Monster - The Great Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

[ivy]

A new proof that Mj did not wrote and sung those Cascio´s songs.

Honestly this could only be proof that Michael could have another song that's called Monster. It cannot be a proof that Michael did or didn't write another song with the same name.

Well, if proof is needed from those who released the album, there is info straight from SONY that they did hire a singer to complete more than 50% of the vocals on the Cascio tracks. They even had a meeting to decide what to do with the album - to release it or to remove it from the market.

sorry but this is unbelievably contradictory behavior.

I mean there are people here that calls the estate statement coming from a known person - Weitzman- not believable and all lies but yet consider a statement from smooth's source - who we don't who he/she is, whether or not he/she is in a position to be knowledgeable - to be reliable and truthful.

The problem is not the backing voice, but the leading vocals. By the way, we are not James Porrte's fans. Who took the decision to put him on all the three tracks? Why him?

Probably he was already on the demos when they were recorded in 2007.

 

[Dark Artist]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

That article from 1998 about Monster might not be proof that the Cascio song is fake, but it sure doesn't do it any favours.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Since when have you been believing what "smooth" has said.

I do have a contact at Sony and such a meeting has never happened ANYWHERE.

Removing it from the market has never been considered. This sounds like a daydream.


Now you're switching to a "it's 50% in each track"-story. Don't you notice?



Hmmm, maybe I have under-estimated what kind of influence "smooth" 's postings could have had. Seems like many people are believing this weird story now. Funny that "smooth" has tried to ignore his former postings...


But don't forget: This thread isn't about "smooth".

1) I am not talking about Smooth, but about what he reported.

2) I never said that I believe or not believe Smooth, because I am not speaking about Smooth.

3) The 50% thing does not come from me but straight from SONY, and again I did not state that it is my belief, I just am reporting what was said (it does not matter by whom, but that it came straight from SONY).


I try to objectively bring the proofs that everyone is asking straight from SONY. This is the only thing that we have.

Now, it is not because you have one source at SONY that Smooth doesn't have one too. Likewise, why would I trust you more than Smooth or the otherway round? Anyway this is not a debate here.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

sorry but this is unbelievably contradictory behavior.

I mean there are people here that calls the estate statement coming from a known person - Weitzman- not believable and all lies but yet consider a statement from smooth's source - who we don't who he/she is, whether or not he/she is in a position to be knowledgeable - to be reliable and truthful.

It is not contradictory. I never said I believed Smooth. But neither did I say that I do not believe him.

I am just reporting what he said came straight from SONY.

Now, I am trying to understand, if Smooth's statement was not a lie, all this mess makes sense, since Smooth also stated that there was going to be a big meeting at SONY in order to decide what to do next.

If such was the case and the meeting really did take place, it seems to me obvious that all what SONY will go for is denying that Cascio tracks are fake.

 

[Kapital77]

I do have a contact at Sony and such a meeting has never happened ANYWHERE.

Maybe, Right now i can understand why you defend that the Cascio´s tracks are sung by MJ.

You work or have friends at Sony, isn´t?.

 

[Kapital77]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Kapital77, there's really nothing you could call "proof".

That is not important for me...

YOU AND ME KNOW THE TRUTH.... but only one can speak the truth.

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

sorry but "that meeting at Sony to decide what to do next" is quite unbelievable for me. (No offense to Smooth and his source).

We have heard before the album announcement from several sources that (RF, Ele74 and even Smooth) that there was issues that withheld and delayed the album release. RF even went ahead and said that it was about the vocals. After reading the estate statement we learned that indeed that was the issue that the family's concerns and the authenticity issues were the reasons for the delays. (Remember the plans was for a thanksgiving release not Mid December)

Sony / Estate went into this knowing that there were concerns and there would be controversy. The minute they announced the album release date (a few weeks before releasing breaking news), they had most probably decided to include the songs no matter what and the album was going out to be manufacturing. It wasn't a surprise for them that they needed to sit down and evaluate.

 

[Kapital77]

I hope it is only a coincidence.

I hope so...

but i don´t think so.

They are risking their job and Sony looks what they tell in the Mj forum.

They give them demos to leak on forums, info, snipped, etc...

 

[Kapital77]

Sony / Estate went into this knowing that there were concerns and there would be controversy. The minute they announced the album release date, they had most probably decided to include the songs no matter what and the album were going out to be manufacturing. It wasn't a surprise for them that they needed to sit down and evaluate.

I think that the decision was made in the last days.

In the last days they choosed how many Cascio´s track there would be included after streaming BREAKING NEWS to know what fans thinks about the song.

Also they have to pay a audio forensic to validate the tracks in front of the family.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

sorry but "that meeting at Sony to decide what to do next" is quite unbelievable for me. (No offense to Smooth and his source).

On what grounds is it unbelievable?

The non-believers are asked to bring some objective proof. When I use the sources from a believer, it is all of sudden unbelievable because it is contradicting believers' belief.

So why would the official statement be more believable than unofficial, knowing that both come straight from SONY?

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

This has happened to more fans than Smooth.

There are very few people that listened to Breaking News on first listen and didn't doubt it, from what I can remember. Now time has passed, and fans that are holding onto their undying belief have accepted the songs, forgetting what their own ears told them in the first place.

You've all probably noticed how the polls have slowly swayed in favour of the vocals being real, as opposed to initially being in favour of the vocals being fake (overwhelmingly so, I might add).

You do realize that Smooth's comments and other comments from members regarding the vocals were in response to the initial stream, right? The initial stream which Sony and The Estate admitted, according to TMZ, was the wrong mix. They later corrected the issue by streaming the final version, which sounded more like Michael, maybe that's what changed people's opinion, including mine.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

STFU guys, go and enjoy FULL SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM! Vocals = out of this world.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

STFU guys, go and enjoy FULL SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM! Vocals = out of this world.

you don't have an untagged version yet do you???

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

You do realize that Smooth's comments and other comments from members regarding the vocals were in response to the initial stream, right? The initial stream which Sony and The Estate admitted, according to TMZ, was the wrong mix. They later corrected the issue by streaming the final version, which sounded more like Michael, maybe that's what changed people's opinion, including mine.

You do realize that no matter what Smooth said or did not say, people outside this forum who are not aware what SONY said or not, or what the Jacksons said or not, do not recognize Michael's voice at all. Those who do recognize some bits are still doubting. Furthermore, some of us even like the Cascio songs, but still are doubting that it is Michael singing. And I hope that you do realize that all the three songs are questioned. If you do not recognize the voice on one of the songs it could indeed happen, but on three out of three songs! Isn't it odd?

 

[ivy]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

On what grounds is it unbelievable?

So why would the official statement be more believable than unofficial, knowing that both come straight from SONY?

I explained why I found it unbelievable in the rest of my previous post.

they already knew about the controversy - concerns, it wasn't a new issue to call a meeting on.

Plus album announcement came Nov 6, in some of the world the Cd was released December 10. that's one month window - it's just enough time for CD pressing of over 3 million copies (that's what they shipped), booklet printing and distribution (around the world).

Plus Taryll just before Breaking news was released said that there were few questionable songs on the album - hence they knew Cascio songs made the album. From his statement it doesn't seem like Sony was still debating about the Cascio songs, they had already included in the album.

so to me personally "the meeting at Sony" is unbelievable.

-----

Sorry like I said no disrespect to smooth and his source but unless I see a name and credentials I can't be sure that it's indeed from Sony. With a source confirmation I'm open to treat it as an unofficial yet credible information until then color me skeptical.

and like you said without any official confirmation how can you generalize what a person said from Sony Canada to be the overall point of view Sony corporation.

 

[Pentum]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

you don't have an untagged version yet do you???

No, no one has made one yet, sorry.

Sorry for off topic, I was just too excited! unk:

 

[Kapital77]

There is no mayor proof that the Cascio vocals are not from MJ, than hearing the Slave to the rythm leak.

Those are the real MJ vocals, not the ones from the Cascio´s tracks.

You can hear clappings etc....

 

[love is magical]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

You do realize that Smooth's comments and other comments from members regarding the vocals were in response to the initial stream, right? The initial stream which Sony and The Estate admitted, according to TMZ, was the wrong mix. They later corrected the issue by streaming the final version, which sounded more like Michael, maybe that's what changed people's opinion, including mine.

First, I still find it odd that a major international record, such as Sony, would make such a blatant mistake by streaming the wrong mix. Keep in mind, Breaking News was the first Michael Jackson song, official or unofficial, released in nine years. I would imagine Sony handle the matter with diligence and care. Furthermore, this wrong mix excuse was claimed by Teddy Riley. Did Sony formally acknowledge that they streamed the wrong mix?

Second, the version on the CD sounds better. But, it doesn't sound mostly Michael to me.

Third, is it right that we even need to debate whether the songs sound like Michael? For crying out loud, I bought a Michael Jackson album. I realize this is a posthumous release. I realize there is a need for background and support vocals. But still, in order to justify the songs are Michael Jackson, shouldn't the lead vocals be mostly Michael?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

you don't have an untagged version yet do you???

Exactly, does someone have the untagged version? That DJ Stolen is super annoying... :doh:

 

[dupsy]

You are welcome.

A new proof that Mj did not wrote and sung those Cascio´s songs.

I dont think he wrote or sang them as well,saw this on RF's site

Here are the likely titles of the Cascio songs for the album called “Michael,” which will be released on December 14th: “Breaking News,” “Monster,” “Water,” “Keep Your Head Up,” and “All I Need.” There were 10 original Cascio songs Michael sang on. The finished ones chosen, aside from “Breaking News,” are still pending.

I know these songs. I heard them in a pre-Michael version in 2006. They were recorded with his vocals in 2007. Recently, producers have polished them up. They are said to be “amazing.”

http://www.showbiz411.com/2010/11/05/michael-jackson-new-album-five-new-song-titles

The best material available really comes from those sessions with Eddie Cascio in New Jersey circa summer 2007. Some of the songs were already written by Eddie’s brother Frank Cascio and recorded as demos with a local singer named Bobby Ewing. Michael put his vocals on them during that time he stayed with the Cascios in New Jersey.

I doubt he had anything to do with those tracks ,The songs are not worth the trauma they've caused.

--------------------------------------------------
n.b; bobby ewing aka james porte.

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

First, I still find it odd that a major international record, such as Sony, would make such a blatant mistake by streaming the wrong mix. Keep in mind, Breaking News was the first Michael Jackson song, official or unofficial, released in nine years. I would imagine Sony handle the matter with diligence and care.

It kind of answers the question "would Sony really be stupid enough to risk using an impersonator on the album?"

Um...yes.

 

[Alec]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM - MJ'S COMEBACK SINGLE. THEY HAD IT RIGHT THERE. MJ AT HIS BEST, ONE OF HIS FINEST VOCAL DELIVERIES.

**** you Branca, **** you Sony, **** you Cascio.

THANK YOU MICHAEL

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM - MJ'S COMEBACK SINGLE. THEY HAD IT RIGHT THERE. MJ AT HIS BEST, ONE OF HIS FINEST VOCAL DELIVERIES.

**** you Branca, **** you Sony, **** you Cascio.

THANK YOU MICHAEL

 

[love is magical]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

I know. I know. I know. Out of all the unreleased materials. They chose to release Breaking News????? :doh: Why not STTR?

When, seriously when, can we finally hear all the genuine outtakes from theh BAD, Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible sessions?

Can't they forget about modernizing songs and release the outtakes the way they are?

Don't they see the best songs on MICHAEL, BOJ, BTM and MTS, are songs with lesser degree of productions by others?

 

[MJFan07]

Re: Audio Proof that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

In a perfect world - in which MJ was alive and finishing his albums - I'll agree with you completely. However in the actual world that we are in, I tend to think this is unfortunately the reality of a posthumous releases - unfinished songs need to be finished somehow someway.

For example don't get me wrong I love love love the song "Hollywood Tonight" but the spoken part is way too long IMO. You think why and it's probably no second verse was recorded and they had to fill the gap. so in the end you get songs with spoken parts, duets, additional vocals, adlibs cut and pasted from other songs. Again yes this wouldn't happen in a perfect world but unfortunately we are living in a sad reality.

There's a big difference between adding a spoken part and crediting it to the actual speaker and including lead vocals that are questionable. I agree that songs need to be completed but there are ways of doing this that don't make half the fan base think they're listening to a fake. This is a Michael Jackson album. There should be no doubt regarding the lead vocals. Period.

If they have to alter the vocals in such a way that many are convinced they aren't listening to Michael then to me they aren't doing their job well. Teddy and whoever else worked on this CD were hired to work on a Michael Jackson CD. Their first priority should have been to preserve his voice, not speed it up to match their production of the song. To me, honestly, it doesn't matter if they hired an imposter or if they altered his vocals. Altered vocals are altered vocals, whether they were altered by some piece of technology or sung by an imposter. Either way, to me it's not Michael.

 

[souldreamer7]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Edit...
:wub:

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM - MJ'S COMEBACK SINGLE. THEY HAD IT RIGHT THERE. MJ AT HIS BEST, ONE OF HIS FINEST VOCAL DELIVERIES.

**** you Branca, **** you Sony, **** you Cascio.

THANK YOU MICHAEL

 

[Arklove]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

i couldn't agree more i blast this in my car daily. even with dj stolen it's one of my favorite tracks to come out in years

This song kicks some serious ass

 

[Dark Artist]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

Slave to the Rhythm - now THAT'S what Michael Jackson sounds like. If this song doesn't slap you in the face and make you realise how disastrously fake the Cascio songs are, I don't know what will...

(My opinion of course)

 

[fzsky]

Re: Audio Experiment that MONSTER is sung by Michael Jackson

If this song doesn't slap you in the face and make you realise how disastrously fake the Cascio songs are, I don't know what will...

Gansta, DYKWYCA, Xcape. I dare not say Casio tracks are definitely fake, but I dare say the tracks I mentioned are definitely Michael.
Now, shall we keep this in a debate thread?