Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[8701girl]

[QUOTEABC7 Court News ? Prince: Blanket was so young, my brother is still growing up like I am, he doesn't have a dad to tell him what's right and wrong

Prince: I think out of my siblings she (Paris) was hit the hardest, she was my dad'd little princess. She's dealing with it in her own way ][/QUOTE]

This just tears me up inside

god i hate murray so much more each and every single day

 

[8701girl]

^Is this authentic? If it's real, then she is bipolar.

 

[crillon]

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 2m Prince said security would let AEG people and Dr. Tohme in, but "people like my grandpa were turned away."

Joe. The Rodney Dangerfield of the family.

 

[Ashtanga]

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 2m Prince said security would let AEG people and Dr. Tohme in, but "people like my grandpa were turned away."

:fear:

 

[8701girl]

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 2m Prince said security would let AEG people and Dr. Tohme in, but "people like my grandpa were turned away."

Joe. The Rodney Dangerfield (the "I don't get no respect" comedian) of the family.

Although could we blame mj for not letting joe in h34r:

 

[Ashtanga]

interesting Karen Faye email

http://www.psblaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Exhibit-330-Faye-Depo-Ex-101.pdf

highlighted parts blaming Michael

Email Sandy Stadler to Karen > http://www.psblaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Exhibit-330-Faye-Depo-Ex-101.pdf


:fear:

 

[crillon]

:fear:

LOL.

Although could we blame mj for not letting joe in h34r:

No! Not at all :fear:

 

[crillon]

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 42m Tomorrow's witnesses: TJ and Taj Jackson. itJackson's attorney told us they aren't sure if Paris will testify. It's up to her doctor to ok it

WHAT??? Is the implication that Panish/KJ are asking Paris' doctor to OK it? Panish should be telling ABC--NO, she will not be testifying!

 

[Ashtanga]

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 42m Tomorrow's witnesses: TJ and Taj Jackson. itJackson's attorney told us they aren't sure if Paris will testify. It's up to her doctor to ok it

WHAT??? Is the implication that Panish/KJ are asking Paris' doctor to OK it? Panish should be telling ABC--NO, she will not be testifying!

:wtf:



Are they crazy? :blink: If true, the family will allow this? :bugeyed I hope it's just rumors! errin: Paris has to stay out of this mess.

 

[PrɛttyღBµʈʈɇrƒℓу]

On one hand it is reassuring to see the self-control of Prince even before a delicate situation. It was the most emotional testimony of the trial, in my opinion. "The angels look for us" is advice so sweet and at the same time, in view of the moment, so sad.

The Jacksons' lawyers are at least "innocents" at think that after all that has happened to her, Paris is able to get through it. If she was not prepared psychic and emotionally for it before, now it's over.

Prince's testimony reinforces how much the decrease of Michael's health was in plain sight and they just push him for the results. That part where Prince mentions that Michael cried after the calls of these people, it's heartbreaking.

 

[Mechi]

Well I do think if Michael cried after those phonecalls then it's cuz he noticed he brought himself into this and didn't see a way out (like he might used ways out before, see Karens emails).
As I was one of the fans who saw a pretty short video of him online telling about waking up to 50 shows and not being happy with it (yep that video which later disappeared) honestly I thought when I first heard about Michael rushed to the hospital on 6/25 I thought it's hopefully only 'his way out' and hopefully not too serious.
However be really fair one has to see this pressure Michael was suffering from was created to a good part not really only by AEG but by Michael himself just as much.
One could have much earlier negotiated about this differently?!

However what I find powerful about this testimony today more is that Prince recalls there was a meeting between the Murray guy and AEG/in the person of Phillips at Michaels home while Michael wasn't around. That's to me at least really new.
Contract negotiations and/or trying to supervise the Murray guy? Still to be cleared in this trial I think.
I mean you can not supervise someone with a narcistic ps like Murray surely is suffering from... so yeah Philips better be careful with whom he touches and how... but I guess someone felt they were a drama queen and/or suffering memory loss not to mention it before? well that certainly doesn't look to nice for AEG in this trial... but I'd like to see their response first... just have a feeling only to say "It didn't happen" when a 12 years old boy saw it did, I'd say that's not convincing response enough, well if they don't wanna pay in the end.

 

[bouee]

Ok, I think you still forget that the doctor, a cardiologist has a 100% authority here over anything what Philips thinks. Please try to remember about it. Even if Philips had any doubts he always should to remember that his education and an expertise was nothing when compare to the time and money invested in doctor education.

He knew Michael's health was deteriorating under his care

yes he was and Prince said Michael wasn't at home



he said he did not hear.

Phillips & Murray at Carolwood when Michael was outside is an interesting timing and doesn't it require it to be a mid day / afternoon meeting?

I mean as far as we know Murray took Michael his breakfast around 10:00 - 12:00 AM and then left the house, Michael had lunch with the kids and left the house in the afternoon for rehearsals. Murray is called as Michael leaves rehearsals and came Carolwood a few minutes / short time before Michael.

So are we talking about a mid day meeting at Carolwood?

Afternoon maybe, why not, midday I don't think so. Kai Chase did not mention that in her testimony (she was not asked). She said she would work until 6.30 pm to 8.30 pm, depending on the days.


When I read it, I thought it was later in the evening/night, like right nefore Michael would come back.
A security cam video was played at CM's trial of the night of the 24th, I think it showed Murray arriving at Carolwood 30mn before Michael ? (not sure, will try to look it up later)

I don't see how AEG are going to prove the meeting never happened as they claim they will, especially if the don't even know the date.

What date was that email from Phillips saying that he has growing respect for Murray. (Or similar words)

It was june 20th, before the meeting, after Phillips talked to Murray on the phone for 25 mn.

Please show the exact passage of Phillips testimony that demonstrates his knowledge of MJ insomnia. it's like telling me to tour the world in order for me to know that the planet is not flat.

If Phillip could have gotten rid of Murray he would have done so long time ago considering that he hated his butt since day one. Murray was MJ choice or no concert deal. AEG even tried to suggest other doctors and MJ was having none of it.

Of course Phillips was concerned about money so would any other concert promoter in his shoes. I think MJ camp f-u-c-k-e-d up. Tohme Tohme or who ever was representing him should have thrown in the towel but they were busy making shady deals on the sideline in his name. where were his body guards and other aids? why did they not raise any concerns to those who matter most?

MJ was also under tremendous pressure. lawsuits were going to rain on him and his reputation finally up in smoke. hence he did not have the courage to truly tell those who matter that he needed a break.

that was already quoted in this thread. Below a few examples of the different versions he gave of june 20th. I think there was more, this can give you a starting point to look it up, if you want.
If you are on a computer, you can also use the search function of your browser (usually (ctrl+F) and look up "sleep" in his testimony.

Phillips said he remembers the meeting on June 20th lasted at least an hour. Dr. Murray and Phillips were sitting in one couch, MJ was in a bench and Ortega on another couch. In his deposition, Phillips said Ortega talked about MJ's physical and mental status. On the stand today, Phillips explained Ortega did very little talking in the meeting. "He addressed Michael coming to rehearsals." "I do not believe he talked about MJ's physical condition and mental state. Dr. Murray did most of the talking," Phillips testified.
...........
Without getting into details, Phillips said Ortega and Murray "were a little combative" at the meeting. Phillips said Murray reassured everyone that Jackson's health was fine. He said Jackson also assured them nothing was wrong with him. He said Murray told the group that Jackson may have had the flu, or some similar ailment. He said Jackson's health was discussed. Phillips said he couldn't recall whether Jackson's sleep issues were discussed. A portion of Randy Phillips' deposition was played in which he said sleep issues were discussed at the June 20, 2009 meeting.(AP)
.........
Phillips said lack of sleep was discussed in the June 20th meeting, but wasn't the main focus. Phillips said the reason of the meeting was to find out what happened in the night before, what was the issue and also MJ missing rehearsals.

AND you've got to wonder why a nutrtionnist / "food person" was needed, first after the june 16th meeting, then again after june 20th. As I said before 2 options : 1-Murray was working at night on sleep issues and couldn't do it, 2) Murray was not competent.

"Murray was MJ choice or no concert deal" : no, no way, not with Phillips. I think in may, they had no reason to refuse Murray. Murray was Michael's doctor, Michael wanted a doctor, so until we hear testimony that Gongaware knew of previous drug issues, I see no reason at this point to refuse that. Their worry in may was the cost, not the reason why a doctor was needed. I don't think he hated Murray from day one. Nobody did, and that's actually an AEG argument, very few people suspected Murray.
With what we heard so far, it's apparent that Phillips (and maybe others) who knew about Murray being a full time doc, knew that Murray was incompetent maybe on june 16th, definitely on june 20th. That's when Phillips could have got rid of him very easily, or threaten (again) to pull the plug if he didn't get another doctor's opinion.

"MJ was also under tremendous pressure" yes he was, but not only from the lawsuits. For example, does your boss show up at your home when you're out to talk to your doctor ?
It's very hard to imagine what Michael could have been thinking given the pressure he was under, AND his health problems the last week. He was under a lot of stress and was probably physically very tired, from those weird symptoms.

AND , this trial is about what AEG did, not Michael.

 

[AliCat]

That was interesting that Prince Jackson testified that Michael's bedroom door was locked when Murray was there. Also, when Prince called his Dad about Randy Phillips being there and his Dad saying give him food and drink. Michael liked his children to be hospitable to their guest's. That's sweet!

 

[bouee]

^Is this authentic? If it's real, then she is bipolar.

she gave me the impression of being the type of person who likes to be the centre of everything, and start problems between people, so i was not really surprised to read that.

I'm believing Prince saw something, but I think Conrad Murray who towers over Phillips and who didn't mince words in putting Ortega in his place, would swat Phillips like a fly if he really got physically threatening with him.

^ In which case i'm sure phillips would give him a playful slap on the butt. Anyway, I'm not sure murray would tend to swat like a fly the head honcho of the company paying him over $1m, esp with the contract awaiting an aeg signature - even if aeg were just performing a 'mastercard' service. Murray wd have worked out the power relationships in the tii set up.

Hey, it's a nice image. Murray popping Phillips on top of his head...may not be realistic, but gave me a giggle.

I agree with Bonnie Blue. Though we saw during ths trial and his "documentary" that Murray DOES get angry at times and can be impulsive, he certainly wished he had swat Phillips like a fly, but he didn't.

According to Kai Chase he stormed out of june 16th meeting saying "he couldn't take this shit" & couldn't handle it", yet he stayed. For the promise of 1.5 million dollars IMO.

 

[passy001]

He knew Michael's health was deteriorating under his care

Phillips said he couldn't recall whether Jackson's sleep issues were discussed. A portion of Randy Phillips' deposition was played in which he said sleep issues were discussed at the June 20, 2009 meeting.(AP)
.........
Phillips said lack of sleep was discussed in the June 20th meeting, but wasn't the main focus.

1)This still does not prove they knew MJ had insomnia. was MJ diagnosed with insomnia at the time and was that communicated to AEG by Murray? Also, for instance prince said in his testimony yesterday that since MJ death he's having trouble sleeping. does that mean prince has insomnia? Has he been diagnosed as such?

2) the so-called sleep issues were not the focused of the meeting. meaning they were perhaps mentioned in passing and it's fair to assume that AEG at that point thought MJ was just feeling the nerves of performing for the first time in more than 10 years and so needed a nutritionist perhaps to help him eat properly and stop anxieties. but the fact of the matter is that you don't treat insomnia with the care and advise of a nutritionist.

"MJ was also under tremendous pressure" yes he was, but not only from the lawsuits. For example, does your boss show up at your home when you're out to talk to your doctor ?

let me tell you that if you are the most important person to do the job then your boss will drive to your house in a rush of panic especially as the deadline gets so close. it's definitively not unreasonable. for instance when I go on vacation, I still get phone calls from work about work related issues. does that mean i'm being harassed and pushed?

It's very hard to imagine what Michael could have been thinking given the pressure he was under, AND his health problems the last week. He was under a lot of stress and was probably physically very tired, from those weird symptoms.

AND , this trial is about what AEG did, not Michael.

MJ was a grown man. not a 2 years old kid who could not talk or think for himself. the problem is that MJ was not ready for the concert yet he went ahead to sign a contract with AEG. as the deadline was getting close he was feeling the pressure and taking drugs to help him deal with the pressure. the problem though is that these drugs were deteriorating his health both mentaly and physically. but instead of throwing the towell he kept mum about it. that's because he knew what would happen if he did. 1 ) lawsuits for breach of contract. 2) PR hell from the press and tabloids waiting for him with sharp knives 3) fans frustration and disappointment. so I agree with Mechi when he said MJ realized he was in a deep hole and had no way out.

 

[bouee]

This e mail from Kenny is interesting, it's dated june 15th, and it's an answer to PG "we need to remind him e mail". We had only seen it partially before.
http://www.psblaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Exhibit-263-AEGL-32604-32605.pdf

On Sun, Jun 14,2009 at 4:11 PM, Paul Gongaware wrote:
Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face-to-face meeting
with the doctor, hopefully Monday. We want to remind him that it is AEG, not MJ
who is paying his salary. We want him to understand what is expected of him. He
has been dodging Frank so far.
PaulG

Paul
MJ did not have a good Friday and he didn't show on Saturday. He has been habitually
late (the norm). I realize he's up against a lot. I have a ton of love and sympathy for
what he's been through. We must do all that we can as a team to stay on top of his
needs everyday. He requires more attention and management. As I mentioned I truly
believe he needs nourishment guidance and physical therapy (massage) for his fatigued
muscles and injuries. He is not in great physical shape. I believe he's hurting. He has been slow at grabbing hold of the work. We have twenty days, we can't let him slip. I'm
doing all I can every day to build up his confidence and to create a schedule that will
help to ready him and to arrive us at our goals. Every time he is late or cancels it chisels
away at that possibility. There can be no more calls to Travis asking him to come to the
house. MJ needs to be told that it's time to get real. He must take care of himself so that
he can meet the schedule or there are going to be consequences. We need a healthy,
rested and ready MJ at the Forum and Staples for all the remaining rehearsals as well
as the few we have at the 02 in July. Thanks, KO

This was right before the june 16th meeting.
Kenny was still doing Michael's schedule then and mentions that Michael is not in "great physical shape".

----
I will try to update the e mail thread later this week end or next week, as I can, as I will be probably busy.

 

[bouee]

1)This still does not prove they knew MJ had insomnia. was MJ diagnosed with insomnia at the time and was that communicated to AEG by Murray? Also, for instance prince said in his testimony yesterday that since MJ death he's having trouble sleeping. does that mean prince has insomnia? Has he been diagnosed as such?

2) the so-called sleep issues were not the focused of the meeting. meaning they were perhaps mentioned in passing and it's fair to assume that AEG at that point thought MJ was just feeling the nerves of performing for the first time in more than 10 years and so needed a nutritionist perhaps to help him eat properly and stop anxieties. but the fact of the matter is that you don't treat insomnia with the care and advise of a nutritionist.

then why is so hard to say that sleep issues were talked about ? Why feel the need to lie about it, or say that you "don't remebmer" (PG) and that they were NOt talked about. What is a sleep issue if it's not insomnia ? I guess your point is to say they were not aware of how serious the insomnia was, and I agree with that. But they knew it WAS an issue.

Your'e taking this discussion back to where it was 2-3 days ago, as if we hadn't talked about it already. Why need a nutrtionnist when you have a full time doctor ? That's the point of the nutritionnist talk. PG could not explain it himself. Why can't the doctor take care of that ? Why did AEG accept that Murray couldn't take care of that ? Why did they accept to pay for a nutritionnist/food person when they had a full time doctor and costs were already well over the limit ? Because they knew it was NOT his job. And that was a good occasion to realise Murray was not competent as well.

let me tell you that if you are the most important person to do the job then your boss will drive to your house in a rush of panic especially as the deadline gets so close. it's definitively not unreasonable. for instance when I go on vacation, I still get phone calls from work about work related issues. does that mean i'm being harassed and pushed?

It's not what I said. He was there to meet Murray outside of Michael's presence, which is totally inappropriate. Why would both AEG and Murray want to deny that ? Do you think it is normal and appropriate to do that ? That was my question, not your boss calling you when you're on holidays.

MJ was a grown man. not a 2 years old kid who could not talk or think for himself. the problem is that MJ was not ready for the concert yet he went ahead to sign a contract with AEG. as the deadline was getting close he was feeling the pressure and taking drugs to help him deal with the pressure. the problem though is that these drugs were deteriorating his health both mentaly and physically. but instead of throwing the towell he kept mum about it. that's because he knew what would happen if he did. 1 ) lawsuits for breach of contract. 2) PR hell from the press and tabloids waiting for him with sharp knives 3) fans frustration and disappointment. so I agree with Mechi when he said MJ realized he was in a deep hole and had no way out.

Really , do you think that Michael was in his best shape that last week, physically and morally ?
I agree Michael has some responsabilty. Nobody said otherwise, even the Jacksons said that. This not what the trial is about, it's about what AEG did.
Do you think AEG are not grown men, who can think about what they do ? Don't you think they saw Michael was deteriorating ? Don't you think they have SOME responsability also ? They knew from day one who they were dealing with. They made the deal with Michael accordingly, thinking they were taking no risk at all, they put all the risk on Michael, even leaving the insurance to Tohme. They contributed to create a tense financial situation. They accepted to let the costs fly over the limit, without any signature. They added 19 shows, with no signature either. They pressured both Michael and the doctor. Phillips totally ignored Michael's health problems, when it was obvious they happened under Murray's care.
he did that because of the situation he contributed to create, at the time, he felt he had no choice, and put money before Michael's health. Again, I think he was totally under stress himself, and being totally unrealistic.

 

[Tygger]

Sorry, I was not clear I think. I was wondering how the broker would know about Michael not attending rehearsals, Bob Taylor was in London.

Bouee, AEG told them. Both entities were betting on the TII show going forward.

Frank is not AEG, he was Michael's manager.

Bouee, Frank was Michael’s manager (I do not believe Michael initiated that relationship but, this is my view and no matter now) but, was paid by AEG. I believe that is a conflict of interest, similar to Tohme (and allegedly the doctor).

Me too, and I'm sure he'll do well. I don't know maybe he wants this, but I think the Jacksons should have let AEG call him first. And it's good that they cleared up Paris' status saying she will be unavailable to testify.

Bouee, the oldest was truly spectacular on the stand. I believe he has been waiting to say what he has for some time. It was reported he chose the pictorial and video evidence and I think that says quite a bit about how much he wanted to participate. I find it a bit rude for some to suggest he only took the stand because of damages as if this young man is playing a part in an extortion plot.

It was also reported after he finished his deposition, he did not want his sister to do the same. He tried his best to protect her. The plaintiffs’ attorney has said Michael’s daughter is waiting for the ok from her doctor to excuse her from testifying. This is the correct protocol. The plaintiffs cannot simply say she is not testifying; a doctor must excuse her.

how can you hire a tour doctor without incorporating tour termination and cancellation into the contract? do you offer them a job for 2 years guaranteed, regardless of tour happening or being cancelled at any point? Who does that, realistically?

Ivy, one of the issues in this trial is Gongaware being aware of Michael’s dependency issues in the past and how doctors’ accommodated those issues. It would stand to reason why a doctor Michael was very persistent on keeping should have been vetted by AEG before going about an alleged negligent hire.

Dr. Matheson did not suggest Michael being taken to an ER by force. He suggested an ER so Michael would be seen by a neutral doctor; one not beholden to AEG and one not controlled by Michael as Dr. Earley suggested.

You can hire a tour doctor and of course, incorporate tour termination and cancellation into the contract. However, this doctor was not to be a tour doctor; this doctor was to be Michael’s personal doctor to help him with sleep issues. A personal doctor should be allowed to continue to treat Michael whether the tour was terminated or cancelled.

The only way to avoid conflict was for AEG to not deal with the doctor whatsoever except to advance monies to Michael to pay him. Fronting $34M and the lower amount of $1.5M was the same question the defense asked two different way. Both are preproduction cost figures which included AEG as the alleged employer.

So Phillips's testimony about managing Michael's affairs / lawsuits seems to be true. AEG was involved -one way or another - in 3 lawsuits which could have an effect on TII concerts.

Who said AEG lied about that? Of course they were involved in anything and everything that would ensure or prevent Michael’s involvement with TII.

team of doctors

Ivy, Jamba, many people have a team of doctors and may not even realize it. Most women over a certain age, with medical benefits, are encouraged to have a general practitioner and OB/GYN and undergo Breast Cancer Screening, Colorectal cancer screening, Heart disease screening, and Bone health tests, among many other preventative items. Several medical professionals are involved in this. Is that not a team? Michael should have had one as well.

people keep omitting that Murray was also an internal medicine doctor - many of which can act as a family practitioner / general care doctor

Ivy, I will admit to being shocked by that post. I will simply say, none of this makes him an anesthesiologist.

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Prince said security would let AEG people and Dr. Tohme in, but "people like my grandpa were turned away."
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
"My dad didn't fight, he was like my grandma, too kind to fight, that's why he called my grandpa," Prince said.

This was interesting. Did AEG control who could come to Carolwood without Michael's knowledge?

 

[Mechi]

I agree with bouee strongly. To me it's clear:
a) AEGppl hired the doctor
b) AEGppl saw Michaels health deterioating
c) instead of acting accordingly they did put pressure on everybody, the guy who was hired as the doc included (even Prince Michael had to witness it!)

about c)... see they had knowledge of the sleeping issues, they had knowledge about psychological issues... hmmmm and they hired a nutritionist. I agree the last could be done also by a doctor of cardiology or even internist... but they hired a nutritionist. Well it's certainly ok for every doc to get a specialist for whatever into the boat... but weight can't even have been the main factor... read the coroners report... Michaels weight was pretty much okay. *shrugs*

Okay we didn't see things yet as AEG has to present their side in this still... and it's just normal cuz this is the Jacksons view on things for now only... but well I'm wondering how they want to digg themselves out of this again... and I make a strong guess sudden memory loss and revealing themselves as drama queens will not be enough.

But well let's wait and see...

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Intresting that jr confirmed the mj gave murray money via them when they were back in vegas. that doesnt help the j.sons and trying to imply it was aeg that stopped joe from coming to carolwood.its certainly well documented that mj didnt want his father and other family members in his houses/hotels over the year.

i just hope jr didnt willingly comit perjury for the j.sons re the meeting. i presume security logs or guards testimony etc could confirm whether they were on the property. i find it strange that jr claims he rung mj and that was the last time he spoke to his dad. i understand u may get days mixed up but surely u will never forget the last time u spoke to him.

so panish still wants paris on the stand. no surprise. it would be great for dramatic effect.

did the judge rule on how any winnings gets dived yet?

 

[bouee]

I agree with bouee strongly. To me it's clear:
a) AEGppl hired the doctor
b) AEGppl saw Michaels health deterioating
c) instead of acting accordingly they did put pressure on everybody, the guy who was hired as the doc included (even Prince Michael had to witness it!)

about c)... see they had knowledge of the sleeping issues, they had knowledge about psychological issues... hmmmm and they hired a nutritionist. I agree the last could be done also by a doctor of cardiology or even internist... but they hired a nutritionist. Well it's certainly ok for every doc to get a specialist for whatever into the boat... but weight can't even have been the main factor... read the coroners report... Michaels weight was pretty much okay. *shrugs*

Okay we didn't see things yet as AEG has to present their side in this still... and it's just normal cuz this is the Jacksons view on things for now only... but well I'm wondering how they want to digg themselves out of this again... and I make a strong guess sudden memory loss and revealing themselves as drama queens will not be enough.

But well let's wait and see...

I agree with you, completely.

I believe weight would have been an issue to do 50 shows, not for Michael's health strictly speaking. But it is interesting to see it from AEg's point of view , because they thought it was an issue- not knowing if it really was or not as they are not doctors- so they first asked Murray to take care of it, according to them, then they switch to nutritionnists/ food persons, twice, after each meeting.

I don't know how AEG are going to defend themselves, apart from putting all the blame on Michael. We'll see, I'm curious, because I don't see either how they can get out of this.

Who said AEG lied about that? Of course they were involved in anything and everything that would ensure or prevent Michael’s involvement with TII.

I said - and still think - that Phillips liked to represent himself as more imortant than what he really is. I gave that example that he told Ortega he was "crisis managing myriads of lawsuits on an everyday basis" or something to that effect. Which was not true. Apparently AEG lawyers, or lawyers paid by AEG did, but not him. That's how the conversation started, so Ivy posted the info that AEG lawyers were dealing with Michael's lawsuits.

 

[Tygger]

I said - and still think - that Phillips liked to represent himself as more imortant than what he really is. I gave that example that he told Ortega he was "crisis managing myriads of lawsuits on an everyday basis" or something to that effect. Which was not true. Apparently AEG lawyers, or lawyers paid by AEG did, but not him. That's how the conversation started, so Ivy posted the info that AEG lawyers were dealing with Michael's lawsuits.

Thank you for clarifying. I agree Phillips made himself to be more important but, he did work for a company full of drama queens so we should expected this. laughs

It was refreshing to hear Leiweke's deposition. I have not heard an AEG employee say they "do not remember" in a number of days.

 

[Vici]

Full home movie from Christmas that was shown in court. Its from 2006. Prince is 9, Paris 8 and Blanket 4 years old.

[youtube]eRC44w5A_yI[/youtube]


An excerpt of footage shown in court containing the lyrics to Michael Jackson's "You Are My Life" and a montage of photos and video of Michael and his children, including when Michael got them a dog.

[youtube]nmg889yz1yo[/youtube]

Early home video of Prince and Paris, as shown in court. "My name is daddy's baby".

[youtube]L_GNpghheJ0[/youtube]

Footage shown in court of Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch. Including the zoo and amusement rides.

[youtube]0dpabVISKic[/youtube]

Videos from MJJRNet.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Have the family actually shown any evidence in relation to what the case is actually about ie contract law and who hired murray. have to say im not following the case. only came here after i was told jr was on the stand

 

[bouee]

another very interesting e mail : this is a scanned image, and I'll post it as a picture in the email thread later.

it's the e mail chain and the explanation as to why Timm Wolley told Bob taylor that Murray was in charge of Michael's schedule on june 23.
Apparently Bob Taylor had heard about possible changes about the shows schedule, and / or it was likely talked about at AEG.

http://www.psblaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Exhibit-336-RTI-46.pdf

 

[Vici]

Pictures shown in court:

 

[bouee]

Have the family actually shown any evidence in relation to what the case is actually about ie contract law and who hired murray. have to say im not following the case. only came here after i was told jr was on the stand

Nice to see you here Elusive ...pfff .... looong story .

-they have shown Murray's contract was an AEG-Murray contract (Michael was not a party to it, but had to sign it to make it valid), Michael or his lawyers were never informed of the contract, that Murray had an independant contractor contract like other tour employees, was budgeted on the tour cost (which would have been paid back by Michael on 95% basis if the shows happened, so AEG would have paid 5% of his salary, 100% on Michael if the shows did not happen-But Murray's contract said it would be 100% on Michae)l. They showed that AEG should and could have made a cash advance to Michael instead of entering into a contract with the doctor. For example, like all other personnal employees, like Kai Chase, housekeepers, security, who did not have a contract with AEG and were paid by Michael, out of a cash advance.

-there a e mail form may 6 I think, from gongaware to MAW, were Pg confirms the deal with Murray is done, another mail where Pg says Murray would be full time on tour by may 15th, and the first draft of the Murray contract was sent on june 15th to Murray, the last draft of the contract was sent to Murray on june 23rd, so Michael did not have the time to sign it/see it, AEG claims that since it was unexecuted (ie not signed by AEG & Michael), it was not valid, therefore Murray was not hired.

-they showed that AEG was treating Murray as a tour employee (he was involved in at least 3 meetings) and that AEG directly or indirectly pressured Murray. (by having a contract with him, delaying signature and payment, and making it clear to Murray that Michael would be in trouble if he didn't show up for rehearsals, & murray's contract would have been terminated if the shows didn't happen)

-they showed that Michael's health was declining under Murray's care, and that AEG knew it.

-they showed that a background check would have shown that Murray had financial problems, and they showed that Murray had been suspended from 1 or 2 hospitals before (I don't think this last info was accessible to AEG)

-AEG have not started their case yet, but a few arguments in their favor : Murray started to work at Carolwood in april, though not full time, the contract started on may 1st. Michael was paying Murray through the kids because AEG was not (because the contract was not executed) & Murray did not accept money from Michael. Murray was in contact with AEG, asking for payments since he started to work on 1st may, at least officially, but AEG's accountant refused because the contract was not signed.
Other tour employees were in the same situation (not paid), but their contracts did not require Michael's signature, they were paid after Michael died.

-AEg says they did not do background checks on Murray, because that's not their policy, and Murray was recommened by Michael, he was his family doctor.

-Jacksons show that the tour costs went well over the agreed limit, and AEG had no signature for that, they had no signature for the 19 extra shows (they say they had an oral agreement from Tohme & Michael), that the shows were not insured for sickness on june 25th. (AEG said Tohme was supposed to do it, but he was fired)

Other posters may think of other things, that's all i can think of for now.

------

Other interesting e mails :

Timm Wooley to Murray, about his "work conditions" and equipment, dated may 28th.
http://www.psblaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Exhibit-177-WOOLLEY-5646.pdf

Karen's contract , quite differnt from Murray's IMO. from other e mails, it looks like kathy jorrie is not AEG, it looks like she's from another lawfirm.
http://www.psblaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Exhibit-8651.pdf

Emails from Branca saying michael should not sign anything that either him or Joel katz have not seen first. It's a response to Phillips account from the june 20th meeting, where he mentions stuff related to the jacksons and allgood : (Branca answers twice : 1st answer on page 1- second answer, about Allgood and jacksons, on page 4).

http://www.psblaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Exhibit-304-JB-16-21.pdf

 

[elusive moonwalker]

thanks bouee. i bet its a long story lol. kind of u to do that. tbh im doing pretty well staying away from the case at the moment.bar the first few days ive stayed away from it and been clueless about whos testifying and what crap is being thrown. personally the whole thing pisses me off so much and with everything thats happening with pj and robson ect that physically and mentally im not really in a position to be able to cope with hearing everything that been said and done. ignorance has been rather bliss this last few months!! as if i didnt come in here i woudnt even know the lawsuit excisted.

anyway i think its time i went back under my rock of ignorance. hearing jr caught up in this is something i really didnt want to know about

 

[LastTear]

Have the family actually shown any evidence in relation to what the case is actually about ie contract law and who hired murray. have to say im not following the case. only came here after i was told jr was on the stand

Not a lot IMO but Jackson lawyers have done a fine job of showing just how much these children have lost, which shouldn't really be in any doubt.

************

Re karen Faye email..... wow

 

[LastTear]

It would be interesting to compile a timeline for all the events, rehearsals and emails, any volunteers? lol

20th June Phillips has growing respect for Murray (thanks bouee)

23rd June RP & murray have taken over rehearsal schedule.

24th June Michael was at rehearsals (pm) and Phillips was also there.

I'm not sure at the moment where this meeting Prince testified about fits in.