Latest on MJJC

Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Status
Not open for further replies.
Diane can keep it shut if you ask me. The love people have for Michael will go on after this trial.
 
Tygger;3853827 said:
I read Cascio's book and I found many passages to be false. In those passages, I believe he was referring to the History tour but, I do not remember (or care). Maybe someone who enjoyed the book (I did not) can speak more to those passages. Both Cascio and Ratner are on the defense's witness list.
Click to expand...

Frank Cascio never mentioned Michael’s use of Propofol during HIStory Tour. According to his witness in his book, this was after MJ & Friends concert in Munich, after the accident of bridge falling during his "Earth Song" performance, in June 1999, ten years before his death. Dr Ratner and another doctor came to Michael’s hotel room with all equipment necessary to administer Propofol.

---- from “My friend Michael”, pages 126-127 :

“During the Munich performance, he stepped onto a big bridge that spanned the front of the stage. It was raised up, lifting him fifty feet in the air; just as it had in Korea. It was supposed to descend gradually during the song. It plummeted to the stage with a loud crash. This not happened in Korea. What the f***?

Ever the showman, Michael never stopped singing, even as he fell. When the bridge landed, he was still standing. He later told us that he had jumped at the moment of impact, which may have saved him from more serious injury, but even so, he wasn’t in great shape.

Instantly, without thinking, I ran onto the stage along with the security team. At the end of the song, the lights went out, and Michael collapsed in to our arms. With security, I helped him off the bridge. The audience, who at first must have assumed the falling bridge was part of the show, saw us rush in and realized what they witnessed. A worried murmur went through the crowed.

A full-size tank rolled onstage, and a soldier emerged from it holding a gun. Offered a flower by a child, the soldier sank to his knees and wept. Michael finished the performance, at times bending over in pain. Afterwards, backstage, he was clearly in a lot of pain, but continued the show.

“My father told me no matter what, the show must go on”, he said.

So he went back out, sat down on the edge of the stage, and sang his last song, “You Are Not Alone”. Security helped him off the stage.

For some reason –I can only think it had to do with the press—we didn’t take an ambulance to a hospital. Instead we got into the black van we’d arrived in and started driving around, trying to find a clinic that was open at that hour of night. It took the driver forty-five minutes to find one. As we drove in circles around a city that was strange to me, I grew increasingly frustrated. I couldn’t believe this was happening. Our driver was German, but he kept getting lost. Why hadn’t we taken an ambulance? Ordinary I’m a pretty patient and respectful person, but when people aren’t on top of things, it drives me crazy. I lost it and started yelling at the driver. Meanwhile, Michael was in the backseat, barely conscious. The tour’s doctor was taking his pulse, and I was telling him that everything was going to be fine. Moment earlier, I had been casually absorbing the rhythms of Michael’s world. Now my instincts kicked in. Michael’s welfare became my responsibility.

At last we reached a clinic, and I filled out the paperwork to check Michael in. A short time later, when I went back to see him, he was lying in a hospital bed. Miraculously, or because of his instinctive jump at impact, he hadn’t broken anything, but his lower back hurt so much that he could barely breath. Speaking very softly, he told me to find out who had been responsible for the accident. He wanted someone fired. I hesitated when he asked me too call Kenny Ortega, the producer of the show, to get bottom of it, because it was three o’clock in the morning and Kenny Ortega was a big deal, but if Michael wanted it done, I was his man. I found the number and wake up Kenny. Michael was in too much pain to speak to him, so I spoke for him. Kenny apologized and told us he would figure out what had gone wrong and why.

By the time, we finally made it back to the hotel, it was five in the morning. (…)

-----------

Frank Cascio also decribed Michael’s use of Propofol in summer following this accident in Munich.

--- pp 171-172

When we’d arrived at the town house on the Upper East Side during the summer of 1999, it had become clear to me that Michael’s drug use was escalating. There were times when he asked me to bring in one doctor, and then, hours later, a second doctor, to give him more of the same medication the first one had administered. Michal had always wanted me away from cocaine, heroin, pot – a warning that he himself followed. But he didn’t view conventional, FDA-approved drugs the same way he viewed illegal ones. He was searching for relief from chronic conditions. He was trying to get better. Different rules applied.

The situation became even more confusing at the town house when an anesthesiologist started showing up two or three times a week, to help Michael to sleep. I paid the man in cash, because all of Michael’s medical issues had to be kept from the public and their cost off the books. The doctor was perfectly straightforward with me.

“What I do” he said, “is put Michael to sleep for a couple of hours. Then I ease him out of sleep.” It was the same treatment I had witnessed after Michael’s accident in Munich. The doctor would set up equipment and an IV in Michael’s room, and would stay with him, the door closed, for about four hours. He said that the treatment was risky, but he assured me that he knew what he was doing. He promised that he would never endanger Michael’s life. His candor and his expertise with the procedure made me trust him.

Whatever the doctor was doing seemed to be okay: after the sessions, Michael was cleaned and seemed well rested. Again, I witnessed but did not understand that Michael was being given Propofol, a powerful anesthetic that is used in hospital to knock patients out for surgery. This was a measure of the depth of Michael’s pain, and the sleep problems that went along with it. When his schedule called for him to begin work early in the morning, without the option of sleeping in, he found it hard to fall asleep early enough to get the rest he needed in order to perform. On those nights, he couldn’t sleep unless his dangerous drug –the drug that would eventually killed him—was administrated. For a long time I thought it was okay and normal. I didn’t think he had a drug problem. Over the years, I had grown accustomed to seeing doctors coming and going, particularly during tours, when Michael was under great stress and needed help falling asleep. I thought he was simply someone who had serious medical problems and used drugs to treat them.

However, as work on ‘Invincible’ preceded, I was becoming more and more concerned. I knew Michael needed drugs to cope with the pain of his skin treatments : that made sense. But the necessity of some of the other drugs seemed questionable –the drugs for his chronic pain, the drug to sleep. Obviously I didn’t want Michael to suffer needlessly, and I didn’t want him to be an insomniac, yet it was clear that the continual use of drugs was taking a toll. Michael’s physical conditions were leading him down a dangerous path.

Even the doctor who administrated the Propofol had told me, “I can’t keep doing this,” which I took to be clear indication that it was starting to be too much.__________


Personnally, I do not think Frank inventing stories, I believe his witness is true and sincere, at least about Michael's use of Propofol in June and August 1999.
 
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3m
Testimony just ended for the day. Michael Jackson's son, Prince, will take the stand tomorrow!

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 2m
T.J. Jackson, the co-conservator of MJ's children, will testify after Prince. Taj, T.J.'s brother, will come on Thursday.
 
laeticia.fr;3854113 said:
Frank Cascio never mentioned Michael’s use of Propofol during HIStory Tour. According to his witness in his book, this was after MJ & Friends concert in Munich, after the accident of bridge falling during his "Earth Song" performance, in June 1999, ten years before his death. Dr Ratner and another doctor came to Michael’s hotel room with all equipment necessary to administer Propofol.

---- from “My friend Michael”, pages 126-127 :

“During the Munich performance, he stepped onto a big bridge that spanned the front of the stage. It was raised up, lifting him fifty feet in the air; just as it had in Korea. It was supposed to descend gradually during the song. It plummeted to the stage with a loud crash. This not happened in Korea. What the f***?

Ever the showman, Michael never stopped singing, even as he fell. When the bridge landed, he was still standing. He later told us that he had jumped at the moment of impact, which may have saved him from more serious injury, but even so, he wasn’t in great shape.

Instantly, without thinking, I ran onto the stage along with the security team. At the end of the song, the lights went out, and Michael collapsed in to our arms. With security, I helped him off the bridge. The audience, who at first must have assumed the falling bridge was part of the show, saw us rush in and realized what they witnessed. A worried murmur went through the crowed.

A full-size tank rolled onstage, and a soldier emerged from it holding a gun. Offered a flower by a child, the soldier sank to his knees and wept. Michael finished the performance, at times bending over in pain. Afterwards, backstage, he was clearly in a lot of pain, but continued the show.

“My father told me no matter what, the show must go on”, he said.

So he went back out, sat down on the edge of the stage, and sang his last song, “You Are Not Alone”. Security helped him off the stage.

For some reason –I can only think it had to do with the press—we didn’t take an ambulance to a hospital. Instead we got into the black van we’d arrived in and started driving around, trying to find a clinic that was open at that hour of night. It took the driver forty-five minutes to find one. As we drove in circles around a city that was strange to me, I grew increasingly frustrated. I couldn’t believe this was happening. Our driver was German, but he kept getting lost. Why hadn’t we taken an ambulance? Ordinary I’m a pretty patient and respectful person, but when people aren’t on top of things, it drives me crazy. I lost it and started yelling at the driver. Meanwhile, Michael was in the backseat, barely conscious. The tour’s doctor was taking his pulse, and I was telling him that everything was going to be fine. Moment earlier, I had been casually absorbing the rhythms of Michael’s world. Now my instincts kicked in. Michael’s welfare became my responsibility.

At last we reached a clinic, and I filled out the paperwork to check Michael in. A short time later, when I went back to see him, he was lying in a hospital bed. Miraculously, or because of his instinctive jump at impact, he hadn’t broken anything, but his lower back hurt so much that he could barely breath. Speaking very softly, he told me to find out who had been responsible for the accident. He wanted someone fired. I hesitated when he asked me too call Kenny Ortega, the producer of the show, to get bottom of it, because it was three o’clock in the morning and Kenny Ortega was a big deal, but if Michael wanted it done, I was his man. I found the number and wake up Kenny. Michael was in too much pain to speak to him, so I spoke for him. Kenny apologized and told us he would figure out what had gone wrong and why.

By the time, we finally made it back to the hotel, it was five in the morning. (…)

-----------

Frank Cascio also decribed Michael’s use of Propofol in summer following this accident in Munich.

--- pp 171-172

When we’d arrived at the town house on the Upper East Side during the summer of 1999, it had become clear to me that Michael’s drug use was escalating. There were times when he asked me to bring in one doctor, and then, hours later, a second doctor, to give him more of the same medication the first one had administered. Michal had always wanted me away from cocaine, heroin, pot – a warning that he himself followed. But he didn’t view conventional, FDA-approved drugs the same way he viewed illegal ones. He was searching for relief from chronic conditions. He was trying to get better. Different rules applied.

The situation became even more confusing at the town house when an anesthesiologist started showing up two or three times a week, to help Michael to sleep. I paid the man in cash, because all of Michael’s medical issues had to be kept from the public and their cost off the books. The doctor was perfectly straightforward with me.

“What I do” he said, “is put Michael to sleep for a couple of hours. Then I ease him out of sleep.” It was the same treatment I had witnessed after Michael’s accident in Munich. The doctor would set up equipment and an IV in Michael’s room, and would stay with him, the door closed, for about four hours. He said that the treatment was risky, but he assured me that he knew what he was doing. He promised that he would never endanger Michael’s life. His candor and his expertise with the procedure made me trust him.

Whatever the doctor was doing seemed to be okay: after the sessions, Michael was cleaned and seemed well rested. Again, I witnessed but did not understand that Michael was being given Propofol, a powerful anesthetic that is used in hospital to knock patients out for surgery. This was a measure of the depth of Michael’s pain, and the sleep problems that went along with it. When his schedule called for him to begin work early in the morning, without the option of sleeping in, he found it hard to fall asleep early enough to get the rest he needed in order to perform. On those nights, he couldn’t sleep unless his dangerous drug –the drug that would eventually killed him—was administrated. For a long time I thought it was okay and normal. I didn’t think he had a drug problem. Over the years, I had grown accustomed to seeing doctors coming and going, particularly during tours, when Michael was under great stress and needed help falling asleep. I thought he was simply someone who had serious medical problems and used drugs to treat them.

However, as work on ‘Invincible’ preceded, I was becoming more and more concerned. I knew Michael needed drugs to cope with the pain of his skin treatments : that made sense. But the necessity of some of the other drugs seemed questionable –the drugs for his chronic pain, the drug to sleep. Obviously I didn’t want Michael to suffer needlessly, and I didn’t want him to be an insomniac, yet it was clear that the continual use of drugs was taking a toll. Michael’s physical conditions were leading him down a dangerous path.

Even the doctor who administrated the Propofol had told me, “I can’t keep doing this,” which I took to be clear indication that it was starting to be too much.__________


Personnally, I do not think Frank inventing stories, I believe his witness is true and sincere, at least about Michael's use of Propofol in June and August 1999.
Click to expand...

Frank did invent stories. In that extract you posted he talks about rushing on to the stage and helping Michael off the bridge in Munich. I was there and that never happened.

He then says he sat on the edge of the stage to perform the last song (YANA) Again, didn't happen like that.
 
I pray that Prince will be okay and he will be to handle it tomorrow. I don't think anyone would dare try to badger him. I just wish he didn't have to do this.
 
marebear said:
I pray that Prince will be okay and he will be to handle it tomorrow. I don't think anyone would dare try to badger him. I just wish he didn't have to do this.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way. But, I think he is such a smart young man and knows a lot more than anyone thinks. He's also very independent--remember how he handled last year's disappearance of his grandmother on Twitter issuing a statement from "Michael Jackson, Jr." He is nobody's fool and is his father's son.

No attorney in his/her right mind would even think of badgering him.

marebear said:
Diane can keep it shut if you ask me. The love people have for Michael will go on after this trial.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. She's got to know what an irritant she is to Michael's fans as she now trys to pander to all of us. Ignoring her is best.
 
Last edited:
marebear said:
I pray that Prince will be okay and he will be to handle it tomorrow. I don't think anyone would dare try to badger him. I just wish he didn't have to do this.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone would badger him but he will be asked about the events surrounding his father's death. It cannot be easy for him.
 
LastTear said:
Oh bless you. No these people couldn't sleep AT ALL, they ALL had a condition that effects a portion of the brain. It was described like a switch that got stuck in one position. Don't worry yourself.
Click to expand...


Thats the thing i havent been l;ike sleeping barely at all which is why im freaking out
 
laeticia.fr, StellaJackson, thank you for your accounts.

Great testimony today from Dr. Matheson. He gave common sense answers and held firm to his opinion.
 
Ashtanga said:
Oh God, then Prince will testify!? :bugeyed :no: Here we go.... :( The family should have spared him. No need to exposing further the boy. This family.... :perrin:
Click to expand...

I'm dreading it. And, I agree--the family should have spared him from testifying and Paris from giving a deposition. They should have left them out of the lawsuit completely--but then they wouldn't have been able to file it at all.

I still cannot believe they're making him do this a day after the 4th anniversary.
 
"Matheson testified that the contract made him answerable to AEG rather than his patient, and that because he would have been out of a job if the 50 concerts had been postponed, Murray was more likely to want to please the company."

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...interest-expert-says-20130625,0,4567922.story

This guy is making $500 an hour as an expert to testify and this is what his expert opinion is?!

I cannot agree with this expert just because Conrad Murray and Michael Jackson were pulling the wool over AEG Live's eyes.

Come on, Murray told Ortega off, calling him an amateur medical professional and to stick to what he did best, not telling Murray what was best for his patient!
 
Last edited:
I wish the oldest strength, support, and courage. I will be proud of him no matter what.
 
Tygger said:
The insurance company had a vested interest in Michael performing as well. If he cancelled or did not appear, they would have to payout the $17.5M policy.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was not clear I think. I was wondering how the broker would know about Michael not attending rehearsals, Bob Taylor was in London.

passy001 said:
I don't think they knew MJ was having insomnia or worse was being pumped with drugs. and the fact that MJ was consulting otrher doctors was just adding to the confusion. They had no idea. Even so, they have not proven that AEG hired Murray. That is one grey area that has not been established.
Click to expand...

What is a "sleep issue then" ?

Why is it so difficult to say they were discussed ? Phillips gave 3 different versions about that before admitting they were discussed, PG said in his depo he didn't remember, then when he testified he was sure they were NOT discussed.

If they had to use a nutritionnist/food person, they acknowledged Murray couldn't take care of it. So there are 2 options : 1) the doctor was incompetent or 2 ) the doctor was working on sleep issues, at night and couldn't take care of nutrition. Seeing that Michael did not improve in spite of Murray's "care", it was option 1 AND option 2, IMO.

I never said, and I don't think they thought Murray was doing something so dangerous that he could kill Michael, they had no way of understanding that, the judge made it clear. And it is obvioulsy not what AEG or even Murray wanted, that's clear.
That's not even what the Jacksons are saying IMO in this trial. They are saying AEG was "a factor" in Michael's death, not that they directly and intentionnally contributed to it.
It's AEG that is taking it further saying "who's responsible for Michael's death" (and including everyone except Murray).

Whether AEG hired Murray or not is for the jury to decide, IMO, the Jacksons HAVE proved it, in many ways.
 
Last edited:
serendipity said:
Thanks. I think they probably did give him the advance. It's not clear why he didn't pay Murray or made the salary offer to him directly. I wonder if MAW will be testifying? He may clear some of those questions.



I think the money he gave Thome for a house were probably his own money. Never heard this story about Katherine before. What was that about, a motor home? But knowing how she operates, wouldn't surprise me if it wes true. It may explain why he couldn't pay Murray.
Click to expand...

That's interesting.

I remember seeing an interview with Frank DiLeo, where he said he tried to dissuade Michael about hiring Murray. Didn't Phillips say that too ?

Frank is not AEG, he was Michael's manager.

But that doesn't change the fact that the decsion to do an independant contractor contract to Murray came from AEG, or they agreed to it. They still could have made another advance instead of paying him. They were giving the money anyway.
 
Tygger said:
I wish the oldest strength, support, and courage. I will be proud of him no matter what.
Click to expand...

Me too, and I'm sure he'll do well. I don't know maybe he wants this, but I think the Jacksons should have let AEG call him first.
And it's good that they cleared up Paris' status saying she will be unavailable to testify.
 
8701girl said:
Thats the thing i havent been l;ike sleeping barely at all which is why im freaking out
Click to expand...

But you are sleeping a little, that's ok, these people who died couldn't even sleep for one second. Don't stress about it or you will only make it worse. Learn some meditation and play relaxing classical music, if that doesn't work then seek outside help. I hope it improves soon for you.
 
Bonnie Blue;3853948 said:
You mean to get mj to attend rehearsals, I'm sure they would have done. It's interesting to read the emails about the 19th june crisis. After reading that really heartrending email from orgeta, randy is concerned, but his concern seems to be as much about ortega as mj - 'this guy is starting to concern me'. He goes to great lengths to reassure ortega that murray is a top notch doc as he seems concerned that ortega might be tempted to pull mj out of tii as he doesn't think mj is ready for it - he just seems to want to keep a lid on it all.
Click to expand...

yes, to get Michael to rehearsals. And yes, it's clear Phillips was more interested in dealing with Ortega than Michael's health.


Bonnie Blue;3853948 said:
It looks like it was on the 16th acc to emails.
Click to expand...
you are right, I had not paid attention to the word "yesterday" in Phillips e mail. So it was on the 16th.
Email from 6/17/09 from Phillips: ...Ortega, Gongaware, Dileo, and his doctor Conrad from Vegas and I have an intervention with him to get him to focus and come to rehearsal (ABC7)
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 4 h
Panish showed an email dated 6/17/09 from Phillips to Dr. Tohme: Kenny Ortega, Gongaware, DiLeo, his doctor named Conrad from Vegas and I
Email cont'd: have an intervention with him to get him to focus and come to rehearsals yesterday.
Email cont'd: Getting him fully engaged is difficult and the most pressing matter as we are only 20 days out from the first show.
Click to expand...

That confirms what I have been thinking : It's imossible that PG does not remember his "remind him who's paying his salary" e mail, that he had sent just the day before the meeting.

Gongaware to Kenny Ortega that said “We want to remind him that it is AEG, not MJ who is paying his salary”. In his deposition Gongaware repeatedly said he didn’t remember the email or recall what it meant (AP) (from opening statements).
Another part of the same email chain, from Gongaware: "Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face-to-face meeting w/ the doctor... We want to remind him that it's AEG not MJ who's paying his salary We want him to understand what is expected of him. He has been dodging Frank so far.” (ABC7)
Panish showed the email that was forwarded to Frank DiLeo and Phillips was cc'd containing the mention that AEG, not MJ, pays Dr. Murray.
Click to expand...
On June 15, 2009, Gongaware sent and emai to Ortega in response to request for nutritionist and physical therapist for MJ. Email: We're on it. AEG owns major sports teams in this market so we think we can find the right people quickly. Kenny responded: Super.Not a minute too soon. Let's turn this guy around! (ABC7)
Click to expand...
Email from 6/17/09 from Gongaware to Phillip's assistant: "We need a physical therapist and a nutritionist" (ABC7)
Click to expand...

That's a 3rd confirmation that PG actually WAS at the meeting (after KO and Kai Chase)
 
8701girl said:
Thats the thing i havent been l;ike sleeping barely at all which is why im freaking out
Click to expand...

Maybe you should see a doctor ? He would probabaly reassure you.
My advice, be careful with sleeping pills. At least here in France, I don't know about Australia, they tend to prescribe pills without investigating what the problem is. You should not accept that. Pills could be necessary, i'm not saying they're not but they are not always necessary.
I had severe sleep issues myself, and was perfectly treated after a sleep study, with no medication at all, after I refused medication from my doctor. It happened 4 years ago, and I've been sleeping like a baby since that.
 
bouee said:
I never said, and I don't think they thought Murray was doing something so dangerous that he could kill Michael, they had no way of understanding that, the judge made it clear. And it is obvioulsy not what AEG or even Murray wanted, that's clear.
That's not even what the Jacksons are saying IMO in this trial. They are saying AEG was "a factor" in Michael's death, not that they directly and intentionnally contributed to it.
Click to expand...

I don't think the term "a factor" accurately depicts what the Jacksons are saying. This is a wrongful death suit with negligent hiring as the base for it. AEG is being accused of being a major contributing factor. The trial itself and the enormous award being mentioned indicates that. They are in effect being charged with being an indirect cause of MJ's death which is a far more egregious accusation than just the term "a factor" suggests.
 
gerryevans said:
I don't think the term "a factor" accurately depicts what the Jacksons are saying. This is a wrongful death suit with negligent hiring as the base for it. AEG is being accused of being a major contributing factor. The trial itself and the enormous award being mentioned indicates that. They are in effect being charged with being an indirect cause of MJ's death which is a far more egregious accusation than just the term "a factor" suggests.
Click to expand...

The term "factor" is in the Jackson's verdict form. Since the judge rejected a lot of the initial claim, maybe it was in their initial claim (I don't remember), but it's not there anymore :
It says "AEG's negligence was a substantial factor" which is different IMO than "being responsible for his death"

ivy said:
This thread is to bring information about proposed verdict form by Katherine Jackson and AEG.

Katherine Jackson / Plaintiff's proposed verdict form

1. Were any defendants (AEG Live, Gongaware, Phillips) negligent in hiring, retaining or supervising Conrad Murray?

Yes / No

If you answered Yes then answer question 2. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.

2. Was defendants negligence a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?

Yes / No

If you answered Yes then answer question 3. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.

3.4.5.6 What are plaintiff (KJ, Prince, Paris, Blanket) total wrongful death damages for the death of Michael Jackson?

economic damages (past support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
economic damages (future support, contribution gifts/benefits) _______________
non economic damages (past love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________
non economic damages (future love, companionship,comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection,society, moral support, training and guidance) __________________


AEG, Gongaware, Phillips / Defendant's proposed verdict form

1. Who hired Conrad Murray?

Michael Jackson Yes /No
AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No
No one Yes/No

If you answer as no to as to each defendant stop, if you answered yes as to any defendant answer question 2

2. Did the parties agree that any contract between any defendant and Conrad Murray had to be in writing and signed by Michael Jackson to be binding on the parties

Yes / No

If answered yes answer question 3, if answered No go to question 4

3. Did Michael Jackson sign a written agreement between any defendant and Conrad Murray?

Yes / No

If answered no stop, if answered yes go to question 4.

4. Was there an oral agreement between any defendant and Conrad Murray such that Conrad Murray would perform independent contractor services for that defendant even without a written and signed contract?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

go on to question 5

5. Was there an agreement created by conduct between any defendant and Conrad Murray such that Conrad Murray would perform independent contractor services for that defendant even without a written and signed contract?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

If you answered no as to each defendant at questions 4 and 5 stop, if you answered yes to any defendant go on to question 6.

6. Did defendants establish , by clear and convincing evidence , that Michael Jackson agreed that he, not defendants, would be responsible for any negligence committed by Conrad Murray?

Yes / No

If you answered yes stop, if you answered no go to question 7.

7. During Conrad Murray's engagement in connection with TII concerts was Murray unfit or incompetent to treat Jackson's general medical needs?

Yes / No

If answered no, stop, if answered yes go to question 8.

8. Did any defendant knew, or should have known, of specific facts that would have put defendant on notice that Conrad Murray was unfit or incompetent to be Michael Jackson's personal physician?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

If you answered no as to each defendant stop, if you answered yes to any defendant go on to question 9.

9. If a reasonable person had known the facts you identified in response to question 8, would it have been foreseeable to that person Conrad Murray was likely to harm Michael Jackson in the specific way that Conrad Murray harmed Michael Jackson?

Yes / No

If you answered no stop, if you answered yes go on to question 10.

10. Did Conrad Murray's unfitness or incompetence harm Michael Jackson?

Yes / No

If you answered no stop, if you answered yes go on to question 11

11. Was any of the defendants negligence in hiring Conrad Murray a substantial factor in causing plaintiffs harm?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

If you answered no stop, if you answered yes go on to question 12

12. Was Katherine Jackson dependent on Michael Jackson for the necessities of her life?

Yes / No

If you answered no, you must not award any damages for losses suffered by Katherine Jackson. you may still award damages to the remaining plaintiffs. If you said yes go on to question 13.

13. What do you find to be the total amount of damages , if any, suffered by plaintiffs?

a. economic damages : financial support, losses of gifts or benefits, and household services Michael Jackson would have contributed/provided to the plaintiffs during the remaining years of his life or their lives, whichever shorter, calculated to net present value _________________

b. non economic damages : the loss of Michael Jackson's love, companionship, comfort, care, assistance, protection, affection, society, and moral support and Michael Jackson's training and guidance during the remaining years of his life or their lives, whichever shorter, calculated to net present value _________________

If you answered $0 stop, otherwise go to question 14.

If you reached to this section you have determined one or more of the defendants is responsible for Michael Jackson's death. In this section you will determine whether any other persons are responsible for Michael Jackson's death and to what extent. Do not reduce the amount of damages you awarded in question 13 to account for any percentage of fault you award to other parties. Any needed reductions will be done by the court

14. Was Michael Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing his death?

Yes / No

Please go on question 15.

15. Was Katherine Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?

Yes / No

Please go on question 16.

16. Please identify the percentage of the total negligence and fault for Michael Jackson's death was due to conduct of Michael Jackson, Katherine Jackson and each defendant you answered yes in question 11. The percentages must add to 100%.

Michael Jackson ____%
Katherine Jackson____%
AEG Live ________%
AEG Live Productions____%
Gongaware _______%
Phillips _________%


---------------------------------

Will update this post if /when we get information about the finalized verdict form.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
bouee said:
The term "factor" is in the Jackson's verdict form. Since the judge rejected a lot of the initial claim, maybe it was in their initial claim (I don't remember), but it's not there anymore :
It says "AEG's negligence was a substantial factor" which is different IMO than "being responsible for his death"
Click to expand...

Maybe we do dissect more than necessary, and that is what I am accusing MYSELF of doing with the term factor. But the "a" factor seemed to minimize the AEG accusation. "Substantial" IS more reflective.
 
Tygger said:
Great testimony today from Dr. Matheson.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm the only one who is disturbed with the lack of freedom choice given to Michael in his version

Bina: In general a 50 year old man is competent to chose his personal physician?
Dr. Matheson: Yes

so a 50 year old man can choose his physician

Bina: If MJ said I want to bring my long term doctor on board, your opinion is that AEG should have said No you cannot?
Dr. Matheson: Yes

but Michael could not..

Dr. Matheson: Phillips has the right to say I'm concerned with your health, you can't come back to rehearsal until you're checked out. "We want you to see a doctor before you come back," Dr. Matheson said Phillips could have told. If Jackson denied it, they should have had a discussion about it, Dr. Matheson opined. Dr. Matheson said he wasn't suggesting Phillips forced MJ to go to their doctor, but they could've taken him to ER for another set of eyes.

You cannot force medical treatment on an adult in US, it's against constitutional rights. So they could not taken Michael to ER if he was unwilling. What Dr. Matheson is suggesting that Phillips threaten Michael and say "unless you get checked out by other doctors you can't come back" - which is actually forcing him to see a doctor and threaten him with cancelling the tour if he doesn't.

and I thought Jackson side had an issue with the control AEG had over MJ's healthcare but now they are saying that AEG should have had more control over his healthcare?

and

Dr. Matheson: Should structure deal so termination and cancellation are not incorporated in deal

how can you hire a tour doctor without incorporating tour termination and cancellation into the contract? do you offer them a job for 2 years guaranteed, regardless of tour happening or being cancelled at any point? Who does that, realistically?
 
So AEG were controlling Michael which the Jacksons like to say when it suites them. But AEG should have controlled Michael something new they came up with when it suites them
 
a little tidbit

I was looking to motions about Dileo's emails and there's a statement signed by Dileo in those motions as well as other emails.

According to that not only AEG gave Michael $3 Million to settle MJ's lawsuit with Bahrain Prince but their lawyers were also involved in the AllGood lawsuit against Michael and Dileo and they also paid lawyer fees for Michael in Raymone Bain lawsuit.

So Phillips's testimony about managing Michael's affairs / lawsuits seems to be true. AEG was involved -one way or another - in 3 lawsuits which could have an effect on TII concerts.
 
ivy said:
I guess I'm the only one who is disturbed with the lack of freedom choice given to Michael in his version

Bina: In general a 50 year old man is competent to chose his personal physician?
Dr. Matheson: Yes

so a 50 year old man can choose his physician

Bina: If MJ said I want to bring my long term doctor on board, your opinion is that AEG should have said No you cannot?
Dr. Matheson: Yes

but Michael could not..

Dr. Matheson: Phillips has the right to say I'm concerned with your health, you can't come back to rehearsal until you're checked out. "We want you to see a doctor before you come back," Dr. Matheson said Phillips could have told. If Jackson denied it, they should have had a discussion about it, Dr. Matheson opined. Dr. Matheson said he wasn't suggesting Phillips forced MJ to go to their doctor, but they could've taken him to ER for another set of eyes.

You cannot force medical treatment on an adult in US, it's against constitutional rights. So they could not taken Michael to ER if he was unwilling. What Dr. Matheson is suggesting that Phillips threaten Michael and say "unless you get checked out by other doctors you can't come back" - which is actually forcing him to see a doctor and threaten him with cancelling the tour if he doesn't.

and I thought Jackson side had an issue with the control AEG had over MJ's healthcare but now they are saying that AEG should have had more control over his healthcare?

and

Dr. Matheson: Should structure deal so termination and cancellation are not incorporated in deal

how can you hire a tour doctor without incorporating tour termination and cancellation into the contract? do you offer them a job for 2 years guaranteed, regardless of tour happening or being cancelled at any point? Who does that, realistically?
Click to expand...

generally speaking I agree with you, and not with this expert, but I see 2 main differences with a general situation :

1- AEG was involved with Murray (AEG-Murray contract- meetings, etc..)

2- When Michael's health was obvioulsy deteriorating under Murray's care, ie the doctor AEG got involved with, it does seem reasonable to me to say that Phillips should/could have imposed another doctor. He pressured Michael to rehearse , it was also possible for him to pressure for another doctor's opinion. Whether Michael would have agreed to it or not is not really the issue here, at least he would have tried.

EDIIT : and as the contract with Murray was not signed, he could even have pulled out, saying " Ok, this is weird, I don't want anything to do with it", and put a stop to the AEG-Murray contract.
 
bouee said:
That's interesting.

I remember seeing an interview with Frank DiLeo, where he said he tried to dissuade Michael about hiring Murray. Didn't Phillips say that too ?

Frank is not AEG, he was Michael's manager.

But that doesn't change the fact that the decsion to do an independant contractor contract to Murray came from AEG, or they agreed to it. They still could have made another advance instead of paying him. They were giving the money anyway.
Click to expand...

Yes, in hindsight they should have given additional money. But back then it seems Phillips was not willing to give another million in advance when MJ's manager asked regarding Klein's bills.

Justthefacts said:
So AEG were controlling Michael which the Jacksons like to say when it suites them. But AEG should have controlled Michael something new they came up with when it suites them
Click to expand...

This expert definitely was trying too hard at times contradicting himself. That's why he's getting paid I guess
 
bouee said:
generally speaking I agree with you, and not with this expert, but I see 2 main differences with a general situation :

1- AEG was involved with Murray (AEG-Murray contract- meetings, etc..)

2- When Michael's health was obvioulsy deteriorating under Murray's care, ie the doctor AEG got involved with, it does seem reasonable to me to say that Phillips should/could have imposed another doctor. He pressured Michael to rehearse , it was also possible for him to pressure for another doctor's opinion. Whether Michael would have agreed to it or not is not really the issue here, at least he would have tried.

EDIIT : and as the contract with Murray was not signed, he could even have pulled out, saying " Ok, this is weird, I don't want anything to do with it", and put a stop to the AEG-Murray contract.
Click to expand...

But he's saying MJ should not have been allowed to bring his own doctor in the first place.....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top