Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[serendipity]

He never got it. No one at AEG sent the contracts to Michael's camp. I suppose they meant to show him the contract later, since he was supposed to sign it. But that's one of the Jackson's argument.

Yea, but I'm talking about that initial conversation where MAW tells Gongaware to offer Murray 150K. This convo should've been done with MJ's lawyer, why did they go to Gongaware with it? It seems like a confusing situation.

 

[LastTear]

Why did the Jacksons lawyer played this AEG expert deposition anyway? I thought that was weird. And didn't the Jacksons side talk a lot about demerol in their opening statement? I'm totally confused......
?

I believe they probably played that portion of his deposition as a prequel to the sleep specialist, they knew the sleep specialist would have to concede that MJ's symptoms could be caused by something else, and the addiction specialist had to do the same. I'm not entirely sure I have truly grasped the point to use either of them or much of the testimony we have heard, so I may be completely wrong.

 

[serendipity]

I believe they probably played that portion of his deposition as a prequel to the sleep specialist, they knew the sleep specialist would have to concede that MJ's symptoms could be caused by something else, and the addiction specialist had to do the same. I'm not entirely sure I have truly grasped the point to use either of them or much of the testimony we have heard, so I may be completely wrong.

So basically both experts said the symptoms they were testifying about could be caused by something else. I can't grasp the point either and I wonder if the jury can :lol:

 

[Smooth72]

Demerol makes you sleepy and out of it, so no way he could have taken it to rehearse, it would have shown as it showed when he came back from Klein's.

I don't think Klein falsified his records, they were not flattering to him as they were. Wasn't he reprimanded by the medical board ? i'm not sure if it was about that, though. he has sent his bill to Michael's lawyers before Michael died, the bill was almost the same as the one that he filed after Michael died, and the records were consitent with his invoice.

And Michael had no demerol or any other opioids in his home.


Michael was just trying to sleep, not to get high. He was trying to be in shape for the shows.

Really ok. You don't get high or feeling good of demerol eh? Then why the hell did he keep going and getting it? I disagree strongly. The problem with all this BS is lawyers spin all the shit and us fans try to justify everything to make it ok. If that's the case why is MJ dead? Oh I know cuz Murray ****ed up right. Give me a break. I love MJ but lets get real. I think we as fans need to change direction in defense of MJ to protect his legacy. All this denial of everything that comes up makes us look like fools. That why people call fans rabbids. It time to except the fact mike wasn't perfect and neither am I or you guys. So what do you say when people ask if it was ok for MJ to sleep in a bed with young boys that are not his? I know what u say hell know he shouldn't have said that. We need to change the way we react or we will constantly be making excuses for his actions. That will intern kill his legacy. Ok I have vented know shoot me!

 

[bouee]

Really ok. You don't get high or feeling good of demerol eh? Then why the hell did he keep going and getting it? I disagree strongly. The problem with all this BS is lawyers spin all the shit and us fans try to justify everything to make it ok. If that's the case why is MJ dead? Oh I know cuz Murray ****ed up right. Give me a break. I love MJ but lets get real. I think we as fans need to change direction in defense of MJ to protect his legacy. All this denial of everything that comes up makes us look like fools. That why people call fans rabbids. It time to except the fact mike wasn't perfect and neither am I or you guys. So what do you say when people ask if it was ok for MJ to sleep in a bed with young boys that are not his? I know what u say hell know he shouldn't have said that. We need to change the way we react or we will constantly be making excuses for his actions. That will intern kill his legacy. Ok I have vented know shoot me!

Even if what you say was true (only Klein can say who decided on demerol & why it was used), he still did not take enough in 09 to create an addiction.

Even if you think Klein gave more than what he stated in his records- which I don't believe, that must be easy to check for the DEA, comparing his stocks/what he bought/what he charged), he still did not go regularly enough to create an addiction.
look at the dates, he could spend almost 2 weeks without going there.

Murray didn't buy any opioids, there was none at Michael's home.

 

[Smooth72]

Even if what you say was true (only Klein can say who decided on demerol & why it was used), he still did not take enough in 09 to create an addiction.

Even if you think Klein gave more than what he stated in his records- which I don't believe, that must be easy to check for the DEA, comparing his stocks/what he bought/what he charged), he still did not go regularly enough to create an addiction.
look at the dates, he could spend almost 2 weeks without going there.

Murray didn't buy any opioids, there was none at Michael's home.

Good points for sure. I could fire back and refute your statements like any good lawyer but I respect your position. I guess I'm just more on the common sense side and believe MJ had a problem with drugs over the years period. Erratic behavior constant image changes. Like I said as a fan I think we need to except the fact MJ had some drug issues because more than likely that's how he dealt with all his stress. He had a lot on his plate. Worlds most popular person making a come back. Lot of pressure equalled the drug use. In the end caused his death.

 

[crillon]

Good points for sure. I could fire back and refute your statements like any good lawyer but I respect your position. I guess I'm just more on the common sense side and believe MJ had a problem with drugs over the years period. Erratic behavior constant image changes. Like I said as a fan I think we need to except the fact MJ had some drug issues because more than likely that's how he dealt with all his stress. He had a lot on his plate. Worlds most popular person making a come back. Lot of pressure equalled the drug use. In the end caused his death.

I've always felt that Michael's issues with drugs were situational and agree that stress was the trigger. Where I disagree is the conclusion that "in the end it caused his death," because I believe in the end a doctor, and all the doctors who enabled the drugs, caused his death.

Michael could not have dreamt up the use of propofol to help him sleep. A doctor did that (Klein, perhaps?) and it was a doctor who recklessly and negligently administered the propofol causing his death.

 

[mjchris]

3 videos from june 21:

[youtube]6z3My7B82WY[/youtube]

[youtube]U1Hz3uzww_4[/youtube]

[youtube]asPYC535lmE[/youtube]

 

[smoothlugar]

He never got it. No one at AEG sent the contracts to Michael's camp. I suppose they meant to show him the contract later, since he was supposed to sign it. But that's one of the Jackson's argument.

And a very important one, thanks for reminding.

 

[crillon]

I believe they probably played that portion of his deposition as a prequel to the sleep specialist, they knew the sleep specialist would have to concede that MJ's symptoms could be caused by something else, and the addiction specialist had to do the same. I'm not entirely sure I have truly grasped the point to use either of them or much of the testimony we have heard, so I may be completely wrong.

I agree with you--why these experts on addiction and insomnia are testifying is baffling. I just don't get it, either. The jury has to be confused, if what they're looking for is testimony directly related to the question of who hired Murray. I find it amusing how the forums are dissecting every word of their testimony as if it even matters. I hope the jury doesn't do the same thing thinking there's some nexus with the main issue.

 

[Smooth72]

I agree with you--why these experts on addiction and insomnia are testifying is baffling. I just don't get it, either. The jury has to be confused, if what they're looking for is testimony directly related to the question of who hired Murray. I find it amusing how the forums are dissecting every word of their testimony as if it even matters. I hope the jury doesn't do the same thing thinking there's some nexus with the main issue.

It's just the lawyers spinning stuff. Making confusion to try to sway decision. Your right exactly it has no purpose. I think the Jackson lawyers think the longer this goes the better. Trying to add the expects to avoid the real facts. They just don't have a lot of facts. I do think they will win so sort of settlement but I think it will be because they feel sorry for MJ and the kids. Common sense says AEG new better.

 

[troubleman84]

Am I reading things or are some people willing to believe Michael had a drug problem over a sleeping problem or...? This is just hypothetical here, not trying to accuse anyone of anything.

I think both sides are responsible for this confusion. How would anyone if once Putnam presents his case after July 8th that his case would be more simple than Panish's is? Isn't he also trying to make MJ out to be this "responsible drug addict"? :mellow:

I'm calling it: a mistrial.

 

[crillon]

It's just the lawyers spinning stuff. Making confusion to try to sway decision. Your right exactly it has no purpose. I think the Jackson lawyers think the longer this goes the better. Trying to add the expects to avoid the real facts. They just don't have a lot of facts. I do think they will win so sort of settlement but I think it will be because they feel sorry for MJ and the kids. Common sense says AEG new better.

I agree--thus far, they don't have any facts. But, the Jackson lawyers may be surprised when their tactic backfires--AEG might "simplify" it all for the jury with a concise defense. Spending so much time talking about drugs, insomnia, etc. may just lay the foundation for AEG to add on and put the blame on Michael. The sympathy for MJ & the kids may then drift away quickly.

 

[ivy]

from CNN

Jackson lawyers informed AEG Live attorneys Monday that Prince will be the next witness after a doctor who is an expert in medical conflicts of interest completes his testimony Tuesday. That would likely put Prince on the stand a day after the fourth anniversary of his father's death.

and

Prince will be the only one of Jackson's three children who will appear in court, although the video of Paris' deposition over two days in March will be seen at some point during the AEG Live defense presentation. The company compelled her testimony, calling her a key witness to her father's dealings with Murray and to her own relationship with her father. Jackson lawyers informed the court last week that Paris, 15, would not be available to testify in person because she is hospitalized for psychiatric treatment after a suicide attempt earlier this month.

 

[crillon]

^^^^Jackson lawyers informed AEG Live attorneys Monday that Prince will be the next witness after a doctor who is an expert in medical conflicts of interest...That would likely put Prince on the stand a day after the fourth anniversary of his father's death.

Outrageous. That Katherine & her lawyers would put Prince on the stand on or just after the 4th anniversary of his father's death is beyond despicable imo. The Jackson camp must feel it's worth it to sacrifice Prince in order to pull on the heart strings of the jury. But it may backfire, and the jury may see this stunt as what it is--using a minor child to leverage a big financial payout. SHAME on them!

And, actually, given the impaired judgment of the Jackson side, I'm surprised they're not setting up cameras in Paris' hospital room so she can testify, too.

(rant over)

 

[Ashtanga]

A lot of informations coming from all sides, each person says something different and still nothing is clear in our minds. :doh: *big sigh*

I know Karen Faye will be back on the witness stand on Friday

:fear:

 

[ivy]

not that bad after all when we hear the full deposition

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 57m
Kevin Boyle: Do you think Demerol addiction caused MJ's death?
Dr. Earley: I do not

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 41m
Dr Earley would prescribe naltrexone, alternative ways to manage pain. He would close down access to opioid, contact every doctor, pharmacy


ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 35m
Dr. Earley: I will stand strongly against someone saying it was the addict's fault.

"No, I don't believe it's proper to blame the addict," Dr. Earley expressed.

 

[Mechi]

The Jacksons will say it's Prince who absolutely wants to do this. Maybe that's even true, that he feels he needs to get into the stand!
Me personally does not agree with this. There is some sense in calling a minor a minor... it's to show everyone responsibility, the decision is and should be done with the adult/guardian.
I'm praying for Princes! I know he loved his Dad dearly. I hope he does know that he doesn't have to do this for his Dad!

 

[Mechi]

about the addiction talk... the coroners report said clearly: no signs of addiction.
Maybe I'm too simple minded? To me that's all I need to know about this. The rest is speculation only! *shrugs*

 

[Ashtanga]

not that bad after all when we hear the full deposition

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 57m
Kevin Boyle: Do you think Demerol addiction caused MJ's death?
Dr. Earley: I do not

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 41m
Dr Earley would prescribe naltrexone, alternative ways to manage pain. He would close down access to opioid, contact every doctor, pharmacy


ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 35m
Dr. Earley: I will stand strongly against someone saying it was the addict's fault.

"No, I don't believe it's proper to blame the addict," Dr. Earley expressed.

Addict.... :no: errin: He just had a problem sleeping. :bugeyed :doh: *big sigh*

 

[passy001]

^^^^Jackson lawyers informed AEG Live attorneys Monday that Prince will be the next witness after a doctor who is an expert in medical conflicts of interest...That would likely put Prince on the stand a day after the fourth anniversary of his father's death.

Outrageous. That Katherine & her lawyers would put Prince on the stand on or just after the 4th anniversary of his father's death is beyond despicable imo. The Jackson camp must feel it's worth it to sacrifice Prince in order to pull on the heart strings of the jury. But it may backfire, and the jury may see this stunt as what it is--using a minor child to leverage a big financial payout. SHAME on them!

And, actually, given the impaired judgment of the Jackson side, I'm surprised they're not setting up cameras in Paris' hospital room so she can testify, too.

(rant over)

The kids don't have to relive this trauma just for a quick buck they don't even need.
Somehow I feel this so-called trial was set up just for the tabloids. they are having a great time. aren't they?

 

[crillon]

The kids don't have to relive this trauma just for a quick buck they don't even need.

Exactly. Using these kids is so unconscionable to begin with (Katherine could not have filed this lawsuit without them) and then to make Prince testify on the anniversary of his father's death just shows such callous disregard for his welfare--it's stunning to me. Truly. Have they no shame?

 

[AliCat]

Who's on the stand today?

Any clue as to how the rest of the week is going to play out. I know Karen Faye will be back on the witness stand on Friday, but what's on the schedule between now and Friday?

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
That concludes Day 36 of testimony. What are your thoughts so far? Hope to see you all tomorrow!
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Judge adjourned session until 9:45 am PT tomorrow when Dr. Matheson will resume testimony. Attorneys to argue motion before that.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"The fact that Mr. Phillips realizes that's important, to me he realizes there's a potential for conflict in this scenario."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
As to Phillips writing Dr. Murray is extremely successful and doesn't need this gig, Dr. Matheson reacted:
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"We wouldn't normally put an athlete back in the game while their health was declining," Dr. Matheson explained.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Phillips' response 'I will call you when I figure this out' showed that Phillips was in charge, Dr. Matheson said.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
But it also showed it wasn't working, MJ was still weak and showing psychological problems, Dr. Matheson explained.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Ortega's reference that 'we brought Dr. Murray into the fold' shows Dr. Matheson that there's a full alignment with the way they thought.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Phillips responded "we have a real problem here," which Dr. Matheson said showed Phillips recognized there was a problem with MJ.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"Basket case is a strong word, doubt is pervasive is fairly strong statement," Dr. Matheson said.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Regarding chain email "Trouble at the Front":
Dr Matheson said he was intrigued Hougdahl needed to qualify he wasn't being 'a drama queen'
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"Doctors should be able to make independent medical decision on what the best care is for the patient," Dr. Matheson expressed.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: What impact would that have on Dr. Murray?
Dr. Matheson: He wouldn't have a job and he wouldn't have an income
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"If MJ was unable to rehearse or perform, the show would stop completely," Dr. Matheson said.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
The pressure increases as you get close to the end of the game, for example, Dr. Matheson said.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"The result of a conflict of interest could be a bad medical decision," Dr. Matheson explained.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"The email shows lack of independent decision," Dr. Matheson said about Phillips' email.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
As to Phillips' email saying AEG was paying doc salary email:

"That very directly relates to the intent to control the doctors' decision."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson said the email pointed some health concerns that needed attentoion, questioned if physician was making independent decisions.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss talked about emails exchanged. On 6/14/09 Ortega asked who was responsible for MJ's nourishment, advised doctor didn't allow rehearsal
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"That conflicts which priority is primary: MJ or producer of shows," Dr. Matheson explained.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson: It can produce bias in thinking, the doctor wants to retain that payment and please the producer paying him.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson said the contract was subject to immediate termination if show was canceled or postponed.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"When doctors take on roles, you want them to make independent medical decisions not tied to secondary interests," Dr. Matheson explained.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"I think Dr. Murray needed to be paid certain amount of money, because he owed a lot of money," Dr. Matheson said.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"It's a lot of money to be paid to a physician, particularly a physician who was deeply indebted," Dr. Matheson testified.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"The contract was negotiated," Dr. Matheson opined. "I think Dr. Murray was operating under the assumption the contract was enforced."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson: "I think in this case the conflict of interest led to poor medical decisions."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"When MJ was deteriorating, I think that conflict of interest played out," Dr. Matheson said.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"Contract made him answerable to AEG," Dr. Matheson said. "It could be canceled if the tour were canceled or terminated.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson said he believes Dr. Murray was in a conflicting position, promised payment he was to receive to get MJ ready.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: Do you believe there was conflict of interest between MJ and AEG?
Dr Matheson: Yes, I do. I believe they created conflict of interest
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"I think Mr. Jackson's performance was highly physical, similar to what an athlete does," Dr. Matheson expressed.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr Matheson never worked in music industry but said one of the most obvious relations between sports/musicians is the 3 way party scenario
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson never testified as a witness before. He's been paid $500/hour, got information with colleagues on what to charge.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson said Dr. Rice loved football, and her quote was that if she were a man, she would play football.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson worked with former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice at Stanford in the conflict of interest area.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"When someone stands to gain, it stands to affect their decision-making," Dr. Matheson explained.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson said conflict of interest is circumstances that create risks that decisions may be unduly influenced for secondary interest.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"The minute you have a three way party there may be conflict of interest," Dr. Matheson opined.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"In clinical practice it's you and patient," Dr. Matheson said. "But in team practice you have 3 way parties: patients, coach, agent, etc"
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
He has worked with Canadian hockey team, Olympic games as medical officer and looked after university teams prior to Stanford.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson was recruited to Stanford to take care of their sports medicine program and their athletes.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Sports medicine is the care of athlete involved in competitive endeavors and physical activity, nutrition and health, Dr. Matheson explained
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson work splits between teaching, research and medical care. He has written about 150 articles for professional publications.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Matheson is a physician, works at Stanford University, Professor in the School of Medicine, sports medicine.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
That concluded Dr. Earley's video deposition. Next plaintiff called Dr. Gordon Matheson, a conflict of interest specialist.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr Earley: Being around physicians triggered drug craving inadvertently and power was inverted. MJ was in the power seat cause of his status
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Earley: I saw nothing on the record showing that in the last two months of his life any doctor, but Dr. Murray, gave him Propofol
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"Unfortunately, doctors became a source of drugs for him," Dr. Earley opined. "Having doctor with him, prescription pad, was dangerous."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"Addiction memory is a expression I coined," Dr. Earley said. "The brain learns automatically how to maintain the addiction."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley said he remembered some statements in the record that MJ wanted his children to see him perform, wanted to be a good parent.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr Earley: Universally was stated in the record MJ's dedication/compassion to his children, wanting the best for them, desire to be good dad
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr Earley: Everyone gets motivation from different source. Some by professional reasons, other by family, getting their pride/name back
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley testified some people can overcome addiction with very little initial motivation.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"There was secrecy, hiding, one doctor not talking to another, that's the kind of stuff we saw," Dr. Earley said.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"No, I don't believe it's proper to blame the addict," Dr. Earley expressed.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley: However, it doesn't mean addict doesn't have to take charge of recovery at some point
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley: I will stand strongly against someone saying it was the addict's fault.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Boyle: Was MJ's death all his own fault?
Dr. Earley: I dedicated my career to take care of addicted people in this planet.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"Addiction is a biological disease, once it gets going overrides a lot of decision making," Dr. Earley explained.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr Earley: I'm not inferring the family was getting/giving him drugs. There's zero evidence of that, they wanted nothing but the best 4 him
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"The problem comes from the issue of power," the expert testified. "It's much more difficult to treat a patriarch than the patriarch's son."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
One intervention failed because Michael Jackson appeared quite healthy, Dr. Earley said.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley testified he saw no evidence the family gave MJ drugs."I'm completely clear his family wanted nothing but to help him."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley said he would've given MJ skills called drug refusal, unearth tragic secrecy surrounding his life, which contributed to his death
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr Earley would prescribe naltrexone, alternative ways to manage pain. He would close down access to opioid, contact every doctor, pharmacy
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
He would also explain the need for prolonged period of rehab, more than 3 months and less than year treatment.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley said if he were to treat MJ, he would have tried to understand if family could stand behind him not obtaining drugs.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
MJ was extremely secretive regarding his style, would not talk about drug use to all physicians treating him, Dr. Earley testified.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Also, the fact MJ was providing financial resources to family made it harder for an intervention, Dr. Earley opined.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley: His legendary status caused people to, unfortunately, set aside boundaries
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"MJ was taking opioids for a prolonged period of time," Dr. Earley said, which decreased his prognosis.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Detox is difficult, slow but safe and preferred.

"I don't make my medical decisions based on corporate decision," Dr. Earley testified.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"Benzodiazepine requires cautious, careful taper," Dr. Earley said. Some individuals are very sensitive, it's very difficult to get off."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Occasionally, Dr. Earley had to give sedative drugs because patients are agitated and irritable.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"When people are addicted to Propofol, you just stop it," Dr. Earley said. "Discontinuing it is not life threatening."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley said he did not see any record that Dr. Murray treated MJ with suboxone.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"I saw evidence MJ was treated with buprenorphine, I think by doctor Saunders," Dr. Earley said, but couldn't remember the dates.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley explained the current practice to treat opioid dependency is to use a drug called buprenorphine (suboxone).
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley: Discontinuing opioids cold turkey is not life threatening, it can be done. Before we had detox drug, that's what I would do.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley: Chills is very generic symptom and could mean anything: flu, cold, low blood sugar, lots of different reasons people have chills
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"When you take away the Propofol, you have insomnia," Dr. Earley explained. People can be irritable, don't have chills, some had seizures.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley: MJ most likely had some baseline insomnia, which was worsen by the use of benzodiazepine and Propofol use
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley said the withdrawal of Propofol can cause depression, insomnia and irritability.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley conducted a case study with 22 Propofol dependent individuals. The study was funded by AEG Live.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
"I'd like to say I wouldn't have done what other doctors did" Dr. Earley testified."Prescribing MJ's Propofol ultimately caused his death"
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley said Michael was a man whose reputation, skills, wonder exceeded 99% of the people in the planet, so it was hard to say no to him
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Other contributing factors for opioid dependency: psychological issues, early life trauma, access to drug, alcohol abuse.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
It matters whether your parents had substance abuse or dependency disorder, but not true in 100 percent of the cases, Dr. Earley said
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Opioids dependency start when they're used, Dr. Earley explained. He said the single largest contributor is genetic.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
However, Dr. Earley said he didn't think there was sufficient data to reach a conclusive opinion about MJ being addicted to Propofol.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
After reviewing MJ's medical record, Dr. Earley opined: "There's evidence of addiction to opioids dating back to early 1990s."
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Dr. Earley opined that benzodiazepines alone were not the cause of MJ's death, but the synergy with propofol was fatal.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Kevin Boyle: Do you think Demerol addiction caused MJ's death?
Dr. Earley: I do not
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
There was no morning session today. Afternoon began with resumption of video deposition of Dr. Paul Earley played last week.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 4h
Day 36 of Jackson family vs AEG trial just ended. Katherine Jackson was in court, wearing a polka dot jacket, for the afternoon only session
https://twitter.com/ABC7Courts

 

[passy001]

Exactly. Using these kids is so unconscionable to begin with (Katherine could not have filed this lawsuit without them) and then to make Prince testify on the anniversary of his father's death just shows such callous disregard for his welfare--it's stunning to me. Truly. Have they no shame?

To be honest I am utterly disgusted.

An appalling ploy to inflame the jury and get their sympathy.

This is definitely not a coincidence.

The jacksons made clear where their priorities lie. They want that AEG money at all costs.

 

[jamba]

I did not say that, I looked it up and said april 6 and 28 for propofol, april 30 for benzos. Bouee

Ok, look at the date--April 6 CM receives propofol (or did he place the order that day? in any case one or the other), yet on April 18th MJ is working with Cherilyn Lee having her watch him sleep and supposedly (according to her) asking her to find him a dr. to give him propofol. The next day, the 19th, he meets with Metzger at Carolwood. Now why is he talking to the 2 about sleep related issues when CM had already ordered the propofol/ or received it????

This tells me something--that MJ wanted someone else to administer the propofol, an anesthesiologist, and not CM. Because he was asking 2 other people about these issue--so he was NOT all set up with CM doing it. Maybe CM was getting the propfol ahead of time for use down the road during the actual tour (which seemed to be how MJ used it in the past). But I still think that CM was not MJ's choice. He was a last resort when MJ did not find another person, although he did want Abrams from Las Vegas.

Bouee, you mentioned it being hard to be against the 'mainstream opinion." But I really think we are all looking for the truth, or as close to it as we can get, and it is a challenge to find it in all the various theories, details, evidence, opinions. I think people are being sincere and that's why we need patience with each other (just my opinion). People are going to disagree--it's human nature. It's the way we express it that's the key IMO.

 

[crillon]

To be honest I am utterly disgusted.

An appalling ploy to inflame the jury and get their sympathy.

This is definitely not a coincidence.

The jacksons made clear where their priorities lie. They want that AEG money at all costs.

Not a coincidence at all, I agree. I think they timed it so that Prince's testimony would hit right around the anniversary. And, yes--they want the money at ANY cost.

 

[Ashtanga]

They want that AEG money at all costs.

Anything for money. *big sigh*

 

[Tygger]

Bouee, I do not find your comment to be sarcastic.

I was always clear I supported the plaintiffs before the trial while you seemed to be mostly impartial. I appreciate that you reviewed testimonies with an open mind, asked questions, and sought answers even if what you found did not support what you may have originally felt about either side. You could have been a great juror for this trial.

Didn't AEG pay some advance money to MJ? I've been wondering why did Michael Amir Williams call Gongaware asking him to offer 150K to Murray? Did MJ directed his assistant to call Gongaware to deal with that stuff? Why didn't MJ made the offer himself or directed MAW to his own lawyer? Or did MAW just himself decided to call PG for that not knowing what to do?

AEG's lawyers should have directed Murray to MJ and his lawyers. It seems the situation was a huge mess with all those people being hired and fired all over the place and MJ not having a stable team.

Yea, I remember that. But my question still stands, why didn't MAW go to MJ's lawyer with the Murray offer?

Yea, but I'm talking about that initial conversation where MAW tells Gongaware to offer Murray 150K. This convo should've been done with MJ's lawyer, why did they go to Gongaware with it? It seems like a confusing situation.

Serendipity the jury is most likely asking the same questions. In their effort to control Michael and/or his spending (if you believe the interpretation of the “control” email four years after it was written), AEG decided it was better for them to allegedly hire the doctor instead of just advancing the money for the salary like they did with Chase. The doctor’s contract was never seen by anyone in Michael’s camp, including his lawyers, because Michael did not hire him. There was no need to involve Michael or his lawyers as AEG was doing the alleged hiring. The only thing Michael did was chose the doctor and suggest his salary per month. AEG did everything else.

If they had advanced the money, AEG would not have even known what salary the doctor received per month. They would have given Michael $X and Michael would distribute or spend it as he and his handlers saw fit. This is why Chase did not get paid routinely; the advance monies were spent and she was paid through an advance while the doctor was to be paid through production costs.

I think they said "week of july 8th" so that gives them 10 to 14 days. for a total of 10-11 weeks. We know Matheson is testifying, Karen Faye will be back and they plan to play depositions of Leiweke and Dr. Finkelstein. I agree that they need to bring this together. As of now, it seems way to unorganized.

Also interestingly it's been reported they expect this case to end by the end of August and some reports even said early August. So if true AEG is only expecting a defense of 6 - 8 weeks.

Ivy, the plaintiffs had the burden of trying to show AEG allegedly hired the doctor and that takes time. The defense does not have to do as much to defend themselves in a civil trial; they will try mostly to minimize the damages by blaming Michael (and maybe his mother) which should not take very long. They may very well wrap up their case before the end of 6 weeks.

Please show me testimony that shows that AEG knew MJ had insomnia. I would love to see that.

Passy001, please take a moment and read the summaries that Ivy has posted for Walker’s, Payne’s, and Faye’s testimonies. Please also see Phillips’ and Gongaware’s summarized testimonies where they speak to not remembering any conversations via meetings or phone conversations about Michael’s sleep issues and the doctor being their to remedy those issues. It’s there. I would gain nothing from fabricating that.

He never got it. No one at AEG sent the contracts to Michael's camp. I suppose they meant to show him the contract later, since he was supposed to sign it. But that's one of the Jackson's argument.

Bouee, AEG could have Dileo or Tohme sign for him actually. They never really had to give it to Michael to sign for the contract to be valid. Michael’s production cost mushroomed and he was committed to 19 more shows without his signature or Dileo’s or Tohme’s for that matter.

I'm calling it: a mistrial.

Troubleman84, for both parties involved, particularly for the plaintiffs, I would prefer the jury render a verdict than not one at all.

Jackson lawyers informed AEG Live attorneys Monday that Prince will be the next witness after a doctor who is an expert in medical conflicts of interest completes his testimony Tuesday. That would likely put Prince on the stand a day after the fourth anniversary of his father's death.

I see the comments regarding the above quote but, I do not see any comments regarding the below quote:

Prince will be the only one of Jackson's three children who will appear in court, although the video of Paris' deposition over two days in March will be seen at some point during the AEG Live defense presentation. The company compelled her testimony, calling her a key witness to her father's dealings with Murray and to her own relationship with her father. Jackson lawyers informed the court last week that Paris, 15, would not be available to testify in person because she is hospitalized for psychiatric treatment after a suicide attempt earlier this month.

Remember the oldest was part of a claim that the judge refused. The oldest was ALWAYS going to testify; now fans know the date of the testimony.

 

[Tygger]

I'm surprised this was not posted here. Friedman agrees with many here about Dr. Czeisler.

So much was made last week of Michael Jackson not sleeping for the last 60 days of his life. First of all, it was an overstatement. He may not have been sleeping at night, but he slept during the day. You may recall an interview I did with a long time friend of Michael’s who ran into him at Dr. Arnold Klein’s office one afternoon in May 2009. It was clear he was sleeping there. He also looked and felt great, very refreshed. http://www.showbiz411.com/2009/07/0...ackson-joanne-horowitz-studio-54-arnold-klein

More to the point: one look at Frank Cascio’s excellent and revealing book, “My Friend Michael,” describes Jackson’s sleep problems, his use of Demerol and Propofol early on. Cascio was with him for a good part of the 90s into the early 2000s. I think, frankly, it undermines the testimony from last week. Cascio traveled with Jackson extensively, and knew all of his peccadilloes. His book lays out Jackson’s life in minute detail. I wonder if all the lawyers in the current case have read it.

Cascio wrote: “Now, on tour, and again in deep physical pain, Michael turned back to those drugs. Maybe he was simply following
doctors’ orders: his adrenaline was so high after each show that it was the only way he could sleep. For all I really know, the treatments may have been his idea. However it came about, over time Michael began to rely on Demerol to wind down after the shows, and most likely to escape from the overwhelming stress, pressure, and responsibilities of his extraordinary life…How impossible it must have been to dial down from the hyper mode of the show to the complete calm of sleep….him. The doctor came, and then Michael went right to bed. I understood that he was taking medicine to help him go to sleep. I knew nothing about prescription pain medicine….

“…an anesthesiologist started showing up two or three times a week, some weeks, to help Michael sleep. I paid the man in cash, because all of Michael’s medical issues had to be kept from the public and their cost off the books. The doctor was perfectly straightforward with me. “What I do,” he said, “is put Michael to sleep for a couple of hours. Then I ease him out of sleep.” It was the same treatment I had witnessed after Michael’s accident in Munich. The doctor would set up equipment and an IV in Michael’s room, and would stay with him, the door closed, for about four hours. He said that the treatment was risky, but he assured me that he knew what he was doing…”

“On those nights, he couldn’t sleep unless this dangerous drug— the drug that would eventually kill him— was administered. For a long time I thought it was okay and normal. I didn’t think he had a drug problem. Over the years, I had grown accustomed to seeing doctors coming and going, particularly during tours, when Michael was under great stress and needed help falling asleep. I thought he was simply someone who had serious medical problems and used drugs to treat them.”

And this is just a little bit of it. The idea that AEG’s concert rehearsals caused Michael to lose sleep– and thereby be vulnerable to dying– doesn’t ring true. Not when you hear that Jackson was living like this for two decades.
http://www.showbiz411.com/2013/06/2...snt-news-he-was-using-drugs-for-it-in-the-90s

 

[passy001]

Passy001, please take a moment and read the summaries that Ivy has posted for Walker’s, Payne’s, and Faye’s testimonies. Please also see Phillips’ and Gongaware’s summarized testimonies where they speak to not remembering any conversations via meetings or phone conversations about Michael’s sleep issues and the doctor being their to remedy those issues. It’s there. I would gain nothing from fabricating that.

See, this does not prove that AEG knew about MJ having sleeping issues. Not remembering something took place is not an admission of a knowledge of it. Plus Payne and Fayes' testimonies do in no way indicate that AEG knew about MJ having insomnia.

The Jacksons need to prove that AEG executives were fully aware of MJ suffering from insomnia. They did manage to establish however that MJ had real problems. but that is not what they are claiming in the lawsuit. is it?

so they still have 2 weeks or so they say to establish that.

by the way, nobody is accusing you of fabrication or gaining anything from it.