Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Passy001, no worries.

Dr. Earley is the first witness to make a connection to Michael being responsible for his own passing due to secrecy and exerting control and power over doctors in his life. This witness may not help the defense with comments like the below and they should use caution before calling this witness to the stand.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 6h
Dr Earley: Being around physicians triggered drug craving inadvertently and power was inverted. MJ was in the power seat cause of his status
 
See, this does not prove that AEG knew about MJ having sleeping issues. Not remembering something took place is not an admission of a knowledge of it. Plus Payne and Fayes' testimonies do in no way indicate that AEG knew about MJ having insomnia.

The Jacksons need to prove that AEG executives were fully aware of MJ suffering from insomnia. They did manage to establish however that MJ had real problems. but that is not what they are claiming in the lawsuit. is it?

so they still have 2 weeks or so they say to establish that.

by the way, nobody is accusing you of fabrication or gaining anything from it.

I have already answered this yesterday . Phillips DID say sleep issues were mentionned in at least on of the meetings, after giving 3 different versions. Read his testimony.

And NO the jacksons don't need to prove that, they need to prove AEG knowingly hired a crappy doctor.
 
I have already answered this yesterday . Phillips DID say sleep issues were mentionned in at least on of the meetings, after giving 3 different versions. Read his testimony.

And NO the jacksons don't need to prove that, they need to prove AEG knowingly hired a crappy doctor.


And that MJ wanting him didn't matter, because what he wanted should have been irrelevant. After all, he was this pathetic drug addict, who shouldn't be allowed to make his own choices, even when it comes to his personal physician.
 
Dang shame that Prince has to take the stand, in order to help Grandma get money for her "cubs." Very similar to her request that Michael "help" his brothers by touring with them. DANG SHAME!

Anyway, the ONLY PEOPLE who are winning, thus far, are the PAID Expert Witnesses and the respective law firms of Mr. Panish and Mr. Putnam by way of their billable hours.

In my opinion, the expert witnesses I have heard from so far, are a waste of money and time, but mainly a waste of money. They are basically being paid to tell the jury how smart they are and that's why the jury should believe their OPINIONS and nobody else's opinion. Bunch of overpaid blowhards, in my opinion. Not all expert witnesses, of course, just the few I have seen in this case so far.

Oh and let me also add, in my opinion, Mr. Panish's case is a HOT MESS, all over the place. Maybe he's hoping Prince will pull the whole thing together for him. I'm surprised we haven't heard that "Prince Jackson Will Be Providing The SMOKING GUN When He Testifies." Let's see if Alan Duke tries to add those words to his next article.
 
Tygger;3853386 said:
Cascio wrote: “Now, on tour, and again in deep physical pain, Michael turned back to those drugs. Maybe he was simply following
doctors’ orders: his adrenaline was so high after each show that it was the only way he could sleep. For all I really know, the treatments may have been his idea. However it came about, over time Michael began to rely on Demerol to wind down after the shows, and most likely to escape from the overwhelming stress, pressure, and responsibilities of his extraordinary life…How impossible it must have been to dial down from the hyper mode of the show to the complete calm of sleep….him. The doctor came, and then Michael went right to bed. I understood that he was taking medicine to help him go to sleep. I knew nothing about prescription pain medicine….

“…an anesthesiologist started showing up two or three times a week, some weeks, to help Michael sleep. I paid the man in cash, because all of Michael’s medical issues had to be kept from the public and their cost off the books. The doctor was perfectly straightforward with me. “What I do,” he said, “is put Michael to sleep for a couple of hours. Then I ease him out of sleep.” It was the same treatment I had witnessed after Michael’s accident in Munich. The doctor would set up equipment and an IV in Michael’s room, and would stay with him, the door closed, for about four hours. He said that the treatment was risky, but he assured me that he knew what he was doing…”

“On those nights, he couldn’t sleep unless this dangerous drug— the drug that would eventually kill him— was administered. For a long time I thought it was okay and normal. I didn’t think he had a drug problem. Over the years, I had grown accustomed to seeing doctors coming and going, particularly during tours, when Michael was under great stress and needed help falling asleep. I thought he was simply someone who had serious medical problems and used drugs to treat them.”

Oh My! I didn't read this book and had no idea that Frank Cascio discussed any of this in his book.

Is he on anybody's witness list, i.e. Mr. Panish, Mr. Putnam or both - anybody know?

Also, which tour is Mr. Cascio talking about - 90s into early 2000s? Now I'm all confused, is he maybe talking about Dr. Ratner, wasn't Dr. Ratner an anesthesiologist, who "supposedly travelled with Michael at some point?
 
Tygger;3853382 said:
Serendipity the jury is most likely asking the same questions. In their effort to control Michael and/or his spending (if you believe the interpretation of the “control” email four years after it was written), AEG decided it was better for them to allegedly hire the doctor instead of just advancing the money for the salary like they did with Chase. The doctor’s contract was never seen by anyone in Michael’s camp, including his lawyers, because Michael did not hire him. There was no need to involve Michael or his lawyers as AEG was doing the alleged hiring. The only thing Michael did was chose the doctor and suggest his salary per month. AEG did everything else.

If they had advanced the money, AEG would not have even known what salary the doctor received per month. They would have given Michael $X and Michael would distribute or spend it as he and his handlers saw fit. This is why Chase did not get paid routinely; the advance monies were spent and she was paid through an advance while the doctor was to be paid through production costs.

But they DID advance him money, didn't they? I remember it was said they gave him $5 million advance - with $3 million for the Bahrain lawsuit. Now the question is - why didn't MJ pay Murray from that advance? Why was his assistant calling Gongaware about it at all? Yes I'm sure the jury will be asking all those question, but I don't think we'll ever learn the answer.

IMO what happened was MJ just left others to deal with this hiring/firing process and since AEG already adviced him it would be better to get a London doctor and MJ insisted to them he wants Murray, he simply let them deal with that and this is why MAW was calling Gongaware with the salary offer. BUT neither MJ nor Gongaware are lawyers and they probably didn't realize this was not the best decision, this is why I'm putting the blame on AEG's lawyers - when they were informed about drafting Murray's contract, they should've said "Go call MJ's lawyer for this (whoever that may be)".

It was such a messy situation with MJ's staff and finances. It makes me wonder - would AEG have ever gotten involved if MJ's assistant didn't called them about it? My guess is they probably wouldn't have.
 
And that MJ wanting him didn't matter, because what he wanted should have been irrelevant. After all, he was this pathetic drug addict, who shouldn't be allowed to make his own choices, even when it comes to his personal physician.

I think if the jury decides murary was hired , they will aslo have to decide WHO hired him. IMO, AEG, on Michael's behalf, or 50/50



But they DID advance him money, didn't they? I
remember it was said they gave him $5 million advance - with $3 million for the Bahrain lawsuit. Now the question is - why didn't MJ pay Murray from that advance? Why was his assistant calling Gongaware about it at all? Yes I'm sure the jury will be asking all those question, but I don't think we'll ever learn the answer.

IMO what happened was MJ just left others to deal with this hiring/firing process and since AEG already adviced him it would be better to get a London doctor and MJ insisted to them he wants Murray, he simply let them deal with that and this is why MAW was calling Gongaware with the salary offer. BUT neither MJ nor Gongaware are lawyers and they probably didn't realize this was not the best decision, this is why I'm putting the blame on AEG's lawyers - when they were informed about drafting Murray's contract, they should've said "Go call MJ's lawyer for this (whoever that may be)".

It was such a messy situation with MJ's staff and finances. It makes me wonder - would AEG have ever gotten involved if MJ's assistant didn't called them about it? My guess is they probably wouldn't have.

That's THE 40 billion dollars question.

Kai Chase said she was paid by AEG, so that part of the testimony is maybe the key to the answer . I assume she was paid out of Michael's advances and had no contract with AEG. That would mean AEG did not pay the 5 millions directly to Michael, but used the money to pay for his rent, personal staff, etc.. (hence the remark Phillips supposedly made to Murray that he was paying for the toilet paper, the kids' posicles, etc..)

It was AEG's decision to do it like that with Murray, I think you're right when you say their lawyers are to blame. Until we hear otherwise, I'll stick to my opinion that was just a mistake ... but that could be a costly one.
Maybe Kathy Jorrie will clear that up, since it looks like she was the one who made the decision. Trell already said it was a mistake.

But including Murray in meetings and (potentially) pressuring him is another mistake, IMO.
 
Big Apple2, I read Cascio's book and I found many passages to be false. In those passages, I believe he was referring to the History tour but, I do not remember (or care). Maybe someone who enjoyed the book (I did not) can speak more to those passages. Both Cascio and Ratner are on the defense's witness list.

Serendipity, I gave you a logical answer. Unfortunately, that is not the answer some may want to hear because it means AEG was culpable. AEG advanced monies to Michael and the doctor was NOT scheduled to be paid through any advance. He was to be paid through production costs because he was allegedly hired by AEG. Michael did not leave business issues for AEG to deal with. AEG picked up Michael's business issues so he could be more available to do the TII tour. Michael's assistant did not initiate the hiring process for the doctor and AEG; AEG did that and everyone, including AEG lawyers complied.

Gerryevans, Michael had every right to have the doctor if that's the doctor he wanted. The problem was how the doctor was paid. AEG inserted themselves into the doctor-patient relationship. They should have only advanced money to Michael for the doctor's payments. Instead they allegedly hired the doctor which made the doctor beholden to them. That is a conflict of interest and proved to be fatal.
 
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Michael Jackson seemed to spend more time in lawsuits during the last 9 year's of his life, than anything else.

AEG Live was aware of this, as Tom Barrack spoke about it and Tom Barrack stated that AEG Live was doing a good job of keeping Michael Jackson focused.

That's why Randy Phillips was concerned about advancing anymore money the last weekend of Michael Jackson's life, because some of the lawsuits that Michael Jackson had been involved with, was taking money and not earning it, including the lawsuit involving the Prince of Bahrain. Randy Phillips was concerned that a red flag that Michael Jackson might do this was Michael Jackson missing rehearsals. That Michael Jackson might walk and not do any of the Shows at the 02 Arena in London.

Michael Jackson did a good job of returning back to rehearsals on June 23 and June 24, 2009. It looked as if that problem of Michael Jackson walking out and not fulfilling his obligations to do the Shows at the 02 Arena in London, were calmed. That Michael Jackson really did want to fulfill his responsibility to both his Concert Promoter's and his fan's. He would not let them down. So why did Conrad Murray get so cocky and not watch Michael Jackson sedated underneath Propofol? Will these paid Expert's let us know?
 
Big Apple2, I read Cascio's book and I found many passages to be false. In those passages, I believe he was referring to the History tour but, I do not remember (or care). Maybe someone who enjoyed the book (I did not) can speak more to those passages. Both Cascio and Ratner are on the defense's witness list.

Serendipity, I gave you a logical answer. Unfortunately, that is not the answer some may want to hear because it means AEG was culpable. AEG advanced monies to Michael and the doctor was NOT scheduled to be paid through any advance. He was to be paid through production costs because he was allegedly hired by AEG. Michael did not leave business issues for AEG to deal with. AEG picked up Michael's business issues so he could be more available to do the TII tour. Michael's assistant did not initiate the hiring process for the doctor and AEG; AEG did that and everyone, including AEG lawyers complied.

Gerryevans, Michael had every right to have the doctor if that's the doctor he wanted. The problem was how the doctor was paid. AEG inserted themselves into the doctor-patient relationship. They should have only advanced money to Michael for the doctor's payments. Instead they allegedly hired the doctor which made the doctor beholden to them. That is a conflict of interest and proved to be fatal.

And the production costs were going to be returned by MJ (per contract) so he he would be able to own 100% of TII. It was his choice. IMO very smart one. It was exactly like the bank loan.
 
And the production costs were going to be returned by MJ (per contract) so he he would be able to own 100% of TII. It was his choice. IMO very smart one. It was exactly like the bank loan.

Michael would owe 95% of production costs.

An advance is likened to an interest-free bank loan as Michael would receive $X to spend as he wished without given AEG a breakdown of how the monies were spent.

If the doctor was to be paid by an advance, the discussion of what he was to be paid ($150K vs. $5M) would occur between the doctor and Michael and/or Michael's lawyers, NOT AEG's Gongaware and AEG's lawyers.
 
from CNN

Jackson lawyers informed AEG Live attorneys Monday that Prince will be the next witness after a doctor who is an expert in medical conflicts of interest completes his testimony Tuesday. That would likely put Prince on the stand a day after the fourth anniversary of his father's death.

and

Prince will be the only one of Jackson's three children who will appear in court, although the video of Paris' deposition over two days in March will be seen at some point during the AEG Live defense presentation. The company compelled her testimony, calling her a key witness to her father's dealings with Murray and to her own relationship with her father. Jackson lawyers informed the court last week that Paris, 15, would not be available to testify in person because she is hospitalized for psychiatric treatment after a suicide attempt earlier this month.

Isn`t this odd. In a vid a few days ago Duke said Paris and Prince will say some powerful claims and made it in depostions against AEG and now Duke says only? AEG will use Paris deposition and AEG calls her key-witness?
 
"AEG says it agreed to pay Murray as part of a packaged deal. It said AEG would bankroll the $40 million production, including Murray's salary, but with tour profits, Jackson would pay back AEG."

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/entertainment&id=9151097

That's why AEG Live agreed to certain people who had worked with Michael Jackson in the past, Kenny Ortega, Karen Faye, and Conrad Murray.

Michael was loaned the money for his Shows and then pay the money back. That way Michael Jackson could hire who he wanted, including Conrad Murray!
 
I had a look at kai Chase's testimony on another website :

As we already knew, she worked from the end of march to beginning of may, then from june 2nd.

She did not get paid 2 weeks in april (the last 2 weeks) and was not paid at all in june.

She asked MAW what the change in management was in may, but was not allowed to say the answer (objection by AEG, hearsay, sustained)

It seems like they were originally supposed to go to London earlier (that's what she thought, it was rather vague), that's what she says when she talks about when was let go in early may. It happened when they were negociating her salary for England, she tried to say it could be renogociated, to no avail, she was let go the day after she tried to renegociate. She was fired by MAW, when she was arriving at Carolwood for work, in the driveway, and could not say goodbye to anyone. (personal note : it sounds like- though of course that was not said- MAW transmitted her offer to renegociate her salary, but the person , I guess Frank, refused to renegociate the amount. It seems that Kai Chase at that point, when she offered to renegociate, did not give a precise amount)

She came back knowing that AEG would pay her salary in England (that was how the question was asked, she answered yes to the question).

MAW's credit card was declined 2 or 3 times in june (not in april)

About the broken vase meeting : She heard DiLeo say "I don't care if you have to..." and didn't finish because of an objection by AEG. The jury heard that. We don't know who Frank was talking to. (She says Phillips, Gongaware, DiLeo, Murray and Michael were at that meeting. She's sure of that, and knew them from previous production meetings at Carolwood)
She said voices were raised, and people were talking over each other.

About Murray's presence in april :

She saw him 2 to 3 times a week in april, sometimes Murray came for social visits, but she did see oxygen tanks in april, though much less frequently than in june. She would not prepare meals for Murray in april, did most of the time in june.

---------

So that clears up the question of the cash advance.
 
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That's THE 40 billion dollars question.

Kai Chase said she was paid by AEG, so that part of the testimony is maybe the key to the answer . I assume she was paid out of Michael's advances and had no contract with AEG. That would mean AEG did not pay the 5 millions directly to Michael, but used the money to pay for his rent, personal staff, etc.. (hence the remark Phillips supposedly made to Murray that he was paying for the toilet paper, the kids' posicles, etc..)

It was AEG's decision to do it like that with Murray, I think you're right when you say their lawyers are to blame. Until we hear otherwise, I'll stick to my opinion that was just a mistake ... but that could be a costly one.
Maybe Kathy Jorrie will clear that up, since it looks like she was the one who made the decision. Trell already said it was a mistake.

But including Murray in meetings and (potentially) pressuring him is another mistake, IMO.

Thanks bouee. You're right Kathy Jorrie may clear this up a bit more. I don't think it's very clear if they actually gave MJ directly that advance or not. Yep their lawyers messed this one up.

Isn`t this odd. In a vid a few days ago Duke said Paris and Prince will say some powerful claims and made it in depostions against AEG and now Duke says only? AEG will use Paris deposition and AEG calls her key-witness?

I think Duke is trying to make AEG look bad for using Paris' deposition. However the Jacksons will be discrediting Paris and they have started to do it and keep calling her cofused and how she is "under psychiatric care", so IMO they are trying to make her deposition not credible and that's why they don't want to use it anymore. That's how I see it anyway.
 
AEG attorneys assert that Murray had served Jackson and his family since 2006 and that Jackson had requested that Murray work as his personal physician on the tour.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/entertainment&id=9151097

Michael Jackson wanted certain people working for him on his upcoming Shows at the 02 Arena in London.

We all know the reason why Michael Jackson requested Conrad Murray, because Conrad Murray would administer Propofol while Michael Jackson slept during the night and wake up refreshed and ready for another day's work!
 
Thanks bouee. You're right Kathy Jorrie may clear this up a bit more. I don't think it's very clear if they actually gave MJ directly that advance or not. Yep their lawyers messed this one up.

I think it's clearer with Kai Chase's testimony : she would have been paid by AEG in London, and they asked her to fill out papers for her visa in England. Before that, when they were still in LA, she was not paid by AEG, so they must have given the money (advances) to Michael. She filed a creditor's claim with the Estate, when others were paid by AEG after Michael died (like Karen for example)

But they still could have made another advance to Michael for Murray, instead of "hiring him" or offering him an AEG-Murray contract.
 
But they DID advance him money, didn't they? I remember it was said they gave him $5 million advance - with $3 million for the Bahrain lawsuit. Now the question is - why didn't MJ pay Murray from that advance? Why was his assistant calling Gongaware about it at all? Yes I'm sure the jury will be asking all those question, but I don't think we'll ever learn the answer.

I remember reading in the sullivan book when he interviewed thome that mj was accumulating a las vegas house fund as that was his priority to buy a property for himself and the children. Thome gave in $5m i think after mj's death from this fund, so i'm not sure if any of that came from monies advanced to him by aeg. Thome mentioned that as soon as mj got funds from aeg that mrs j immediately came forward to ask for a $600K motor home and that although mj was wanting to save up for his new home, he agreed to her request.

If the doctor was to be paid by an advance, the discussion of what he was to be paid ($150K vs. $5M) would occur between the doctor and Michael and/or Michael's lawyers, NOT AEG's Gongaware and AEG's lawyers.

The business relationship of mj/aeg with such in-built financial dependence was so inappropriate imo. What was mj's business manager, kane, doing discussing with phillips the details of klein's doctor bills - this was mj's confidential info. It's one thing to discuss the payment of a bill, another to discuss the medical procedures mj was having at his doctors. I don't see how aeg can portray themselves as being some kind of 'bank loan', or 'mastercard' service.
 
The business relationship of mj/aeg with such in-built financial dependence was so inappropriate imo. What was mj's business manager, kane, doing discussing with phillips the details of klein's doctor bills - this was mj's confidential info. It's one thing to discuss the payment of a bill, another to discuss the medical procedures mj was having at his doctors. I don't see how aeg can portray themselves as being some kind of 'bank loan', or 'mastercard' service.

And I'm about 80% certain they pressured Murray directly, or indirectly :

about the "intervention meeting, I think it was on june 18th
- Gongaware doesn't remember it
- I'm not sure Phillips talked about it (would have to check his testimony in detail, the meetings are confusing, so it could be the way it was reported)
- Ortega says in CM trial that there was a meeting prior to june 20th, where Michael was told to come to rehearsals or the shows could be cancelled/opening postponed, he mentionned it in his e mail 'now that we have brought the doctor into the fold, played tough love, the now or never card, artist may not be able to rise to the ooccasion".
-Kai Chase mentionned the same meeting, with a broken vase, frank saying "I don't care if you have to..", Michael frightened and Murray storming into the kitchen saying "I can't take this shit, i can't handle this"
-Ortega says in CM trial that Murray was doing Michael's schedule prior to june 20th, talked about it with him at the forum

June 20th meeting
-Ortega implies in CM trial that Michael may have lied, or not told everything, to Murray about what happened on june 19th
- whether or not Phillips told Murray that Michael was in a difficult financial situation & needed to do the shows remains a mystery, BUT : his testimony differs from Ortega's (Ko said he was the first to leave, stayed 10mn at the meeting, Phillips said everyone left together). Phillips wrote an email saying the same thing to Ortega, on the same day. ("millions of lawsuits i crisis manage everyday, etc..)

-Timm Wooley writes to the insurance broker that "Murray is reponsible for Michael's rehearsals attendance, something related to kenny not being demanding enough". And why would the insurance broker want to know about that ?
 
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Tygger;3853386 said:
I'm surprised this was not posted here. Friedman agrees with many here about Dr. Czeisler.

So much was made last week of Michael Jackson not sleeping for the last 60 days of his life. First of all, it was an overstatement. He may not have been sleeping at night, but he slept during the day. You may recall an interview I did with a long time friend of Michael’s who ran into him at Dr. Arnold Klein’s office one afternoon in May 2009. It was clear he was sleeping there. He also looked and felt great, very refreshed. http://www.showbiz411.com/2009/07/0...ackson-joanne-horowitz-studio-54-arnold-klein

More to the point: one look at Frank Cascio’s excellent and revealing book, “My Friend Michael,” describes Jackson’s sleep problems, his use of Demerol and Propofol early on. Cascio was with him for a good part of the 90s into the early 2000s. I think, frankly, it undermines the testimony from last week. Cascio traveled with Jackson extensively, and knew all of his peccadilloes. His book lays out Jackson’s life in minute detail. I wonder if all the lawyers in the current case have read it.

Cascio wrote: “Now, on tour, and again in deep physical pain, Michael turned back to those drugs. Maybe he was simply following
doctors’ orders: his adrenaline was so high after each show that it was the only way he could sleep. For all I really know, the treatments may have been his idea. However it came about, over time Michael began to rely on Demerol to wind down after the shows, and most likely to escape from the overwhelming stress, pressure, and responsibilities of his extraordinary life…How impossible it must have been to dial down from the hyper mode of the show to the complete calm of sleep….him. The doctor came, and then Michael went right to bed. I understood that he was taking medicine to help him go to sleep. I knew nothing about prescription pain medicine….

“…an anesthesiologist started showing up two or three times a week, some weeks, to help Michael sleep. I paid the man in cash, because all of Michael’s medical issues had to be kept from the public and their cost off the books. The doctor was perfectly straightforward with me. “What I do,” he said, “is put Michael to sleep for a couple of hours. Then I ease him out of sleep.” It was the same treatment I had witnessed after Michael’s accident in Munich. The doctor would set up equipment and an IV in Michael’s room, and would stay with him, the door closed, for about four hours. He said that the treatment was risky, but he assured me that he knew what he was doing…”

“On those nights, he couldn’t sleep unless this dangerous drug— the drug that would eventually kill him— was administered. For a long time I thought it was okay and normal. I didn’t think he had a drug problem. Over the years, I had grown accustomed to seeing doctors coming and going, particularly during tours, when Michael was under great stress and needed help falling asleep. I thought he was simply someone who had serious medical problems and used drugs to treat them.”

And this is just a little bit of it. The idea that AEG’s concert rehearsals caused Michael to lose sleep– and thereby be vulnerable to dying– doesn’t ring true. Not when you hear that Jackson was living like this for two decades.
http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/06/2...snt-news-he-was-using-drugs-for-it-in-the-90s

Why on earth are people posting articles from Friedman? The things he has said about Michael in the past are utterly sick.
 
The business relationship of mj/aeg with such in-built financial dependence was so inappropriate imo. What was mj's business manager, kane, doing discussing with phillips the details of klein's doctor bills - this was mj's confidential info. It's one thing to discuss the payment of a bill, another to discuss the medical procedures mj was having at his doctors. I don't see how aeg can portray themselves as being some kind of 'bank loan', or 'mastercard' service.

Agreed. It is no secret many of Michael's employees were not loyal to him.

-Timm Wooley writes to the insurance broker that "Murray is reponsible for Michael's rehearsals attendance, something related to kenny not being demanding enough". And why would the insurance broker want to know about that ?

The insurance company had a vested interest in Michael performing as well. If he cancelled or did not appear, they would have to payout the $17.5M policy.

Why on earth are people posting articles from Friedman? The things he has said about Michael in the past are utterly sick.

Because there are posters who agreed with Friedman regarding Dr. Czeisler.
 
And I'm about 80% certain they pressured Murray directly, or indirectly :
You mean to get mj to attend rehearsals, I'm sure they would have done. It's interesting to read the emails about the 19th june crisis. After reading that really heartrending email from orgeta, randy is concerned, but his concern seems to be as much about ortega as mj - 'this guy is starting to concern me'. He goes to great lengths to reassure ortega that murray is a top notch doc as he seems concerned that ortega might be tempted to pull mj out of tii as he doesn't think mj is ready for it - he just seems to want to keep a lid on it all.

- about the "intervention meeting, I think it was on june 18th

It looks like it was on the 16th acc to emails.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4 h
Panish showed an email dated 6/17/09 from Phillips to Dr. Tohme: Kenny Ortega, Gongaware, DiLeo, his doctor named Conrad from Vegas and I
Email cont'd: have an intervention with him to get him to focus and come to rehearsals yesterday.
Email cont'd: Getting him fully engaged is difficult and the most pressing matter as we are only 20 days out from the first show.


- Gongaware doesn't remember it
- I'm not sure Phillips talked about it (would have to check his testimony in detail, the meetings are confusing, so it could be the way it was reported)

Oh that's a surprise. The testimony about the meetings from gonga and phillips is just v evasive.

- Ortega says in CM trial that there was a meeting prior to june 20th, where Michael was told to come to rehearsals or the shows could be cancelled/opening postponed, he mentionned it in his e mail 'now that we have brought the doctor into the fold, played tough love, the now or never card, artist may not be able to rise to the ooccasion".

The phrase bugzee uses in his email on the 19th about 'we are beyond damage control' suggests there was a preceding period where there had been damage control. Pressure was clearly building throughout june on mj.
 
I think it's clearer with Kai Chase's testimony : she would have been paid by AEG in London, and they asked her to fill out papers for her visa in England. Before that, when they were still in LA, she was not paid by AEG, so they must have given the money (advances) to Michael. She filed a creditor's claim with the Estate, when others were paid by AEG after Michael died (like Karen for example)

But they still could have made another advance to Michael for Murray, instead of "hiring him" or offering him an AEG-Murray contract.

Thanks. I think they probably did give him the advance. It's not clear why he didn't pay Murray or made the salary offer to him directly. I wonder if MAW will be testifying? He may clear some of those questions.

I remember reading in the sullivan book when he interviewed thome that mj was accumulating a las vegas house fund as that was his priority to buy a property for himself and the children. Thome gave in $5m i think after mj's death from this fund, so i'm not sure if any of that came from monies advanced to him by aeg. Thome mentioned that as soon as mj got funds from aeg that mrs j immediately came forward to ask for a $600K motor home and that although mj was wanting to save up for his new home, he agreed to her request.

I think the money he gave Thome for a house were probably his own money. Never heard this story about Katherine before. What was that about, a motor home? But knowing how she operates, wouldn't surprise me if it wes true. It may explain why he couldn't pay Murray.
 
I have already answered this yesterday . Phillips DID say sleep issues were mentionned in at least on of the meetings, after giving 3 different versions. Read his testimony.

And NO the jacksons don't need to prove that, they need to prove AEG knowingly hired a crappy doctor.

I don't think they knew MJ was having insomnia or worse was being pumped with drugs. and the fact that MJ was consulting otrher doctors was just adding to the confusion. They had no idea. Even so, they have not proven that AEG hired Murray. That is one grey area that has not been established.
 
Michael Jackson's legacy rocked, not wrecked, by trial
Edna Gundersen, USA TODAY 9:16 a.m. EDT June 25, 2013
A wrongful-death suit revives image problems, but the late icon's artistic stature is unassailable, experts say.


(Photo: Kevin Mazur, Getty Images, for AEG)
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Pop superstar died June 25, 2009, after a fatal dose of propofol
Estimates of his posthumous net worth range from $600 million to $1 billion
He's still a huge influence on emerging artists in R&B and pop
Michael Jackson died four years ago June 25, leaving behind a remarkable body of work, a mountain of debt, a squabbling family and a scandal-plagued specter.

He has yet to rest in peace.

Since 2009, the singer's estate has grown, along with appreciation for his artistry, but his private life has been undergoing renewed scrutiny in the ongoing wrongful-death suit pitting his mother against AEG Live.

For years, Jackson's character has been battered but not destroyed by allegations of child molestation, substance abuse, cosmetic procedures and abnormal behavior. As testimony revisits the pop superstar's frailties and drug use in detail, will the freshly exhumed indignities damage Jackson's legacy?

Experts are divided. Millions are at stake in the civil case. So is Jackson's reputation, and some question the wisdom of a family willing to sully it for financial gain.

"Jackson's famously dysfunctional family surely isn't doing him any favors with its trial," says George Varga, pop-music critic for U-T San Diego. "Alas, one could argue his family didn't do him many favors when he was alive, either. Now, as then, Jackson seems to be regarded more as a brand-cum-revenue stream than the deeply flawed person he was. The trial sadly underscores this."

Journalist Diane Dimond agrees, calling the suit "pure bad publicity."

"Michael Jackson worked hard his whole life to build a fabulous body of work and a wonderful legacy," says Dimond, whose book, Be Careful Who You Love: Inside the Michael Jackson Case, chronicles the molestation saga from the first 1993 allegation through the 2005 criminal trial. "In death, his family is doing all the wrong things to tear that down. You see now in the AEG trial that Jackson was a basket case of his own making. The trial very well could be the last mark on the legacy sheet for him, and not in the positive column."

Katherine Jackson, 83, filed suit in 2010, alleging that promoters of Jackson's comeback tour hired cardiologist Conrad Murray and failed to supervise him. AEG says that Jackson independently enlisted Murray, his personal physician since 2006, to join him for 50 This Is It dates at London's O2 Arena. Murray is serving four years in prison, convicted of involuntary manslaughter for administering the fatal dose of propofol that left Jackson dead at 50.

The trial is "nothing but a money grab," Dimond says.

"When Katherine passes, her portion of the estate goes to Michael's children," she says. "Her sons get nothing. She's trying to amass a pile of money to leave her chronically underemployed sons. Doesn't she have enough money?

"I think of Michael's three children watching the trial dredge up all this ugliness and terrible memories. When I heard a paramedic say his body looked like an emaciated cancer patient, I thought, 'His children are reading this. It's on the Internet now.' "

The outpouring of love and sympathy following Jackson's death settled into "a seamless river of support" that the trial has poisoned, Dimond says.

The AEG trial, now in its ninth week, has revealed much about Jackson's psychological and physical state in the months, and even years, before his death:

• On the day of the news conference announcing This Is It, AEG CEO Randy Phillips found Jackson "locked in his room drunk and despondent … He's an emotionally paralyzed mess, filled with self-loathing and doubt."

• During the run-up to the London residency, his dermatologist, Arnold Klein, sent Jackson's business manager a $48,000 bill for injecting Jackson with Restalyne, Botox and unidentified drugs. Testimony showed that Jackson was injected with 6,500 milligrams of Demerol in the last three months of his life.

• Witnesses say Jackson couldn't sing, was considering using backing tracks to bolster his voice, needed a teleprompter to remember lyrics and didn't have the strength to dance.

• AEG executive Paul Gongaware dismissed Jackson's frailties as delay tactics, saying he's "lazy and constantly changes his mind to fit his immediate wants."

• Jackson was sent home from rehearsal because he was shivering and unable to eat. A production manager called him a basket case. Five days before his death, This Is It tour director Kenny Ortega said the singer showed signs of "paranoia, anxiety and obsessive-like behavior" and needed a psychiatric evaluation.

• A doctor, who believed Jackson had an opiate addiction, gave him a 24-hour morphine drip in Thailand during the 1993 Dangerous tour. He couldn't give Jackson an injection in his buttocks because of excessive scar tissue from previous injections.

• Trial exhibits include photos of pill containers, propofol bottles, oxygen tanks and an IV stand in his bedroom.

Courtroom mud may not be enough to dethrone the King of Pop, say some of his closest observers.

"It's rehashing what's already been rehashed," says Gail Mitchell, Billboard senior editor. "This is just confirmation of what we already know or what's been gossiped about. People don't care anymore. It might be burnout. I haven't seen any backlash. When I talk to emerging R&B and pop types about their influences, Michael's name invariably comes up."


Coco C, left, and Robin Hannibal of Quadron.(Photo: Sony Music)
A prime example is hot Danish electro-soul duo Quadron, which covered Thriller track Baby Be Mine and pays tribute to Jackson on new album Avalanche with the song Neverland, about an obsessed fan who impersonates the singer.

Revelations of Jackson's foibles haven't contaminated his artistic profile, says Quadron musician/producer Robin Hannibal, who sees improvement in the star's image since his death.

"And it will be more so, the longer time passes by," he says. "All the media trash and paparazzi stuff will have evaporated and feel less important, and there will be even more focus on his artistry.

"MJ has meant a lot to us in our music. He is always present in the back of our heads when we create, and we often ask ourselves, 'What would MJ do?' His work ethic, talent and pursuit for perfecting his art is a huge inspiration."

Jackson imprinted Quadron's sound in the same way he will continue to shape new generations of artists, Hannibal says.

"He was a perfectionist, but he also added a lot of emotion and honesty," he says. "He put himself on the line. … His belief in what he did is also extremely inspiring. He shaped the modern pop song, in regard to structure, arrangement and his use of harmonies and ad-libs. He was able to mix big ballads, guitar-driven songs and R&B into the same albums."

Has the public sequestered the King of Pop from his dirty laundry?

"As the global amnesia brought on by Jackson's death suggested, many have no problem embracing him and his often-transcendent music while ignoring his tragic and troubling life," Varga says. "Yes, his legacy may be further tarnished by the trial. But Jackson will likely go on to rival Elvis Presley as a superstar who becomes even more lucrative in death than in life."


On the eve of the fourth anniversary of Michael Jackson's death, Madame Tussauds unveils three new wax figures of the self-styled King of Pop. The figures were unveiled on the stage of London's Lyric theater.

"Four years after his death, Michael Jackson's earning power is incredibly strong," says Zack O'Malley Greenburg, a Forbes senior editor and author of the upcoming Michael Jackson, Inc. (Atria). "In fact, it's as high as — or higher than — that of any living musical act, based on the income totals we track here at Forbes. In light of that performance, it seems unlikely the trial will affect the King of Pop's ability to earn big from beyond the grave."

Estimates of his posthumous net worth range from $600 million to $1 billion. When he died, he was at least $400 million in debt. And his stardom was stained.

"He was in a really bad place with all the child molestation allegations," says Jermaine Hall, Vibe editor. "After he died, we almost immediately got back to celebrating his music. I do think people are able to separate the man from the music, despite all the stuff coming out now. You've been hearing it so long, you're almost desensitized. We're aware of his personal troubles. I don't think the trial will have a huge impact on his legacy."

The pop icon's stature can withstand a thrashing, says Jackson authority Joseph Vogel, author of 2011's Man in the Music: The Creative Life and Work of Michael Jackson.

"In most ways, the trial humanizes him," Vogel says. "Historically, so many great artists are tragic figures, from Jim Morrison to Marvin Gaye to Kurt Cobain. Michael's life was complicated, but we've reached the point where his art is what people really care about. The more distance we get, the more his legacy comes into focus. I mean, Michael Jackson not only revolutionized music, but short films, dance, fashion, performance. His influence is everywhere, from Bruno Mars to Lady Gaga to Kanye West."

The public is weary of sensational headlines, which won't prevent anyone from buying Off the Wall or Bad, he says.

"People already knew about Michael's anxieties and health issues, including his sleep problems," Vogel says. "Ten, 20, 100 years from now, people won't be going back to TMZ, but they will be listening to Billie Jean and Human Nature."

Granted, there's an "icky quality" to much of Jackson's story, says Robert Thompson, a professor of pop culture at Syracuse University. But his enormous talent and fame afforded him latitude denied to ordinary mortals in the rational world.

"This was a person you might not want to put up as a role model," he says. "But while he was alive, there was a notion that he was so rich and so famous at such a young age that it almost exiled him from humanity, and he ended up on Planet Michael."

Megastars dim. Just ask any Millennial about such yesteryear giants as actress Sarah Bernhardt, opera star Jenny Lind or crooner Rudy Vallée.

"For all their enormous penetration, they didn't make that transition over a couple of generations," Thompson says. "Michael Jackson is not going to be one of those. We are talking about a magnitude of cultural mythology that very few people share."

A few legal maneuvers in a Los Angeles courtroom are unlikely to threaten Jackson's towering stature.

"Where are we going to be when the smoke clears?" Thompson says. "There's a sense that Michael Jackson died for his sins. There was a cleansing to his story. OK, this wipes it all away.

"Everyone has about seven asterisks in their mind when it comes to the legend of Michael Jackson. But that legend is intact."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...n-legacy-four-years-after-death/2449131/?csp=
 
ignore her, it's not an article written by Dimond and has multiple other commentors.

Yeah, I know, but this statement
Michael Jackson worked hard his whole life to build a fabulous body of work and a wonderful legacy," says Dimond
is hypocrisy at its best. Of course it's a true statement but DD has made it her life's work to destroy the legacy she calls 'wonderful'.
 
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