreseeable seeing Michael's health was declining at exactly the same time Murray was treating him" but ignore that no one was able to foresee and tie it to Murray. They talked about nutrition, psychologist / therapist etc not Murray.

Aeg did tie mj's health to murray. They talk of the importance of bringing the doctor into the fold, they were including him in all the meetings about mj's 'lack of focus' - murray was clearly seen as the important factor in mj's wellbeing. Phillips clearly sees murray as the key to mj. After the crisis of mj's 19th june rehearsal, phillip's concern isn't assuaged by mj's better rehearsals on the 23 and 24th of june. He's already confident by the 20th, just 24 hrs later, that mj is fine after he's had a telephone conversation with murray and a meeting with mj/murray at the forum. He waxes lyrical on the 20th about how fantastic murray is and how impressed he is by him. Aeg seem to be totally relying on murray to turn mj around even though he seems to have done a pretty poor job up til then -it's weird imo they never connected mj's problems to murray.
 
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