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Murray Trial Day 22, November 1st

twinklEE said:
honestly all this time I was sure about the verdict but now with us being basically at the end of this case, omg I can't even think right, I don't think it's possible to get over a not guilty verdict. I dont' even wanna think about it, this is just like 2005 with the exception of this being trial about how michael jackson's death. omg
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I know just how you feel...(((many virtual hugs)))


It. just. really. feels. like. the end of everything.
 
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[size=+1]We Love You MORE[/size]

:heart: Justice For MICHAEL JACKSON :heart: :angel:
 
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Ramona122003 said:
And this is what happens when you don't make your own charts. I wonder if the defense is shoting themselves for not bring that other doctor in. She could had explain why she apparently used an outdated model.

It's also a kick in the butt because Shaffer actually talked to the original author of the article that the defense was hanging on.
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Agree about making their own charts. But I think they did that on purpose to distance themselves from the f*ckery. She more than likely used that outdated model on purpose for the sake of misstating/mischaracterizing evidence. The defense has been nothing but sneaky and underhanded during this trial for the sake of confusing and misleading the jury.

It's nearly over now, ppl. And the defense has to face the fact that their opening statement and closing argument will be quite different. They did not provide the science they claimed would back up their case and they were able to discredit very little of the State's case. Walgren, on the other hand, will be able to tie the evidence and testimonies together to show how Murray screwed up...and that's whether someone wants to believe he was in the room or out of the room...whether they believe it was for 2 minutes or an hour....whether they believe Michael was already dead when Murray found him or still had a chance to live. This is Murray's cockup any which way someone wants to look at it...imo

All Michael wanted was some sleep and becuz of Murray he got eternal sleep!
 
cinzia said:
I know just how you feel...(((many virtual hugs)))


It. just. really. feels. like. the end of everything.
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this is like a ''this is it'' moment, I mean is this it for us? It's like the end of a horrible road. idk
 
It just feels kinda surreal that after all we've watched over the last few weeks, it'll all be over soon. Wow..
 
so we never will hear murray talking about how he did kill Michael Jackson.
he dont have to lie about all this. and we will never see this.
he maybe say to himself.... "well i killed michael jackson, but who cares? i dont need to talk about it, dont have to explain something, or to someone what i did, i dont have to lie. i'm at home for some years or months, and after that i'm doing some interviews, writing books, get my lovely money I've waited so loooong. who cares, i have my life!"

we only will get media reports, interwiews or books. all the tabloid shit.
damn. this is such a big shit trial!
this murderer must not say anything about this all.
he was not at a police office. no, he is doing an "interwiev" in the "Ritz". ^^ !!!
he never was handcuffed. never have to testify about this all in court.
he will not go to jail. no!... he is sitting at home, have a cool nice day in the sun. wow ^^
and if he will lost his medical license. only in california?
this murderer will get 100.000s or millions of dollar. have a nice life.

where is the justice????????
 
twinklEE said:
this is like a ''this is it'' moment, I mean is this it for us? It's like the end of a horrible road. idk
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yeah its scary. because of what could happen either the end or the begining. but im not gonna think like that cause its something i cant even imagine coping with. hugs to everyone. weve made it this far we can get through the rest. thanks to everyone for being here.
 
I have to go to sleep now guys, I'll be around again soon.

I am so damn stressed, I just hope things turn out ok. Murray has to be punished.
 
Shafer

Walgren

Lorazeapm : when given IV , some of it goes into the stomach. This has nothing to do with post mortem distribution.

There is no to differentiate MJ taking oral lorazepam, or CM giving MJ oral lorazeapm

About his 100 ml infusion over 3 hours simulation : doesn't show when MJ died, it was not necessarily at 12, the goal was just to show that MJ died with an infusion running.

IV setup : controlling the rate via the clamps is commonly done with certain medication, when you don't need to precisely set the rate (example antibiotics), so it is possible, but is not done with propofol (a pump would be used)

Lidocaine levels : his 100 ml infusion over 3 hours simulation is not inconsistant with levels found at autopsy .You can mix lidocain in the bottle, you just have to take some propofol off

Risk of propofol : the main risk of propofol is the failure to breath. It's the lack of oxygen in the heart that kills the heart.

Unchanged propofol in the urine : has researched the litterature : 1988 article says that very little unchanged propofol is found in the urine, so little that they didn't know if it was free propofol or its metabolite. They said it was less than 0.30% , but that's only the upper limit. It could be 0.3 to 0.

There are multiple articles published on the subject, the clearest is a 2002 article : confirmed the 1988 article, in 2002 they actually measured the unchanged propofol. The actual figure is between 0.002% to 0.004%

Autopsy urine propofol : 0.15 mg/ml . 500 ml of the urine = 82.50 micrograms of propofol .

Shows a table from the 2002 article :
the average found is 70.71 micrograms of propofol in the urine, it corresponds to a dose of 2000 mg .
It absoultely rules out Dr White's theory, actually suggests that MJ received more propofol that what Dr Shafer thought.

Standard of care : anesthesiolgist providing care in a remote location (ex :radiology suite, etc..), in a remote location , you have less tolerence for error, because you have no back up. You take no short cut. If there was such a thing as bedroom based anesthesia, if you have an error, you have mortality. So the standards of care would actually be higher.

Flanagan :

Argues about something in Dr Whites report, about lidocaine : Flanagan says that Dr Shafer wrote that 5 cc lidocaine is consistent with the autopsy report, Dr Shafer doesn't agree, Flanagan asks Dr Shafer to read a paragraph from his report

25 mg propofol is a subanesthetic dose : In most patients it's a sub anesthetic dose, it depends on what other medication is on board. Flanagan is trying to say that the article didn't mention sub anesthetic doses .

Walgren :

About the article and the use of sub anesthetic dose : the use of a larger doses makes the result more precise, that's all

Stipulation : peoples 52 actually reflects the accurate phone numbers

prosecution and defense rest.

recess until thursday 3rd november, 9 am.
 
I just wanted to add that juror #2 who did all the furious writing...we need to pray he sees things as we and the prosecution do. Someone who has invested so much time writing down so much info seems to be very passionate about this case. If that juror is on the State's side, that juror is going to be a pain in the ass for any juror wanting to let Murray go. If that juror is for Murray, that person will be a pain in the ass for jurors who want to convict. If that juror is a strong personality they could sway others or be the one juror to not be swayed and cause a hung jury. I believe someone referenced #2 as a "he" at some point, not sure.

Either the juror is passionate about delivering justice or he's getting his manuscript ready for sale. Pray to whoever or whatever it is you believe in. :angel:

We Love you, Michael! :heart:
 
mjchris said:
i'm at home for some years or months, and after that i'm doing some interviews, writing books, get my lovely money I've waited so loooong. who cares, i have my life!"
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If he is found guilty he is not allowed to profit from his crime (meaning no books or interviews for money).
 
I wasn't prepared for such an abrupt ending tbh, I thought we'd get Gabrielle Ornalis, in addition to Walgren crossing White, and then Shafer and Anderson, it moved extremely fast today.
 
Does this mean after 2 hours of that the jury will deliberate? and maybe back at thursday too?
 
Ingelief said:
Does this mean after 2 hours of that the jury will deliberate? and maybe back at thursday too?
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we don't know how long the closing arguements will take, normally they take longer than the opening arguments. Personally, I wouldn't expect the jurors to be back on Thursday itself, even if they get an hour or two for deliberation.
 
Milka said:
If he is found guilty he is not allowed to profit from his crime (meaning no books or interviews for money).
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ok, but he is alive. ^^
and thats much more than millions of dollar.
 
Ok thx

But alot is not adressed yet, like fingerprints and the lorezapam in the stomach today???

are walgren gonna do that in closing?
 
walgren and shafer addressed the lorazepam in the stomach in rebuttal. let's hope he's bringing up the lack of fingerprints, flumazenil etc in the closing arguments
 
Can I just take a moment quickly and thank all of you that have been participating and updating in all of the Trial Day threads?
I know there are plenty of fans, like myself, who might not have commented here everyday but have read and kept up with them throughout the trial. It's gonna be hard waiting for thursday so I hope we can stand strong together. :)
 
I guess this is (almost) it. A lot of the charts & graphs and science went over my head. I try to understand but my mind wanders when it's challenged too much, lol. Anyway, thanks to everyone here who provided updates, explanations and humor to lighten things up (it's needed sometimes). I would have liked to have written updates but the "S" key on my netbook doesn't work and I can't type much from my phone and by the time I get home from work the trial is almost over (frustratingly). I'm very nervous about the outcome, it would be devestating if Murray is not punished. But I think the prosecution has done a remarkable job so hopefully he will not get away with what he has done.

Edit: I'm typing this from my work computer on my break.
 
so why was lpam in the stomach according to shafer?

Flumazenil wasnt adresssed? fingerprints also not?
 
If this is over, im gonna mis you all, and its like an emptyness i feel right now :(

I feel sad even if we get justice it feels like there is nothing left
 
ok guys I just came in,,I guess I missed the whole days testimony...I wil have to read this thread to catch up...how did Walgren to today? are we done yet? Rebuttel going to start? Thanks. How about Murray,,,will he testify?
 
Everythibg is over. closing statements thursday the defence didnt call that dr woman who did the models for white. shaffer rebuted for the pros
 
xthunderx2 said:
ok guys I just came in,,I guess I missed the whole days testimony...I wil have to read this thread to catch up...how did Walgren to today? are we done yet? Rebuttel going to start? Thanks. How about Murray,,,will he testify?
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He did great! Shafer testified re the urine and Propofol, they debunked White's testimony. CM never took the stand. The closings are Thursday at 9 am.
 
xthunderx2 said:
ok guys I just came in,,I guess I missed the whole days testimony...I wil have to read this thread to catch up...how did Walgren to today? are we done yet? Rebuttel going to start? Thanks. How about Murray,,,will he testify?
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Rebuttal over. Not trial tomorrow, closing arguments on Thursday.
 
I would also thank everyone who has provided updates and explanations. Like suzynyc I have found some of the mathematical explanations quite challenging since I am numerically dyslexic, but i have really appreciated all the info and company this board provides. There has been so much good work done from the folks here on MJJC and I am sure it has been invaluable for all the fans following the trial. The updates have been very important to me since I haven't been following the trial on t.v much so I needed to know what was going on and I am so impressed by the info posted.
I just hope and pray that Conrad Murray gets convicted and Michael gets justice. It feels like 05 again in many ways.
hugs to you all.
L.O.V.E
 
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