Monster - The Great Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

[suzynyc]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

There's a big difference between adding a spoken part and crediting it to the actual speaker and including lead vocals that are questionable. I agree that songs need to be completed but there are ways of doing this that don't make half the fan base think they're listening to a fake. This is a Michael Jackson album. There should be no doubt regarding the lead vocals. Period.

If they have to alter the vocals in such a way that many are convinced they aren't listening to Michael then to me they aren't doing their job well. Teddy and whoever else worked on this CD were hired to work on a Michael Jackson CD. Their first priority should have been to preserve his voice, not speed it up to match their production of the song. To me, honestly, it doesn't matter if they hired an imposter or if they altered his vocals. Altered vocals are altered vocals, whether they were altered by some piece of technology or sung by an imposter. Either way, to me it's not Michael.

Thank you. Agree completely.

 

[suzynyc]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Slave to the Rhythm - now THAT'S what Michael Jackson sounds like. If this song doesn't slap you in the face and make you realise how disastrously fake the Cascio songs are, I don't know what will...

(My opinion of course)

I agree with your opinion.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I explained why I found it unbelievable in the rest of my previous post.

they already knew about the controversy - concerns, it wasn't a new issue to call a meeting on.

Plus album announcement came Nov 6, in some of the world the Cd was released December 10. that's one month window - it's just enough time for CD pressing of over 3 million copies (that's what they shipped), booklet printing and distribution (around the world).

Plus Taryll just before Breaking news was released said that there were few questionable songs on the album - hence they knew Cascio songs made the album. From his statement it doesn't seem like Sony was still debating about the Cascio songs, they had already included in the album.

so to me personally "the meeting at Sony" is unbelievable.

-----

Sorry like I said no disrespect to smooth and his source but unless I see a name and credentials I can't be sure that it's indeed from Sony. With a source confirmation I'm open to treat it as an unofficial yet credible information until then color me skeptical.

and like you said without any official confirmation how can you generalize what a person said from Sony Canada to be the overall point of view Sony corporation.

So according to you one of the biggest and leading companies in the world streamed the wrong mix despite the fact that they knew there was a controversy about the song? Sorry, but after ten years of studio absence;, if there is something unbelievable it is the fact that they mistakenly streamed the wrong mix of a controversial song as the first song from the new and posthumous album. In my opinion it is a stupid move from their part.

 

[loka]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

There is a MONSTER song, that is not the one from the Cascios.

That song is about a man who want to suicide.

:yes:

it's not a proof that these are 2 different songs...

One song cange have its lyrics changed time after time, studio sessiosn after studio sessions...

 

[Kapital77]

Well, i respect that you think is Mj, but i really have no doubt that is Jason Malachi.

The video/audio comparations said the truth.

And more after heard Slave to the rythm.

That´s the real MJ.

 

[loka]

Well, i respect that you think is Mj, but i really have no doubt that is Jason Malachi.

The video/audio comparations said the truth.

And more after heard Slave to the rythm.

That´s the real MJ.

as far as I'm concerned there are 2 singers on BN and one them is MJ

Listen to this :

so-so acapella of BN (we never had a real acapaella of the track) submitted to melodyne again

http://soundcloud.com/user3732186/breaking-news-test

I can hear 2 singers...and you ?

 

[Korgnex]

Bit of a leap? Coming into this thread quite cold, but this statement stood out as a bit odd. I don't think you could rule out a meeting ever having happened in a worldwide corporation, because you have one contact.

Decisions whether to cancel a release or not are ONLY made at the highest level.

I hope so...
but i don´t think so.

They are risking their job and Sony looks what they tell in the Mj forum.
They give them demos to leak on forums, info, snipped, etc...

LOL. For your interest:
A German hacker that has been arrested has STOLEN tracks like "Slave To The Rhythm".

This was widely reported in Germany. 2 people have been arrested.

The individual known as "tak" is also a CRIMINAL and has apparently been arrested, too, after SELLING 8 tracks of MJ.



Back to reality please.

 

[loka]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

How many songs have the same title in all the catalogue of MJ ?



How many ? On something like 600 songs !


so the probability for Monster of 98 and Monster of 2010 to be completely different is very thin ...isn't it ?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Decisions whether to cancel a release or not are ONLY made at the highest level.





LOL. For your interest:
A German hacker that has been arrested has STOLEN tracks like "Slave To The Rhythm".

This was widely reported in Germany. 2 people have been arrested.

The individual known as "tak" is also a CRIMINAL and has apparently been arrested, too, after SELLING 8 tracks of MJ.



Back to reality please.

Yes back to reality in which SONY released an album of 10 songs, among which 3 tracks contain unrecognizable lead vocals, one leaked song in 2008, one leaked song prior the the album release, one demo released in 2004, one song released by other artists (so the melody and lyrics were known) and one song that is even not 3 minutes long.

If what SONY has done isn't stealing, I don't know what it is. Um, yes, the only difference is that SONY are legally stealing thanks to the money they used to invest in something that they turned into an official item.

 

[Korgnex]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

@BUMPER SNIPPET:

I understand that you are not satisfied with the compilation "Michael".

If you're curious to know what I'm thinking, I tell you that I'm also not satisfied.
E.g. I think that "Hold My Hand" is the weakest choice and doesn't work as a lead single. The Cascio tracks could have been used for a separate project as well.

However you're just becoming too emotional and make accusations against the record company.

If what SONY has done isn't stealing, I don't know what it is.

It's BUSINESS. We'll get more releases. And you'll get more of the songs that you want. You can't demand a record company to release the best songs Michael has left.

What would happen AFTER they have been released?? A record company is seeking for commercial success over time, not just for one short moment that will quickly pass by.

There'll come a time when there's nothing left for release...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

@BUMPER SNIPPET:

I understand that you are not satisfied with the compilation "Michael".

If you're curious to know what I'm thinking, I tell you that I'm also not satisfied.
E.g. I think that "Hold My Hand" is the weakest choice and doesn't work as a lead single. The Cascio tracks could have been used for a separate project as well.

However you're just becoming too emotional and make accusations against the record company.





It's BUSINESS. We'll get more releases. And you'll get more of the songs that you want. You can't demand a record company to release the best songs Michael has left.

What would happen AFTER they have been released?? A record company is seeking for commercial success over time, not just for one short moment that will quickly pass by.

There'll come a time when there's nothing left for release...

Well I am very well aware of the fact that it is purely buisiness, and that is why actually I am getting emotional. Michael was a businessman too, but at least he gave us quality 10-track albums.

I just find it outrageous that for the first posthumous album and after 10 years of studio absence, SONY made such lame choices... driven by the sole criterion: business.

And I can guarantee you that I am not a whiny or pessimist person. But too much is too much. SONY really kills music. Fortunately, Michael has nothing to prove, he already achieved the status of the reference in terms of music, dance and innovative ideas.

 

[januska]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

The Estate is in desperate need for a person who truly, honestly appreciates the music, the art, the legacy of Michael Jackson. If both Estate and Sony approach things with nothing but greed and business purposes, what we get are products not only missing the final magical touch by Michael, but products that can barely touch your heart and soul.

This is just very, very sad

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

So according to you one of the biggest and leading companies in the world streamed the wrong mix despite the fact that they knew there was a controversy about the song? Sorry, but after ten years of studio absence;, if there is something unbelievable it is the fact that they mistakenly streamed the wrong mix of a controversial song as the first song from the new and posthumous album. In my opinion it is a stupid move from their part.

let's clarify the "wrong mix" here.

If you followed Teddy Riley my understanding is that he said that he reworked the song after it was streaming on the website. so if true It's more like after the fan uproar they asked Teddy to rework/ to remove some layers / additional vocals so that MJ's vocals would become more recognizable.

plus "mistake" by definition is an unintentional wrongdoing. how could it be classified as a stupid "move" if it was unintentional.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Of course you can't get a perfect result. You NEVER will, because Michael never sang this .

remember to differentiate between an opinion and fact.

Can I just ask why you say that to the people who doubt the vocals but you don't say it to the people who claim the vocals are Michael? Such as below...

Don't need this to prove it's him. Already know it is 100% MJ.

 

[MusicMan26]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

let's clarify the "wrong mix" here.

If you followed Teddy Riley my understanding is that he said that he reworked the song after it was streaming on the website. so if true It's more like after the fan uproar they asked Teddy to rework/ to remove some layers / additional vocals so that MJ's vocals would become more recognizable.

plus "mistake" by definition is an unintentional wrongdoing. how could it be classified as a stupid "move" if it was unintentional.

Which is strange because I don't hear a difference in the voice between the streamed version and the CD version. I have both my computer and CD player hooked up to the same speakers.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Can I just ask why you say that to the people who doubt the vocals but you don't say it to the people who claim the vocals are Michael? Such as below...

That is what Korgnex tried to teach you yesterday.

Of course You failed to get it.

It has something to do with what we have as FACTS at the moment

and it also has something to do with pure speculation and lies at the other hand.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

let's clarify the "wrong mix" here.

If you followed Teddy Riley my understanding is that he said that he reworked the song after it was streaming on the website. so if true It's more like after the fan uproar they asked Teddy to rework/ to remove some layers / additional vocals so that MJ's vocals would become more recognizable.

plus "mistake" by definition is an unintentional wrongdoing. how could it be classified as a stupid "move" if it was unintentional.

I didn't make myself clear enough. What I qualify as a stupid move is not the mistake, but the fact that they knew the track was controversial, yet they put it as a first streaming single!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

That is what Korgnex tried to teach you yesterday.

Of course You failed to get it.

It has something to do with what we have as FACTS at the moment

and it also has something to do with pure speculation and lies at the other hand.

Yes, we ignorant people lie and speculate.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Which is strange because I don't hear a difference in the voice between the streamed version and the CD version. I have both my computer and CD player hooked up to the same speakers.

In which case the mistake is yours.

Cause I and many other could hear a difference between first stream & updated stream.

And of course cd-version is best, qualitywise. And that for you can recognise MJ's voice more clearly.

It's not that we don't hear the difference between cascio-tracks and most older MJ-Tracks.
It's more like we recognise it's still MJ's voice, even it sounds different and overprocessed.

If you hear hollywood tonight, monster & breaking news after one another, the difference isn't really that much.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

we recognise it's still MJ's voice, even it sounds different.

Love this line

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Yes, we ignorant people lie and speculate.

I do not say you are lying intentionally.

But everything you do/say is pure speculation. And when you state speculation as fact it becomes a lie. And this will sooner or later be proven.

 

[Dorian]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

In which case the mistake is yours.

Cause I and many other could hear a difference between first stream & updated stream.

And of course cd-version is best, qualitywise. And that for you can recognise MJ's voice more clearly.

It's not that we don't hear the difference between cascio-tracks and most older MJ-Tracks.
It's more like we recognise it's still MJ's voice, even it sounds different and overprocessed.

If you hear hollywood tonight, monster & breaking news after one another, the difference isn't really that much.

I also enjoy the Cascio tracks but please don't treat the doubters like your opinion is the best.This thread is getting hot.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

In which case the mistake is yours.

Cause I and many other could hear a difference between first stream & updated stream.

And of course cd-version is best, qualitywise. And that for you can recognise MJ's voice more clearly.

It's not that we don't hear the difference between cascio-tracks and most older MJ-Tracks.
It's more like we recognise it's still MJ's voice, even it sounds different and overprocessed.

If you hear hollywood tonight, monster & breaking news after one another, the difference isn't really that much.

Hollywood Tonight vocals sound nothing like BN or Monster. It is a compeltely different voice and phrase intonation.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I do not say you are lying intentionally.

But everything you do/say is pure speculation. And when you state speculation as fact it becomes a lie. And this will sooner or later be proven.

Speculate? Why would so many fans speculate? Do you think it is amusing for us?

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Can I just ask why you say that to the people who doubt the vocals but you don't say it to the people who claim the vocals are Michael? Such as below...

It's a general reminder put in the thread. I just quoted the first post with that action. Again as I said it didn't result in any post deletion or infraction to the poster quoted, it was just a reminder for everyone.

Which is strange because I don't hear a difference in the voice between the streamed version and the CD version. I have both my computer and CD player hooked up to the same speakers.

I didn't say that the voice changed dramatically. To me it sounded more like some additional vocals were removed or reduced in volume so that the lead vocal would become more main focus.

I didn't make myself clear enough. What I qualify as a stupid move is not the mistake, but the fact that they knew the track was controversial, yet they put it as a first streaming single!

now that could be intentional to actually attract attention to the release - which they succeeded I might add. Think like this: Hold My Hand was determined to be first single so why stream another song one week before that, especially it was controversial. "Breaking news" become the "breaking news" about new MJ album and it got everyone talking about the album, didn't it? For example even my brother who only listens to heavy metal music was curious enough to go MJ.com on his own to listen to Breaking News and voice his opinion to me.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Love this line

"Sam oh so great fan" what's wrong with this line?

Thats the point, isn't it?
We're not saying MJ sounds as always. But he didn't sound as alway in every other song of his. He had a great range of voval ability and a great range of different vocal and singing technics.
So he often sounded different on many many songs.
And to be honest, when i first heard "Don't Stop.." some 20 years ago, when i become a fan, i couldn't believe it was mike on the chrous of "Don't Stop.." The voice was so high & unMJish im my ear...

With that being said and the fact that the vocaltracks of the casciosongs are coming from a cheap home/basement-studio and are overprocessed to get them releasable, it's totally understandable if they don't sound as OG as the voice on 'Smooth Crimminal', or 'Earth Song'.

And now the next one steps in and says: "Then they shouldn't never have released them.."
But that is not the point and not the matter of the debate here.

And by the way sam:
If i was to point out every little line where You clearly got something wrong i would be sitting here way into next year, typing till my fingers bleed..
Not not only in this matter, but also when you were disussing something else, "oh so great fan".

 

[samhabib]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

now that could be intentional to actually attract attention to the release - which they succeeded I might add.

Right. Which is pretty stupid, I reckon, as all it's done is kill sales. I can think of a whole slew of MJ fans who actively HAVEN'T bought the album because of this. And a whole slew of non fans who listened to those fans.

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Right. Which is pretty stupid, I reckon, as all it's done is kill sales. I can think of a whole slew of MJ fans who actively HAVEN'T bought the album because of this. And a whole slew of non fans who listened to those fans.

but the question is how much the sales is hurt? it's the 3rd best selling album. It doesn't seem like it suffered that much.

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Speculate? Why would so many fans speculate? Do you think it is amusing for us?

I can't tell You why you do this for weeks & months. Why you can't get a grip and leave the facts as they are now.

Of course it's not amusing for you, i'm fully with you on this point. But believe me, it's also not amusing for the rest of the forum, to constantly read this speculations as facts & getting attacked, while we have the FACTS on our side at the moment. Is this so hard to understand?

As long as the opposite is not proven in court, Michael jackson is on these Tracks, singing the leadvocal, with additional vocals by James Porte.

And not some halfassed imposer which name i don't mention anymore, because it's simply ridiculous.

 

[samhabib]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

but the question is how much the sales is hurt? it's the 3rd best selling album. It doesn't seem like it suffered that much.

For the first posthumous album of 'new' work by the worlds greatest entertainer? Considering that 'old' work such as Thriller 25/This Is It/The Essential all outsold it? I think that's absolutely alarming to be honest. Michael Jackson getting outsold by Susan Boyle? Not my idea of success, I'm afraid. And considering Sony have invested $250 million dollars into this thing, I don't think it's their idea of success either.